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Gun Discharged Accidentaly On US Flt.  
User currently offlineAT777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 191 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 17516 times:

I was looking at the local news here in CLT and saw this article.
Thought it might interesting to some of you. I was unaware of a program for pilots that allow them to carry on a flight.

http://www.wcnc.com/news/topstories/...32308-sjf-gunonplane.1c4cabd1.html

Ashley in CLT

180 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 17503 times:



Quoting AT777 (Thread starter):
I was unaware of a program for pilots that allow them to carry on a flight.

Really?

Federal Flight Deck Officer Program has been around for quite some time now. . . .

Started after 9/11.

http://www.tsa.gov/lawenforcement/programs/ffdo.shtm


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21417 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 17331 times:

I wonder if anyone even noticed? A320 and 737/757 series are not exactly quiet, the cockpit door is reinforced, and the surfaces in the flight deck would certainly help muffle any sound.

But it does reinforce the answer to the question: what happens if a gun goes off in flight? Answer: nothing much unless it hits somebody...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineMd94 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 148 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 17092 times:

I bet those pilots ears rung until well after they landed. My buddy accidently let off a round from his 30-30 in a pickup while we were hunting. Oh my, it hurt our ears so bad...plus the look on both of our faces after it happened was priceless.


72?, 732/3/7/8, 763/4, 773, 744, MD88/90, F100, 319/20/21, E145/135/175/195, CRJ200/700, B206, 152/72/82, CH47, F16D,
User currently offlineKdm From New Zealand, joined Feb 2006, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 17017 times:

Is it only US carriers that carry guns and is it all of them? It was also the first I heard that this was the case. I hate guns at the best of times so am quite disappointed that they allow them on planes now.

User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 16945 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
I wonder if anyone even noticed?

I sure that some especially in the front heard the noise from the discharge.

This is one pilot that won't be carrying a firearm on his flight anytime soon..I imagine that he will be suspended by US Airways for awhile at least.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29705 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 16868 times:

I hope this doesn't get blown out of proportion to the point where the program is xld.

Last time I checked was that the weapon wasn't supposed to be out of it's locked case during the flight. So if that was the case here he was breaking the rules.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineBHMBAGLOCK From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2698 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 16695 times:



Quoting Kdm (Reply 4):
Is it only US carriers that carry guns and is it all of them? It was also the first I heard that this was the case. I hate guns at the best of times so am quite disappointed that they allow them on planes now.

First, Air Marshalls have been carrying on US flights for decades, so it's not really new.

Second, would you rather that the next time Osama's boys want to crash a plane, maybe with you on board, that there be no armed resistance on board? Think of the difference this could have made on 9/11.



Where are all of my respected members going?
User currently offline2175301 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 16586 times:

Unless the gun malfunctioned.... It is unlikely that there was really an accidental discharge - unless the gun was dropped and it was of certain designs.

However, some guns are much easier to "accidentally" misfire than others; and some guns are much more inherently safer (you really must pull the trigger for it to go off).


User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 16534 times:



Quoting Kdm (Reply 4):
Is it only US carriers that carry guns and is it all of them?

US pilots have had the option of going through special training/certification and being allowed to carry a weapon onboard for some time. Air Marshalls have been onboard US aircraft for decades and all are highly trained and armed.

Quoting Kdm (Reply 4):
I hate guns at the best of times so am quite disappointed that they allow them on planes now.

Your completely entitled to your opinion however firearms are perfectly safe as long as the person who is carrying it knows what they are doing and behaves in a professional manner.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 16406 times:



Quoting United1 (Reply 9):
Air Marshalls have been onboard US aircraft for decades and all are highly trained and armed.

Actually, very few flights have any air marshal's on board. The last figure I saw back in 2006 there were only 1500 air (sky) marshals employed by the DHS.


