Cschleic From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1052 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 3 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4353 times:
Was chatting recently with someone from Horizon while waiting for a flight, and they mentioned there has been internal talk of eliminating the CRJ's and going to an all Q-400 fleet after the 200's are all gone. Anyone hear anything about this? A lot of carriers are eliminating the 50 seat CRJ's for economics, but the 70-seaters are supposed to be workable from a financial standpoint.
From a passenger perspective, the Q-400's are fast, and ok for shorter trips. But I can't imagine longer flights - say PDX - SAN, or SEA - SBA, etc. that the CRJ's now fly. The noise and vibration would be too much. True, they fly some thin routes now, but they'd be competing with Southwest and others in some larger markets.
Jmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3165 posts, RR: 17 Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4340 times:
That makes no sense as the CRJ-700s fill a niche that the Q400 can't on longer-range flights. Nobody's going to want to sit on a Dash 8 for 800-1100 miles...oh but wait, they don't have that kind of range. I can see them devoting the Q400 on all routes under 700 miles.
PacificWest From United States of America, joined May 2007, 77 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4336 times:
I know what you mean.
I fly the MFR - LAX route often, the morning flight being the CRJ and the afternoon the Q400... even though I love the Q400, there is a noticeable difference in flight-time and cabin noise between the two a/c. I don't think I'd want to be on a Q400 for longer than 2 hours and know I could have taken a jet.
two hours on the q400 would be the limit for me as well, although it was very quite, much quieter than i thought it would be and i was sitting only 2 rows aft of the engine. the seats don't recline at all. do any of the seats recline on RJs?
EA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 12595 posts, RR: 64 Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 21 hours ago) and read 4127 times:
Quoting Cschleic (Thread starter): Was chatting recently with someone from Horizon while waiting for a flight, and they mentioned there has been internal talk of eliminating the CRJ's and going to an all Q-400 fleet after the 200's are all gone. Anyone hear anything about this?
Horizon CEO Jeff Pinneo spoke of this during the year-end earnings call. It's not a given by any means, but there was mention of internal discussion about whether or not it made sense to continue operating a (relatively) small sub-fleet of CR7s when QX is betting their future on the Q400 - a plane with far better operating economics within the QX system, FWIW.
[Edited 2008-03-21 05:11:15]
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
Wedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5566 posts, RR: 5 Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 17 hours ago) and read 3974 times:
Screw the CRJ-900, they should go for the ERJ-170...unless of course we are talking commonality. I would be surprised if QX ditched the 700's. But then again, I was surprised QX ditched the Do-328's and brought back the DH8's back in the 1990's.
So, once the Q200's are gone, is QX going to trim more destinations that typically wouldn't support a Q400 like Pendleton, OR or Yakima, WA?
Woodsboy From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1015 posts, RR: 3 Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 8 hours ago) and read 3748 times:
Horizon has plenty of routes that are too long for a Dash 8. I often take Air Canada Jazz from Vancouver to Smithers BC which is 1h 47m and it is PAINFUL, even that is longer than I would ever want to be on a Dash 8. However...AC Jazz uses the -300 and I believe that they dont have the active noise cancelling that the Q400s have so it might be a moot point. How I long for the good old days of the F-28, that was a fun plane and even though it was ancient compared to a Dash 8, it was quieter, as long as you werent in the back!
EA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 12595 posts, RR: 64 Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 8 hours ago) and read 3701 times:
Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 8): So, once the Q200's are gone, is QX going to trim more destinations that typically wouldn't support a Q400 like Pendleton, OR or Yakima, WA?
Not likely. Even though the Q400 doubles the capacity of the Q200, the breakeven load factor for the Q400 (from what I understand) is only a few seats above that of the Q200.
In other words, for the same price, you just get more.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
Rsmith6621a From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 192 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 6 hours ago) and read 3573 times:
....It's OK. to start mourning. The CRJ's and ERJ are the most inefficient aircraft to fly. If you have to fly them up the road 500 miles and then need a 100 mile ALT you probably will be booting off a few PAX, they are weight critical PIGS. If you are working at a regional that solely flys the above models I would advise you to find other employment they will be parked at Mojave and Tucson very soon...The cost per seat mile is minimal at best.
So far there has been only 2 models of RJs that have proved their worth......the E175/190.
