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Sterile International Transit At US Airports  
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23294 posts, RR: 20
Posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 11108 times:

What US airports have the facilities in place for sterile transit between international flights? I was a bit surprised to see an international transit lounge at JAX, and I know ANC has them. It's sort of an academic question (since the US generally requires all inbound international passengers to clear immigration regardless of final destination), but if the rules changed, I'm wondering who could take advantage of a change.


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
81 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7632 posts, RR: 43
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 11060 times:

If I am not mistaken, CO was upgrading its IAH hub so that passengers with an international-to-international connection will no longer need to retrieve their bags and bring them through customs. Nonetheless, I believe going through immigration will still be necessary.


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9727 posts, RR: 31
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 10982 times:

I know the one at ANC from the days when 747 still needed a stop-overon the way from Japan to Europe and vv.

The other experience was at LAX on an NZ flight FRA-LAX-AKL, we had to wait about 2 hours in a very shabby sterile transit lounge. No way to leave that, even though at that time, before the visa waiver program, I had a multiple entry indefinate Visa for the US.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlineHelvknight From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 10887 times:

CO had a sterile transit lounge at IAH many years ago, funny thing was that the bar etc in there only took USD.

Also back in the day when the international gates at ATL were the T gates this was basically a sterile lounge.

I flew CI once from JFK - ANC- TPE, we got turfed off the plane in ANC and that area was sterile as well.


User currently offlineAT From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1050 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 10870 times:

Re: "If I am not mistaken, CO was upgrading its IAH hub so that passengers with an international-to-international connection will no longer need to retrieve their bags and bring them through customs. Nonetheless, I believe going through immigration will still be necessary."

If you were transferring from an International to another international flight in the US, why would you need to go through Immigration, let alone customs, at all? That seems rather inefficient and unnecessary.

On a technical note, when replying to a specific thread, does anyone know how to insert the relevant text quoting the original thread?


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11963 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10859 times:



Quoting AT (Reply 4):
If you were transferring from an International to another international flight in the US, why would you need to go through Immigration, let alone customs, at all?

Because in most airports, there isn't any longer the equivalent of an "In-Transit Lounge" like many foreign airports have. In the U.S., once you land and deplane off an international flight, if they didn't make you go through customs, you could just walk out into the terminal with all the other passengers, and then walk right out to the curb and hail a cab without ever clearing anything. Unlike in most foreign airports, where once you enter the terminal through passport control, you can't come back out again without re-clearing customs/passport control, in the U.S. - there is not that extra step. Once you're in the terminal with everyone else, there is no way to keep you from just walking right back out again and entering the United States.


User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4173 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10832 times:
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IAD has/had a sterile lounge in the main and satellite terminals (C or D concourse). Last time I used it (and that was years ago), the concourse lounge was connected to the secure halls connecting gates and immigrations/customs checks.

I've used it just twice, each time as a "holding pen" to allow passengers to disembark an outbound international flight that wasn't going anywhere due to a technical issue without having to send them through customs and immigrations (passengers on an international flight are deemed to have left the country once they board their plane). The first time, the original aircraft was swapped for another and we followed the hall to another gate, the second time around, the plane was fixed about an hour after getting into the lounge.

Sterile lounge is really the appropriate name for the place. If I recall correctly, it has chairs, a couple of TVs, a gate-like counter for an agent, blank walls and windows out to some internal hall that is just as bland.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlinePatroni From Luxembourg, joined Aug 1999, 1403 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10818 times:



Quoting AT (Reply 4):
If you were transferring from an International to another international flight in the US, why would you need to go through Immigration, let alone customs, at all? That seems rather inefficient and unnecessary.

Not only when transferring between flights... also when making a stop in the USA and continue on the same flight!


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10804 times:



Quoting AT (Reply 4):
If you were transferring from an International to another international flight in the US, why would you need to go through Immigration, let alone customs, at all? That seems rather inefficient and unnecessary.

