MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31107 posts, RR: 74 Posted (5 years 2 months 20 hours ago) and read 10437 times:
Looks like Delta's planned daily service to Paris Orly is not happening. The flight is showing zero availability in Amadeus.
This is the fourth trans-Atlantic route that Delta won't start this summer as planned, joining Atlanta-Edinburgh, JFK-Lagos (delayed until December), and JFK-Dakar-Nairobi (delayed until December due to economic conditions in Kenya).
AznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3541 posts, RR: 5 Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 20 hours ago) and read 10403 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter): Looks like Delta's planned daily service to Paris Orly is not happening. The flight is showing zero availability in Amadeus.
Was this flight previously bookable?
The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
Icna05e From France, joined Feb 2006, 289 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 20 hours ago) and read 10327 times:
Weird, it looked like a good move for DL. A direct link to JFK for all the southern Paris suburbs could very well be successful, especially with AF's backing. But how happy are they (AF)? I would say if the rumor turns out to be more than a rumor, the route was killed by AF.
Quoting Lear777 (Reply 2): Any word on the status of JFK-LYS?
I hope it is not on jeopardy. But there sure seems to be a bad series for new TATL flights!
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31107 posts, RR: 74 Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 20 hours ago) and read 10236 times:
Quoting CALMSP (Reply 6): what about GEO?? Does anyone still anticipate DL flying this route from JFK??
I think so. Very high-fare market, relatively short length. Fares on JFK-GEO during the summer can be upwards of $800 easily. Even FLL-GEO can command fares that high during peak travel.
Orion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 20 hours ago) and read 10175 times:
I thought DL was desperate to get more JFK long hauls going? like really desperate to do a CO, yet they keep postponing and or cancelling. very dissappointed with their delay to the African network. I am begining to wonder whether it will ever happen or if DL will always find a reason, political instability etc to not make Lagos or Nairobi.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31107 posts, RR: 74 Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 20 hours ago) and read 10116 times:
Quoting Orion737 (Reply 9): I am begining to wonder whether it will ever happen or if DL will always find a reason, political instability etc to not make Lagos or Nairobi.
Don't forget, though, Delta already flies to Lagos, from Atlanta. Maybe doubling the capacity, when they will soon have a monopoly on USA-Nigeria, wasn't the smartest thing to do right now.
NYCAAer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 660 posts, RR: 4 Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 17 hours ago) and read 9747 times:
Interesting move. I would think DL would do well out of ORY. I remember when we served ORY at at AA and when we were forced to switch to CDG by the French authorities, some people were disappointed. They liked the shorter drive time to Paris and the convenience of the airport itself.
I guess JFK-ORY will be left to BA's Open Skies and EWR-ORY to L'Avion.
Skyteam10001 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 193 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 9 hours ago) and read 9088 times:
I feel the JFK-ORY DL flight was an answer to the possible threat of BA flying JFK-ORY.
Now that BA has announced they will fly from CDG to JFK, I am guessing AF & DL don't feel they need to add this flightanymore. Also maybe the advance bookings were not that good.
Haggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 8 hours ago) and read 9037 times:
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4): CDGSLC shouldn't be far behind depending on whether or not the cost of pride is greater than the cost of fuel these days
not so sure about that.... this route is going to be highly subsidized for the first two years, IIRC....
This was one of my predictions in Delta: 'Comprehensive' Changes Ahead (by Flynavy Mar 15 2008 in Civil Aviation). I figured the international push would slow a bit. I also don't think this is the end of it. some of these routes that are doing "so-so" to not so stellar may be held off temporarily.
CAM2:"Lightning coming out of that one." CAM1: "What?"
Pellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1845 posts, RR: 8 Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 4 hours ago) and read 7888 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
Don't forget, though, Delta already flies to Lagos, from Atlanta. Maybe doubling the capacity, when they will soon have a monopoly on USA-Nigeria, wasn't the smartest thing to do right now.
It would be idiotic not to start the JFK-LOS route in a timely manner, with NAA leaving, and simply cede that market to the European airlines. No one but the most price sensitive wants to backtrack from the Northeast US to Atlanta. They can name their price.
WorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 4 hours ago) and read 7837 times:
Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 13): not so sure about that.... this route is going to be highly subsidized for the first two years, IIRC....
no subsidies but all DL and AF flights between North America and France, including JFK-ORY will/would have been joint venture flights which means DL and AF share profits and losses. DL's decision to pull JFK-ORY is not its own but had to have been made with AF.
Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 18): No one but the most price sensitive wants to backtrack from the Northeast US to Atlanta
connecting in ATL from anywhere in the US is still far faster than connecting in Europe.
