HummingBird From Jamaica, joined Mar 2007, 2897 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 13084 times:
Abu Dhabi's Etihad Airways plans to order between 50 and 100 jetliners this summer, an executive said on Wednesday, setting up what could be one of the year's big battles between jetmakers Airbus and Boeing.
Etihad to order up to 100 jetliners this summer
Etihad plans to purchase up to 100 aircraft this summer, Ebner said.Abu Dhabi's Etihad Airways plans to order between 50 and 100 jetliners this summer, an executive said on Wednesday, setting up what could be one of the year's big battles between jetmakers Airbus and Boeing.
The purchases could include a repeat order for the Airbus A380 superjumbo, the world's largest passenger jet, four of which are already due to join the Etihad fleet in 2013.
The airline, owned by the Abu Dhabi government, is seeking to expand its network in the Middle East and to nations including India to compete with regional giants Emirates and Qatar Airways.
Francis Ebner, director general for Etihad's operations in France, told a media briefing on the Gulf airline industry that the airline would order planes in all three main categories.
These are the very large A380, which seats 525 people, or the slightly smaller Boeing 747-8; the mid-sized Boeing 787 Dreamliner or the Airbus A350; and the single-aisle Airbus A320 or Boeing 737.
Aviation demand is predicted to dip in 2008 after a record 2007 but the Gulf has been a surprisingly steady source of demand for passenger jets alongside Asian low-cost carriers.
"We will order 50 planes this summer for delivery in 2013," Ebner said, adding afterwards that the total order could rise to 100 aircraft including all three categories.
Etihad said last year it was evaluating the A350 against the Boeing 787. An order of 50 planes in this category would be worth around $10 billion.
Etihad, the youngest of the major Gulf airlines, operates five wide-body Boeing 777-300ERs and 28 Airbus aircraft including wide-body A330s and A340s.
It already plans to boost its fleet to 50 planes serving 60 destinations by 2010, Ebner said.
Dubai-based Emirates, the A380 plane's largest customer, said deliveries are running on schedule after two years of production delays.
"The deliveries are due to be on time and in some cases even a few weeks early," Jean-Luc Grillet, head of Emirates operations in France and Benelux, told the same media event.
The ability of European planemaker Airbus to stick to its revised schedule of 13 A380 deliveries in total this year is seen as one of the factors driving the stock price of parent EADS.
Airbus has said delivering the plane on time is one of its top priorities for 2008.
Emirates will receive two A380s in August, another two later in 2008 and one at the beginning of next year, Grillet said.
The A380 went into service with Singapore Airlines in October 2007.
Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 6839 posts, RR: 5 Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 13060 times:
Quoting HummingBird (Thread starter): These are the very large A380, which seats 525 people, or the slightly smaller Boeing 747-8; the mid-sized Boeing 787 Dreamliner or the Airbus A350; and the single-aisle Airbus A320 or Boeing 737.
So they are not evaluating more 77Ws that is interesting to know.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
Stylo777 From Turkey, joined Feb 2006, 2874 posts, RR: 12 Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 12921 times:
this order could also include smaller jetliners such as the A320-family. currently they're operating 5 or 6 of them if I'm not mistaken.
in my eyes the A332 was and is the best aircraft they have which perfectly suites into their fleet and routenetwork (except the ULH flights to US and AU)
BHXFAOTIPYYC From Portugal, joined Jun 2005, 1644 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 12665 times:
Good luck to them. Everyone we have sent on them lately says how excellent they are. A live person even answers the phone when you ring them instead of the usual press 1,2, 3 etc. Even that small touch impressed me.
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26966 posts, RR: 83 Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 12142 times:
Quoting Columba (Reply 1): So they are not evaluating more 77Ws that is interesting to know.
If true, it means they can't be behind the 10 77W + 35 789 UFO order. But they might not have considered the 77W an actual RFP and therefore wouldn't specifically mention it as an option...
Ramzi From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 535 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 10050 times:
I often wonder how many aircraft can fit in the skies over the gulf. Within ten years at the most Emirates should have close to 200 planes. Etihad probably around 150. Within a year a new LCC will be launched by the State of Dubai and I doubt it will have a small fleet. RAK airways will definitely grow. Al Arabia has pretty big orders, if I remember correctly they should be operating something in the range of 80 aircraft by 2012. This is the UAE alone, and this is not counting all the other airlines coming into the four airports operated by these airlines.