User currently offlineCaptOveur From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 16295 times:



Quoting AirCop (Reply 10):
Actually, very few flights have any air marshal's on board. The last figure I saw back in 2006 there were only 1500 air (sky) marshals employed by the DHS.

And they are constantly hiring. However, the background check excludes just about anyone. I know 3 people who have applied and passed federal background checks for ATF, DEA, FBI, USSS, but failed the background check for Air Marshal.


User currently offlinePHLJJS From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 416 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 16135 times:



Quoting L-188 (Reply 6):
I hope this doesn't get blown out of proportion to the point where the program is xld.

Last time I checked was that the weapon wasn't supposed to be out of it's locked case during the flight. So if that was the case here he was breaking the rules.

The program will not be canceled because of this. There are plenty of incidents where an FFDO has lost or misplaced their weapons over the years and the program is still around. This is the first I've heard of an incident requarding a discharge. Also, the weapon only needs to be in its locked case when the FFDO is not in a locked cockpit. When in the cockpit, they take the weapon out of the case and wear it holstered. If walking through the airport, riding in the cabin as a passenger (deadheading), leaving the cockpit in-flight to use the lav, etc, he/she must have the gun locked up. Last year, DHS also approved a locking holster for use instead of the metal lock box being used.


User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8625 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 16070 times:

Will this pilot get a suspension or fired?

Kinghunter



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 15992 times:



Quoting AirCop (Reply 10):
Actually, very few flights have any air marshal's on board. The last figure I saw back in 2006 there were only 1500 air (sky) marshals employed by the DHS.

I never said that they were on every flight just that they have been onboard US aircraft for decades. You are right that they are not enough to cover every flight you usually have a higher chance of one being onboard "higher risk" flights (TLV, Middle East, DCA, Cities that have large sporting evens going on in them, etc) other then that its really random from a passenger perspective if they will be on a flight.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineA380US From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2358 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 15902 times:



Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 11):
USSS,

Sorry for my ignorance but can you please explain USSS?



www.JandACosmetics.com
User currently offlineAvroArrow From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 1045 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 15658 times:

Oops. Lucky that none of the crew got hit. Also lucky that seemingly no systems were damaged during the incident. Is there a standard sidearm that approved pilot have to use or are they free to choose their own? It'd be the ultimate irony if an airliner was somehow brought down by something like this incident. Although I realize the odds are pretty long, it'd still suck.


Give me a mile of road and I can take you a mile. Give me a mile of runway and I can show you the world.
User currently offlinePhelpsie87 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 498 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 15624 times:



Quoting A380US (Reply 15):
Sorry for my ignorance but can you please explain USSS?

United States Secret Service...

filler

filler


User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 15585 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD DATABASE EDITOR



Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 11):
And they are constantly hiring.

What a wretched, wretched way to spend a career in law enforcement.

2H4



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7129 posts, RR: 87
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 15588 times:



Quoting AirCop (Reply 5):
This is one pilot that won't be carrying a firearm on his flight anytime soon..

Doubtful.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 5):
imagine that he will be suspended by US Airways for awhile at least.

Again, doubtful.

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 11):
the background check for Air Marshal.

I passed it.

Quoting PHLJJS (Reply 12):
only needs to be in its locked case when the FFDO is not in a locked cockpit

 checkmark 

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 13):
Will this pilot get a suspension or fired?

Doubtful and no.

Quoting A380US (Reply 15):
USSS?

United States Secret Service.


User currently offlineA380US From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2358 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 15474 times:



Quoting FXramper (Reply 19):
United States Secret Service.

Thank you

Quoting United1 (Reply 14):

I never said that they were on every flight just that they have been onboard US aircraft for decades. You are right that they are not enough to cover every flight you usually have a higher chance of one being onboard "higher risk" flights (TLV, Middle East, DCA, Cities that have large sporting evens going on in them, etc) other then that its really random from a passenger perspective if they will be on a flight.

