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AVE España Madrid-Barcelona  
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19420 posts, RR: 58
Posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6574 times:

So I did this in Spain (the video gets good at about 21 seconds):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-On0SsytHHY&NR=1)

And it gets you from Madrid to Barcelona non-stop in 2:30 (published 2:41, but it's always 10 minutes early). It leaves exactly as scheduled. It arrives within 15 minutes of when scheduled or your ticket is free. I arrived at Madrid Atocha station 15 minutes prior to departure. There is no metal detector (X-ray bags, that's all). There is no "fasten your seatbelts." There is no "seatbacks and traytables in the full upright and locked position." There is no "please turn off and stow all electronic devices." The train simply pulls out of the station, gets onto the relevant track, and then starts to accelerate to 300kph. It feels like floating on air, but less turbulence. Big grin And then we got to Barcelona Sants station and was in my hotel room 20 minutes later. No baggage claim. I *LOVED* it.  cloudnine 

And IB just *HATES* it because it's taken over half their business!  eyepopping 

I think we need these in the U.S. The Acela bull-honkey is not up to snuff at all.

66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6533 times:

What kind of discussion are you try to open with this thread?

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
And IB just *HATES* it because it's taken over half their business!

Please give us references to back up your statement........

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
I think we need these in the U.S

What would happen to routes like LAX-SNA, LAX-SBA or TOL-DTW?



744,742,741,772,773,762,732,735,738,752,727,717,DC10,DC9,M82,M87,319,320,321,343,346,L1011,CRJ2,CRJ9,E190,ATR42,DSH8,
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 6511 times:

Why do you think there are no more flights between FRA and CGN?  Wink ... the reason is exactly the same train - the ICE3.

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 1):
Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
And IB just *HATES* it because it's taken over half their business!

Please give us references to back up your statement........

I doubt the "half their business" part as well - but I doubt that IB particularly enjoys having this train as new competition on MAD-BCN.



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineTrinxat From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 6494 times:



Quoting Leskova (Reply 2):
I doubt the "half their business" part as well - but I doubt that IB particularly enjoys having this train as new competition on MAD-BCN.

Well, it is no secret that the "puente aereo" has been a milking cow for IB since it started, in recent years a bit less due to competition. As a matter of fact, as soon as the train link opened, they started offering x2 FF points in the puente aereo.

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
There is no "fasten your seatbelts." There is no "seatbacks and traytables in the full upright and locked position." There is no "please turn off and stow all electronic devices."

Provided you are able to decypher the kind of language most spanish F/A use when making announcements. Is it so difficult to speak slowly and clearly?


User currently offlineRAFVC10 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1980 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 6424 times:
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Quoting Trinxat (Reply 3):
Well, it is no secret that the "puente aereo" has been a milking cow for IB since it started, in recent years a bit less due to competition. As a matter of fact, as soon as the train link opened, they started offering x2 FF points in the puente aereo.

Now, if you purchase 5 "Puente Aereo" no matter the class booked (Business or Tourist) and used, Iberia gives you totally free a 6th "Puente Aereo" without to pay anything.

But I'm agree with many of my colleagues about the advantages of AVE high speed train:

- Only to be in the station 10 minutes prior the departure.
- Use of any electronic device without restriction
- Free meals and beverages in "Preferente" and "Club" classes
- Free newspaper
- Film onboard
- Arrival at the city center

And plane...

- To be in the airport 60 minutes prior the departure
- Restricted use of electronic devices (no internet connexion, no mobile phones)
- Free meals, newspaper and beverages only in Business Class. In Tourist, meals and beverages under payment.
- No entertainment onboard
- Arrival at the surround of the main cities

Counting the time prior the departure, flight time, landing and take off and the way from airport, the time used to arrive from Barcelona to Madrid is the same than the "puente aereo".

I see many advantages and I use it a lot.

Don't you?

Regards,

Gerard



El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19420 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 6326 times:

The "half the business" came from a news report I saw. I don't recall which one. But with trains about every hour, each one capable of holding about twice as many people as an A320, and each one running full...

