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The 52 Largest Domestic O&D Markets  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32699 posts, RR: 72
Posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 13212 times:

edited for bad counting

Here we go. America's fifty largest domestic O&D market based on traffic between August 2006 and July 2007.

Some notes on the figures:
1) Domestic O&D only. They do not include international O&D.
2) I combined airports based on MSA regions as determined by the U.S. census. MSAs are the most common standard used for measuring population size, although there will obviously be many that disagree with some of the ways they are determined (i.e. San Jose and San Francisco/Oakland are seperate MSAs). To be standard across the board, however, I stuck with airports in the MSAs. These include the obvious (IAH/HOU; ORD/MDW), but also the not-so-obvious (PHL/ACY; ONT/PSP).

1) New York City - 62.6M
2) Los Angeles - 48.4M
3) Chicago - 41.3M
4) Miami - 32.8M
5) Las Vegas - 32.5M
6) San Francisco - 29.5M
7) Orlando - 29.3M
8) Dallas - 26.9M
9) Atlanta - 26.1M
10) Washington - 25.9M
11) Phoenix - 23.9M
12) Denver - 22.6M
13) Boston - 20.6M
14) Seattle - 19.9M
15) Houston - 19.5M
16) Philadelphia - 18.1M
17) San Diego - 16.5M
17) Tampa - 16.5M
19) Baltimore - 15.7M
20) Detroit - 15.4M
21) Minneapolis - 15.3M
22) Honolulu - 12.3M
23) Portland - 10.9M
24) St. Louis - 10.2M
25) Salt Lake City - 10.1M
26) Sacramento - 9.7M
27) San Jose - 9.5M
28) Kansas City - 9.4M
29) Charlotte - 8.4M
30) Raleigh - 8.3M
31) Nashville - 7.8M
32) Inland Empire - 7.7M
33) Pittsburgh - 7.5M
34) Cleveland - 7.4M
35) Fort Myers - 7.3M
36) Indianapolis - 7.1M
37) Austin - 7.1M
38) San Antonio - 6.9M
39) Hartford - 6.3M
40) Columbus - 6.2M
40) New Orleans - 6.2M
42) San Juan - 6.1M
43) Jacksonville - 5.6M
44) Milwaukee - 5.5M
45) Albuquerque - 5.4M
46) Maui - 5.1M
47) Providence - 4.8M
48) Buffalo - 4.7M
49) Reno - 4.4M
50) Cincinnati - 4.3M
51) Memphis - 4.1M
52) Tucson - 3.8M

[Edited 2008-03-26 11:44:35]

[Edited 2008-03-26 11:58:13]


a.
95 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9594 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 13199 times:

It makes me wonder how NW succeeds with none of its hubs in the top 19 O/D markets.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6552 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 13176 times:

Nice to see MSY make the top 40...tied with CMH even. I'd expect that number to increase as more people return to the area. Not too bad though, currently.

User currently offlineLesismore From United States of America, joined May 2007, 142 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 13112 times:



Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 1):
It makes me wonder how NW succeeds with none of its hubs in the top 19 O/D markets.

Those rankings make sense, somewhat correlating with MSA ranking.

Detroit is the 10th largest MSA, and Minneapolis the 16th.

NW has a very large international presence in their DTW/MSP hubs, that may be how they are (or were) succeeding.



I'm a success today because I had a friend who believed in me and I didn't have the heart to let him down. - Abe Lincoln
User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 13087 times:

MAH, great data -- where did you get it?

Any chance you can dig up International O&D numbers too? I'd like to see where Houston ranks on that list.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9191 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 13015 times:



Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 2):
Nice to see MSY make the top 40...tied with CMH even. I'd expect that number to increase as more people return to the area. Not too bad though, currently.

Every now and then I do see more and more service making a come back as more people return. Some folks say that it's almost back, but I guess I won't be able to tell once I check it out myself. I was in New Orleans 8 months before Katrina hit and I thought it was a wonderful city!

