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Another Air France 777 Inflight Shutdown  
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 21006 times:

.occured last friday on a flight from Paris to the Antilles .The GE powered 777 made an emergency-landing on the Açores ...


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 20945 times:

They should have kept a few more A340's as back-up...
Very few issues with the A340 other than it is less economic than a 777 - but by increasing the ticket-fare to the Antilles by 20 €/ seat/ flight,they could have offset that disadvantage.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2671 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 20862 times:

I really wonder what happens with these engines, this is really weird. And I have noticed that most incidents occur on flights to DOM-TOM


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User currently offlineDragon6172 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1202 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 20764 times:

Anyone know if all the in flight shut downs have happened on different aircraft? Any repeat gripes on one aircraft? Have they been uncommanded shut downs or precautionary shut downs by the crew?


Phrogs Phorever
User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3739 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 20635 times:

This is starting to get freaky.

AF is a big 777 operator, but I don't think any other airline is having anywhere close to the same rate of IFSD with theirs.
It has been suggested in previous similar threads that those are the only 777 that operate to places where the engines would be subjected to more dirt ingestion and 'lower quality' fuel. But still...

What I also find funny is that anywhere else in the world, all these occurences would start to attract a lot of media attention, which doesn't seem to be the case there...



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2671 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 20566 times:



Quoting Francoflier (Reply 6):
AF is a big 777 operator, but I don't think any other airline is having anywhere close to the same rate of IFSD with theirs.

yes, you are right. I think that the problems comes mainly from AF



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User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 20565 times:

In France you only get top-media attention when you are a trade-union leader calling for strikes or a corrupt politician accusing others of being more corrupt than he is .... .
Aviation and "in-flight technicals" are most likely the least interesting matters for journalists in France.But I agree-the frequency is somewhat irrational compared to the number of aircraft /flights/events used by Air France. I have no doubts about the technical qualification and thoroughness of AF Technique in their checks.So somehow the combinations GE/AF-777 stinks....



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13738 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 20548 times:

This is indeed unfortunate for the Boeing 777-300ER and the operator Air France.

But I think it's probably been about two months since their last IFSD?



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineMHTripple7 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1105 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 20493 times:

Didn't AF lose their ETOPS-180 certification on their 777's because of bad maintenance procedures? So it would seem that it is more of an AF problem then a 777 problem unless losing their ETOPS-180 had to do with some other reason.

User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13738 posts, RR: 19
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 20471 times:



Quoting MHTripple7 (Reply 10):
Didn't AF lose their ETOPS-180 certification on their 777's because of bad maintenance procedures?

No, I believe that was a false and malicious rumour.



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2671 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 20340 times:



Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 9):
But I think it's probably been about two months since their last IFSD?

yes, the last one occured on Januray 26 th, IIRC



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User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12394 posts, RR: 46
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 20297 times:
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Quoting Francoflier (Reply 6):
AF is a big 777 operator, but I don't think any other airline is having anywhere close to the same rate of IFSD with theirs.



Quoting LY777 (Reply 7):
yes, you are right. I think that the problems comes mainly from AF

Is it not also true that AF has operated the 77W longer than any other airline? If it's a "length of service" related issue causing these IFSD, then it might affect AF first and more than other airlines yet, no?



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2671 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 20302 times:

BTW, last week, there was another IFSD on another AF a/c, on a BAE-146:

link in French:

http://www.crash-aerien.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6797



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User currently offlineRamzi From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 19274 times:

I will be flying an AF 77W in July. I am going to try and get my self on an MEA 332 using their codeshare instead, but timing is an issue. All the same, I won't go out of my way not to fly the 777 with AF.


There will come a time when you believe everything is finished - that will be the beginning.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21476 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 19103 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
.occured last friday on a flight from Paris to the Antilles .The GE powered 777 made an emergency-landing on the Açores ...

It's been what, a few months now since an IFSD on AF? The most recent were SQ, IIRC.

That's well within specs for ETOPS at AF. I really think people responding to this need to know the full story before they start talking about a "replacement" for an aircraft.

Quoting LY777 (Reply 14):
BTW, last week, there was another IFSD on another AF a/c, on a BAE-146:

Must be replaced ASAP.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineZuluAviator994 From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 18804 times:

Hm...
Whats the condition of AF's service?
Has there been any unusual crashes due to their maintenence?
It's unfortunate that this is happening to such a great plane.



If Speed is life, Altitude is life insurance. No one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineTWAL1011727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 624 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 17669 times:

Jesus people....engine failures, although not as common as in years past, do happen.
All the worlds airlines with all the A/C flying at one time ..the odds are there...thats what pilot training is there for.

It goes to show just how safe all A/C are that they aren't dropping out of the sky.

Lets look at the big picture and not isolate a particular airline or aircraft type.

KD


User currently offlineCobra27 From Slovenia, joined May 2001, 1009 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 17375 times:

As long as it is only one engine failure, it is ok

The british airways accident was more serious


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19415 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 17303 times:



Quoting TWAL1011727 (Reply 18):
Jesus people....engine failures, although not as common as in years past, do happen.

Yes, but twin-engine A/C are more common than they were in years past.