IB *hates* it.

The discussion, I suppose, is whether such services will mean the end of short-range flights in these markets. Under no circumstances would I ever fly MAD-BCN unless I was connecting through either airport. And if they had a single-seat ride from Barajas to Atocha in Madrid, even the connection would be inferior to the train.

Now, the only hope the airlines have of competing is to figure out how to make it so that people can get to the airport a half hour before the flight like they used to.

And Gerard, you forgot the most important point. RENFE will refund your ticket if the train arrives at your destination over 15 minutes late. Just try to get that kind of a promise out of an airline. Yup folks, the trains run on-time in Spain.

My mother, born and raised in Extremadura in Franco's time, is amazed.

[Edited 2008-03-28 07:27:42]

User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19420 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 6260 times:



Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 1):

What would happen to routes like LAX-SNA, LAX-SBA or TOL-DTW?

Unfortunately, the proposed CA High-Speed Rail (which I think will open on April 31, 2020  Wink ) won't pass through SBA. I wish it did because my mom lives there.

Unfortunately, America has decided that it would rather spend money on 1) cars 2) a "war" in Iraq that has no definable objective 3) tax refunds and stimulus packages than on real infrastructure. This, is, incidentally, why Hurricane Katrina, which should have caused a few hundred million dollars' worth of damage, instead completely destroyed New Orleans: infrastructure.

Thus, it's a moot point. There will not be true high-speed rail (or really any form of rail that can compare in any way with European or Asian systems) in the U.S. in my lifetime and probably not in my childrens' or grandchildrens', either. The age of Great American infrastructure construction is over. It's a shame, too, because Europe has already demonstrated that with current technology it can outcompete just about all routes under 700km.

If you can do MAD-BCN in 2.5 hours total with 99.999% on-time performance and without the hassle for half the price of an airline ticket, why would you ever fly? You wouldn't. Same for LHR-CDG. 2 hours on EUROSTAR.


User currently offlineCaribillo From Spain, joined Jul 2006, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 6240 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
Unfortunately, the proposed CA High-Speed Rail (which I think will open on April 31, 2020 ) won't pass through SBA. I wish it did because my mom lives there.

At that date there will be 10000km of HSR (+300km/h) in Spain.


http://www.adif.es/infraestructura/index.html


The future of the short range air transport here is a little bit dark.



Red, orange and yellow...with a big crown!
User currently offlineAcelanzarote From Spain, joined Nov 2005, 821 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 6227 times:

if the trains are running every hour or so and are full, are there any plans to go every 30 minutes,
do they have the extra trains or are any on order?

Where is the next high speed line being built after BCN-MAD?

Also anyone know what affect the train is having on Air Europa and Spanair?



from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
User currently offlineCaribillo From Spain, joined Jul 2006, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 6213 times:



Quoting Acelanzarote (Reply 8):
do they have the extra trains or are any on order?

RENFE expects to recive the last V103 units in 2008 and the new V104 from this year.



Red, orange and yellow...with a big crown!
User currently offlineMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 869 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 6216 times:

The difference between the AVE and Iberia service is that AVE was built with moneys from European taxpayers in the form of European parity credits.

I could care less for AVE or Renfe, the Spanish need to stop patting themselves on the back for all these proyects Europe is building for them. If I were a European taxpayer I would be angry at the black hole that is all this rail construction in countries that do not contribute to Europe in tax payments but suck the life out of the European budget.



"Like all great travelers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen."
User currently offlineCaribillo From Spain, joined Jul 2006, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 6191 times:

Quoting MIA (Reply 10):
If I were a European taxpayer I would be angry at the black hole that is all this rail construction in countries that do not contribute to Europe in tax payments but suck the life out of the European budget.

