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Flights Between The United Kingdom And Ireland  
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3598 times:

I know that Ireland, the United Kingdom, the Isle of Man, Guernsey, and Jersey are all part of the "Common Travel Area." Does this mean that flights between the two countries, the Isle of Man, and the Channel Islands are all treated as if they were domestic flights? This agreement seems to be a bit ambiguous to me as it is also my understanding that there are certain situations where you need to track down an immigration officer and be processed at the port of entry. Or am I mistaken?

Are flights from Ireland, the Isle of Man, and the Channel Islands handled in the same area as domestic flights in UK airports or are they separated? I know that Terminal 1 in LHR handled most domestic and Ireland flights until recently. With the opening of Terminal 5 and the moving of many domestic flights to there, how is this being done now?

Are flights from the UK into Ireland also treated as if they were domestic flights?

Thanks for any feedback.


"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27110 posts, RR: 60
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3569 times:

The common travel area is only for EU/EEA Citizens. All others still need a valid passport and visa (if applicable). They do have border checks between the UK and Ireland . You have to be able to prove you are Irish/British or another EU / EEA citizen. Even between Northern Ireland (UK) and the Republic of Ireland NON EU/EEA citizens need two visas. One for the UK and one for ROI to travel between Belfast and Dublin. There are regular checks by Irish Immigration control on the border. They stop the bus or train and check people . This is done by spot checks and not all trains or buses are stopped.

Flights are treated like domestic flights to some extent but you can be stopped at anytime and asked for ID.


User currently offlineSwiftski From Australia, joined Dec 2006, 2701 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3568 times:



Quoting BA (Thread starter):
Are flights from Ireland, the Isle of Man, and the Channel Islands handled in the same area as domestic flights in UK airports or are they separated?

They go domestic, where domestic specific facilities exist.

Quoting BA (Thread starter):
Are flights from the UK into Ireland also treated as if they were domestic flights?

UK flights into Ireland go through passport control, however it is pretty much a formality. Often, having a British passport, you don't even need to open it; just flash it.


User currently offlineXXXX10 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 777 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3552 times:

it's complicated, flights between the UK and Republic of Ireland (ROI) are iternational but there are no imigration controls.

If you are a citizen of either country you do not need a passport to travel betwen them -just photo ID for the airline.

Citizens of EU countries can use an EU identity card.

Citizens of other countries do need a passport and may need a visa but there will be no-one to show them to as there are no imigration controls.

You may have trouble flying between the UK and ROI if your id shows you are a citizen of another country and you do not have the required documentation.

One way around this is to travel between the UK and Northern Ireland- this is domestic, you can then cross the border overland.

As far as the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands are concerned they are not part of the UK or even the EU but anyone who has entered the UK can travel there AFAIK you do not need a passport if travelling form the UK.

hope this helps


User currently offlineXXXX10 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 777 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3537 times:

OA260

Sorry must have overlapped your post. I wasnot aware that there were immigration checks done at the land border, is this something new?


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27110 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3496 times:



Quoting XXXX10 (Reply 4):
I wasnot aware that there were immigration checks done at the land border, is this something new?

Its not new . I live on the border in Newry Co.Down and cross the border 4-5 times a week and although never stopped in a private car I have seen the Irish side stop coaches just South of an area called Ravensdale on many occasions. When I fly out of Dublin I take the airport coach which runs from Belfast to Dublin Airport. I have been stopped a good few times and I had to show my passport when the guys boarded the bus. There were some Italians last time and they couldn't understand what was going on and just showed their ID cards. The other place they get on the train is Dundalk railway station. I have seen Indians and Chinese taken off the train at Dundalk as they didn't have Irish visas. I guess alot get through without a visa its only if they catch you that you are in trouble.

I actually took a picture of them stopping my bus in one of my trip reports back in January. There is no visible border or check points I guess thats why its weird for non Irish people to fathom. There are signs after you cross the border though for the ''Customs facilitation'' center on the Irish side. Also the road signs change into Irish and English and the speed limits are in KM and not MPH. Thats the only way to tell your in the Republic.


