LHR777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 17518 times:
Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 1): It's more proper to call this an attempted invasion at the moment. It is yet to be seen any of these attempts will be successful.
Hence I said 'phase 1'. Looking at the schedules, it would appear that CO is most committed to making LHR work for them. Frequency and the use of 777's seems to confirm that. Still, early days yet, we'll see how it pans out.
Par13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 8599 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 17190 times:
I don't get the thread title, are you suggesting that LHR was somehow protected turf, I thought that premise was dismissed as being a pipe dream.
My hope is that this will finally bring some sanity to those US carriers who somehow believe that LHR is the holy grail. Everyone seems to want the increased flights but expect prices to remain the same, will be interesting to see how the market is after 6 months. LHR with all its prestige has problems, and in this day of high fuel prices and long delays at security checkpoints, ground delays do take a toll on pax, its why some prefer the option of "other London airports", I think the mind set now is that if they have no choice where else will they go, they have to fly right?
Wish I was there to spot with you guys, short term this is the fun part.
ACW367 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 17019 times:
Quoting Par13del (Reply 5): My hope is that this will finally bring some sanity to those US carriers who somehow believe that LHR is the holy grail.
Heathrow is considered the holy grail, because of the amount of other international carriers that fly in to it. Therefore pax flying from the US can interline to African or eastern European nations that have a pausity of service to the US.
Does anybody have a list of codeshare flights from LHR for these four carriers. It would really surprise me if KL flights out of LHR don't now have a NW codeshare number.
DTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 16692 times:
Par13del. AA has the most flights to LHR from US cities. And UA is a close 2nd in flights. So the American invasion as you would put it, has been going on for a long time. I will be intresting to see how well AA and UA fair up with the other US carriers coming into LHR. They have had the choke hold on that airport for a long time. So we could see some price wars going on between everyone. This could get intresting....
Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 13199 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 16022 times:
Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 13): AA has the most flights to LHR from US cities. And UA is a close 2nd in flights.
United really isn't even close anymore.
This summer, AA will have 18 daily flights out of Heathrow compared with only 11 on United. In terms of capacity, the disparity is even larger: this summer, AA will offer a total of 31,112 seats/week at Heathrow, compared with 18,669/week on United - United will offer less than 60% of the weekly seats out of Heathrow as AA.
Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 13): I will be intresting to see how well AA and UA fair up with the other US carriers coming into LHR. They have had the choke hold on that airport for a long time. So we could see some price wars going on between everyone.
There will be competition, and fares/yields will come down as a result. But I doubt we'll see all that many "price wars" going on over the Atlantic to LHR. Remember - these incoming U.S. carriers have now spent tens (in some cases hundreds) of millions on these slots, and they're not going to be gung-ho to drop fares all that low. They have to pay off that investment in the slots, after all!
NYCAAer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 693 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 15875 times:
This is going to be the biggest battle for the skies we've seen in a long time. I know at AA we're going to be fighting fiercely to keep our markets. When I inquired with local management if we might ever downgrade some of our off-peak flights to LHR to a 763, the answer was a resounding no. They want to keep as many 777s as possible for LHR.
I think I read here that UA is downgrading some flights out of ORD to LHR from a 772 to 763. This whole thing is gonna be a great thing to watch! Let the bloodbath begin!
BlackProjects From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2007, 756 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 15874 times:
Once Open Skies starts and Terminal 5 comes on line a lot of Chages will take place at Heathrow so any one knowing which terminal a certain Airline uses must update them selves as Dozens of airlines will be Switching locations in the next few weeks at Heathrow.
Enjoy the Madness that will snsue for the Spotters and Photogs expecting a machine to taxi to one termainal and se said machine go to a totaly diferent location.
Gilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3165 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15746 times:
Great to see all these US carriers starting non-stop service to the USA...
It will be interesting to see how they fair against flying head to head competition on many on these routes. Especially when many of these carriers offer a below par service to what the established carriers out of LHR are flying. Also due to the major slot restrictions at LHR, many of these carriers have purchased far from ideal timings for arriving and departing into London.
Im not sure how true it is, but a friend told me just flying LHR in its own right sells the tickets, and the service is secondary to many passengers. It remains to be seen.
For me, it is sad to see many of the LGW services operated by these arilines, being downgraded to narrow bodied aircraft and frequencies being cut.
(Never been a fan of the 757 across the pond, but thats to be discussed another day!)
But I suppose thats the way things go and LGW will always be in considered a secondary airport by many airlines and passengers a like. In AA's case, dropping LGW altogether!
Its interesting how US Airways gets on as they are very much, going it alone! NW, DL and CO have had a lot of assistance and help from AF and KL to get their LHR services up and running. Does anyone know if US will be code sharing their LHR-PHL services with any other Star Alliance carriers? It could be an opportunity for them to build up a relationship with BMI, but I think they are very much in bed with UA.