Please, take note:

1.- Belgium, Ireland, Luxembourg, Portugal, Finland and Greece suck the life to Europe aswell. They are "net cost countries". Did you know it?
2.- Now that the easter Europe is developed, we will have to "give the live" or be sucked by the western new European countries.
3.- Developing new areas means developing your own bussiness (in european terms). You will have more consumers for your expensive products. It is a kind of "Marshall Plan"
3.- You are not european, AFAIK, so don´t be angry.
4.- Till now, things are going well here in Europe, so we are not in big mistake IMHO.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
If you can do MAD-BCN in 2.5 hours total with 99.999% on-time performance and without the hassle for half the price of an airline ticket, why would you ever fly? You wouldn't. Same for LHR-CDG. 2 hours on EUROSTAR.

That is in the EU's mind when they bet for HSR.

[Edited 2008-03-28 09:23:13]


Red, orange and yellow...with a big crown!
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19420 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 6179 times:



Quoting MIA (Reply 10):
I could care less for AVE or Renfe, the Spanish need to stop patting themselves on the back for all these proyects Europe is building for them. If I were a European taxpayer I would be angry at the black hole that is all this rail construction in countries that do not contribute to Europe in tax payments but suck the life out of the European budget.

This is why it won't happen in the U.S. Never mind that it costs half as much to take the train as it does to fly. Never mind the fact that carbon emissions for the train could be made zero depending on the source of energy. Never mind that it's faster, easier, and more reliable.

Americans are so opposed to taxes that no new infrastructure can be built and the existing infrastructure cannot be maintained.


User currently offlineUPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 6114 times:



Quoting MIA (Reply 10):
If I were a European taxpayer I would be angry at the black hole that is all this rail construction in countries that do not contribute to Europe in tax payments but suck the life out of the European budget.

Don't get it personal......... but if I were a US taxpayer I would be "very" angry at the black hole that is a war in a country on the other side of the world that do not contribute at all to my own country development.....



744,742,741,772,773,762,732,735,738,752,727,717,DC10,DC9,M82,M87,319,320,321,343,346,L1011,CRJ2,CRJ9,E190,ATR42,DSH8,
User currently offlineRojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2443 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 6095 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
Now, the only hope the airlines have of competing is to figure out how to make it so that people can get to the airport a half hour before the flight like they used to.

Actually, MAD is one of the best located airports in Europe (proximity to the city) and has an efficient subway system to gets you there. Last week it took me 35 minutes to get to T4 from Madrid downtown (my home is in LISTA subway station). Therefore, if I print my boarding pass with Vueling for a flight to Barcelona, it will take me 35 minutes by subway + 30 minutes to pass security and walk to the gate... I have never been able to do that in LGA, JFK, DCA, PHL, etc. This is why I do like MAD as an airport serving a big city quite well, but you are right, MAD-BCN puente aereo will get a lot of competition from AVE, since business travellers can use cell phones and internet when using the AVE and not on the puente aereo flights...

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
Thus, it's a moot point. There will not be true high-speed rail (or really any form of rail that can compare in any way with European or Asian systems) in the U.S. in my lifetime and probably not in my childrens' or grandchildrens', either. The age of Great American infrastructure construction is over. It's a shame, too, because Europe has already demonstrated that with current technology it can outcompete just about all routes under 700km.

You have to consider the fact that most European cities were built with great subway systems and sidewalks so people don't have to use cars while moving throughout the city. In the US, only New York, Boston, Washington among a few others were built like that, so after taking a train it will be difficult to use public transportation. America relies heavily in cars and airplanes due to the size of its territory. I used to live in Ohio and it would be very expensive to build a train system that links the major cities of the state, don't even think of linking Ohio with major US cities...


User currently offlineBuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2873 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 6050 times:



Quoting Acelanzarote (Reply 8):

Where is the next high speed line being built after BCN-MAD?

Madrid-Segovia just opened, so did Bobadilla-Malaga. Next, if I am not mistaken, will be Barcelona-Perpignan in France, which will then link to the French high-speed line near Nimes and on to Paris from there. Or the next one will be Madrid-Valencia/Alicante.

