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AA 767 With Winglets  
User currently offlineUAL727NE From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 205 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 9 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 10974 times:

Hey all what ever happened to the AA 767 with winglets? Is it flying yet? Any new pics of her? thanks guys


Gotta love 3 holers!!! MD11,DC10,L-1011,B727 for life!!!!
19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineERAUgrad02 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 10586 times:

Not even close to flying yet. There are no pix of the aircraft as of yet. I don't even think they are installed yet or it would be on their site.

Desmond in ILM,



Desmond MacRae in ILM
User currently offlineUAL727NE From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9955 times:

thanks. I saw a pic of it maybe in an old post on here. Just showed the wing and looked like it was getting a phase done on the plane. Didnt know if it was done yet though.


Gotta love 3 holers!!! MD11,DC10,L-1011,B727 for life!!!!
User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9946 times:

The 767 winglets aren't even certified yet. Delta is also installing winglets on thie 767-300ERs. There are even studies of installing winglets on 777s - both AA and DL have been approach by APB for providing a 777 for testing.

User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 9634 times:



Quoting Flynavy (Reply 3):
There are even studies of installing winglets on 777s - both AA and DL have been approach by APB for providing a 777 for testing.

Sure about that? The 777 cranked wing was designed specifically to optimize cruise performance thus eliminating the need for winglets.


User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 9610 times:

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 4):
Sure about that? The 777 cranked wing was designed specifically to optimize cruise performance thus eliminating the need for winglets.

I'm 100% sure, yes. APB has approached us directly with this project. Whether or not it goes forward is another story. As fuel costs continue to rise the benefits become more and more appealing.

[Edited 2008-03-24 03:22:10]

User currently offlinePurpleBox From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 9610 times:



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 4):
Sure about that? The 777 cranked wing was designed specifically to optimize cruise performance thus eliminating the need for winglets.

Not all B777 have the raked wingtips.

PurpleBox.



Next Flights:STH-ATH-STN (A3), BHX-INV-BHX(BE), LCY-FRA-BOG(LH), EZE-FRA-LHR(LH)
User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 9484 times:



Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 6):
Not all B777 have the raked wingtips.

No doubt. The project is currently under development by APB. The following article is dated in 2005 but development continues today - as I said with APB approaching DL and AA desiring a test frame.

Quote:
And in perhaps its most ambitious step, Aviation Partners Boeing is now planning to develop winglets for Boeing's most advanced current model, the 777 twinjet, which carries up to 368 passengers in a typical three-class configuration.

"We're very excited about it," said Marino about the proposed 777 project. He said his company hopes to define the proposed winglets in the first part of this year and start offering a 777 retrofit package before year's end.

Marino said the proposed Boeing 777 "wing extensions" may not resemble the curved winglets his company developed for 737s. "When we do our development, we try to find the optimum shape for each airplane," Marino said.

Source: http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/stories/2005/01/31/story7.html


User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9028 times:



Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 6):
Not all B777 have the raked wingtips.

The 77L and 77W, which are long range aircraft have the cranked/raked wingtips, thus eliminating the need for winglets.

You'd better tell Aviation Partners, since they don't seem to know about it. http://www.aviationpartnersboeing.com/products/futureproducts.html

The 748's wing which is of the same design as the 777LR/W is designed not to use winglets and have the cranked/raked wingtips in lieu of winglets.


User currently offlineEBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8373 times:



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 8):
The 77L and 77W, which are long range aircraft have the cranked/raked wingtips, thus eliminating the need for winglets.

Wouldn't it be just as easy to install the cranked wingtips on older 777s as it would be to install winglets? Both are designed to improve range performance, as I understand it.



Dare to dream; dream big!
User currently offlineBoo22 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4410 times:

AA and Boeing are going to test winglets this year on a 767. Boeing is currently conducting the baseline flight tests in southern California on an AA 767. Once they have the baseline data, they are going to install winglets and then do extensive flight testing later this year.

User currently offlineUAL727NE From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4185 times:

Thanks for all your posts guys!! I didnt know about the 777 getting them too. But yes the older 777's could use the winglets but yea newer ones like the 77L and stuff dont. Cant wait to see the 767 and 777 in them!!


Gotta love 3 holers!!! MD11,DC10,L-1011,B727 for life!!!!
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4144 times:



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 4):
Sure about that?

Very sure. They've been trying since 2002, with thus far no success.

Now, in light of $100+ barrel oil, they (unfortunately) just might.






Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 8):

You'd better tell Aviation Partners, since they don't seem to know about it. http://www.aviationpartnersboeing.co....html

They're well aware of it.

What you, however, don't seem to know about (and in light of such, may want to refrain from throwing stones); is that APB wasn't able to gain access to the patents that BCA-proper has for the raked wingtip design and application... which is the primary reason behind why they cannot retro install it.


User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3874 times:



Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 12):
What you, however, don't seem to know about (and in light of such, may want to refrain from throwing stones); is that APB wasn't able to gain access to the patents that BCA-proper has for the raked wingtip design and application... which is the primary reason behind why they cannot retro install it.

No stones. Source. APB is Airline Partners Boeing.


User currently offlineDc10s2hnl From New Zealand, joined Aug 2006, 166 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3744 times:

I woulda thunk the winglets' benefits for long-distance flights would of made the widebody planes an earlier candidate for the winglets as opposed to 737s and 757s... anybody know if anything is going on at Airbus with raked winglets, besides the failed ones on the A320? For example, replacing the 'fences' on the A330 with some?

User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3617 times:

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 13):
No stones.

...k, then switch it to "ignorant accusations", same concept

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 13):
Source.

One that actually knows what (s)he/it's talking about.

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 13):
APB is Airline Partners Boeing.

...what is this: Obvious Day on Planet Duh?
Suffice it to say, the middle word in that acronym should be your first hint.

[Edited 2008-03-24 16:22:29]

User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3600 times:

The new 767 winglets will add about 10 feet of wingspan to the 767 and they will be 11 feet tall!! Aviation Partners Boeing has a diagram of it on their website, though the drawings are rather crude and not to scale. In fact, from the side view, it looks like they just put more windows on the 737 and called it a 767.

I think it will bring an all new sexy look to an otherwise very boring plane.

Somewhere I read that the ones for the 777 would be around 13' tall.

On a side note, I did not know that the 757 and 737 basically share the same winglet. They are both 8 feet 2 inches tall.

UAL


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3592 times:



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 4):
The 777 cranked wing was designed specifically to optimize cruise performance thus eliminating the need for winglets.

Its really happening, Phil. While I can't find it, I also saw the Flight article about it. It was years ago.

NS


User currently offlineCX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6641 posts, RR: 55
Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3347 times:

Yeah I remember reading that they were looking into providing winglets for the 777. It surprised me at the time and I cannot imagine what a 777 winglet would look like. Very narrow and skinny I guess!

User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3211 times:



Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 9):

Wouldn't it be just as easy to install the cranked wingtips on older 777s as it would be to install winglets?

Raked wingtips increase outboard wing loading more than winglets. You need to do more structural work to take a raked wingtip, which could kill the economics. It's possible they have enough margin to support a winglet but not a raked wingtip.

Quoting Dc10s2hnl (Reply 14):
I woulda thunk the winglets' benefits for long-distance flights would of made the widebody planes an earlier candidate for the winglets as opposed to 737s and 757s...

Winglets only make sense when you're span constrained or margin constrained, and you have a wing with sufficient margin to take them in the first place. Long-distance aircraft tend to be larger and have less span constraint, which is why you see them favoring raked wingtips over winglets.

Tom.


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