Add to that Kuwait with two airlines, Qatar with a major airline, the only 5-star in the Middle East, Bahrain with two airlines and a DHL hub, Oman with its flag carrier, Saudi with already three airlines and a possibility for many more. Even RJ which is a bit far from the Gulf.
Of course they won't literally fill the skies, but some twenty years ago the total amount of aircraft in the Gulf, i imagine, did not amount to the fleet of just one of the current operators, say QR. Impressive and somehow scary.
And good luck to Etihad, I look forward to flying with them at some point.
There will come a time when you believe everything is finished - that will be the beginning.
Manfredj From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1132 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 9721 times:
I think availability of delivery slots and timing will be a major factor in determining which airplanes they will go with.
For example, if they need VLA's before 2012, they would probably opt for the 748. If they can wait longer, maybe they will go with the A380.
Ba777pilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 49 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 9262 times:
Quoting Ramzi (Reply 8): Of course they won't literally fill the skies
but they will fill the gates and parkings slots available within the middle east airports.
Ramzi From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 535 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9101 times:
Quoting Ba777pilot (Reply 10): but they will fill the gates and parkings slots available within the middle east airports.
I do not at all doubt they will build sufficient structures as fast as the aircraft are being developed. In the case of Dubai, Jebel Ali insures the future. All other Gulf countries are upgrading their current airports if they haven't recently or are building new ones or at the latest planning to do so. They are trying to keep up with this boom, but whether they can, only time will tell. Pretty stunning growth all in all.
There will come a time when you believe everything is finished - that will be the beginning.
Pylon101 From Russia, joined Feb 2008, 1391 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9077 times:
It's quite obvious that the Gulf airlines have a long-term strategy.
This strategy was worked out by tons of Western analysts who used to work for them.
They did a great job on history of airlines which had worked exclusively on international routes: SwissAir, Sabena, Singapore Airlines and others.
They determined why some of them went bankrupt and other prospered.
They perfectly know that EU and US airlines - burdened with agreements with their unions, high salaries, requirements of thousands of laws and orders of executive bodies - will not be able to compete with the Gulf airlines.
Step by step they are going to offer products that traditional US-EU airlines simply can't afford.
No need to to look for skies over the Arabian desert. Just make a look up there being near Heathrow or Atlanta.
We are living in a new world.
We can like or dislike this future. But eventually - after some hesitation - we all will choose better service provided by airlines with newer aircraft and the staff hired in Europe and the United States.
I totally agree, it is the capacity and speed of this growth that impresses me.
As for being scared, I think the chances of complications are increasing with time, there may never be any, but when an airport operated 10 aircraft a day and now operates hundreds it is a risk.
I am seriously considering pursuing and aviation career in the Gulf over any other career any other place, I love it this much.
There will come a time when you believe everything is finished - that will be the beginning.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26966 posts, RR: 83 Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 8521 times:
Quoting Pylon101 (Reply 12): It's quite obvious that the Gulf airlines have a long-term strategy.
Interesting analysis and certainly more believable then the claims that it's all just oil-revenue driven hubris.
CRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2081 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 8345 times:
Are they confident that they will find enough crews to fly them? I have seen a few threads here lately discussing how many crews are leaving the Gulf area carriers, some even before their contracts expire...
Pylon101 From Russia, joined Feb 2008, 1391 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7778 times:
The teach enough pilots is just a matter of time after all.
It can be done before all those orders are delivered.
As to salaries and contracts: it's all can be ajusted.
For example: if one works in the United States on B-1 working visa (as I did a decade ago) - he/she can freely decide where income tax to be paid: in the country where the preson works OR in the country where he/she permanently lives.
Clear thing that income tax in Dubai is lower than in Norway (can it be anywhere higher than in Norway???).
We used to say: legacy airlines in respect of AA or Delta. But we seem to forget that there were only only 2 American airlines which could be called LEGACY AIRLINES in full sense: TWA and PanAm.
Such twist of mind may happen in this case.
Tullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1158 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7647 times:
The Middle East airlines such as Emirates and Etihad do have a plan and in many respects it is a direct copy of the strategy employed by SQ 20 years. This is built on 4 key tenets:
- Acquire and maintain a modern up-to-date fleet with planes retired after about 10 years
- Exploit brilliantly located hubs. (In many respects Dubai and Abu Dhabi are even better locvated than SIN.)
- Offer superior in-cabin and on-ground service
- As well as up to date fleet, make sure the airports themselves are also seen as worled-leading.
