DiscoverCSG From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 783 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5010 times:
The problem is that CO mainly has just 752's for international expansion.
EWR-TXL is 3980 miles according to Great Circle Mapper, and this is considered to be really pushing the westbound range of the 752, to the point where fuel stops are sometimes required.
EWR-WAW is 4278 miles. My guess is the extra 298 miles would be the deal-breaker here.
Greenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 450 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4955 times:
Cleveland has a large Polish population (and could feed from Chicago). So, a CLE-AMS-WAW routing may be very lucrative for CO, hitting two new markets from CLE and one new station (WAW), and could be done with a 757 (fueling at AMS).
FLY764 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 113 posts, RR: 3 Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4898 times:
Maybe Continental would some how utilize a 762 if they were to open up Warsaw. Continental can swap a 757 for the 762 that will be running EWR-MAD this summer. There is also a 762 that runs EWR-CDG 3-4 times a week which I am sure could be switched to a 757 if need be. I guess time will tell.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21290 posts, RR: 19 Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4720 times:
Quoting Greenair727 (Reply 2): Cleveland has a large Polish population (and could feed from Chicago).
LO is an excellent choice for those in Chicago and, more generally, I think LO is the problem with service to Poland. If you look at the secondary markets that DL and CO have chosen to serve from New York, in no case do you see a competitor as formidable as LO and in many cases you don't see a competitor at all. LO is no SQ, but it certainly does the job, and given its lower labor costs does the job more cheaply than can DL or CO.
If DL or CO were to start service to Poland, I'd look for service to southern Poland, likely KRK but maybe KTW (not that there's a whole lot of distance between the two). There's significantly less competition there than at WAW, and while Warsaw is the political and arguably the economic capital of Poland, both the tourist and the VFR traffic is more heavily concentrated in the southern part of the country.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
HT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6475 posts, RR: 26 Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4706 times:
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 4): If DL or CO were to start service to Poland, I'd look for service to southern Poland, likely KRK but maybe KTW (not that there's a whole lot of distance between the two). There's significantly less competition there than at WAW, and while Warsaw is the political and arguably the economic capital of Poland, both the tourist and the VFR traffic is more heavily concentrated in the southern part of the country.
Remember that there were LO-nonstops even from RZE to NYC (IIRC) last summer using B767.
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21290 posts, RR: 19 Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4697 times:
Quoting HT (Reply 5): Remember that there were LO-nonstops even from RZE to NYC (IIRC) last summer using B767.
Yeah; given how poor Podkarpacie (sp?) is, I suspect they were almost exclusively VFR traffic (and, FWIW, a really smart move given the ability to tap into parts of Belarus and Ukraine as well as southeast Poland).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
Xtoler From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 942 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4671 times:
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 4): If DL or CO were to start service to Poland, I'd look for service to southern Poland, likely KRK but maybe KTW (not that there's a whole lot of distance between the two). There's significantly less competition there than at WAW, and while Warsaw is the political and arguably the economic capital of Poland, both the tourist and the VFR traffic is more heavily concentrated in the southern part of the country.
Would that be because Americans want to buy cheap stuff in the Czech Republic? Sorry, just a thought, after the Cold War, there were a lot of tours offered to southern Poland and the Czech Republic on American leased military bases, mostly in Germany. My mother-in-law was no stranger to Eger and Karlovy Vary on the weekends.
EMB145 F/A, F/E, J41 F/A, F/E, because my wife clipped my wings, armchair captain
HT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6475 posts, RR: 26 Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4592 times:
Quoting Xtoler (Reply 7): Would that be because Americans want to buy cheap stuff in the Czech Republic?
Usually not. Lots of people from the Podkarpacie region have emigrated to the U.S. These (and their descendants) are visiting relatives in Poland as well as Poles are visiting relatives in the U.S. Add to that "tourism" as reason or travelling in both directions.
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
MasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 4751 posts, RR: 7 Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4496 times:
Quoting Xtoler (Reply 7): Would that be because Americans want to buy cheap stuff in the Czech Republic?
The Czech, as my son calls it (cf. The Dominican), is a terrific place to visit, but I can't recall any bargains for Americans. How many garnets can one person use?
Quoting FLY764 (Reply 3): Continental can swap a 757 for the 762 that will be running EWR-MAD this summer.
Too much BizFirst to MAD to make that swap. Unless they tap the used aircraft market, CO is out of bullets until 787's start arriving; and given the slowdown, that may not be all bad.
COalways From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 336 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4274 times:
CO has a handful of 767 destinations that they can swap with a 757. Only time will tell what there going to use for the new destination and when the start date will be. Hopefully they can annouce service next year that would be GREAT!!