User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 16770 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 3):
Very few issues with the A340 other than it is less economic than a 777

That's a pretty big issue when you're trying to make money with the thing.

Quoting Francoflier (Reply 6):
It has been suggested in previous similar threads that those are the only 777 that operate to places where the engines would be subjected to more dirt ingestion and 'lower quality' fuel.

There are plenty of Asian operators with 777's...much worse dirt issues and probably similar fuel issues.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 20):
Quoting TWAL1011727 (Reply 18):
Jesus people....engine failures, although not as common as in years past, do happen.

Yes, but twin-engine A/C are more common than they were in years past.

Right, and a single-engine failure on a twin is perfectly safe. A dual-engine failure is the concerning condition, which isn't what happened. The 737 and A320 fleets have far more IFSD's than the 777 fleet yet nobody is getting freaked out about that.

Tom.


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12394 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 16690 times:
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Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 21):
The 737 and A320 fleets have far more IFSD's than the 777 fleet yet nobody is getting freaked out about that.

Typically, A320s and 737s are not used on long over-water routes where the nearest airport might be three hours away.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19415 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 16467 times:



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 22):
Typically, A320s and 737s are not used on long over-water routes where the nearest airport might be three hours away.

Typically no. But 737's are used on HNL-LAX. A shutdown 2.5 hours into that would be "interesting." I don't want to be on that flight.

Does anyone know the details of this AF shutdown?


User currently offlineLaxboeingman From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 14869 times:

Was it because of the engines? I thought that Boeing used good engines.


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User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 14781 times:

On the French forum Radiocockpit they explain that inflight over the Atlantic (Paris to Guadeloupe ) one engine developed un-normal vibrations and had to be shut down.


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User currently offlineHNLtrades118 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 14826 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 23):
But 737's are used on HNL-LAX. A shutdown 2.5 hours into that would be "interesting." I don't want to be on that flight.

Just out of curiosity, how is an IFSD on a 737 any more "interesting" than an IFSD on any other twin? Granted, I wouldn't want to be aboard any airplane and experience an IFSD, but 737s are no less airworthy than any other ETOPS certified twin out there.

If they were somehow less able or safe to fly the oceanic route to HNL, wouldn't the FAA impose additional restrictions or simply ban the 737s from overwater flights?

Just a thought.



"Do not wait for extraordinary circumstances to do good action; try to use ordinary situations." -Sam Rayburn
25 7673mech : Welcome to A.Net - all the arm chair observers will likely want the worldwide fleet grounded.
26 Tiger119 : What is the percentage of 777s with GE power? Thanks, David
27 Singapore_Air : I know for the Boeing 777-300ER series it's 100% because of GE's exclusive contract with Boeing for the powerplant of that type.
28 VS11 : A little bit off topic but has American had any IFSD on their 777's. I will be flying them in August to LHR so curious. Thanks in advance.
29 DocLightning : It's not. It's just that an IFSD on LAX/SFO-HNL is interesting because there's nowhere to divert. Doesn't matter if it's a 738 or a 787.
30 SunriseValley : Probably they have, but they are flying a different version of the 777 with a different engine than the AF aircraft .
31 Tdscanuck : Almost certainly. There aren't many aircraft problems that would drive you to an IFSD. They use the same engines as Airbus...Pratt & Whitney, GE, and
32 Post contains images Max777geek : Airbus is french
33 Post contains images Haggis79 : as long as this one engine doesn't fail as well... which is very unlikely, but by no means impossible.
34 Post contains images A3 : I guess that "Four engines for long haul" is still alive and kicking
35 Crjfixer : Inflight shutdowns are far more common than people might imagine. I would guess 95% of the time they dont make the media. There could have been many m
36 Skyweasy82 : I Think it's a MTC problem. I have seen a few AF IFSD topics with the 777. The way the media is in the states we should have seen one or two on CNN if
37 Crjfixer : You cant necessarily say that its mx, I have 3 IFSD's in 3 days on CRJ-200's from bird strikes (not all the same carrier) It is more than likely just
38 EMA747 : Will this series of IFSDs for AF effect their ETOPS certification? If it did it could hurt them badly as they have some long over water sectors on the
39 Zeke : It should not, the airframe is doing a lot of hours each day, and the AF fleet does a lot of hours each day. I would think this is still within limit
40 Post contains links Marcus380 : Here are some pictures: http://www.azoresairphotos.com/index...ords=F-GSQT&field=reg&fototype=all seems that the n°2 engine was involved but the plan
41 YULWinterSkies : Correct, but the ones used on the Antilles routes are the most recent in the fleet. Correct, they are, besides being extremely annoying for the crew
42 Baron95 : Yes it does matter. To start with, the cruising speeds of a 787 vs a 737, particularly with one engine shutdown are significantly difference - so you
43 LXM83 : It may be the case the cruising speeds are different, but aren't ETOPS rules specifying the one-engine flying time to the nearest alternate? You are
44 Post contains links FlySSC : Back to the Topic : Ths subject was discussed to death a month ago : General Electric Probes B77W GE90 Engine Failures (by SINGAPORE_AIR Feb 6 2008 in
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