Also I see there normally on bigger planes than the single aisles and regionals.



www.JandACosmetics.com
User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7129 posts, RR: 87
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 15476 times:



Quoting A380US (Reply 20):


Quoting FXramper (Reply 19):
United States Secret Service.


Thank you

Of course.


The FFDO program uses H&K .40. The FAMS program uses a Sig Sauer .357.

 twocents 


User currently offlineDetroitflyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 382 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 15451 times:



Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 11):
And they are constantly hiring. However, the background check excludes just about anyone.

I went to a presentation on this in high school, and it certianly seemed hard from what I was told. It has the hardest target/accuracy requirements. And the presenter also said they ask you, if you have ever smoked marijuana before in your life( with a lie detector to back it up). I would guess this exclused a good portion of applicants.

I have been charged with two misdemeanors in the past, no convictions though, wonder if I could be excluded beacause of them?



Boiler Up!!!
User currently offlineCaptOveur From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 14405 times:



Quoting Detroitflyer (Reply 22):
And the presenter also said they ask you, if you have ever smoked marijuana before in your life( with a lie detector to back it up). I would guess this exclused a good portion of applicants.

That is standard in most police jobs. Having done it isn't necessarily a total disqualifier for a lot of jobs as long as you are honest

Quoting Detroitflyer (Reply 22):
I have been charged with two misdemeanors in the past, no convictions though, wonder if I could be excluded beacause of them?

depends on what they are.

These guys had kind of unique things that they are pretty sure disqualified them

Born in Cuba
Mother was a British National
Lived for 8 years in Costa Rica- and worked there
There were a few other really petty things other government agencies didn't seem to mind.. the department of xenophobic security is another story.


User currently offlineDualQual From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 732 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 14705 times:



Quoting Wingspan (Reply 24):
Separately, everybody remember this is a public forum, so be careful with your posts.

Thank you!