Quite simply because the USA is a primarily-domestic market, and most airports (even some of the largest gateways) lack the infrastructure to accommodate such.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23294 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10595 times:



Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 8):
and most airports (even some of the largest gateways) lack the infrastructure to accommodate such.

True, though some airports could make the conversion without too much trouble. Terminal 5 at ORD comes to mind. At other airports, even fairly new ones like DTW, it would be quite difficult.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26776 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10527 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Thread starter):

LAX does have a rather bad holding tank in T2 that primarily serves NZ1/2.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineGolfBravoRomeo From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10486 times:

Has something changed since IB closed it's MIA hub? Weren't transit visas an issue?

User currently offlineAirportplan From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 469 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10454 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
True, though some airports could make the conversion without too much trouble. Terminal 5 at ORD comes to mind. At other airports, even fairly new ones like DTW, it would be quite difficult.

ORD has transit lounges at a couple gates in International Terminal 5. These gates have opaque doors that can be closed to seal off the hold rooms at these gate from the rest of the concourse. They also have their own restrooms. When in use concession carts would be rolled in to sell food, drinks and other items. KE use to use these these gates on flights from Seoul that continued to Atlanta or other cities but stopped the practice after 9/11.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23294 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10366 times:



Quoting Airportplan (Reply 12):
ORD has transit lounges at a couple gates in International Terminal 5. These gates have opaque doors that can be closed to seal off the hold rooms at these gate from the rest of the concourse.

 checkmark You're right; I was thinking of the (relatively small) potential expense of making Terminal 5 entirely sterile.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7564 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10361 times:

I hate sterile gates, it makes the airport more cluttered and no as passenger friendly since once you go through those doors you can't come back and it then requires several more restroom facilities and other stuff.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23294 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10337 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 14):
I hate sterile gates, it makes the airport more cluttered and no as passenger friendly since once you go through those doors you can't come back and it then requires several more restroom facilities and other stuff.

If you're going to do it, sterile terminals (or concourses) work much better than sterile gates.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21580 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10319 times:

Sterile areas and transit visas are no longer allowed in the USA. You can't connect here unless you are allowed to come to the USA, period. We do this for security. While it's a hassle for some, we honestly don't care if someone who would be banned from entering the USA is not allowed to connect in the USA because of this.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10314 times:

It's too bad that the U.S. can't pilot a program that would give certain U.S. airports permission to build "sterile" transit facilities at a limited number of airports that could handle international-to-international passengers merely transitting the U.S. as an intermediate step and continuing with the same airline.

LAX could certainly use it for KE's ICN-LAX-GRU flight, as well as NZ's AKL-LAX-LHR.

I'm not sure how effective it would be at MIA - space is limited, and the VAST number of international flights and connections might be prohibitive...

Still, as an experiment, it could possibly work in some places.  scratchchin 



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineStylo777 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 3020 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10309 times:

regarding luggage transfer MIA is an airport which allows check your bags through without picking it up and showing it to customs. anyhow the pax itself has to go through immigration. there's a so called ITI tag which must be on the bag for this transfer.

User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3836 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10309 times:

Airlines like Continental and AA have good networks into Europe and Latin America. I'm sure they are losing some business because Latin American passengers who fly to Europe (and back) don't qualify for visa waiver, so they can't connect through the USA.

Soren {Santahat}



All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlineXtoler From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10290 times:



Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 6):
IAD has/had a sterile lounge in the main and satellite terminals (C or D concourse). Last time I used it (and that was years ago), the concourse lounge was connected to the secure halls connecting gates and immigrations/customs checks.

I was wondering if someone would mention IAD. In the '90's bouncing between Europe and my parents' house in VA while on leave the end of C gates were sterile for outbound flights. But parents would at least be able to go through security and take the ride with me to at least before I went through the sterile area. The cool thing about the sterile lounge at the end of C gates, they didn't care if I drank beer even as an pre-21 year old, as long as I had my DD Form 2 (military ID) I could drink, and smoke. Then again back in the early '90's there still wasn't a smoking age.