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
33) Pittsburgh - 7.5M

As for my city -- well former home anyway, hopefully this will continue to climb. It kinda leveled off last year, but there is talk of WN adding more destinations and flights. High-up management and I think route planners were in talks with the ACAA a few weeks ago to talk about their service at PIT. They keep posting gains in pax and revenues all across the board since their service began in May 2005.

It was rumored a few months ago that they would operate some 70 daily flights there, but given the current state of the economy, I do not expect that to come to fruition. I do expect them to add more service tho. I think they now offer at least 25 daily flights to PHL, PHX, MDW, MCO, TPA, BWI, and LAS. Many think that PVD, BDL, BNA, and STL might be possibilities -- maybe 2x each...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26426 posts, RR: 76
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12978 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
2) I combined airports based on MSA regions as determined by the U.S. census. MSAs are the most common standard used for measuring population size, although there will obviously be many that disagree with some of the ways they are determined (i.e. San Jose and San Francisco/Oakland are seperate MSAs). To be standard across the board, however, I stuck with airports in the MSAs

ONT is actively marketed as an alternative airport to LAX, and you took it out because of the Census' idiotic definition of MSAs. Los Angeles is the economic engine for the IE and thathas to be included. San Jose is another one.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32699 posts, RR: 72
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12818 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):

ONT is actively marketed as an alternative airport to LAX, and you took it out because of the Census' idiotic definition of MSAs. Los Angeles is the economic engine for the IE and thathas to be included. San Jose is another one.

I myself live in LA (city proper) and never, ever consider ONT an "alternative." It is just way to far out of the way, and the drive can take as long as 2.5 hours in traffic, but that's just one person's opinion. When I lived in Miami (again, in the city proper), I never considered PBI an alternative, but I know people in north Miami-Dade who would drive up to PBI all the time.

Whether or not the census' definitions are "idiotic", that's what they are, and that was the most standard way of comparing them. Adding ONT to LA doesn't change the rankings; adding SJC to SFO/OAK brings it up to 4th.

[Edited 2008-03-26 13:31:40]


a.
User currently offlineATCtower From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 542 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12787 times:

This was kind of a shock to me. I would have figured DEN would have been much higher on the list than #12... Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't DEN long been one of the top O&D markets in the US?
My twocents 



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User currently offlineDellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12758 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
32) Inland Empire - 7.7M

Someone could clarify?


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12758 times:

while these are helpful stats, they don't really show what matters which is revenue. If you use revenue, LAS and MCO move down quite a bit because of their low fare nature while hubs like IAH, PHL, ATL, DTW, and MSP move up in the rankings. As always, statistics can be used to show what you want. If you want to show how many people travel by air to each metro area, you have done that. If you want to know what metro areas are most valuable to airlines, that is a different set of data.

User currently offlineSt530 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12710 times:

I am perplexed as to how or why Dallas and Atlanta, which are roughly the same size as Houston and otherwise rather similar demographically, supposedly each generated some 7 million more (> 35%) O&D passengers. Where are all the additional people coming from? Neither should have significantly greater O numbers than Houston, and neither is a big tourist city that would explain higher D numbers (the business D travelers among the 3 cities should be roughly equal).

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32699 posts, RR: 72
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12709 times:



Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 9):
Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
32) Inland Empire - 7.7M

Someone could clarify?

Ontario-Palm Springs, California, west of LA. It used to be part of the LA metro area until a few years ago.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 10):
If you want to show how many people travel by air to each metro area, you have done that.

I never purported to try to show anything else.



a.
User currently offlineBAGoldEx From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12709 times:



Quoting ATCtower (Reply 8):
This was kind of a shock to me. I would have figured DEN would have been much higher on the list than #12... Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't DEN long been one of the top O&D markets in the US?
My

As far as I'm concerned the numbers seem made up. Atlanta seems ridiculously high while Philadelphia and Houston, two of the five largest metro areas in the country don't even crack the top ten. I'd believe it if the raw numbers were provided but the earlier request for a source went unanswered and that always reeks to me of impropriety regardless of the situation. Surely you must have a spreadsheet or something you can link to with all of this info and the reliable sources.


