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Pax Door Falls Off Challenger In Flight  
User currently offlineComairGuyCVG From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 337 posts, RR: 1
Posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 14950 times:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...97233/detail.html?rss=den&psp=news

Yikes! Haven't heard if there were any passengers on board, but if so I hope they were buckled up tight!

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCeph From Singapore, joined Jun 2007, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 14892 times:

Oh my... thats bad...

User currently offlineBP1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 593 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 14499 times:

The Challenger landed back without incident, except for not having the main door in place.

Cheers,
BP1



"First To Fly The A-380" / 26 October 2007 SYD-SIN Inaugural
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 14440 times:

What was the cause.Was some work carried out on the Door?
Was it corrosion.
regds
MEL.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineComairGuyCVG From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 337 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 14257 times:

Looks like they updated the story on the link....no pax on board..just the pilots.

User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5434 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 14239 times:



Quoting ComairGuyCVG (Reply 4):
Looks like they updated the story on the link....no pax on board..just the pilots.

Before or after the door fell off ??

Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineEmSeeEye From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 508 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 14188 times:

The A/C was N213TS. Its a 601.

If I'm not mistaken (which I probably am to begin with) this happened before sometime during the 90's with another 600 or 601.


User currently offlineGulfstream650 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 13991 times:

Looks like this plane has had trouble before, here you see the engine smoking.

Note the Ram Air Turbine deployed on the nose!

See this link: http://flickr.com/photos/avsfan/447938563/

[Edited 2008-03-25 12:55:04]


I don't proclaim to be the best pilot in the world but I'm safe
User currently offlineBP1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 593 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 13934 times:

Just reviewed the preliminary accident data and the aircraft had only (2) crew on-board so it must have been a positioning flight. Serial number 3013 and operated by Corporate Flight Management out of Chesterfield, MO under WFP Investments, LLC. and appears to be a Part 91 aircraft.

Regards,
BP1

N213TS s/n 3013 is a 1983 Canadair Challenger 601 and is operated on the part 91 certificate, WPIJCE03, of WFP Investments LLC (c/o Corporate Aircraft Management – UVCA685U) in Chesterfield, Missouri.

IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 213TS Make/Model: CL60 Description: CL-600/601/604 Challenger (CC-144, CE-14
Date: 03/24/2008 Time: 2152
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Unknown
LOCATION
City: GRAND JUNCTION State: CO Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT DEPARTED GRAND JUNCTION VFR AND THEN ENTERED A DOWNWIND SQUAWKING
7700 (Emergency). THE AIRCRAFT TURNED BASE AND LANDED RUNWAY 29, AS THEY ROLLED PAST,
THE TOWER NOTICED THE MAIN CABIN DOOR WAS MISSING, GRAND JUNCTION, CO
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 2 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: METAR VRB 03K 10 CLR 17/M13 A3003

[Edited 2008-03-25 13:10:58]


"First To Fly The A-380" / 26 October 2007 SYD-SIN Inaugural
User currently offlineEmSeeEye From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 508 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 13836 times:



Quoting Gulfstream650 (Reply 7):
Looks like this plane has had trouble before, here you see the engine smoking.

Note the Ram Air Turbine deployed on the nose!

I cant tell from this picture but the smoke looks like the plane was just started in cold weather or it could be bleed air. Judging by the brown grass in background I would say its winter time. Just about every challenger 601-604 does this when started in the cold. After reading the caption I'm sure what the person heard on the ground was the RAT deployed.


User currently offlineAmccann From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 175 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 13799 times:

Wow, that is for sure a bizarre event. I like the preliminary accident report "THE TOWER NOTICED THE MAIN CABIN DOOR WAS MISSING" Thanks Captain Obvious. I guess it is a report though and most likely does require the addition of all the little details such as those.

I would really like to know what the cause of the door falling off was. Was the door not properly closed? Were the hinges of the door put under undue stress due to untypical flight maneuvers? (That may obviously be stretching it, but who knows)



What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25843 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 13754 times:

Not the first time something like this has happened. The passenger door of a TAM Fokker 100 opened and separated from the aircraft shortly after takeoff from CGH in 2006. The door landed in the parking lot of a supermarket.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2006/08/09/1710418.htm


User currently offlineGulfstream650 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 13690 times:



Quoting EmSeeEye (Reply 9):
I cant tell from this picture but the smoke looks like the plane was just started in cold weather or it could be bleed air. Judging by the brown grass in background I would say its winter time. Just about every challenger 601-604 does this when started in the cold. After reading the caption I'm sure what the person heard on the ground was the RAT deployed.

Did you read the text that came with the photo?!????? I know what you mean about the possibility of it being a engine start but you must take account of the ram air turbine which would lead me to believe that the info with the picture is credible.



I don't proclaim to be the best pilot in the world but I'm safe
User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 13663 times:



Quoting Amccann (Reply 10):
..."THE TOWER NOTICED THE MAIN CABIN DOOR WAS MISSING"

It's very possible the flight crew only knew they had a problem with the door or cabin and did not know the door was missing until the tower told them.

It's not easy to see the door from the cockpit if the equipment rack is located where it was on the 601's the company I work for has for our executives.

The report indicates the crew was very busy and trying to get the aircraft on the ground quickly.

Quoting Amccann (Reply 10):
...I would really like to know what the cause of the door falling off was. Was the door not properly closed? Were the hinges of the door put under undue stress due to untypical flight maneuvers? (That may obviously be stretching it, but who knows)

The flight was VFR and apparently did not get very far before returning. While I'd expect improper closure - it could well have been a post-maintenance test flight where something didn't get fixed right.

