Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Horizon Air And Future Of CRJ 700  
User currently offlineCschleic From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1247 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5773 times:

Was chatting recently with someone from Horizon while waiting for a flight, and they mentioned there has been internal talk of eliminating the CRJ's and going to an all Q-400 fleet after the 200's are all gone. Anyone hear anything about this? A lot of carriers are eliminating the 50 seat CRJ's for economics, but the 70-seaters are supposed to be workable from a financial standpoint.

From a passenger perspective, the Q-400's are fast, and ok for shorter trips. But I can't imagine longer flights - say PDX - SAN, or SEA - SBA, etc. that the CRJ's now fly. The noise and vibration would be too much. True, they fly some thin routes now, but they'd be competing with Southwest and others in some larger markets.

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3268 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5760 times:

That makes no sense as the CRJ-700s fill a niche that the Q400 can't on longer-range flights. Nobody's going to want to sit on a Dash 8 for 800-1100 miles...oh but wait, they don't have that kind of range. I can see them devoting the Q400 on all routes under 700 miles.


.......
User currently offlinePacificWest From United States of America, joined May 2007, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5756 times:

I know what you mean.

I fly the MFR - LAX route often, the morning flight being the CRJ and the afternoon the Q400... even though I love the Q400, there is a noticeable difference in flight-time and cabin noise between the two a/c. I don't think I'd want to be on a Q400 for longer than 2 hours and know I could have taken a jet.


User currently offlinePacificWest From United States of America, joined May 2007, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5752 times:

Maybe they think they can replace longer CRJ routes with mainline AS flights and cut the frequency...?

User currently offlineBartonsayswhat From Canada, joined Oct 2007, 434 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5747 times:



Quoting PacificWest (Reply 2):

two hours on the q400 would be the limit for me as well, although it was very quite, much quieter than i thought it would be and i was sitting only 2 rows aft of the engine. the seats don't recline at all. do any of the seats recline on RJs?


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5801 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5705 times:

If the CR7s leave the fleet, AS is considering other options for the routes that a Q400 might not be the best aircraft to operate.

Alaska is also considering contracting with another airline with somewhat larger regional jets to fly some of its jet routes.
http://blogs.thenewstribune.com/busi...8/horizon_air_may_reduce_jet_fleet



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13555 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5547 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Cschleic (Thread starter):
Was chatting recently with someone from Horizon while waiting for a flight, and they mentioned there has been internal talk of eliminating the CRJ's and going to an all Q-400 fleet after the 200's are all gone. Anyone hear anything about this?

Horizon CEO Jeff Pinneo spoke of this during the year-end earnings call. It's not a given by any means, but there was mention of internal discussion about whether or not it made sense to continue operating a (relatively) small sub-fleet of CR7s when QX is betting their future on the Q400 - a plane with far better operating economics within the QX system, FWIW.

[Edited 2008-03-21 05:11:15]


"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5418 times:

Would CRJ-900s in a two class configuration(like NW and DL) be more efficient?

User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5901 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5394 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Screw the CRJ-900, they should go for the ERJ-170...unless of course we are talking commonality. I would be surprised if QX ditched the 700's. But then again, I was surprised QX ditched the Do-328's and brought back the DH8's back in the 1990's.

So, once the Q200's are gone, is QX going to trim more destinations that typically wouldn't support a Q400 like Pendleton, OR or Yakima, WA?


User currently offlineWoodsboy From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1031 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5168 times:

Horizon has plenty of routes that are too long for a Dash 8. I often take Air Canada Jazz from Vancouver to Smithers BC which is 1h 47m and it is PAINFUL, even that is longer than I would ever want to be on a Dash 8. However...AC Jazz uses the -300 and I believe that they dont have the active noise cancelling that the Q400s have so it might be a moot point. How I long for the good old days of the F-28, that was a fun plane and even though it was ancient compared to a Dash 8, it was quieter, as long as you werent in the back!

User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13555 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5121 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 8):
So, once the Q200's are gone, is QX going to trim more destinations that typically wouldn't support a Q400 like Pendleton, OR or Yakima, WA?

Not likely. Even though the Q400 doubles the capacity of the Q200, the breakeven load factor for the Q400 (from what I understand) is only a few seats above that of the Q200.

In other words, for the same price, you just get more.  Smile



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineYtib From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 571 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5100 times:



Quoting PacificWest (Reply 2):
I don't think I'd want to be on a Q400 for longer than 2 hours and know I could have taken a jet.

About two hours is enough for me on a CRJ, the pain threshold varies for everyone. But 2 hours for a Q400 and CRJ/CR7 is my tolerance.


User currently offlineRsmith6621a From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 194 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4993 times:

....It's OK. to start mourning. The CRJ's and ERJ are the most inefficient aircraft to fly. If you have to fly them up the road 500 miles and then need a 100 mile ALT you probably will be booting off a few PAX, they are weight critical PIGS. If you are working at a regional that solely flys the above models I would advise you to find other employment they will be parked at Mojave and Tucson very soon...The cost per seat mile is minimal at best.

So far there has been only 2 models of RJs that have proved their worth......the E175/190.


The Q-400 is a fantastic piece of tin. like an earlier poster said perhaps AS will have to put a 73 on some of those longer runs.



Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
User currently offlineFlyboy80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1878 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4950 times:

The most recent information from QX management has certainly pointed to an all Q400 fleet. Everyone knows the 700s are on the way out, everyone could feel it coming since DEN closed. QX is Q400 crazy, especially as the dispatch reliability improves. A year from now I can see AS operating many of the harmonization routes currently operated under the CPA with QX. After that, I believe they will look to a third party airline to operate a 100 seater, however as pilot negotiations continue, and the economy shifts, I believe we are at more of a stand still. The company doesn't want to make very many changes, or invest in capital costs, when they are unaware of what their relative position will be tomorrow...we'll wait in see. As far now, we're looking forward to Vegas, Prince George, and Flagstaff!

User currently offlineThreeIfByAir From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 675 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4867 times:



Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 10):
Not likely. Even though the Q400 doubles the capacity of the Q200, the breakeven load factor for the Q400 (from what I understand) is only a few seats above that of the Q200.

And on top of that, the horrible winter has convinced more people to fly across the Cascades, rather than driving. Some stations could also use the extra capacity to sell more low-bucket fares. PUW, for one, could easily fill a DH4 whenever the Cougs have a big game or with students heading to/from vacation. EAT, YKM, PSC, and ALW, but especially the first 2, were bleeding lots of Seattle traffic to I-90. They always will, but lower fares will reduce it, and that is what this DH4 can provide.

Quoting Flyboy80 (Reply 13):
After that, I believe they will look to a third party airline to operate a 100 seater, however as pilot negotiations continue, and the economy shifts, I believe we are at more of a stand still.

Just sign on B6 and its 190s as a "AlaskaConnection" carrier.  Wink  duck 

Would be a shame to see AS contract out service - the seamless nature of AS/QX is quite phenomenal in the airline industry today. I guess AS pilots would demand 737 wages to fly a smaller plane and wouldn't let QX pilots fly them, even at an increased rate over the CR7. Apparently AS does not have a cost structure to support efficient 73G operation like WN, since those 73Gs are not too far north of 100 in an AS configuration (I think I might be answering my own point here).


User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2010 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4803 times:



Quoting Woodsboy (Reply 9):
How I long for the good old days of the F-28, that was a fun plane

Isn't that the truth!! I miss the F-28 so bad. It was so much more comfy than either the CR7 or the DH4. Those were the days!



Good goes around!
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5901 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4734 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 15):
It was so much more comfy than either the CR7 or the DH4. Those were the days!

Comfy? Those "bench" seats were hard as sitting in wooden benches at a high school ballpark! But I will agree, flying in those F-28's were more roomy inside (despite the tobacco-stained interior) and the seats were a bit wider.

But I still like flying in the new stuff.


User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2010 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4711 times:



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 16):
Comfy? Those "bench" seats were hard as sitting in wooden benches at a high school ballpark

I'm not sure I follow. What "Bench" seats?? I always found Horizon's seats on the F-28 to be incredibly comfortable for a regional aircraft. They had the brown leather seats from what I recall. I flew about 30 segments on them back in the late 90s and never had any complaints about comfort. Actually found them to be much more comfortable than Delta's MD-90s. Goes to show comfort is clearly a perception thing.



Good goes around!
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4699 times:



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 8):
Screw the CRJ-900, they should go for the ERJ-170

that isnt any better than the CR7, dontyou mean the EMB-190..that would be a good fit for AS or contracted partner.


User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5901 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4625 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 18):
dontyou mean the EMB-190..that would be a good fit for AS or contracted partner.

Wouldn't the E-190's be too large for QX or another AS partner? I would have thought the E-170's would be a better fit and easier to get approvals by Unions.


User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5901 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4623 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 17):
I'm not sure I follow. What "Bench" seats?? I always found Horizon's seats on the F-28 to be incredibly comfortable for a regional aircraft. They had the brown leather seats from what I recall. I flew about 30 segments on them back in the late 90s and never had any complaints about comfort. Actually found them to be much more comfortable than Delta's MD-90s. Goes to show comfort is clearly a perception thing.

The two times I got to fly on the F-28's (once between BOI-SEA and again between PDX-SEA), I remember the seats being fairly hard on the butt. But they were wider and they were leather. I thought the seats were equally as hard on the Q200's.


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 4547 times:



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 19):
Wouldn't the E-190's be too large for QX or another AS partner? I would have thought the E-170's would be a better fit and easier to get approvals by Unions.

E70s would be no advantage over the CRJ-700, infact as a heavier aircraft the E70 is probably even more fuel inefficient than the CR7


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Current And Future Of SQ744? posted Sun Apr 17 2005 06:07:23 by Carlcowkau
Horizon Air And Embaer 170 posted Fri Oct 22 2004 00:01:39 by Leneld
Great Shots Of SAA A346 And Future Of NW A333 posted Thu Jan 30 2003 05:52:29 by Gigneil
The Complete History And Future Of Ansett posted Thu Feb 14 2002 11:24:13 by BNE
Horizon Air CRJ-700's? posted Wed Sep 20 2006 23:37:58 by United777
Horizon Air CRJ 700 posted Sun Dec 19 2004 19:34:09 by RyanL1011
The Future Of Horizon Air (QX) posted Sat Aug 21 2004 07:19:50 by Blackhawk144
The 7E7 And The Future Of Air Travel posted Mon Jun 14 2004 10:40:44 by OD720
Horizon Air CRJ-700 Routes From SEA posted Mon Apr 12 2004 08:46:36 by United777
New Frontier Jet Express / Horizon Air CRJ-700? posted Mon Dec 29 2003 20:10:49 by N80NA