But far more projects in Spain are being planned. Madrid-Badajoz-Lisbon, the Bilbao-San Sebastian-Vitoria Y-shaped line,

Quoting MIA (Reply 10):
If I were a European taxpayer I would be angry at the black hole that is all this rail construction in countries that do not contribute to Europe in tax payments but suck the life out of the European budget.

The biggest black hole that the European taxpayer should worry about is the French agricultural sector. But better not take the thread there.

Quoting Rojo (Reply 14):
Actually, MAD is one of the best located airports in Europe (proximity to the city) and has an efficient subway system to gets you there.

It isnt that close in my humble opinion, but the metro is OK, yes. Pity though that the links to the rest of Spain are pretty poor and there are no long distance trains as in AMS, FRA, CDG, ZRH etc. I know that will get better once the Cercanias link opens, but that would still require a change in Chamartin or Atocha.



I scratch my head, therefore I am.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19420 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 6037 times:



Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 13):
Don't get it personal......... but if I were a US taxpayer I would be "very" angry at the black hole that is a war in a country on the other side of the world that do not contribute at all to my own country development.....

I'm a US taxpayer and I'm very angry. We could have had our HSR ten times over for the cost of this idiotic "war." And it could even have been built by now.


User currently offlineIberia340600 From Spain, joined Oct 2003, 804 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 5997 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
And IB just *HATES* it because it's taken over half their business!

This is nonsense. Yes, I am sure it has reduced IB's passenger count but definitely not by half. 20-30% at the most. I for one dont plan on taking the AVE because it is not convenient for me. I live about 1/2 hour outside of Barcelona and when I have to travel to Madrid, our offices are between Barajas and Madrid. I usually drive to BCN airport and then take a taxi to the office and vice-versa. Barcelona Sants parking is not prepared for an influx of more cars and neither is Atocha.

If I have to take a 6am train from Sants...I would have to leave my house earlier and would never make it to the office at 9am from Atocha with rush hour traffic. Like me there are plenty of people.

If you live in Madrid or Barcelona center and are going to Madrid or Barcelona center...the AVE makes sense...if not...it really isnt anymore convenient than the "puente aereo".



Visca Barça!!
User currently offlineMayaviaERJ190 From Mexico, joined Jan 2008, 300 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 5960 times:

The AVE may be wonderful, even if I haven't been on MAD-BCN yet, I already miss the Talgo.

IB might not be very happy, but on the other hand, I believe this new HSR has given airlines a whole new possibility, get people non-stop from any other place to MAD or BCN.

This has already happened from Mexico, with AM's and IB's brand new non-stops MEX-BCN.



My other plane is an A380.
User currently offlineR2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2589 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 5927 times:



Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 1):
What kind of discussion are you try to open with this thread?

Well, given his statements, one possible area of discussion would be... CONVENIENCE. Let's face it guys, in the past two decades, and specially since 9/11, air travel has increasingly become a nightmare. Arriving hours early at the congested airport, checking in, endless and highly annoying security checks that make you start the day in a bad mood, departing late, arriving late, waiting for your luggage (if it's not lost)... compare that to the service on AVE.

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
And IB just *HATES* it because it's taken over half their business!

Don't know where you've gotten that from, but it's far too early to say, it's been in service just a few weeks and there aren't enough numbers available. Wait 1 year, then we'll see. What you may have read is that

Quoting Acelanzarote (Reply 8):
Also anyone know what affect the train is having on Air Europa and Spanair?

It will probably kill their shuttle service, with only IB remaining. UX and JK would keep some flights for connections, but that's all.

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 15):
Barcelona-Perpignan in France, which will then link to the French high-speed line near Nimes and on to Paris from there.

Unfortunately, the French government is in no hurry to develop infrastructure here in the south (it's too far away from Paris). They're really taking their time to build the line from Perpignan onwards (on the Spanish side, you see a huge construction site, on the French side, there's nothing yet).

Quoting Rojo (Reply 14):
Actually, MAD is one of the best located airports in Europe (proximity to the city) and has an efficient subway system to gets you there.

That is true, airport connections are not at fault here. MAD is quite convenient. It's all the airport hassle (described above) that's the problem. Even if MAD is an uncongested airport.