The overarching theme in DL's international pullback of expansion is that there is a much greater desire to allow the last series of flights to ramp up before adding another round of expansion. While some new routes were going to launch just 6 months after other routes to the same country, the routes that will remain are ones that are either new to DL or the most recently added route has been around for more than a year. ie. JFK-LOS is now increasing in frequency; JFK-DKR-CPT is being added after ATL-DKR-JNB is well established; JFK-TLV is being added after ATL-TLV is well established.... but ATL-EDI or JFK-LOS is not being launched at the same time another route from the opposite gateways (JFK-EDI or ATL-LOS) is still ramping up. DL's international strategy is clearly to minimize risk and eliminate direct internal gateway competition (including other DL and AF NYC-PAR flights) rather than pull back from new markets other than to places like NBO where the market is just not there right now.
Mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9160 posts, RR: 14 Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 3 hours ago) and read 7476 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter): Looks like Delta's planned daily service to Paris Orly is not happening. The flight is showing zero availability in Amadeus.
This is the fourth trans-Atlantic route that Delta won't start this summer as planned, joining Atlanta-Edinburgh, JFK-Lagos (delayed until December), and JFK-Dakar-Nairobi (delayed until December due to economic conditions in Kenya).
I just checked on our employee/retiree travelnet (which is connected to Deltamatic) and the flight shows still operating in June on Mon/Tue/Wed/Th/Sat. It shows overbooked by at least 50, everyday so maybe that's why Amadeus doesn't show any availability.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6507 posts, RR: 11 Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 2 hours ago) and read 7270 times:
Quoting Mayor (Reply 21): I just checked on our employee/retiree travelnet (which is connected to Deltamatic) and the flight shows still operating in June on Mon/Tue/Wed/Th/Sat. It shows overbooked by at least 50, everyday so maybe that's why Amadeus doesn't show any availability.
Had my brother pull it up on DeltaNet also and he's saying the same thing...
CAM2:"Lightning coming out of that one." CAM1: "What?"
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15721 posts, RR: 48 Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 2 hours ago) and read 7237 times:
Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 13): not so sure about that.... this route is going to be highly subsidized for the first two years, IIRC....
That's the only thing that'll keep it going.
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 19): The overarching theme in DL's international pullback of expansion is that there is a much greater desire to allow the last series of flights to ramp up before adding another round of expansion
The overarching theme is that DL has thrown every international-capable aircraft it has at the wall hoping it would stick, and naturally a good percentage of those don't make money. The low hanging fruit are long gone and their next-best adds are really risky, nevermind oil at $110/barrel.
Mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9160 posts, RR: 14 Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 1 hour ago) and read 6989 times:
What worries me about the SLC-CDG flight is whether, midsummer, they may have to limit seats because of heavy fuel loads, altitude and high heat, depending on what time of the day the flight leaves. I see it leaves at 1700 hrs.....the temps can still be quite high at that time.
DL might do okay on that flight if they can make a deal with the LDS church to fly their missionaries to Europe.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
ORDagent From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 823 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months ago) and read 6483 times:
I think SLC-CDG will at least break even. There are so many connection possibilities on both sides of the flight. The whole of the southwest U.S. is part of the SLC catchment area and then AF offers a huge connection network. Of course if the dollar keeps on sinking people will avoid leaving the country as it is getting progressively more expensive. I have seen my level of international bookings start shrinking.
25 Mayor: Well, it USED to be! I've been out of the loop long enough that the name may have been changed.
26 Gokmengs: So which one is it guys? Whats the final word on this?
27 Icna05e: Hmmm you are right it makes no sense. Thanks for pointing that up to me. I thought AF would not be happy to not have those passengers through CDG but
28 MAH4546: That is what it typically is. They'll purposely overbook a flight to show no availability.
29 MSYtristar: SLC-CDG is, tentatively, scheduled to operate four days a week (X246) starting October 6th. I'm not sure if this is a new change or not.