Just like SQ, the Middle East governments encourage the success of the airline. This does not mean protectionism with all airlines mentioned competing vigorously with no restrictions on access by other airlines to their hubs..
RJAF From Jordan, joined Jan 2007, 301 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7575 times:
Quoting Ramzi (Reply 8): often wonder how many aircraft can fit in the skies over the gulf
Well said Ramzi..
This is becoming too much of a me too business and competition between the Joneses (like Bahrain Air , Air Arabia, Oman Air, RAK Air etc...) Jeez..how are they going to fill all those seats..in normal circumstances one would say 'something's got to give' but hold on here, there is plenty of surplus oil money going around and most of these airlines will keep on living on petro cash injections! What's next..Air Ajman?
Pylon101 From Russia, joined Feb 2008, 1391 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7530 times:
Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 17): Quoting Pylon101 (Reply 16):
there were only only 2 American airlines which could be called LEGACY AIRLINES in full sense: TWA and PanAm.
Windowplease From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 72 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6314 times:
I think the only thing they really have to worry about is their own neighbourhood. How many Hamburg housewives are going to want to switch planes in Dubai on their way to Bangkok if there is a confrontation with Iran? It ain't that far away.... The after-effects could last for years in term of the region's image.
Of course, western-based leisure travellers are not QR/EY/EK's only market. Indian and Pakistani VFR traffic from the UK and other places is also important. They're probably a bit more resilient.
But a confrontation in the Gulf would also badly hit O&D from Dubai etc - both leisure and business.
ER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2249 posts, RR: 8 Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5595 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 7): If true, it means they can't be behind the 10 77W + 35 789 UFO order
Maybe they're ordering 789's and 737's. Remember that Hamlet hinted the 737/777/787 orders were from two customers. He didn't say what aircraft types were ordered by what customer. Of course EY might not be behind any of them since the article says they are buying this summer. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.....
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26966 posts, RR: 83 Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5071 times:
Quoting ER757 (Reply 23): Remember that Hamlet hinted the 737/777/787 orders were from two customers. He didn't say what aircraft types were ordered by what customer.
True, but I interpreted what he said as saying the 77W and 789 order was from the same customer and the 738 order was separate. But I might be mis-interpreting what he said.
25 Lightsaber: Now the question, is it wise to expand so fast during a projected downturn? Or are the slots available at prices today that make the purchases low ri
26 Astuteman: You might want to look at the flight path for routes like LHR-SIN, if that concerns you. They spend a fair amount of time over Iran and Afghanistan,
27 Cornish: That is eactly what is going to happen. The current expansion, due to open in thenext mont hor so is just temporary. The main new terminal is to be b
28 Columba: I doubt that they would go for the 737. They have A320 and will likely increase their fleet rather than changing aircraft types.
29 ConcordeBoy: A better question would be: how many 'Hamburg housewives' roll with the 5-digit-plus fares that would cause an airline to actually give a damn about
30 Lightsaber: Thank you. I'm amazed at the expansion in the middle east. One day they will get ahead of demand; but I could only dream about that happening at LAX,
31 Cornish: tell me about it. Keeps me very busy. Off to AUH next week actually. Shame the existing terminal will go. It's totally inadequate but totally unlike
32 Ramzi: Thank you! And who knows, maybe Fujaira Airlines is next, operating out of an airport with not one single scheduled passenger service :P Can you plea
33 Behramjee: [quote=HummingBird,reply=0]These are the very large A380, which seats 525 people, or the slightly smaller Boeing 747-8; the mid-sized Boeing 787 Dream
34 Cloudyapple: I agree but it seems like there is one big flaw in that strategy - it's conveniently omitted the fact that their competitors have exactly the same st
35 Pylon101: I still wouldn't consider Etihad as a competitor to Emirates. Abu Dhabi is the main emirate in UAE, and its emire is always the head of the country. I
36 Cloudyapple: Before you say they are not competitors, I suggest you take a look at where they fly to. How many destinations Etihad fly to aren't also Emirate dest
37 Thorben: My guess for EY: 4 x A388 16 x A359 20 x 788 60 x A32x
38 XA744: Abu Dhabi and Dubai being too close to each other... ... What´s the collision going to be look like ??? Best regards BTW... I love Etihad !!!...
39 Lightsaber: The two Emirates have had numerous disputes in the past. They cannot even agree on a new highway passing through to Qatar (underwater to bypass Saudi
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