Also US Airways' CLT-LGW service is going to face a lot of competition from neighbouring RDU and ATL, which will all have direct LHR services by their respected hub airlines. I wonder if it will be a priority to switch CLT to LHR, when slots become available and US Airways has the funds to purchase them.
LHR777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15542 times:
Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 20): Its interesting how US Airways gets on as they are very much, going it alone! NW, DL and CO have had a lot of assistance and help from AF and KL to get their LHR services up and running.
US Airways are actually getting assistance from UAL. DL is getting a lot of help from AFSL (Air France Services Ltd) and NW is working very closely with KGS (KLM Ground Services). However, NW isn't having any NW personnel at LHR - they only have a station manager who is a KGS employee.
DL does have their own employees, as does CO. Both carriers are working hard to get themselves ready for March 30th. CO has even trained KGS employees themselves, both in Newark and the UK. CO didn't want KGS training their own employees, they wanted them trained the 'CO way' and thus are conducting all their own training. CO also has their own Station Manager, Duty Managers and Lead Agents. They are also building their own ticket desk in Terminal 4.
Depending on what you mean by 'assistance and help', CO has only really had help with slots, as has the other carriers. Remember, CO paid $209 million for 56 weekly pairs of slots. Otherwise, CO and DL are definitely doing their own thing. US has UA and NW has (naturally) KLM.
Par13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 8599 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15521 times:
Quoting Commavia (Reply 16): There will be competition, and fares/yields will come down as a result. But I doubt we'll see all that many "price wars" going on over the Atlantic to LHR. Remember - these incoming U.S. carriers have now spent tens (in some cases hundreds) of millions on these slots, and they're not going to be gung-ho to drop fares all that low. They have to pay off that investment in the slots, after all!
How exactly are they going to increase availabe seats into a market - LHR - and not expect a reduction in price, collusion? The end point is LHR one of the busiest airports in Europe, American's are able to access LHR from all over the US, so this is not the opening up of a new market, it is only allowing pax into the market via another means, if price is not the driving issue, how much are present/new passengers willing to pay for the convenience of flying on your favorite airline, so far the market forces in the US usually end up going for price, loyalty not as much. Service may be a more defining factor for some pax, so unless those carriers with lower levels of service step up their product, they will have no option but to attract customers with something else, and since they cannot choose exactly when they fly into LHR, their only option will be price or some other gimmick. Next 6-12 months will be very interesting.
Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 13199 posts, RR: 62
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15401 times:
Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 20): It will be interesting to see how they fair against flying head to head competition on many on these routes. Especially when many of these carriers offer a below par service to what the established carriers out of LHR are flying.
AA and UA have had an inferior inflight product to BA for years, now, and both seem to have done at least reasonably well at LHR up against BA.
Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 20): Also due to the major slot restrictions at LHR, many of these carriers have purchased far from ideal timings for arriving and departing into London.
That's really only a problem for CO and DL and their EWR- and JFK-LHR schedules, respectively. CO's eastbound and westbound schedules to and from EWR are definitely far better than DL's schedule from JFK, though.
Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 20): Does anyone know if US will be code sharing their LHR-PHL services with any other Star Alliance carriers? It could be an opportunity for them to build up a relationship with BMI, but I think they are very much in bed with UA.
US will no doubt be codesharing with bmi on their LHR services.
Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 20): Also US Airways' CLT-LGW service is going to face a lot of competition from neighbouring RDU and ATL, which will all have direct LHR services by their respected hub airlines.
CLT will do just fine. It's a massive and growing market with important connections to global industries, especially financial services, insurance and banking. RDU and ATL have their own markets that serve their own local constituencies, and I doubt either will have any material impact on CLT.
Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 20): I wonder if it will be a priority to switch CLT to LHR, when slots become available and US Airways has the funds to purchase them.
When they can get slots, in due time, I'm sure CLT will switch to LHR. But it's certainly not as if the route will collapse without shifting to LHR immediately.
: This is a particularly competitive slot, esp with VS operating twice at 16.00 to JFK and EWR and BA operating BA115 to JFK also at 1600. This one wil
: It wont - CO33 operates to IAH, not EWR. It was a typo. Please see replies 10 and 12 above. Moderators - can you please change this in the original p
: One way is if the UK carrier retreats completely, like BA at DTW, in the face of competition from NW, hub carrier based there. I expect BA might retr
: Anyone know what to expect of Terminal 4 right after the switchover? I am scheduled to fly CO29 on the 1st of April. Was curious if I should expect ca
: We call Night-Stops RON'S (Rest Over Night) Why is everyone so upset about U.S. carriers coming over? Nobody got nearly as upset when it was known EK
: Once this happens something has gotta give, LHR is already congested as it is and more flights there is not going to help the situation, irrespective
: Well I think the first response to open skies is UA's reduction in service from ORD-LHR, where 2/3 flights will become 767's by June. While this may s
: The moves are taking place in very many stages over the next few years. I don't know of many apart from BA that are changing terminals in the next fe
: Elimination of short haul flights, or shifting of other flights to LGW will make room at LHR. What we will see is airlines optimizing their use of sl
: Who's upset? It's fair competition, and long overdue. I think RON is actually 'Remain Over Night'? I think you'll find that many people were upset ab
: I agree with most of what you say, but I would take issue with the above. While LHR may not have the same prominent focus within the UA system as it
: Except that US carriers are abandoning their service to the secondary London airports in droves, or at least they all plan on doing so now that they
: Indeed. I read the correction then seemed to ignore it when replying. Oops.