Quoting MayaviaERJ190 (Reply 18):
this new HSR has given airlines a whole new possibility

Yes... ifff there were a HSR station at MAD and BCN like in CDG, that would be a win-win for everybody! I know it is planned... but not for when.


User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 5921 times:



Quoting MIA (Reply 10):
AVE was built with moneys from European taxpayers

Only partly. The other part comes from the Spanish tax payers, which btw, also contribute to the European Union budget.

Quoting MIA (Reply 10):
countries that do not contribute to Europe in tax payments

Excuse me?

I guess you need to check your sources again before making such an ignorant comment.

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 15):
The biggest black hole that the European taxpayer should worry about is the French agricultural sector.

Right.

The "British Cheque" could also be mentioned, but as you said, let's not take the thread there.

Quoting Iberia340600 (Reply 17):
If you live in Madrid or Barcelona center and are going to Madrid or Barcelona center...the AVE makes sense...if not...it really isnt anymore convenient than the "puente aereo".

The latter being my case.

btw...¡¡Cuánto me alegro de verte de nuevo por aquí!!.  Big grin

Quoting MayaviaERJ190 (Reply 18):
I already miss the Talgo.

Me too. I was born and raised in Zaragoza and my house was right accross the street from the old "El Portillo" Train Station.

My friends and I used to go quite often to the station to see the Talgos (the old Talgo III and the Talgo Pendular) coming and going to/from Madrid and Barcelona. I used to travel on them very frequently as well.


Earlier this week I read on the newspaper that RENFE was talking to airlines about the possibility of offering "combined" tickets for people that wanted to mix both means of transport in a round trip.

I like the idea.

Saludos



¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6126 posts, RR: 34
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 5913 times:



Quoting Iberia340600 (Reply 17):
If you live in Madrid or Barcelona center and are going to Madrid or Barcelona center...the AVE makes sense...if not...it really isnt anymore convenient than the "puente aereo".

Sorry, but if you live in Barcelona... or to the North... or East... or even South depending on distance, it is more convenient to take Cercanias to Sants to catch the AVE.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineAisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 762 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 5846 times:



Quoting R2rho (Reply 19):
Quoting Acelanzarote (Reply 8):
Also anyone know what affect the train is having on Air Europa and Spanair?

It will probably kill their shuttle service, with only IB remaining. UX and JK would keep some flights for connections, but that's all.

For MAD-BCN i don't know for sure because it's a huge market. But we can predict how future will be by looking into the past and studying the current situation. The AVE between Madrid and Seville was launched in 1992 and now only IB flies that route and with a quite good schedule: 8 daily

The present is for MAD-AGP. AVE was launch on the 23rd December last year and Vueling has already announced they're dropping the route. Air Europa and Renfe are in talks to establish a codeshare agreement on the route including a shuttle transport from Atocha railway station to Barajas so I guess Air Europa's plans are drop the route and keep the AGP feed at MAD via Renfe. Spanair doesn't have anything to feed....

Now as of BCN:
Air Europa may extend the codeshare onto Renfe if the AGP "test" goes well. Vueling will also have to drop the route.
Spanair does have some kind of shuttle service booking people on MAD-BCN flights and selling the remaining of the seats as shuttle service. But they will suffer from AVE and will have to reduce their 24 daily flights. And again, there's nothing to feed at either end.
On the other hand, Iberia has 43 flights any day like today:
6 internationalized flights using the satelite iat MAD and TB at BCN
6 regular flights using the main bulding at MAD and TB at BCN
And the rest are shuttle flights using the main building at MAD and TC at BCN. Some of them depart every 15 mins during hours.

IB can remove the regular flights and "codeshare" onto their own shuttle services like they already do on weekends. They can even remove the non-schengen connecting flights. They can even reduce the frequency from every 15 mins to every 20 mins for example. They have the flexibility to shrink at will. Others are not so lucky.

Worst-case scenario? the very same 8 flights they currently fly all by themselves between Madrid and Seville.