User currently offlineKingAir200 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1611 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12687 times:



Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 9):
Someone could clarify?

The Inland Empire an area in California east of Los Angeles, primarily encompassing Riverside and San Bernardino counties. Palm Springs, Riverside, San Bernardino, Ontario, et al are considered to be part of the Inland Empire



Hey Swifty
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32699 posts, RR: 72
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12680 times:



Quoting St530 (Reply 11):
I am perplexed as to how or why Dallas and Atlanta, which are roughly the same size as Houston and otherwise rather similar demographically, supposedly each generated some 7 million more (> 35%) O&D passengers. Where are all the additional people coming from? Neither should have significantly greater O numbers than Houston, and neither is a big tourist city that would explain higher D numbers (the business D travelers among the 3 cities should be roughly equal).

The figures are domestic only. Houston is definitely a much larger international O&D market, with a significant chunk of business (oil industry) traffic to the region being international.

Also, thanks to some city's geographic location, city's might pull from a much wider area outside just the metro. Albuquerque, for example, pulls in traffic from throughout the whole state, and ranks much higher than others it's size. Same with Salt Lake City.



a.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32699 posts, RR: 72
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12686 times:

Quoting BAGoldEx (Reply 13):
As far as I'm concerned the numbers seem made up. Atlanta seems ridiculously high while Philadelphia and Houston, two of the five largest metro areas in the country don't even crack the top ten. I'd believe it if the raw numbers were provided but the earlier request for a source went unanswered and that always reeks to me of impropriety regardless of the situation. Surely you must have a spreadsheet or something you can link to with all of this info and the reliable sources.

Yes, that's right. I go around making up charts for fun.

http://www.eclatconsulting.com/im_pdf/top_200_us_markets.pdf

Houston probably doesn't crack the top ten because they have a significant amount of international traffic.

Philadelphia probably doesn't crack the top ten because they are in a very dense region. Much traffic to major travel markets - like DC and New York City - goes by train. Not to mention they do leak traffic to Newark from the northern/eastern suburbs.


2) Los Angeles - higher if you include ONT/PSP.
4) Miami - major metropolitan area and major tourist destination (in which most arrive by air) gives high O&D; Florida's geography create above average daily O&D on intra-state markets.
5) Las Vegas - major tourist destination; most people arrive by air.
6) San Francisco - higher if you include SJC.
7) Orlando - major tourist destination; most people arrive by air.
8) Dallas - pulls in traffic that drives to DFW from all over northern Texas/southern Oklahoma for cheaper airfare
9) Atlanta - pulls in traffic that drives to ATL from all over northern Georgia/southeast Tennessee for cheaper airfare
10) Washington - traffic leakage to Baltimore
11) Phoenix - pulls in traffic that drives to PHX from all over western Arizona for cheaper airfare; popular tourist destination with Midwesterners.
12) Denver - pulls in traffic that drives to DEN from all over central Colorado; Colorado's geography makes intra-state O&D numbers higher than average for certain markets; many tourists to ski resorts will fly into Denver and rent cars to go to surrounding areas.
13) Boston - major markets like NY and DC lose traffic to trains; some traffic leakage to MHT/PVD
14) Seattle - pulls in traffic that drive to SEA from all over northwest Washington for cheaper airfare; major regional business centre with above average O&D for short-haul markets.
16) Philadelphia - major markets like NY and DC lose traffic to trains; traffic leakage to Newark
20) Detroit - some traffic leakage to Flint
25) Salt Lake City - pulls in traffic from all over Utah as SLC is the only airport in Utah with non-EAS airline service; pulls in the majority of ski traffic to Utah.
35) Fort Myers - 7.3M - major tourist destination
45) Albuquerque - 5.4M - only non-EAS airline service in the state; pulls in traffic from throughout New Mexico; popular tourist destination both winter and summer
50) Cincinnati - 4.3M - Delta's high-fares scare traffic away to Dayton, Louisville

[Edited 2008-03-26 14:07:52]

[Edited 2008-03-26 14:15:37]


a.
User currently offlineETforLIFE From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 30 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12655 times:



Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 9):
Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
32) Inland Empire - 7.7M

Someone could clarify?