25 Post contains links FXramper : They haven't always been hiring. President Bush signed the latest Transportation Bill authorizing some new hires. The number is in the thousands. Try
26 Max Q : It was only a matter of time before this happened. Guns and aircraft don't mix, despite the obsession with many people in this country with having as
27 Arrow : Now that's subversive. No wonder they nixed him. And living and working in Costa Rica? I can't believe he still has a green card. Born in Cuba? Man,
28 Post contains links FXramper : Leaving out the 'captain' above, and the user that 'target shoots' with an FFDO, all this information is obtainable on the internet - www.dhs.gov www
29 Eyes2thesky : Military anti-terrorism units tend to have a zero-tolerance policy: One accidental discharge, and you're gone by the next day. Out of the unit. End of
30 Max Q : One thing I can guarantee, this will happen again, it is only a matter of time. Many of my colleagues are equally uneasy with the prospect of a firear
31 Barney Captain : I don't have a gun (never had), don't like guns, and probably will never own a gun - but in this case, I think you're wrong. It's really all a matter
32 Kdm : Do any other Countries allow guns to be carried in the cockpit is is it just in the US.
33 Goaliemn : thats much louder than any pistol cartridge would ever be. Plus, with all the background noise already in an aircraft, the noise wouldn't be that not
34 DocLightning : The difference could just as well have been made by everyone standing up and throwing everything they had (books, magazines, bottles of toiletries, c
35 Checksixx : "A US Airways pilot’s gun accidentally discharged during a flight from Denver to Charlotte Saturday, according to a statement released by the airlin
36 FlyDeltaJets : Does this FFDO program supersee local gun laws like here in NYC. NYC law requires NYC permit to carry.
37 Bennett123 : Surely it is best to keep it in the box unless you need it for some reason, equally keep safety catch on unless needed. My understanding is that plane
38 BWilliams : Yes. IIRC, in all cases, a Federal law supercedes a state/local law. So, an FFDO permit would also serve as a local permit if the pilot would be stop
39 Fsnuffer : A statement from TSA said the airplane was never in danger, and the TSA and the Federal Air Marshals Service are investigating the incident I support
40 Boeing747_600 : An Air Marshall isnt flying the plane. His job description requires him to have the type of situational awareness that calls for the controlled manag
41 Bennett123 : Perhaps I should say that my last question was purely rhetorical, I doubt that the answer is, (or should be) out there.
42 Boeing747_600 : Can there be anything more retarded than this?! Loaded guns in cockpits are the kind of stuff that right wing gun nuts dream about. The NRA and their
43 Post contains images Queso : Maximum age allowances exclude some of the most qualified and experienced FAM candidates. Incorrect. Even moderately experienced shooters can pass th
44 Checksixx : If you put a human into the equation, there is a risk of an accident. In this case...unless the gun was cooked until the round went off...someone simp
45 Bennett123 : Given that the requirement would involve fast action at close range, you do not need to be a sniper. Surely the target accuracy requirement will not b
46 Miamiair : Until a yahoo with a box cutter starts going to town on your pax. Thanks, but if it is available I would rather use a pistol than a crash axe. Absurd
47 Arrow : The reporter who wrote this story doesn't know how the gun discharged, and neither do you. If he writes it the way you suggest, and he's wrong, the U
48 Checksixx : I meant do disrespect toward him/her. Just that the wording makes it sound as if the malfunctioned and discharged, which would be impossible without
49 Arrow : I'm sure you didn't mean any disrespect. It's one thing to speculate on all manner of causes on A.net, but its quite different (and dangerous) to do
50 PHLJJS : FFDOs are deputized Federal Law Enforcement Officers whose only jurisdiction is the cockpit. They have a wallet ID and are now being issued police ba
51 Checksixx : Wow...thats news to me. Police badges?? No way. They are not Federal Law Enforcement Officers either. Where did you get this info??
52 PHLJJS : The NRA has nothing to do with this program or aviation security in general. A coalition of airline pilots lobbied and succeeded in forming the FFDO
53 Post contains links PHLJJS : I work for TSA. I see them everyday. Metal police badges are being issued as we speak. Please follow the link to TSA.gov for more information about t
54 Post contains links Queso : To back up what I said in my earlier post, here is the actual course of fire. It's no secret: http://www.thegunzone.com/fam-lawman/fam-qual.html The