User currently offlineMainMAN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 2097 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3496 times:

Sorry to be vague but........

I read somewhere (maybe on here?) that the agreement regarding the 'common travel area' between the UK and Irish governments is soon to be scrapped and that travel between the two will become exactly the same as between any other non-schengen country....i.e. full passport, but not immigration control.

In reality, all non-schengen nationals show passports at border posts, so the difference in travel between the UK and Ireland will be meaningless.


User currently offlineXXXX10 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 777 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3482 times:



Quoting MainMAN (Reply 6):
read somewhere (maybe on here?) that the agreement regarding the 'common travel area' between the UK and Irish governments is soon to be scrapped and that travel between the two will become exactly the same as between any other non-schengen country....i.e. full passport, but not immigration control.

I think thatthi is mentioned on Wikipedi, AFAIK nothing has been agreed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Travel_Area


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3447 times:



Quoting XXXX10 (Reply 3):
You may have trouble flying between the UK and ROI if your id shows you are a citizen of another country and you do not have the required documentation.

One way around this is to travel between the UK and Northern Ireland- this is domestic, you can then cross the border overland.

Sorry, but it's not a way around it at all and I'm afraid you are very much mistaken and grossly ill-informed if you think that! There are frequent immigration checks at the border, and certainly much more frequent/extensive than at any airport.


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3439 times:

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

So how are non-EU/EEA citizens processed when coming from Ireland if flights arrive in the domestic section of UK airports? Is it an honor system where you are expected to track down an immigration officer?

I must say, this is a very interesting agreement.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27110 posts, RR: 60
Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3412 times:

It will never happen between Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland . They have spent so many years trying to get peace I doubt the British want to throw it away with a rule that would be divisive. The issue is still sensitive especially around the border area. People on either side of the immediate border would not accept it. They may bring it in between the Island of Ireland and Britain but then there would be too much opposition from the Unionist community in the North as they would see it as being cut off from ''Their country''. There is alot of politics involved to be honest. I think it will come to a stage where the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland will have a joint E border with Britain. There will basically be a E border around the whole of the UK and Ireland but free movement within that area. To be fair the Republic is quite strict when it comes to border issues. So the UK has nothing to worry about from Ireland. There has never been an issue like they had with France where people try to break the border. See article below :: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv..._article_id=526232&in_page_id=1770

I can understand why they want to seal the borders though . The Irish / UK common travel issue has always been a real mix and sometimes hard to understand.


User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3390 times:



Quoting BA (Reply 9):
So how are non-EU/EEA citizens processed when coming from Ireland if flights arrive in the domestic section of UK airports? Is it an honor system where you are expected to track down an immigration officer?

I've only done this once, and there was no check at all of any kind. I flew DUB - LCY a couple of years ago and I didn;t even have to flash a passport upon arrival at LCY. Heck, the British government probably has no record that I ever entered the country that time.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27110 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3383 times:

Quoting BA (Reply 9):
So how are non-EU/EEA citizens processed when coming from Ireland if flights arrive in the domestic section of UK airports? Is it an honor system where you are expected to track down an immigration officer?

If you arrive into the UK and have a ticket to the Republic of Ireland then you clear immigration in the UK. You must show the UK authorities that you have right to visit/stay in Ireland. This is by way of a Visa in the passport or a ''Garda immigration ID card'' this is like an American ID card which has the photo and details of the holder on it in the size of a credit card. This card is given to NON EU/EEA nationals who have residency or work permit status. If you dont have this the UK authorities will refuse ''transit'' status and deport the person back. The same applies to anyone flying from say JFK-DUB-LHR. The Irish authorities are responsible to make sure the passenger has a UK visa if applicable.

For EU and British/Irish nationals you just get waived through normally in DUB and LHR as they take a quick look at your passport when coming from outside the EU/EEA area.

Some people who have visas for Ireland forget they need Visas for the UK and vise versa even when transiting and fall foul of the rules.