The inland empire is basically Riverside & San Bernandino counties. It's about 35 miles east of Los Angeles and 30 miles north of Orange County. With home prices extremely high in the LA/Orange County area, a lot of people are moving here, hence the rapid growth. ONT serves the Inland Empire. All this talk of ONT serving as an alternative to LA/Orange County residents (like LAWA renaming it LA/Ontario International) is to get people to fly out of ONT, but no one wants to drive 30 miles in our horrible traffic


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32699 posts, RR: 72
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 12594 times:

Quoting ETforLIFE (Reply 17):
All this talk of ONT serving as an alternative to LA/Orange County residents (like LAWA renaming it LA/Ontario International) is to get people to fly out of ONT, but no one wants to drive 30 miles in our horrible traffic



ONT is not a real alternative, IMO, as much as people want to make it out to be. If I have friends/relatives visit me in LA, I remind them not to fly to Ontario. It would literally take half a day to get there, pick them up, and drive back to LA. Not to mention 100 miles on my odometer.

[Edited 2008-03-26 14:16:04]


a.
User currently onlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7554 posts, RR: 28
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 12498 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 10):
As always, statistics can be used to show what you want. If you want to show how many people travel by air to each metro area, you have done that. If you want to know what metro areas are most valuable to airlines, that is a different set of data.

On A.net, it always seems that whenever anyone posts a set of data, and gives the definition of the data they are presenting, people are always very quick to dispute it and say the original poster was using it incorrectly.

MAH4546 wasn't try to make any gross exaggerations here. He didn't make any false claims about how important or valuable certain markets are.

WT, I agree with you as this is only one set of datapoints, so be it. It does provide some interesting insight though.

Since it is only domestic O&D, it only tells part of the story. It is not international O&D, total O&D, enplanements, or the cost of tea in China.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 1):
It makes me wonder how NW succeeds with none of its hubs in the top 19 O/D markets.

Many of the larger markets have multiple airports are multiple carriers with a significant presence. Additionally, NW's operations at DTW & MSP are of the size to which they can profitably operate. Hence, why you don't see the international service into 2nd tier makets like you see from ORD, ATL, etc.


User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 12483 times:

All I can say is that your innovative combining of the typical airport O&D numbers accomplished making Miami and NYC look surprisingly better in rank than their actual airports (MIA/JFK,EWR,LGA). Also, as we all know, Airport O&D and Catchment size is more typically used to determine potential route viability for airlines.

User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 12440 times:



Quote:
It makes me wonder how NW succeeds with none of its hubs in the top 19 O/D markets.

A while back, there was a thread comparing the number of businesses in the Atlanta area with the number of businesses in the metropolitan Twin Cities area. As I recall, both areas have a VERY large number of businesses headquartered there, justifying "hub" operations. I can't find the link - anyone know the one I'm talking about?

Minnesota isn't the largest state population-wise, but MSP is a very profitable hub for NW. It is also a vital link for may parts of the upper midwest that may not have service to DEN, ORD, or DFW, so it works for both O&D and hub operations.



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User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11526 posts, RR: 61
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 12425 times:



Quoting Vega (Reply 20):
All I can say is that your innovative combining of the typical airport O&D numbers accomplished making Miami and NYC look surprisingly better in rank than their actual airports (MIA/JFK,EWR,LGA).

I don't think its "innovative" at all.

There is absolutely nothing strange about gaging the relative size of air markets by combining the statistics for airports that serve those markets.

Combining Miami and Fort Lauderdale is, in my mind, totally reasonable - they serve much of the same market, as evidenced by the fact that over the last few years we've seen lots of the same traffic, and market share, shift between the two.