55 FLFlyGuy : As a flight attendant, I question the worth of the program. The pilots are required to remain IN THE LOCKED COCKPIT if any disturbance takes place in
56 Miamiair : If someone is trying to crash the door to gain access to the FD, that is when it comes in handy. Then again there are many different ways to get the
57 PPVRA : Sure, but if there is no Air Marshall, or s/he is dead. . . If it was such a stupid idea airlines would be complaining and making rules against it. A
58 PPVRA : Two problems: 1. Locks and re-enforced things have been around for a long time and continue to improve as people find ways around it. Don't underesti
59 Checksixx : " target=_blank>http://www.tsa.gov/lawenforcement/pr....shtm Cool, thanks for the link. Backs up what I was thinking in that they have no authority o
60 Queso : Unfortunately, it often takes an event of that magnitude to get people to realize how important certain aspects of safety and security in the air (an
61 Xtoler : This has definately come up in recurrent training classes when we do the CRM block together. I like firearms, but I don't think I'd feel comfortable
62 GPIARFF : This isn't a big deal. Since 2001 we have ad One accidental discharge by a pilot resulting in no loss of life. How many pilots have crashed their plan
63 Queso : How would they know you had it if it's concealed? I carry almost everywhere and nobody has ever known I had a gun.
64 MDorBust : I think this "accident" demonstrates perfectly why we shouldn't have guns on airplanes at all. Everyone on that plane was very lucky that the 40mm bul
65 Bennett123 : Are you sure that the bullet is 40mm, sounds rather a large calibre.
66 Spacecadet : Yeah, instead of holding the passengers at bay with box cutters, they would have had guns. If the terrorists knew that a gun was in the cockpit, they
67 Checksixx : H&K only makes 3 variants of a 40mm weapon and none of them are pistols. Try .40cal.
68 Bennett123 : A 0.357 Magnum is the most powerful handgun in the World (source Dirty Harry) that is 9.07mm.
69 GPIARFF : Dirty Harry carried a .44 mag
70 SpruceMoose : If you'll pardon my pedantry, he was talking about the .44 Magnum, not the .357. And it's no longer the case; several more powerful handgun/cartridge
71 Post contains images Bennett123 : Are you saying that Dirty Harry got it wrong
72 Post contains images SpruceMoose : No. I'm saying you did
73 AT777 : I believe to you and I, this is not that big of a deal specially when no one is injured or died. Ordinary people that don't know or care that much ab
74 Post contains images Motopolitico : I got diet Pepsi all over my screen after reading that. You owe me a new laptop! 40 mm would be like a cannon! A pistol shooting such a 40 mm round w
75 Lowrider : I won't go into details for obvious reasons, but that statement is not strictly true. The only iron clad system would be no cockpit access from insid
76 PHLJJS : If your going to make that kind of argument, please take the time to educate yourself a bit more before doing so. As was mentioned earlier in this th
77 Post contains images GPIARFF : It's all well and good, but I would still love to know what was going through his head right after the discharge. Oh, shit, oh shit, oh shit.
78 MDorBust : Sure it could, very easily. All it takes is one hole and the whole thing could easily pop like a giant balloon. Even worse, he could have been using
79 Boeing747_600 : They are! Name one overseas carrier that allows its pilots to carry handguns! It is sad that the majority of pilots who did NOT want guns in the flig
80 AirNZ : Now this might sound like a strange question, but as being European, what reason would there be for them to have police badges? If, as you pointed ou
81 Lowrider : "Anyone got the number for that truck driving school? What was it, Truckmasters?" No, it wouldn't. There are many examples of aircraft having the pre
82 Lowrider : Identification purposes, especially when interacting with other law enforcement agencies.
83 AirNZ : Actually, if you read the post you'll see that FLFlyGuy actually said arming FA's was not a good idea....he was NOT advocating such a scenario! How w
84 Post contains images Bennett123 : MD or bust You may be interested in RP-C-1184, ( BAC111) On 03/06/1975 bomb in rear right toilet at 20,000 feet. Saboteur killed, plane landed safely.
85 AirNZ : Had it happened though at say, 30,000 feet would there have been decompression??? Such would be a quite different matter entirely so I'm curious as t
86 PHLJJS : I believe the the reason for the badges is to add another form identification possibly making it a bit harder for someone identify themselves as an F