User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 5817 times:



Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 13):
Quoting MIA (Reply 10):
If I were a European taxpayer I would be angry at the black hole that is all this rail construction in countries that do not contribute to Europe in tax payments but suck the life out of the European budget.

Don't get it personal......... but if I were a US taxpayer I would be "very" angry at the black hole that is a war in a country on the other side of the world that do not contribute at all to my own country development.....

Good point. At least Spain buys Train control systems from Siemens and the ICE.

Quoting R2rho (Reply 19):
Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 15):
Barcelona-Perpignan in France, which will then link to the French high-speed line near Nimes and on to Paris from there.

Unfortunately, the French government is in no hurry to develop infrastructure here in the south (it's too far away from Paris). They're really taking their time to build the line from Perpignan onwards (on the Spanish side, you see a huge construction site, on the French side, there's nothing yet).

The border tunnel under the Pyrenees and the adjacent line from Perpigan to Figueras is supposed to be operational in 2009. The rest to Barcelona is still in doubt. You can see a lot of construction already but the most difficult part, the tunneling under Barcelona (right in front of the Sagarda Familia Cathedral) and under Girona is not startet. So the given date of inauguration in 2012 should be taken with same grain of salt.
On the French side the section from Nimes to Perpignan was never supposed to be ready in time with the Spanish side. Only a little bypass of Nimes and Montpellier was put forward, especially for freight. But I think this project also was put on hold.
The anticipated 5 hour TGV run Paris-Barcelona is still a little bit off.


User currently offlineAndaman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 5753 times:



Quoting Caribillo (Reply 11):

Please, take note:

1.- Belgium, Ireland, Luxembourg, Portugal, finland and Greece suck the life to Europe aswell. They are "net cost countries". Did you know it?

You ment suck the life FROM Europe?
Drop Finland out there. In 2006 Finland paid to EU 400 milj Euros more than got back.