Same with JFK, LaGuardia and Newark: I don't see how any rational person could possibly look at the New York air market and not combine all three. All three are less than 25 miles from each other, and as anyone who has lived in or travelers frequently to the Tri-State area will tell you, they largely serve exactly the same market (which, by the way, happens to be the largest metro area in North America). Sure, North Jersey isn't likely to drive over to JFK that often, and the people out on the Island usually won't go over to Newark, but still - there is absolutely nothing "innovative" about combining these three airports (and, while we're at it, let's talk about Islip, Stewart and Westchester) for comparison purposes. Indeed, I don't see any other representative way.

Quoting Vega (Reply 20):
Also, as we all know, Airport O&D and Catchment size is more typically used to determine potential route viability for airlines.

And again, if we're talking about catchment area size, then it is only logical to combine the statistics of some airports - like those in South Florida, those in New York, those in Houston, those in Dallas/Fort Worth, those in L.A. (though definitely not Ontario for the reasons others have already outlined), etc.


User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 12405 times:

Wow, I'm surprised to see Dallas is bigger than Houston! With all the international airlines at IAH and hardly any at DFW makes you wonder what's going on with these cities and why?

UAL


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11526 posts, RR: 61
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 12385 times:



Quoting UAL747 (Reply 23):
Wow, I'm surprised to see Dallas is bigger than Houston!

It's important to remember that the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex is significantly larger than Houston. Depending on which numbers are used, the Metroplex population is estimated by some counts to be anywhere between 400,000 and 700,000 (ore more) more than that of the Houston metro area. As anyone who has flown into DFW on a sunny day will no doubt attest, the Metroplex is absolutely massive - sprawling, huge, enormous. The superlatives are endless. And it keeps on growing, too.

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 23):
With all the international airlines at IAH and hardly any at DFW makes you wonder what's going on with these cities and why?

These are domestic-only numbers. The international O&D numbers for Houston, while not enough to overtake Dallas/Fort Worth overall, is probably 5-10x bigger than for Dallas/Fort Worth. Houston - because of its place as the center of the oil/gas/energy universe - generates far, far more international traffic than the Metroplex.