Anyway, I guess after 9/11 and after I became an F/A there was no sterile lounge at all for out going pax, but coming in, international pax were herded to customs. It's still pretty crappy airport if you have to lay over there. If you have to go through customs and pick up a second flight, don't worry, you won't miss it, I don't call it Washington "Delay Us" for nothing.

However, on some of my long sits at IAD B terminal has Air France and Korean AIr going out of there, and I'm still yet trying to figure out where their sterile area is. IAD is a weird ass airport anyway. They still do a lot of their international flights from hardstands too, but I think they at least have Aerflot on a jet way at the far end of D gates.

The funniest thing is, everytime the Ethopian Airlines 763 comes in, there's always new rampers.



EMB145 F/A, F/E, J41 F/A, F/E, because my wife clipped my wings, armchair captain
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7632 posts, RR: 43
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10145 times:



Quoting AT (Reply 4):
If you were transferring from an International to another international flight in the US, why would you need to go through Immigration, let alone customs, at all? That seems rather inefficient and unnecessary.

Yes, as others have eloquently explained, all connecting passengers landing in the U.S. from abroad (i.e., both international-to-international and international-to-domestic) must go through immigration, retrieve their bags and then go through customs. After that is done, then one must drop their bags off again, then go through x-rays, and then finally go to the new gate. You are very right, however, when you say it is inefficient and unnecessary, but infrastructure of U.S. international airports, national security policy and post 9-11 procedures mandate this.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10095 times:



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 1):
If I am not mistaken, CO was upgrading its IAH hub so that passengers with an international-to-international connection will no longer need to retrieve their bags and bring them through customs.

You're right CO passengers don't need to retrieve their bags when making international to international connections @ IAH, but must go thru immigration and customs formalities.

Quoting GolfBravoRomeo (Reply 11):
Has something changed since IB closed it's MIA hub? Weren't transit visas an issue?

U.S. visas were an issue, most Centralamericans flying IB thru their MIA mini-hub had no visas and were requiered visas to connect in MIA.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 16):
Sterile areas and transit visas are no longer allowed in the USA.

The only sterile area - outside immigration and customs control - that I'm aware in the U.S. is ANC. ANC is the only U.S. airport where foreigners can disembark at the airport, stay indoor for a short stop while the plane gets re-fueled and continue in the same aircraft.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineAnalog From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1900 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10081 times:



Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 8):
Quite simply because the USA is a primarily-domestic market, and most airports (even some of the largest gateways) lack the infrastructure to accommodate such.

That's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Make transit without visa illegal and nobody will build the facilities. Don't build the facilities and there's less pressure to legalize it.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 16):
Sterile areas and transit visas are no longer allowed in the USA. You can't connect here unless you are allowed to come to the USA, period. We do this for security. While it's a hassle for some, we honestly don't care if someone who would be banned from entering the USA is not allowed to connect in the USA because of this.

I care. It reduces the market for US airlines. LAX would be great for Latin America to Asia, MIA would be great for L.America to Europe, but noooo, we can't let our airlines make that money. It's better to let IB, MX, etc. handle that market. For every person that isn't allowed into the US, there are 10 more that would have to make a trip to the embassy, pay $100, and wait a long time just to get a visa to transit.

It also hurts our image abroad, it makes us look hostile to foreigners. Even Russia allows (or used to) transit without visa.

Just allow it and penalize the airlines if someone manages to escape the sterile area. Let the airlines figure out how to make it secure.


User currently offlineBAKJet From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 744 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10061 times:



Quoting AT (Reply 4):
On a technical note, when replying to a specific thread, does anyone know how to insert the relevant text quoting the original thread?