30 Mayor: I just pulled it up on Delta.com using July 28th and it shows seats available.
31 MSYtristar: DL54 JFK-ORY is showing operating X23 from 02Jun - 28Jun, and then daily eff. 30Jun.....perhaps the schedule for this flight, if it's getting the axe,
32 MAH4546: The schedules won't be updated until 3AM Saturday. Flight is still zero'd out on Amadeus/GDS, which is typically first to update. I guess we'll know
33 Mayor: If you go into Delta.com and look for availability, JFK-ORY doesn't show but if you just check the flight schedules on the same website, it does. Here
34 MSYtristar: Yep, that's correct. I just did a schedule search, not availability. Schedules are already uploaded in Gabriel. DL 054 /JL DL IL WE02JUL JFKORY 2235
35 Haggis79: WT, I was talking about SLC-CDG, not JFK-ORY well, if you look at the number of bookings right now, they actually don't need to worry about limiting
36 Panamair: They are 'fictitious' bookings to zero out the flights so that they are no longer bookable, which essentially means the flight is gone. Schedules wil
37 WorldTraveler: actually, no. DL has only deployed about half of the 757(ERs) and still has 8 or more 764s available to convert. further, the fast majority are indee
38 Evan767: Could these overbookings be the people who bought seats? Now that Delta can't accomodate 5 pax in Business and 20 in Coach, the flight is, technicall
39 Mayor: The indications I get from the Delta people is that the route, has indeed, been cut. Not sure if it's permanent or temporary.
40 MaverickM11: Of course they still have 757s to deploy, they're not flying ATLEDI, JFKORY, and probably a couple more routes soon. Most of those unconverted 764s a
41 WorldTraveler: I'm not sure that is entirely accurate. You are missing the point that DL is largely cutting routes that duplicate an existing route from another hub
42 Mariner: Gosh, that may be true. But in this instance, I am very happy to see big Delta following the lead of tiny Frontier. mariner
43 MaverickM11: You can spin it any way you want to, but at the end of the day, their next add ie ATLEDI/JFKORY/JFK-anywhere in Central America, is not as good as th
44 LawnDart: Really? I would've thought airline network analysts would go for the crappy routes first before adding the really really lucrative ones... Listen, so
45 WorldTraveler: suppose DL's next route is ATL-HKG, a route realistic only with a 777LR. I'd say that is a high quality route that was waiting for the right aircraft
46 MaverickM11: That's why I said "all things equal". DL's next 757 or 767 add is not going to be as good as its last 757/767 add, however a new aircraft in the flee
47 Icna05e: The route to ORY has been postponed until "summer 2009". The JFK-LYS route has been postponed also, but by 6 weeks or so to July 18th. SLC-CDG is main
48 Panamair: The inaugural eastbound JFK-LYS is now scheduled for July 17 (inaugural from LYS as you mentioned, is on July 18). This one was originally supposed t
49 MaverickM11: It's also now 5 weekly instead of daily
50 Flyingcat: Res agents have been told that ORY is indefinitely postponed due to problems with necessary approvals. A new start date has not been announced.
51 ConcordeBoy: That statement makes no sense. ...IIRC, when they originally received their ATI, DL/AF were prohibited from revenue-sharing on ATL/CVG-CDG, even duri
52 CuriousFlyer: I have a booking I made for this flight 2 months ago on ORY JFK. It still shows up on the website. However I see that this flight shows zero availabii
53 Icna05e: Indeed that's also disapointing. I would have guessed it would be more of a business oriented market, but they are cutting 2 of the weekdays flights,
54 Panamair: Actually, more the opposite. The last time DL/AF tried JFK-LYS with a DL 763, the Economy cabin was never the problem - the front was. I don't think
55 FlySSC: It is now rumored that AF could open ORY-JFK with its own aircraft (A332), at least for the summer season... Wait and see it is confirmed.
56 Icna05e: Ah ok it makes sense this way. But I don't think AF was partnering with DL for the previous try (what, 2001?). Where they already in a code-share rel
57 Panamair: Yes, AF did codeshare with DL on the previous JFK-LYS try. AF and DL signed a strategic partnership agreement back in the summer of 1999; SkyTeam was
58 WorldTraveler: I don't believe the DOT has any hub to hub requirements between any US airlines other than between BA and AA at London; AA/BA possibly could have the
59 ConcordeBoy: Well, as stated, AF/AZ/DL were indeed prohibited from revenue sharing between the aforementioned hubs... my question was more along the lines of if t
60 WorldTraveler: yes it was true. I don't know the exact date when the restriction was removed but the DOJ has realized that even in markets where there is no nonstop
62 Icna05e: Ah ok. Good I did not bet too much! Thanks for enlighting me. Well, I might be (again!) completely wrong but isn't the joint-venture between DL and A
63 Delta4eva: I believe there was a clause in the ATI that stated if the EU and US signed an open skies agreement, then AF and DL will be able to share revenue fro
64 WorldTraveler: since DL and AF have a profit sharing agreement (joint venture), they clearly have the full ability to share everything involved in operating an airl
65 ConcordeBoy: Again, you're giving me supposition, not fact. DL and AF have had the authority and capability to revenue share on almost any route they chose for ne
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