[Edited 2008-03-30 15:50:32]

User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3348 times:

I wrote a little about the surprising lack of ID checks by government agents.

I flew ATL-DUB-LCY, and the only time I showed my passport to anyone was at check in and to board each flight - so it was just DL and AF employees who looked at my passport.

I was also amazed to learn that DUB does not have a transfer facility at all! You have to go through immigration, past baggage claim and go back upstairs. And even though I had to go through immigration, I simply told the nice lady that I was connecting to London and she just said I should go through - without even asking to see my passport!


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27110 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3322 times:



Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 13):
I was also amazed to learn that DUB does not have a transfer facility at all! You have to go through immigration, past baggage claim and go back upstairs. And even though I had to go through immigration, I simply told the nice lady that I was connecting to London and she just said I should go through - without even asking to see my passport!

There is a transit facility in place now. Its only recent though . The old way as you describe was ridiculous and thank god they changed it. The airline that brought you into DUB was responsible to make sure you had the correct documents otherwise they would have not let you board as they get hefty fines. Your passport should have been checked when you got off the Atlanta flight though as the 1st thing that you hit when you get off is immigration. I cant understand if it wasn't and its a one off if it wasn't checked and a breech of immigration policy.


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3309 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 12):
If you arrive into the UK and have a ticket to the Republic of Ireland then you clear immigration in the UK. You must show the UK authorities that you have right to visit/stay in Ireland. This is by way of a Visa in the passport or a ''Garda immigration ID card'' this is like an American ID card which has the photo and details of the holder on it in the size of a credit card. This card is given to NON EU/EEA nationals who have residency or work permit status. If you dont have this the UK authorities will refuse ''transit'' status and deport the person back. The same applies to anyone flying from say JFK-DUB-LHR. The Irish authorities are responsible to make sure the passenger has a UK visa if applicable.

Thanks. This makes sense. So the country you enter is responsible for the immigration formalities and makes sure that you have all the right documents that allow you to visit the other country. In this case, Ireland being responsible for checking that passengers have the right documents to visit the UK.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27110 posts, RR: 60
Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3291 times:



Quoting BA (Reply 15):
This makes sense. So the country you enter is responsible for the immigration formalities and makes sure that you have all the right documents that allow you to visit the other country. In this case, Ireland being responsible for checking that passengers have the right documents to visit the UK.

Yep thats it . Hope it didn't confuse too much. Its always hard to try to explain the complexities but I think I have it down to a T now LOL.....


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3285 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 16):
Yep thats it . Hope it didn't confuse too much. Its always hard to try to explain the complexities but I think I have it down to a T now LOL.....

It is quite complex, I agree.  Smile

What I think would be a good idea is if the United Kingdom and Ireland adopted a common visa. Basically like a mini-Schengen agreement between themselves. Such a visa would allow you to visit either country without having to apply for separate visas for each. Has this ever been considered?



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27110 posts, RR: 60
Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3273 times:



Quoting BA (Reply 17):
What I think would be a good idea is if the United Kingdom and Ireland adopted a common visa. Basically like a mini-Schengen agreement between themselves. Such a visa would allow you to visit either country without having to apply for separate visas for each. Has this ever been considered?

I'm not sure but I think if they did this then the Schengen zone would be upset as its basically the same thing . I think the only way is the current status Quo or going into Schengen. Also it would mean that the UK would have the right to issue a visa that allowed people into the Republic of Ireland and vise versa. I dont know if the UK would be ready to allow another country to authorise who gets UK entry and who does not. At the moment the UK still controls who gets in and who doesn't and the Republic of Ireland has to abide by these rules and vise versa. The British are very protective of their sovereignty and ability to make their own decisions. The Irish are more European focused hence the Euro and switch to Kilometres. If it was not for the North / South border issue then Ireland would be in Schengen long ago.