You highlight the text you want to quote and then click "Quote Selected Text"

I think this answers what your question was. BTW-Sorry if this question has already been answered.


25 Hiflyer : Sadly the end result is a diversion of airline revenue away from the United States to easier transit points for business that do not require fingerpr
26 UAL747 : JFK has a sterile lounge for it's NRT-JFK-GRU flight on JL. Though, it's really only made from putting up divider walls around part of the lounge at t
27 Apodino : One thing that needs to happen in the US is a Departure Passport Control like other countries have. This would make it much easier for CBP to keep tra
28 Analog : Proper collection of I-94s would do this at a tiny fraction of the cost. Not really. Transit w/o visa would require that you never enter the country,
29 NYC2theworld : The airlines even at this time do not think the investment required to change their hub airports facilities and operations are not worth the extra fa
30 C010T3 : That's really the problem. I think that the best solution for US-airports is to imitate FRA. Building gates accessible from two floors would reduce t
31 C010T3 : It would be a common area where transit passengers would stay, not an isolated one, so there's need for exit controls, since the arriving but not tra
32 Spark : Prior to the current generation of jets, airlines used to fly from Asia to California via Honolulu (I know SQ and CA did, QF did to Australia). As chi
33 Analog : Such a facility exists in LAX (NZ), so why not allow it to be used? As it is transit pax are locked in but must enter the US anyways. Stupid. Again,
34 GRRTVC : ANC doesn't use the in-transient lounges much anymore. CX's flight between YYZ and HKG does a tech stop and paxs are allowed off but have to pass thro
35 FlashFlyGuy : QF was the same, transited HNL and/or LAX on the way to SFO enough in the old days to know....most international (foreign) airlines had an arrangemen
36 Cubsrule : Not everywhere... if you look at ORD (I know I keep using the example), Terminal 5 is nearly there, you buy some buses for folks taking a (internatio
37 Windowplease : There is a half-way house here that could see legitimate US security concerns addressed while allowing many people to transit without braving CBP line
38 AT : Let's say there were no transit visa requirements in the US and you were transferring from an international to international flight at a US airport. I
39 DiscoverCSG : Without regard to the actual facility/space situations, I could see the following terminals allowing sterile transit: AA: JFK and MIA CO: EWR and IAH
40 AirNZ : Which raises exactly the point which causes so much resentment around the world......if a pax is NOT ENTERING THE US, but simply transitting on conne
41 Cubsrule : No, but they certainly don't have to admit anyone to the US. The old chicken and the egg... if there's no sterile transit, people need to submit to i
42 Analog : Yep, you'd be forced onto a flight, either home or onwards. Either that or you'd have to learn to love the transit area. Countries reserve the right
43 YULWinterSkies : How dare you speak for the rest of your fellow Americans? Basically every single American that i know is pissed that due to the current American impe
44 Post contains images AirFrnt : He can speak for himself. He certainly does not need a Canadian to speak for him Your comment strikes me in the same vein as most other Kael comments
45 Bwohlgemuth : This can go in a different thread, but in my recent journeys, the only ones who "hated" Americans usually had agendas of their own (our Aussie tour g
46 Cubsrule : Sounds like someone has a (non-flying related) political agenda... If only it were that easy... If they use U.S. airports, why not? If I drive from W
47 AT : That certainly makes logical sense.
48 Ansett767 : So how come HNL didn't use to have this for AC flights that used to transit here from SYD on to YVR? I heard you had to clear customs etc etc.... Why
49 Yellowtail : Those were the days...now you gotta go get a new new every 5-10 years. Now, lets just strive for lower standards! Other airports around the world all
50 Cubsrule : I think you'd be hard-pressed to argue that the lack of excitement for sterile international transfer areas in the United States is terrorism-related
51 Nzrich : There is a transit sterile area in T2 in LAX used only for NZ flights NZ1/2 AKL-LAX-LHR and return .. You do fill out some paperwork but its a lot ea