25 Post contains images Planemaker : A very small quible and a minor correction but it is a temple and not a cathedral. There can only be one cathedral in a diocese... and in Barcelona i
26 Post contains links and images Thowman : What Madrid really needs is a decent non-stop rail link from Atocha to Barajas, along the lines of the Heathrow express. I don't know if there are any
27 Awthompson : I have only travelled on the Madrid - Seville AVE in 1998 but absolutely loved it! To give Iberia credit I have also flown with them a few times inclu
28 Trinxat : This is true, the equipment used on the BCN-MAD line was appointed in equal shares to Siemens (Germany), Alsthom (France) and the bombardier-Talgo co
29 DocLightning : MIA, when was the last time you were in Spain? I was just there for a month and it's not the country you're painting it to be. In fact, it's a thrivi
30 DocLightning : As per Wikipedia: "It is forecast that the AVE will substantially replace air traffic on the Barcelona - Madrid route (in the same way that the Euros
31 Sorayafaradiba : I have used the AVE between Madrid and Seville. It was a nice ride! Generally I was impressed with RENFE´s service, althought one has to admit that t
32 DocLightning : It's being built as we speak. It will be extensive when it's done.
33 JoFMO : In fact, comes the year 2010 Spain will have the longest network of high speed rail tracks. Overtaking France and Japan. Quite impressive....
34 Post contains images Bullpitt : Hi all This is a personal view but I think Spanair, Air Europa and Vueling have more to loose than IB. 1) IB is making slight changes to the Puente Ae
35 DocLightning : Does that include luggage check? AVE has no luggage check. You take your suitcase on the train and leave it in a closet area. On arrival, you grab it
36 Bullpitt : Hi all This is a nice sample. First the underground does not start until 06:00 so for this flight you'll have to drive to Atocha and park your car. to
37 MIA : Spain hasn't done anything for themselves since they sent three ships out West without hopes for them returning. Spain recieves 8 billion Euros in su
38 Post contains images Bullpitt : hi all All I can say is what a load of rubish.
39 DocLightning : MIA, in which state do you live? I wonder how much federal subsidy your state receives? 5th largest GDP in the European Union, amigo. The average Per
40 Bullpitt : HI all Just a few other facts, Spain supports hundreds of thousands of EU retired citizens that have free medical treatments in Spain. The last I hear
41 Post contains links BuyantUkhaa : Due in 2009/10: http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/madridairport/ http://www.airport-technology.com/projects/madrid/ The opening of the new C
42 Bullpitt : hi there Not really it will be longer. 10 minutes could be about right for T4 to Chanmartin but then you would have to add the Chamartin to Atocha wit
43 DocLightning : To get back to the topic: San Francisco to Los Angeles is a must-do with continuation to San Diego. New York-Boston and New York-DC need real high-spe
44 OA260 : I think its a great service. I was reading an article about this today in a travel magazine and was very impressed. The more high speed rail links tha
45 Post contains links BuyantUkhaa : Well, the railway technology article says that Barajas-Chamartin will be 5 minutes, but Chamartin-Sol will indeed be 9: http://www.fomento.es/MFOM/LA
46 Analog : What do you do with items that are forbidden if there is no baggage check? What does the x-ray look for?
47 DocLightning : There ARE no forbidden items other than things that are obviously dangerous (bombs, guns, etc.) How are you going to hijack a train? It's completely e
48 OA260 : They xray bags at Sants station for certain RENFE services I have seen them 2 weeks ago.
49 DocLightning : Yes, they do. Does anyone know what they're looking for? Weapons? Bodies?
50 OA260 : ETA bombs and incendiary devices .Guns and other firearms.
51 Mestrugo : Hmmm... bombs? Unfortunately, Spain's infrastructures are a target for Islamist terrorists, as we all sadly learned in March 11, 2004. Besides, ETA h
52 JoFMO : Why would you go by car? A Taxi is a least 10 to 15 minutes faster. You don't have to look for a free space, you don't need to walk miles back from y
53 Post contains links and images KL577 : Indeed, one of the prime reasons of EU subsidies is to improve infrastructure across the union and between member states. As you know the EU is econo
54 R2rho : Please! Do not dare to compare the London tube to the Madrid metro. MAD already has a 'Heathrow Express': the metro takes you downtown in 15-20min fo
55 OA260 : Is is possible to take the AVE from Barcelona to Camp De Tarragona ?? Also is there a link from Camp De Tarragona to the main station in Tarragona???
56 DocLightning : you have a point. The Madrid Metro to the airport is pretty convenient...if you are near Linea 8. Otherwise it's just as good as Piccadilly because y
57 BuyantUkhaa : I think you mix up a few things here. Those funds are issued to national or regional governments, who use it for the construction of new infrastructu
58 KL577 : I was reading an article on the new High Speed line between Brussels and Antwerp which is largely financed by an Australian investment bank, in addit
59 Dazeflight : I know it's off-topic but still: MIA might be a bit over the top here, but the fact is that Spain used to be the largest net recipient up until a few
60 WidebodyLover : I love AVE's services. We took it from Madrid to Sevilla. The seats are like 1st class seats in the aviation world. I'm hoping AVE will start a route
61 WidebodyLover : I think DocLightning wanted to compare AVE with Iberia. Why pay so much money flying while you can save traveling on the ground. I know MAD - BCN or B
62 Jdevora : If you want to go to a privat doctor, yes, but not in the public service, you only need to show you E111 or your European Health Card JD
63 MX-757 : Yes, it's possible to take the AVE from Barcelona to Camp de Tarragona. The other I checked the price with one week in advance for this route and in
64 R2rho : Let's cut all the "Spain got all its infrastructures from my tax money" nonsense, shall we? I could say a lot of things on here, but I want to keep th
65 OA260 : Thats great . I want to take the AVE in a few weeks when I'm there. I see they have 3 classes. Tourist/Preferente and Club. It says you get free meal
66 Trinxat : Of course is it personal, why don't you specify you work for IB? (for readers clarity sake) IB plus is really crap in terms of reward points and leve
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