It's all pure dartboard speculation right now.


User currently offlineDehavalandb From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 13623 times:



Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 13):
It's very possible the flight crew only knew they had a problem with the door or cabin and did not know the door was missing until the tower told them.

Have you actually ever flown in an aircraft? I can absolutely guarantee the pilots knew the door was open. Whether or not it had fallen off would be different. The noise level would have been tremendous as soon as it opened. I flew a jet when the main door seal started to leak/fail and it, (the noise) almost made me jump out of my skin, it was so loud. If the door had fallen off God knows how loud it was.



"Common sense is not quite so common" Benjamin Franklin
User currently offlineZuluAviator994 From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days ago) and read 13208 times:

That would be bad...Man I would hate to be in that plane lol
I wonder if it was corrosion in the Seal?  Confused Don't biz jets have a tendency for corrosion?
Regards,
Morgan



If Speed is life, Altitude is life insurance. No one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineBP1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 593 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days ago) and read 12914 times:

Are you asking if biz jets have more corrosion than commercial jets? You mean like 757's that have wing corroded wing panels falling off the plane?

BP1



"First To Fly The A-380" / 26 October 2007 SYD-SIN Inaugural
User currently offlineZuluAviator994 From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days ago) and read 12849 times:

No , to BP1,
I know that Corrosion that results in major damage to aircraft is somewhat remote, but I was just wondering if the plane had been serviced correctly.
I was talking about the FBO service in the above comment, I apologize.
Morgan



If Speed is life, Altitude is life insurance. No one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineDaBuzzard From Canada, joined Sep 2007, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days ago) and read 12811 times:

Very lucky for this crew the door didn't go over the wing and into the engine........sounds like enough of a brown trousers moment without loosing an engine as well  Wow!

User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 12397 times:



Quoting Dehavalandb (Reply 14):
Have you actually ever flown in an aircraft? I can absolutely guarantee the pilots knew the door was open.

An aircrew flew a B737 to landing with half the danged roof ripped off the aircraft - and did not know it was missing.

If you bothered to read what I wrote, you would see that I said they

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 13):
only knew they had a problem with the door or cabin and did not know the door was missing until the tower told them

A broken cabin window can create much the same noise/ sound - something I've experienced at 33,000 ft in an A-3 Skywarrior.

They may have suspected the door was the problem. Very likely there was a warning about the door being open. But the way the preliminary report reads, they did not communicate the nature of their problem to the tower.

Yes, I've flown on a couple aircraft in my life - only about 1,250 hours as a crew member on C-121/ EC-121 Super Constellations and over 30 trips across the Pacific in such as DC-8 - C-130 - C-141 - C-5 - B707 - B747 - DC-10. Even the flight from Antigua to Ascension was interesting.


User currently offlineCPHGuard From Denmark, joined Jun 2006, 278 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10715 times:

I was under the impression, that when a passenger aircraft is pressurized, the door cannot open, and therefor not come loose.

Am i wrong?


User currently offlineA380US From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2358 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10715 times:

THAT IS CRAZY.
I would freak out if the door fell offf while I was in the plane.



www.JandACosmetics.com
User currently offlineCanadianNorth From Canada, joined Aug 2002, 3395 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10715 times:



Quoting CPHGuard (Reply 20):
I was under the impression, that when a passenger aircraft is pressurized, the door cannot open, and therefor not come loose.

Am i wrong?

As far as I know most pressurized airliners use some form of plug sorta door, which latches in place in such a way that the pressure from inside the fuselage pushes the door tight against its stops, thus preventing it from opening in flight.



CanadianNorth



What could possibly go wrong?
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25843 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10125 times:



Quoting CanadianNorth (Reply 22):
Quoting CPHGuard (Reply 20):
I was under the impression, that when a passenger aircraft is pressurized, the door cannot open, and therefor not come loose.

Am i wrong?

As far as I know most pressurized airliners use some form of plug sorta door, which latches in place in such a way that the pressure from inside the fuselage pushes the door tight against its stops, thus preventing it from opening in flight.

The passenger door on many business jets, including the Challenger, and most regional jets including all CRJs (also many but not all Fokker 100s) is hinged at the bottom and opens downard and contains built-in airstairs. Those aren't plug-type doors. They rely on similar strong latches like the outward-opening cargo/baggage compartment doors on many aircraft, and the main deck cargo doors on freighters.

That reminds me of the following i1989 ncident in 1989 involving a Tampa Colombia DC-8-63 freighter.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19890714-0


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © JetPix



User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8430 times:



Quoting CanadianNorth (Reply 22):
As far as I know most pressurized airliners use some form of plug sorta door, which latches in place in such a way that the pressure from inside the fuselage pushes the door tight against its stops, thus preventing it from opening in flight.

This flight was only a few minutes long and never got high enough to significantly pressurize the aircraft. It's even possible the door failed when the pressurization started.


25 EmSeeEye : Ok, I asked my local Challenger expert and this did indeed happen in the past. I have scoured through incident databases and found nothing but this h
26 Rscaife1682 : You are correct most are. In this case the cabin was not pressurized yet be the sounds of it after dep sqw 7700 and rolled right into a downwind base
27 Turbonytro : OK FOLKS FORGET about pax doors falling off of ANY jet BUT THE CL600 series. Not the 600's (with shiznit Lycomings and PITA doors), but the 601 and 60
28 Turbonytro : Considering that there were allegedly only the flight crew on the jet the previous post may be false since there may not have been an FA (Flight Atten
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