52 Post contains images Ansett767 : Really???? WOW! So does that mean no immigration clearance? Coz usually I am OK but last time the queue took 1 hour and the guy then held me another
53 Cubsrule : It's done in Canada prior to departure.
54 C010T3 : Well, the Brazilian market is overwhelmingly domestic as well, however, it is possible to connect between international flights without going through
55 Cubsrule : I think we're talking about different amounts of overwhelmingness (a nonsense word, but you get the idea)... what percentage domestic is Brazil?
56 Post contains images Analog : How is it terrorism related? Is there any real danger posed by transit w/o visa that couldn't be addressed with simple security measures? How is it e
57 Cubsrule : I argued that it isn't... it sounds like you agree. I'm not sure carriers would be interested in bearing the expense even if it were permitted... loo
58 C010T3 : It was about 90% last year. In terms of relative infra-structure, there is no difference whatsoever, so I don't think it's valid to disqualify the co
59 AirNZ : Not sure I can agree with you on that one. When I used to exclusively fly NZ1 and NZ2 (LHR-AKL-LHR) which did/still does transit through LAX, transit
60 Nzrich : No collecting bags having to recheck them fight the masses through immigration then going through the tsa is missed so all up much much easier !!! I
61 Cubsrule : It isn't, but most carriers don't care enough to clamor for changes. NZ is (obviously) the exception, and TSA has worked with them.
62 Mozart : I do not have a political agenda, but I am always amazed to what extent security hysteria and simplist reasoning clouts people's sense of judgement. L
63 Analog : I agree. That being said, there are two possible reasons to send the person back home instead of onward: the return flights, and to discourage the re
64 Caspritz78 : To be honest I haven't read one argument that convinced me that the majority US airports invest hundreds of millions for international transit areas.
65 Argonaut : Sums it up, really.
66 Ikramerica : The cost of entirely changing our system, redesigning all our airports, etc. is astronomical, all so that some non-US citizen passengers who are not a
67 Cubsrule : The (relatively small) lack of otherwise available revenue from 'dirty' transit passengers might be a reason to liberalize visa policies, but that's
68 C010T3 : Most passengers that would connect in the US have US-visas, but choose to connect elsewhere to avoid the hassle. Potential immigrants don't connect i
69 AirFrnt : Really? So how many attacks in the US have there been since 9/11? How many in the UK and Spain?
70 Mozart : And before I forgot: somebody mentioned planes overflying the US being a threat. Do you really seriously suggest that passengers on a nonstop flight f
71 Mozart : Wow, this 9/11 thing really must have bombed out some people's brain cells... Can you please logically explain to me how checking those people's pass
72 Analog : That's a very paternalistic attitude; does the government really know better than the airlines? Why tell the airlines what's not profitable? Let them
73 Cubsrule : Given the NZ/LAX experience, I suspect these rules are in effect de facto today. The problem (which was what the thread was originally about) is that
74 Analog : AFAIK one cannot transit in LAX w/o meeting entry requirements for the US. Translation: you need a visa (or waiver). You do get exempted from customs
75 Cubsrule : So pax have to have a visa even though there's no immigration control? Weird...
76 Analog : There is immigration, but no customs: From NZ: US-VISIT is an electronic entry system for verifying the identity of arriving visitors and confirming
77 AirFrnt : Please go back and check the original thread before you continue your flaming. His assertion was: I debunked that by noting that there terrorist inci
78 Argonaut : Okay. It might take a little effort, but try, if you can, to think clearly: The terrorist incidents in the U.K. and Spain had nothing to do with anyo
79 Cubsrule : How does that work (logistically)?
80 Analog : I've never taken NZ1/2, so I can't say from experience. However, the two are usually (always?) separate when entering the US. One goes through immigr
81 Cubsrule : The amount of separation depends on the airport. The problem, in my experience (also never having taken NZ1/2) is that the immigration facility is ty
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