OA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4994 posts, RR: 25 Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4225 times:
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 4): If you look at the secondary markets that DL and CO have chosen to serve from New York, in no case do you see a competitor as formidable as LO and in many cases you don't see a competitor at all. LO is no SQ, but it certainly does the job, and given its lower labor costs does the job more cheaply than can DL or CO.
However, don't forget that if DL does indeed choose to serve WAW, it is entirely possible that it could be an ATL-WAW flight rather than JFK-WAW.
Mats From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 587 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4120 times:
I think that Newark-Prague and Newark-Moscow/Sheremetyevo are more likely. These are SkyTeam hubs so there would be connecting traffic on both sides.
ConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3973 times:
Quoting Mats (Reply 12): Newark-Moscow/Sheremetyevo are more likely
Be interesting to see if CO will now want to enter SVO if they attempt another MOW run. Last time was DME, though that was before SU was a SkyTeam member. Even more interesting though is that their attempt at EWR-MOW prior to that saw them wanting to codeshare with SU from not only New York but also Miami as well.
KochamLOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 277 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3759 times:
Quoting OA412 (Reply 11): However, don't forget that if DL does indeed choose to serve WAW, it is entirely possible that it could be an ATL-WAW flight rather than JFK-WAW.
True. A lot of Polish have migrated to areas like Florida. I wonder how the load factor on an ATL-WAW would be.
Who would be first, DL or CO? anybody?
BlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1736 posts, RR: 5 Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3583 times:
Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 1): The problem is that CO mainly has just 752's for international expansion.
Only for the spokes in Europe that are used to connect EWR directly to feed the transatlantic traffic through that hub. Warsaw would get 767-200ER, if launched.
Quoting Greenair727 (Reply 2): CLE-AMS-WAW routing may be very lucrative for CO, hitting two new markets from CLE and one new station (WAW), and could be done with a 757 (fueling at AMS
That's a recipe for disaster. Most business travellers would choose LO due to their nonstop service, saving connection time. Besides, I believe CO already runs connection through AMS as a codeshare with KL on AMS-WAW segment.
Quoting FLY764 (Reply 3): Maybe Continental would some how utilize a 762 if they were to open up Warsaw.
Bingo! If they open the route, 767-200ER would be the main equipment operating it. Loads permitting, it may get swapped for 767-400ER. The summer traffic alone would justify it.
Quoting FLY764 (Reply 3): I am sure could be switched to a 757 if need be
EWR - WAW will never be run on 757. It doesn't have range and it would need a tech stop on both outbound and return segments.
Quoting HT (Reply 5): Remember that there were LO-nonstops even from RZE to NYC (IIRC) last summer using B767
They are resuming on June 5th, this time as a year-round service.
Milan320 From Poland, joined Jan 2005, 866 posts, RR: 12 Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3371 times:
Quoting Xtoler (Reply 7): Would that be because Americans want to buy cheap stuff in the Czech Republic?
No that is not it. Believe it or not, the southern part of Poland is very beautiful. Although, personally, I prefer Warsaw to Krakow, the southern part of Poland constitutes what were parts of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, hence a corridor of very interesting places which include Souther Poland, Slovakia, Czech Republic, etc.
Furthermore, the largest and most famous of all the Nazi concentration camps, Oswiecim (a.k.a Auschwitz) is in the southern part of the country.
3MilesToWRO From Poland, joined Mar 2006, 270 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3037 times:
Quoting Dazeflight (Reply 17): Now that is something I definitely do not understand. Warsaw is a shithole compared to Krakow.
There's something about it with Swedes. Our capital was moved from Krakow to Warsaw by king Zygmunt III whom we acquired, surprisingly, from Swedish dynasty Wasa
ORDagent From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 823 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2682 times:
LO is a very tough competitor to their home market. They shift capacity for the summer peak season and cut it heavily in the winter. The market is not very high yield. However as Poland intigrates more and more tightly witht the EU and the economy expands high yield traffic will grow. At least LO is Star Alliance but AFAIK the C class product is not at the top tier...yet.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21290 posts, RR: 19 Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2483 times:
Quoting OA412 (Reply 11): However, don't forget that if DL does indeed choose to serve WAW, it is entirely possible that it could be an ATL-WAW flight rather than JFK-WAW.
ATL-WAW would be an unmitigated disaster. Any carrier which is going to try WAW is going to need the VFR traffic from Chicago, New York, and Toronto. Why would anyone connect in ATL when they can fly WAW direct for less money?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
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