25 Lesismore : ONT IS a real alternative to many people living on the fringe areas of LA (i.e. Pomona) and north Orange County. Because of its size, it is also much
26 Commavia : This is, admittedly, anecdotal, as I myself do not now and have never lived in the L.A. Basin (coast or IE). But, I do know many, many people who liv
27 MSYtristar : You could easily add another few hundred thousand to MSY when you consider much of BTR's metro area population uses MSY as their airport of choice. Th
28 N1120A : That isn't the entire L.A. Basin. What Valley are you talking about. "The Valley" here in L.A. suggests the San Fernando Valley, and I don't know any
29 MAH4546 : "Innovative"? How is simply looking taking the MSAs in the United States, and then adding up the airports located within each MSA, being innovative?
30 Post contains images GatiBOSGRU : " target=_blank>http://www.eclatconsulting.com/im_pd...s.pdf Ouch...
31 MAH4546 : That wouldn't change the numbers. If somebody from BTR uses MSY, they are counted in MSY's O&D and reflected in the numbers.
32 SLCUT2777 : For SLC, you pretty much must include the entire Wasatch Front, which include the MSA regions for Ogden and Provo. As for Ski traffic sometime compar
33 Post contains images MSYtristar : Thanks for clarifying that for me. (I am now officially inserting foot in mouth)
34 Scorpy : its interesting to see where the various hubs are in regards to this... I added them below.. some might be wrong but its interesting how small the O&D
35 WorldTraveler : I'm not criticizing anyone and I don't think people on a.net do that. They do make sure that stats and facts are posted with the appropriate caveats.
36 Steeler83 : Especially CVG and MEM. I didn't think that CVG would have been that low! That's maybe 60% of that at PIT or CLE. PIT isn't a hub forf anyone anymore
37 Commavia : You missed a few: In New York, if you're going to count Delta, you have to also count AA, which is bigger in the region than Delta. In Los Angeles, L
38 SNCntry32 : No, but yes, Minnesota has a lot of fortune 500 companies nesting here. I am not familiar with the ATL area, but I am sure the same could be said. Be
39 MAH4546 : I would have to agree. Even a lot of immigration to Houston - like Houston's growing African and Venezuelan communities - is driven by oil connection
40 Scorpy : Fair point.. i was going of declared hubs.. but you're right.. Same with AA in LAX, BOS etc. I do find it intersting how there are a few hubs so low
41 MAH4546 : AA's presence at Boston nowadays is dwindling. I'd hardly even call it a focus city. CVG and MEM are perfect examples of true fortress hubs. They are
42 Scorpy : True.. even to the point that since i'm currently in DTW.. i would drive to CVG before I would take a DL RJ at such high prices.
43 Travelin man : First off, thanks MAH4546 for providing good data and and a good topic of conversation. Guys, you are grouping "LA" into one big blob, where it absolu
44 102IAHexpress : You're mostly wrong on that one. There's little to no oil business between Houston and India, Pakistan, Vietnam, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Mexi
45 0NEWAIR0 : NWA's plan works for 2 reasons: 1) connecting traffic and 2) non-competing hubs (Meaning that there is little to no competing traffic at hubs. Thus,
46 Dellatorre : Thanks guys!!!
47 Aerohottie : I wonder how a carrier would do if they were to concentrate on O&D rather than the typical hub and spoke system and link all 52 regions with all of th
48 Post contains links BOStonsox : I'm surprised that the O&D is what it is. Boston is only at #13? Considering each cities' location on the list of global cities, I would put it in the
49 Vctony : I love TUS at 52. The Tucson MSA is the 52nd largest in the US and the numbers correlate quite well. Of course, a LOT of TUS O/D traffic uses PHX and
50 MAH4546 : It might seem like it, but there aren't. Plus, four of Boston's most important O&D markets - DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, and New York City - see lot
51 Post contains images Caljn : You're joking, right? I don't have figures but I believe Orlando and Las Vegas are the #1 and #2 tourist destinatons within the US...in addition to t
52 Post contains images GatiBOSGRU : I think he meant in general, not only for tourism. Boston is a very big tourist destination as well, not saying it matches LAS or MCO, But we also ha
53 BOStonsox : No, of course it isn't. But if I had to guess which cities had the highest O&D, that is how I would do it. Although when you factor in trains, cars,
54 MAH4546 : It's not 1:1. Leisure travelers account for the majority of flyers, hence one reason why coach cabins are bigger, or why airlines send high-density c
55 Post contains links and images Rampart : All in all, interesting data. Thanks! I agree. In this case, MAH4546 is using factual data within a quite commonly used differentiation of metro areas
56 N1120A : There is good reason to extend the Los Angeles metro to include all of Ventura County, as it is also centered economically on Los Angeles. As far as
57 MAH4546 : It does combine some, but some, IMO, it takes too far (i.e. "Boston-Providence"), while other cities don't belong to any CSA whatsoever (i.e. Tampa,
58 TxAgKuwait : Mah: Thanks for the data. It looked right on the money to me. I'd be interested in knowing if that information was broken down by carrier....I play wi
59 DTWAGENT : I just read the ATL was the #1 airport in the USA and the World for total movements/pass. So I find it hard to believe that they are at number 9. As f