: Interesting..are you sure DL will actually have their own ground staff at LHR? They don't have it today at LGW (the staff are in DL uniforms but they
: In the futture UA will head to T-1 it will not happen in years it will be in months. When BA bails from T-4 they will leave it to its new operators. A
: I think I didn't word myself properly or you misunderstood. I'm in total agreement with you that whats happening is great it just seems like theres a
: Absolutely positive, 100%. Not for everything, but they, like CO, do have their own management and supervisors. As stated above, their check-in is by
: For U.S. carriers, I think the main attraction of LHR over LGW is higher yield since origin/destination business traffic prefers LHR to LGW. While LH
: LHR - AMM* AMMAN, JORDAN LHR - BHD* BELFAST, UNITED KINGDOM LHR - DKR* DAKAR, SENEGAL LHR - ESB* ANKARA, TURKEY LHR - LBA* LEEDS, UNITED KINGDOM LHR
: CO is still flying to LGW and all the other secondary cities in England with the '57's.
: You are misquoting. That reply wasn't me.
: You were mentioning all of the new airlines that arrive in Heathrow, but remember the airlines that were already there that are adding more service! S
: It's actually 2x daily to DFW now. Both 50/51 and 78/79 DFW-LON will be switch from LGW to LHR this Spring - 50/51 on 30 March, and 78/79 on 13 April
: Details regarding the terminal switches: TI/T2/LHR East will be for Star Alliance eventually. T3 will be for Virgin and One World. T4 will be for Sky
: BA is moving their daily LGW-DFW and LGW-IAH operations to LHR T4 on March 30th. They then move again to T5 on April 30th. Note - LGW-ATL stays at LG
: Sorry I meant this and now its to late to edit CO is still flying to LGW and all the other secondary cities in England with the '57's.
: It will be a challenge for BA pasengers departing LHR after T5 opens to ensure they wind up at the correct terminal. It's confusing enough now. With
: Here's the official LHR Terminal moves list, to avoid any confusion. Here's the complete list of new services to the U.S.A. from LHR this summer - Thi
: Let me guarantee you that RDU service is daily.. I just verified on AA's website...
: Fascinating read there, under the "Reports/Statistics" tab on the left, and then under Heathrow. Some interesting information in the "LHR S08 Start o
: Was it because British Airways will end it service between LHR and DTW on March 29? And no service between LHR and DTW til May 2nd? Feel free to corr
: I'm not really correcting you, but adding on. IIRC, NW will still have service to LGW until May 2. So LHR wouldn't be served, but a London Airport wo
: True. I'm a novice but for quite some time now I've read how congested and nightmarish Heathrow has become -- and more flights will not improve this
: Remember - flights at Heathrow are pretty much a zero-sum game nowadays because of the slot situation. There aren't really going to be more flights a
: Where are all these airlines getting the slots from?? Even though the restrictions have ended, the slots don't become available randomly... And what d
: These airlines are buying the slots off the open - albeit "gray" - market. Some are coming from joint venture alliance partners (some of Delta's slot
: So here's what LHR - USA will look like in the summer Are my numbers off?
: And... US's PHL-LHR flight (333) - the PHL-LGW flight (757) is being down gauged, but retained.
: I'm pretty sure you mean '2 by CO to EWR, 2 by DL to JFK'
: Interesting graph, though is it just me or has SK been left out? They're currently operating out of T3 (which I believe is due to most pax transferri
: No, you're not blind mate, SK isn't on the chart. I think there are a couple of errors on there too, as I'm not sure IB is moving on September 17th 2
: Just a quite note, I think I can speak for Virgin Atlantic, American, United, British Airways & BMi and say BRING IT ON Open Skies is working both way
: Are you for real? People didn't get upset about VX? You are completly and totally wrong. People were up in arms, particularly on here.
: Sorry I dont think i'm particularly wrong about all of it. Here where I work everyone here is kind of mellow about it with a wait and see attittude.
: Today is the day folks - CO28 is already on her way from EWR, as is CO4 from IAH, CO32 pushed-back 10 minutes ago and is taxiing... Happy 'Open Skies