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Another DL Vs. US Feud?  
User currently offlineBreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 1 month ago) and read 4766 times:

Delta is now offering, for a 30 day period, triple Skymiles for F travel in/out of PHX, PHL, and CLT, and double miles for Y travel. The offer focuses exclusively on those airports - all of course, US strongholds. Source: delta.com/newsroom

Did US launch another hostile bid for my beloved Atlanta carrier? biting 

Just curious to know who might have started this obvious attack - DL or US?


Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineVctony From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month ago) and read 4714 times:

It's too bad I booked my upcoming flight to LGA on Delta out of TUS instead of PHX.

User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9108 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4594 times:

How about DL launch PHL-PIT/CLT/ORD/PHX with a mix of 738s and 757s. That's what I'd call a hostile act of revenge!!  Wink spin  stirthepot 


Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineJlbmedia From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 621 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4544 times:
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Quoting Breaker1011 (Thread starter):
Did US launch another hostile bid for my beloved Atlanta carrier?



If they did, it would be for a lot less money than last time. Dose anyone have a ballpark idea of just how much the stockholders lost by sticking with Delta, instead of taking the USAirways offer?



JLB54061
User currently offlineEtops1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1038 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4524 times:

i don't know but i wouldn't put it past parker to go at it again. and say " i told you so"

User currently offlineHaggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4487 times:



Quoting Jlbmedia (Reply 3):
Dose anyone have a ballpark idea of just how much the stockholders lost by sticking with Delta, instead of taking the USAirways offer?

well no one knows if they would be better off now had they gone with the offer.... remember, most of the offer was stock, not cash.... and US' shares have dropped as much (if not more) als DL's have...



300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
User currently offlineBreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4459 times:

I was only joking about another hostile bid folks -


Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlineAsuflyer05 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2371 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4444 times:

Say no to another merger.



User currently offlineBP1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 593 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4430 times:

This sounds very vindictive of DL. But taking it one step ahead, why has US not started a daily non-stop to CVG for PHX? Of all the markets from Phoenix, there are not too many that have NO competition, the first few cities that come to mind are

PHX-LHR (BA) - ok that is another thread all together
PHX-CVG (DL) - Still scratch my head over this.
PHX-KOA (US)
PHX-OGG (US) ATA is pulling out of this market, if they have not already
PHX-LIH (US)
PHX-DSM (US)

Yes, there are some more. But when looking at competition, for years DL has not had any competition on the PHX-CVG route. Personally, already having so many miles built up on US and being Gold with US, why would I want to start all over again with DL and unless I go to CVG all the time, which I don't and I hate making connections, why would anyone in the PHX market want to fly DL and start all over in earning their status.

Also, if going to Europe or the Middle East from PHX, I would much rather make a nice connection at T5 at LHR instead of connecting at JFK on DL. Ever seen the take off line at JFK between 1700 and 2100 hours? You are number 39 for take off.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,
BP1



"First To Fly The A-380" / 26 October 2007 SYD-SIN Inaugural
User currently offlineBreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4382 times:



Quoting BP1 (Reply 8):
Also, if going to Europe or the Middle East from PHX, I would much rather make a nice connection at T5 at LHR instead of connecting at JFK on DL. Ever seen the take off line at JFK between 1700 and 2100 hours? You are number 39 for take off.

Wow - have you ever actually made a connection at LHR? Nice isn't the word I'd use to describe it. I'll sit on my Deltabird at JFK for the delay, or preferably CVG or ATL, anytime and get right to my destination the next morning rather than mess with LHR even at T5 (which by the way, I don't think US will be using T5?).

Quoting BP1 (Reply 8):
Personally, already having so many miles built up on US and being Gold with US, why would I want to start all over again with DL and unless I go to CVG all the time, which I don't and I hate making connections, why would anyone in the PHX market want to fly DL and start all over in earning their status.