60 TxAgKuwait : Believe it. I know you've heard the old saying "if you're flying Delta. the road to hades will require a connection in Atlanta." Having flown thru th
61 Post contains images LAXdude1023 : Well DFW is a larger metro area than the Houston area, however this is only domestic traffic. Houston would be the larger for international traffic.
62 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : Many thanks for this data-- course, a real gem would be int'l O&D numbers..... think yer up to the task Markster? I'd say moreso for tourists as oppos
63 Rampart : Like others have said, the classifications at any scale are imperfect. I do have friends from south of Boston, easilty within their MSA, who prefer t
64 DesertJets : Even though the point has been discussed and moved on from I do have a question/comment about some of the confusion as to why the O&D numbers are so b
65 EXAAUADL : From these O&Ds I'd say CLT is at risk of losings its hub status....STL is nearly 2m larger than CLT in OD but significantly less busy. As well RDU is
66 EXAAUADL : Of course MEM and CVG are in big trouble and clearly would be eliminated with a NW/DL merger
67 EXAAUADL : I read that MSP has more fortune 500 companeis than any other US city except NYC
68 FlyPNS1 : Depends on the nature of that hub. In the case of ATL, I would agree that having the big DL/FL hubs stimulates traffic because the competition betwee
69 LAXdude1023 : To a certain degree yes, but I think these markets tend to stand on their own as well. Granted that the majority of people traveling to these cities
70 N1120A : Some parts might, but I think you would have to go at least as far as Barstow for that to be true. I was talking more about eastern Riverside County.
71 Post contains links Skibum9 : There is absolutely no coorelation between MSA and O&D. For example, the Cincinnati MSA is now the 24th largest in the country, yet O&D is the 50th.
72 Phollingsworth : Pricing and relatively close airports that are in other MSAs. For a lot of folks in the Cincinnati MSA DAY is not much further away from them than CV
73 AAJFKSJUBKLYN : 1) New York City - 62.6M 2) Los Angeles - 48.4M 3) Chicago - 41.3M 4) Miami - 32.8M 8) Dallas - 26.9M Looks a lot like AA's Hub and Focus City List. S
74 Rampart : Agreed. It is a huge county. Similar to Mass. + Conn. + RI in area! Ah, got it. I can see parts of them gravitating south. -Rampart
75 Post contains links SNCntry32 : http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2007/states/MN.html 34 500 companies, a lot more if we did 1000 companies.
76 Joeman : According to the article cited, the 15 county Cincinnati metro region including 7 counties in Kentucky has now exceeded the 3 county measurement of C
77 Steeler83 : I guess we can say the same about US at PIT. US was the most expensive airline in the industry at one point, and their fares were rediculous out of P
78 Commavia : The link you provided, to the 2007 FORTUNE 500, does not show Minnesota, or Minneapolis/St. Paul, at the top for Fortune 500 headquarters. Not even c
79 SNCntry32 : I never said we were the top. I said we had a lot here but we are nowhere near the top.
80 Rampart : Pretty impressive given the size of their metro area and competing cities regionally. They're overperforming, ranked 6 in headquarters for a metro ar
81 Post contains images LAXdude1023 : My beloved Los Angeles isnt up there huh? Not surprising, LA isnt a cheap place to do business.
82 B752OS : Of course Atlanta is high, when you consider that ATL is the only airport with decent air service within a 4 hour ride radius from Atlanta where PHL
83 Travelin man : Well, the LA-area has 22 Fortune 500 headquarters (since I believe that list had D/FW as a single line item, I am assuming they are grouping by metro
84 N1120A : One, as WorldTraveler pointed out, the list was incorrect. Two, the expense of doing business here is overrated. If California were so business unfri
85 LAXdude1023 : I thought it might not be. I would think LA would at least be in the top 5.
86 Commavia : The list was based solely on the top cities' headquarters counts added together. I did not look beyond the 'top cities' list, which apparently shows t
87 N1120A : That all depends. It is much cheaper to get a lot of goods into and out of Los Angeles than Texas or Georgia.
88 LAXdude1023 : Outside of LA, is the rest of the list correct?
89 Commavia : I believe so, as I don't think there are that many other major metro areas that were split up on the list, but I could be mistaken.
90 Bobnwa : How did we know that when we looked at that great list by MAH4546 that a certain person would not like it because it did not show a certain city in t
91 Incitatus : The role energy plays is seasonal and not necessarily regular. I can't tell about Houston 30 years ago, but Houston today is not the same as even a c
92 Post contains links Miller22 : A much more detailed list of domestic O&D traffic by airport is available at: http://paxdata.airlineempires.net Shows O&D data for any city in the US
93 SESGDL : What you didn't include in the list is the companies based in those metro areas. How can you combine Dallas and Fort Worth but not Minneapolis and St
94 CLE757 : With the new flights CO is adding, CLE should move past PIT and higher.
95 Steeler83 : It should, even if WN adds more flights at PIT in the future. Hopefully we'll hear something soon about what WN is doing with PIT...
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