87 Post contains links AirCop : Well, the pilot is officially out of the cockpit for awhile, on leave, while US Airways and the Feds investigate: http://www.azcentral.com/business/ar
88 Post contains links 2175301 : OK, I have no problems with the pilots being armed - or with the program. And while others have tried to point out that explosive decompression would
89 Dehavalandb : There is no such thing as an accidental discharge!!! Guns DO NOT, and I mean NEVER fire without someone playing with it, or being negligent. I carrie
90 Post contains images GPIARFF : Beware of strong statements, I know it doesn't apply here, But I have seen many guns go off in structure fires with no one anywhere near them
91 Max Q : It is true it is a sad thing this 'ffdo' program was not opposed more by those of us with calmer heads. No matter what your political leanings, many p
92 Lowrider : Might want to do a quick search first. Remington lost a lawsuit over the model 700 rifle and issued a bulletin on the model 600. Basically, the gun c
93 Dehavalandb : I used to fly for a, left to be unnamed company back in the day. During a preflight of particular aircraft that was widely known to have some pressur
94 Dehavalandb : Both of your statements prove my point. Both stated instances involve outside influences. 1. FIRE 2. Manipulation of the weapon (all though not a nor
95 Post contains images GPIARFF : I know what your saying, you just didn't include "other outside influences" in your post, so I thought I'd pimp ya!
96 Dehavalandb : You got me fair and square...nice job. I looked up you personal info, I see you are in Kalispell. Nice area. I used to live in Billings and Missoula.
97 Flighty : WAIT, this is much more serious than I thought. They were IN Flight???? OMFG...... ""We know that there was never any danger to the aircraft or to the
98 Baron95 : Does that include the incident of Air Marshals "forgetting" a loaded firearm in the airplane lavatory and the like? I'll trust a pilot with a firearm
99 Goaliemn : They can carry it to the cockpit in a locked box/locked holster. They can't "carry" like someone with a permit to carry. They are exempt from some of
100 Checksixx : There's no such thing as a hollow point armor piercing bullet. Last time I checked, you could still kill someone with a bb gun so ammo isn't that big
101 Falstaff : People like me and the other 4 million plus people who pay our dues to keep guns legal. The NRA isn't some monolith organization. It exists because p
102 Post contains images Wingspan : This thread has me crawling out of my skin reading posts from people who have literally NO idea what they are talking about acting as though they do.
103 Boeing747_600 : Then I'm sorry, but you're part of the problem, in my opinion and I'm sure you have yours on the topic.
104 CaptOveur : Actually, they are probably public record. The department where I work all of our General Orders, Training Manuals, Training files, Qualification sco
105 Post contains images XFSUgimpLB41X : I am a strong advocate of the FFDO program. The reinforced doors are great, but the objective is to put holes in someone who charges the door and eith
106 Queso : Yeah, no idea. Your comments hold a lot of credibility. I'm sorry, what were your credentials again, I must have missed them in your 54 total posts.
107 Bennett123 : Queso You say that you are too old. Is the age on your profile correct.
108 Post contains links AT777 : I would change the title now that there are pics of the accident but i don't know how. Anyways, here is the link to see some pictures. It actually wen
109 Post contains images SXDFC : What tail number was she? I for one am for armed pilots in the cockpit, as for when they are told to use the gun at a situation I guess you will find
110 Post contains links Queso : Yes, it is correct. Requirements for the position can be found here: http://federalgovernmentjobs.us/jobs/Federal-Air-Marshal-1111204.html
111 Post contains images Wingspan : Respectfully doubtful in this instance. Local and state I'm sure this is the case, though records like this at the federal level I'm pretty sure are
112 Post contains links Queso : And I find it interesting you post NO facts or links to support any of the assertions you make. Show me (and all of us) that the information regardin
113 Max Q : This is what happens when you let Dick Cheney fly a plane..
114 Wingspan : I am going to be as polite as possible here. A week... A week? Did you even bother to check the current training info off of usajobs? Just go to a sea
115 DocLightning : To me, this seems to be a question of simple good judgement. Is it safe to fire a gun in an aircraft at cruise altitude? No, apparently it is not. It
116 Post contains images TUNisia : How on earth does a gun accidentally discharge? Did he accidentally pull the trigger whilst showing it off or did it magically fire by itself? It was