You might not. But for others, there are three reasons as I see it. As a Phoenician myself, I fly Delta and Southwest exclusively and avoid US like the plague. Not everyone in PHX is fond of US. In fact, there's quite a large based of loyal FFer's with status on AA, DL, UA, NW, and CO that live in PHX despite having to connect at a hub to get anywhere. I'm one of them. Secondly, not everyone is trying to earn status - many will give DL a shot that otherwise might not just to get the extra miles for a ticket and could care less about elite status. And finally, this is just as much about PHX as a destination as it is an origin, so DL stands to grab that traveler to PHX, PHL, and CLT from areas back east in which DL is quite a bit more competitive with US than it is here in PHX.



Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlinePhxtodcatomsp From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4381 times:



Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 5):
well no one knows if they would be better off now had they gone with the offer.... remember, most of the offer was stock, not cash.... and US' shares have dropped as much (if not more) als DL's have...

It was half stock and half cash. The half cash was worth more than DL is currently. Pretty significantly actually. We're talking $3 billion market cap for DL right now and the cash would have been over $5 billion. The stock portion would be worth WAY less now...but still worth something.


User currently offlineBreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4351 times:



Quoting Phxtodcatomsp (Reply 10):
It was half stock and half cash. The half cash was worth more than DL is currently. Pretty significantly actually. We're talking $3 billion market cap for DL right now and the cash would have been over $5 billion. The stock portion would be worth WAY less now...but still worth something.

I might be wrong on this and someone can correct me I'm sure - but the cash would have come at the emergence of BK for the combined entity - and who knows whether or not a US/DL combination would have emerged by even this point in time. The crazy integration woes would have put the resultant airline in quite a pickle right about now if you ask me. Clearly Parker's intent was an extended stay in BK court to rid the new entity of more contracts, aircraft, and debt.

PS - DL's real market cap is closer to $4.5B right now given the reserve shares it's still holding from the market, and that's depressed at the moment amid a really bad week on the street. Someone explained it well in one of the NW merger threads. Depends on which service you get a quote from as to whether or not they reflect all shares or just what's held outside of Delta. For many months now, Delta has been second only to Southwest in market capitalization in the US airline industry. LCC is trading at a robust $8 today down from $65 during the hostile bid.



Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlineBP1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 593 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4341 times:

Breaker,

Is sounds like you are very DL friendly. With all those DL pictures on your profile, I understand your position. Yes, there are people that make connections out of PHX getting to BOS or IAD but if you have not flown US lately, then how can you add perspective to US. I flew DL a few weeks ago to Paris via JFK as my client was paying for it and they long line at JFK was awful.

Anyway. As you are a pilot.

Fly Safe,
BP1



"First To Fly The A-380" / 26 October 2007 SYD-SIN Inaugural
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24636 posts, RR: 86
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4313 times:
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Quoting Breaker1011 (Reply 11):
LCC is trading at a robust $8 today down from $65 during the hostile bid.

Fair go.

Delta was in Chapter 11, so what was their share price worth and what had it dropped from? Nor did Delta make it, or barely, to the share price predicted by Mr. Grinstein when they did emerge from Chapter 11.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7320 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4304 times:



Quoting Breaker1011 (Reply 9):
You might not. But for others, there are three reasons as I see it. As a Phoenician myself, I fly Delta and Southwest exclusively and avoid US like the plague. Not everyone in PHX is fond of US. In fact, there's quite a large based of loyal FFer's with status on AA, DL, UA, NW, and CO that live in PHX despite having to connect at a hub to get anywhere. I'm one of them. Secondly, not everyone is trying to earn status - many will give DL a shot that otherwise might not just to get the extra miles for a ticket and could care less about elite status. And finally, this is just as much about PHX as a destination as it is an origin, so DL stands to grab that traveler to PHX, PHL, and CLT from areas back east in which DL is quite a bit more competitive with US than it is here in PHX.