The Q-400 is a fantastic piece of tin. like an earlier poster said perhaps AS will have to put a 73 on some of those longer runs.
Flyboy80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1858 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 5 hours ago) and read 3530 times:
The most recent information from QX management has certainly pointed to an all Q400 fleet. Everyone knows the 700s are on the way out, everyone could feel it coming since DEN closed. QX is Q400 crazy, especially as the dispatch reliability improves. A year from now I can see AS operating many of the harmonization routes currently operated under the CPA with QX. After that, I believe they will look to a third party airline to operate a 100 seater, however as pilot negotiations continue, and the economy shifts, I believe we are at more of a stand still. The company doesn't want to make very many changes, or invest in capital costs, when they are unaware of what their relative position will be tomorrow...we'll wait in see. As far now, we're looking forward to Vegas, Prince George, and Flagstaff!
ThreeIfByAir From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 513 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 3 hours ago) and read 3447 times:
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 10): Not likely. Even though the Q400 doubles the capacity of the Q200, the breakeven load factor for the Q400 (from what I understand) is only a few seats above that of the Q200.
And on top of that, the horrible winter has convinced more people to fly across the Cascades, rather than driving. Some stations could also use the extra capacity to sell more low-bucket fares. PUW, for one, could easily fill a DH4 whenever the Cougs have a big game or with students heading to/from vacation. EAT, YKM, PSC, and ALW, but especially the first 2, were bleeding lots of Seattle traffic to I-90. They always will, but lower fares will reduce it, and that is what this DH4 can provide.
Quoting Flyboy80 (Reply 13): After that, I believe they will look to a third party airline to operate a 100 seater, however as pilot negotiations continue, and the economy shifts, I believe we are at more of a stand still.
Just sign on B6 and its 190s as a "AlaskaConnection" carrier.
Would be a shame to see AS contract out service - the seamless nature of AS/QX is quite phenomenal in the airline industry today. I guess AS pilots would demand 737 wages to fly a smaller plane and wouldn't let QX pilots fly them, even at an increased rate over the CR7. Apparently AS does not have a cost structure to support efficient 73G operation like WN, since those 73Gs are not too far north of 100 in an AS configuration (I think I might be answering my own point here).
Wedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5566 posts, RR: 5 Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3314 times:
Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 15): It was so much more comfy than either the CR7 or the DH4. Those were the days!
Comfy? Those "bench" seats were hard as sitting in wooden benches at a high school ballpark! But I will agree, flying in those F-28's were more roomy inside (despite the tobacco-stained interior) and the seats were a bit wider.
Floridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1988 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3291 times:
Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 16): Comfy? Those "bench" seats were hard as sitting in wooden benches at a high school ballpark
I'm not sure I follow. What "Bench" seats?? I always found Horizon's seats on the F-28 to be incredibly comfortable for a regional aircraft. They had the brown leather seats from what I recall. I flew about 30 segments on them back in the late 90s and never had any complaints about comfort. Actually found them to be much more comfortable than Delta's MD-90s. Goes to show comfort is clearly a perception thing.
Wedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5566 posts, RR: 5 Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3205 times:
Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 18): dontyou mean the EMB-190..that would be a good fit for AS or contracted partner.
Wouldn't the E-190's be too large for QX or another AS partner? I would have thought the E-170's would be a better fit and easier to get approvals by Unions.
Wedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5566 posts, RR: 5 Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3203 times:
Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 17): I'm not sure I follow. What "Bench" seats?? I always found Horizon's seats on the F-28 to be incredibly comfortable for a regional aircraft. They had the brown leather seats from what I recall. I flew about 30 segments on them back in the late 90s and never had any complaints about comfort. Actually found them to be much more comfortable than Delta's MD-90s. Goes to show comfort is clearly a perception thing.
The two times I got to fly on the F-28's (once between BOI-SEA and again between PDX-SEA), I remember the seats being fairly hard on the butt. But they were wider and they were leather. I thought the seats were equally as hard on the Q200's.
EXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3127 times:
Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 19): Wouldn't the E-190's be too large for QX or another AS partner? I would have thought the E-170's would be a better fit and easier to get approvals by Unions.
E70s would be no advantage over the CRJ-700, infact as a heavier aircraft the E70 is probably even more fuel inefficient than the CR7
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