User currently offlineBRUNOatBHX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3092 times:

I have flown a few times BHX-DUB and never used a passport. All you need is approved photo ID such as driving licence or military ID

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27110 posts, RR: 60
Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3014 times:



Quoting BRUNOatBHX (Reply 19):
All you need is approved photo ID such as driving licence or military ID

Unless you use the FR Web check in, in which case you MUST hold a full passport !!! I know someone who got denied last week . Check the new FR terms and conditions . Just be careful as it would be easy to get caught out.


User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2759 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2996 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 1):
They do have border checks between the UK and Ireland .

Are you sure? Whenever I arrive into LGW with EI from DUB when approaching immigration there is a separate little gate to the right usually with a pleasant elderly man (always seems to be him when I arrive) calling "passengers arriving from Dublin this way please". He doesn't ask for passports, but simply collects the boarding pass stubs from the flight from DUB and by going through this gate you bypass the often long queues at immigration/passport conttrol.



Long live Aer Lingus!
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27110 posts, RR: 60
Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2956 times:

Border controls
In 1997 Ireland changed its immigration legislation to allow immigration officers to examine (i.e. request identity documents from) travellers arriving to the Republic from elsewhere in the Common Travel Area and to refuse them permission to land if they are not entitled to enter the state[17]. Although this is stated to only apply to people other than Irish and British citizens, both of latter groups are effectively covered as they may be required to produce identity documents to prove that they are entitled to the Common Travel Area arrangements. Although it is difficult to be exact about the nature of current border checks - due largely to official reluctance to clearly state the nature of the controls - fixed controls are only maintained at ports and airports[18] while targeted controls are conducted along the land border in what are referred to as "intelligence driven operations".[19]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Travel_Area


User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2759 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2931 times:



Quoting OA260 (Reply 22):
Although it is difficult to be exact about the nature of current border checks - due largely to official reluctance to clearly state the nature of the controls - fixed controls are only maintained at ports and airports

Doesn't seem a totally correct interpretation of things according to Wikepdia as as I stated on frequent travel between DUB and LGW on arrival in LGW there are not "fixed controls" as stated in your Wikepdia link. Wow Philip, this is our second disagreement in about a week!!  Sad  Wink



Long live Aer Lingus!
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27110 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2913 times:



Quoting Toulouse (Reply 23):
Wow Philip, this is our second disagreement in about a week!! Sad Wink

LOL... your wife must be away so you need someone to argue with LOL......

There are erratic controls in both London and Dublin. Did you never see an empty ''Police control'' desk in LGW and LHR?? I have seen them all the time. Sometimes manned and sometimes not. I agree its not exactly water tight but they are there even if they are not always used. Once you are ''within'' the common travel area they are less strict. I have been stopped on numerous occasions . The last time was heading down to gates 85-90 in T1 . I was asked for my ID/Passport. I showed it and she asked me why I had a visa for Pakistan in my passport . She then took some details on a ''immigration card'' . She was nice enough and it didn't bother me. I suppose I could have kicked up about my rights etc.... but I dont really care if you have nothing to hide. If you really want me to risk taking photos next time I will but you can bail me out of jail LOL.....

One member swore blind there were not NI/ROI border checks until I photographed it !!!


25 Post contains images Toulouse : LOL, not the case... you thought I'd get our common Mediterranean blood boiling (but suppose I should be careful as you're 1000% med. unlike me!) Not
26 OA260 : [quote=Toulouse,reply=25](now drum roll for OA260's upcoming comments with some negativity because I'm arriving from La belle France!!" [/quote Like I
27 Toulouse : With your Greek looks I'm sure I could get them to have a field day with you!!!
28 EIEGAA : As well as the lines on the road verges turning from white to yellow!! Do you work in Newry? I have got the Belfast-Dublin bus a lot but have only be
29 AirNZ : Yes, there are. However, I note from from your post that you are referring to flying from LGW to DUB. What OA260 and myself were referring to earlier
30 OA260 : No just live there . Yeah but then it kind of side tracked to his DUB-LGW flight LOL..... Like the NI/ROI border there is the same kind of spot check
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