You know, its to each their own. You might hate US and thats cool, but alot of people like them. I like AA the best. Alot of people hate them and thats cool. One of the reasons that I fly AA everywhere is because they fly where I need to go without connection. Thats something DL and US both cant give me. But then again thats not something that matters to everyone.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineBreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4249 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 13):
Delta was in Chapter 11, so what was their share price worth and what had it dropped from? Nor did Delta make it, or barely, to the share price predicted by Mr. Grinstein when they did emerge from Chapter 11.

DAL was offered at about $19 on the initial release and sits a bit more than half that now, not unlike other airline issues. DL shares have not done quite as poorly as UAL, AMR over the past 12 months. US is the exception to the worse side with a freefall over the past 12 months to 1/6th it's mid-bid value.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 14):
I like AA the best. Alot of people hate them and thats cool.

AA rocks and is usually on my list as well. Worked there in college! Former platinum, and indeed missing them a bit these days - just can't do too much on them right now from PHX especially when I need to go west or northwest.

Quoting BP1 (Reply 12):
Yes, there are people that make connections out of PHX getting to BOS or IAD but if you have not flown US lately, then how can you add perspective to US. I flew DL a few weeks ago to Paris via JFK as my client was paying for it and they long line at JFK was awful.

When I moved here a couple of years ago, right at the time of the HP integration, I actually brought status on US with me from back east (although how I ended up flying them enough to keep it I still can't figure out). But they were messing me up back home for a long time, and started messing me up out here too - several lost bags, bumps, and frankly some downright hostile service on two occasions in particular. So, I went back to DL - and on one flight early in that return in particular, DL did something for me that simply won me over again. At the same time, actually gave WN a shot for the first time in my life, and I've sort of fallen in love with them no pun intended! Consistent, friendly, on time, and they just tend to do what I need for a great price on short haul trips back and forth to CA, OR, and WA. For longer trips though, need that first class seat on DL, AA, and sometimes NW.

Nonetheless, you are of course correct, it's all personal preference. Perhaps I'll give them a try again someday, but it's hard to go back as like you mention - once you are happy on someone else (DL) and have status, why bother?

U a pilot too?

[Edited 2008-03-20 22:20:04]


Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24636 posts, RR: 86
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4230 times:
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Quoting Breaker1011 (Reply 15):
I was offered at about $19 on the initial release and sits a bit more than half that now, not unlike other airline issues.

But Mr. Grinstein had promised about more:

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/...tent/apr2007/db20070430_116710.htm

"The company says 400 million shares will be issued, putting the target initial public offering at $23.50 a share to $30 a share based on Delta's projected valuation of $9.4 billion to $12 billion."

Basically, it has been a downhill slide since emerging.

Quoting Breaker1011 (Reply 15):
DL shares have not done quite as poorly as UAL, AMR over the past 12 months. US is the exception to the worse side with a freefall over the past 12 months to 1/6th it's mid-bid value.

If we are using share price as an indication of quality, the best airline in the US is Allegiant. Ticker symbol - ALGT.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineBreaker1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 938 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4203 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 16):
If we are using share price as an indication of quality, the best airline in the US is Allegiant. Ticker symbol - ALGT.

Interesting little carrier that they are here in my backyard, but a 52 week high at $38.47 and low at $19.90, trading today at $23, is relatively similar to the performance of traditional carriers, as mentioned.

PS - I think you've read me wrong here - nowhere here have I said DAL is performing at the level Grinstien promised or even came close. I'm just talking about DAL issues relative to peer issues. FYI, the IPO once issued was closer to $19 per share.

In the end, despite the fun twists sofar, I'm still looking for thoughts to my original question -

Why this particular attack aimed squarely at US at this moment in time? Did US throw the first punch elsewhere, or is DL throwing it with this promotion?



Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24636 posts, RR: 86
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4180 times:
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Quoting Breaker1011 (Reply 17):
Interesting little carrier that they are here in my backyard, but a 52 week high at $38.47 and low at $19.90, trading today at $23, is relatively similar to the performance of traditional carriers, as mentioned.