117 Type-Rated : I just want to know where the bullet ended up!
118 XFSUgimpLB41X : Another person who doesn't understand the mechanics of aircraft or what a bullet will do to a fusalage. Straight through a window and it'll just caus
119 Eyes2thesky : See reply 108. It punched a hole near the Captain's side-stick.
120 Post contains links Flyin5glow : Just read on cnn that the pilot was suspended from the program and that he was put in a leave up absence as the investigation is pending. http://www.c
121 Type-Rated : I'd like to know what the pilot was doing established on final below 10K and handling a gun. Shouldn't he have been paying more attention to the opera
122 Queso : I think you might be confusing the requirements of the FFDO and FAM. Big difference.
123 Checksixx : Unless it snagged something in the trigger on the way to the floor, simply dropping it won't make it discharge. Under any normal circumstance, the tr
124 Post contains images Kieron747 :
125 Baron95 : Perhaps I wasn't clear in my statement. I am not talking about trusting the pilot as an individual over the air marshal. I am talking about trusting
126 GPIARFF : I had heard some well informed speculation that since the TSA demands that the gun be placed back in the lock box before the pilot leaves the cockpit,
127 N766UA : Someone needs to smack Mike Boyd with a shovel for his comments on this whole incident. His fear-mongering "the whole plane could've come down" commen
128 XFSUgimpLB41X : The weapon is holstered in flight. It's hard to shoot someone if a gun is in a lockbox.
129 Baron95 : The policy of requiring the pilots to handle a loaded weapon multiple times on every flight (to/from the lock box) is just brain dead. If we treat th
130 CaptOveur : State. However, I can tell you of the decent shooters I know. That course of fire would not be that difficult. That is just about impossible. Shootin
131 DocLightning : Depends on where it goes, doesn't it? If it continues on to puncture a fuel tank then it can do a LOT of damage. Why are you so married to the idea o
132 Max Q : Arguing with a gun fanatic is like arguing with your wife, traffic cop, in laws pick one ! They will say or do anything to protect their beloved guns,
133 Lowrider : And arguing with an anti-gun fanatic is like arguing with one person who encompasses all 3.
134 2H4 : They should just start installing pilot-actuated trapdoors in the floor of the entryway to the flight deck and be done with it. 2H4
135 GPIARFF : For anyone versed in SNL, they could be Wilson trap doors. "Cause with Wilson, i'ts outta site!"
136 737tanker : From what I've heard and seen the lockbox is no longer used. What TSA now requires is a padlock that is placed through the trigger guard.
137 GPIARFF : So, they want the FFDO to place something through the triggerguard while it is loaded? Or they want him/her to unload the weapon while still on the f
138 DocLightning : A Tazer or a tranquilizer dart will also put a very quick stop to a hijacking attempt. There are also directed sound weapons that essentially force p
139 GPIARFF : Seen lot's of people get up after a Taze. Not too many get up after a .40 cal to the face.
140 MDorBust : I can't imagine a taser discharge to sensitive electronic equipment would be any better than a bullet to sensitive electronic equipment. He could hav
141 XFSUgimpLB41X : What would those alternatives be? There are large holes in all aircraft. They are called outflow valves, as well as negative and positive pressure rel
142 Baron95 : Spoken like a person who has shot a Tazer or tranquilizer dart at a a group of indivuduals intent on doing you harm, right? Do you have any idea how
143 Max Q : That is a superb idea Baron95 Let's take away all the guns from everyone except the Military and start again. I know, then only the criminals will hav
144 Lowrider : Sure, we'll all give up our guns. You go first.
145 StarGoldLHR : Is it just me... but isnt guns and planes a bad idea ? Doesnt matter if it's the good guys or the bad guys carrying them ?
146 CaptOveur : This response pretty much nails it Tasers are NOT 100% effective. I think they are listed as 99% effective, which is a big step up from OC spray (85%
147 Max Q : Never had one, never wanted one, Lowrider.
148 PPVRA : Considering every country probably has similar regulations, it's kinda difficult. PS: El Al? Yes I know. But at the same time he entertained the idea
149 PPVRA : Read my post above. It certainly may be ineffective in the end, and made absolutely no difference in the events of that day, but that's beyond my poi
150 Rampart : The older adage is that fewer guns, fewer people with guns, and fewer deaths by guns. Good statistics out there for that. Countries with much smaller