I'm seeing today's ALGT share price at $24.25.  confused 

But again, it is higher than any other carrier, higher even than United.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4078 times:



Quoting Breaker1011 (Reply 17):
In the end, despite the fun twists sofar, I'm still looking for thoughts to my original question -

Why this particular attack aimed squarely at US at this moment in time? Did US throw the first punch elsewhere, or is DL throwing it with this promotion?

 checkmark  Yes, let's get back on topic. Did US take a jab at DL in ATL or something first?



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineDL Widget Head From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2071 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4060 times:



Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 19):
Did US take a jab at DL in ATL or something first?

It sure sounds like it. I'll bet US provoked DL in some way. I wouldn't put it past Parker. He's still so bitter that he didn't get DL that he can't resist sticking his finger in DL's eye whenever he can. I hope he's prepared for the consequences of antagonizing DL.


User currently offlineBP1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 593 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4046 times:

If I am not mistaken, last I heard, DL is pulling out of markets and cutting back frequencies on some routes.

Fly Safe,
BP1



"First To Fly The A-380" / 26 October 2007 SYD-SIN Inaugural
User currently offlineDL Widget Head From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2071 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4043 times:



Quoting BP1 (Reply 21):
If I am not mistaken, last I heard, DL is pulling out of markets and cutting back frequencies on some routes.

Last I heard US was doing the same thing. What's your point?  Confused


User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22303 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3868 times:

I'm scratching my head over this one with respect to CLT. DL does fine at CLT; it's the second-largest carrier (albeit a distant second) and sees pretty good loads and yields, so I'm wondering what they hope to accomplish. There's not much room for them to expand, nor can I really think of any routes they'd want to start there.


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3860 times:



Quoting BP1 (Reply 21):
If I am not mistaken, last I heard, DL is pulling out of markets and cutting back frequencies on some routes.

Fly Safe,
BP1

What does that have to do with the thread?



What gets measured gets done.
25 EXAAUADL : more likely just a tit for tat type thing
26 Bobnwa : Why would anyone love or hate an airline? i am with NW but I don't love them nor do I hate them. This goes true for every airline. I don't like Gener
27 727LOVER : In what way?
28 Jlbmedia : OK I'm confused. We have an apparent fact that DL has taken this shot at the US hubs, and no indication so far that US has done anything to DL, Yet m
29 727LOVER : You're missing the fact that they are biased WIDGET lovers.
30 Post contains images LAXdude1023 : Youre missing the fact that DL is perfect and never does anything wrong. Therefore US MUST have started it. You really not missing anything. US didnt
31 Post contains images BA744PHX : well hopefully DL wont be around for much longer... hopefully someone can buy them out or they can liquidate
32 Mayor : And why would you hope something like that?
33 Post contains images BA744PHX : I use to be a DL cheerleader but they have screwed me way to many times soooo like many DL forums about US.. down with DL!!!!!!!
34 Breaker1011 : Well, I've looked high and low and can't find anything from US newswise, so I'm going to venture that DL has launched a volley here. Let's see how US
35 Whappeh : I am still in awe of the pointless animosity that people hold over this stuff. Its staggering.
36 Mayor : Okay, whatever floats your boat. I know that I wouldn't wish unemployment on all the DL people any more than I would the US people, except for Doug P
37 Etops1 : I use to be a DL cheerleader but they have screwed me way to many times soooo like many DL forums about US.. down with DL!!!!!!! hey i am not to fond
38 Jetdeltamsy : "in fact"..."in fact"... in fact what? where do you get your information from? how is it you have any idea the FQTV loyalty base in PHX? share your s
39 AirCop : The only company that could possibly get hurt with this promotion is Delta with the liability for the extra FF miles. No way are they going to put a
40 MrBrightSide : Stock price is not important as many people think. What you always have to pay attention is stock volume, average volume and market cap, value that d
41 FlyASAGuy2005 : That wasn't my quote. That was LAXdude1023. I guess the "new site enhancements" is at it again...
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