151 Post contains links Dragon6172 : http://washingtontimes.com/article/20080328/NATION/927995814/1002 Few things here. How about you pass the controls before you start messing with the w
152 CaptOveur : Most handguns do not have a manual safety. Many that do only have the manual safety so they can be carried cocked and locked. I won't even bother to
153 Miamiair : Queso, He doesn't want to tell you, if he did he'd have to kill you. A .40 S&W will not penetrate the laminated flight deck windows. I have experimen
154 Post contains images Bond007 : Yes, there are many statistics supporting that.... read one that in the USA you are 34 times more likely to die from a gunshot, than in Europe. Those
155 Post contains images MDorBust : Wait... So, you want the NRA, whose stated goal is to promote and encourage safe and responsible gun ownership by as many citizens as possible, to st
156 Miamiair : Does this mean I'll have to give up my M-2? It should take no more 40 hours of labor to repair the damage and maybe $100.00 in materials. I cannot es
157 Rampart : Never said I wanted to get rid of private ownership. NRA in it's core mission is an organization that does exactly what you state, encourage safe and
158 Post contains images MDorBust : Yeah... just "limit" it. Spare us, we know what you mean. [sarcasm]... And I have black friends, I swear I'm not a racist...[/sarcasm] And where in t
159 Rampart : Sorry, you just aren't worth the pixels of reply on this screen. Pick a fight with someone who wants one. Your neighbor. The 7-11 guy. Your congressm
160 CaptOveur : Most of our crime issues that you attribute to guns someone who looks at them objectively will likely attribute them to various social problems. If w
161 MDorBust : Can you imagine the disappointment I feel in myself to find out that a person who would take away my rights doesn't approve of me fighting to keep th
162 Dragon6172 : I am by no means an expert on hand guns. Certainly do not carry one on a daily basis. I did carry one daily the two years I spent flying around the b
163 Queso : I don't see how you could provide much more training without turning them into a member of the Seal team. Wingspan claims they get "months of instruc
164 Rampart : I appreciate your more civil and reasonable points. Frankly, I can't argue with much of it. I strongly agree about the greater social issues, and it'
165 MDorBust : The military is a bit squirely on the conditions. The real conditions are: Condition Zero: Chambered and cocked, safety off Condition one: Chambered
166 CaptOveur : Pilots train thousands of times in a full motion simulator over a career in how to deal with a stressful approach. There has yet to be a realistic, f
167 Rampart : Like I said, none of this is familiar to me, and this particular discussion is educational, and I'm learning something. As with anything with strong
168 2H4 : Personally, I have yet to form a solid opinion on guns in the cockpit, but I wonder if the lack of terrorists with bullet holes isn't to some extent
169 CaptOveur : No, but can you name me one single case of a bayonetting? I have asked this question a lot and I have yet to hear of one. The point is if I buy a his
170 DocLightning : So apparently because I am opposed to a firearm on an airplane, I am an anti-gun nutjob. I will defend the 2nd amendment with my dying breath. Because
171 Rampart : I certainly see your point. Not unlike muzzleloaders I enjoy seeing at rendezvous re-enactments. If I were to guess, however, muzzleloaders haven't b
172 Eyes2thesky : Finally...finally... someone brought this up. This is exactly why I support the right to own a firearm. I don't hunt. I don't shoot competitively. I
173 CaptOveur : There are plenty of documented cases of Tasers not being effective. Is it almost perfect? Yes, but as I said before it takes a lot longer to get on t
174 Bennett123 : Surely you only need to tazer him for long enough to put the cuffs on?.
175 Max Q : The option of armed revolution against the government eh, Like to see how far you get with that..
176 Dragon6172 : Uh... pretty sure ya missed the point there. The idea is to practice the steps in a non stressful, controlled enviroment, so that they become second
177 MDorBust : If you want to touch the guy with the electrical current going through him, be my guest. It will be a learning experience. You have to stop the curre
178 DocLightning : It's not even about that anymore. The little pop-guns they let citizens own won't do jack diddly against a tank. If I were to re-write the U.S. Const
179 DocLightning : There are plenty more documented cases of guns accidentally causing damage, injury, and death. So far, holes in planes = 1. Holes in terrorists = 0.
180 Dragon6172 : Hey... thats my line... haha
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