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CO/Dl Planning To Start Service To Poland?  
User currently offlineFLY764 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 114 posts, RR: 3
Posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6309 times:

http://www.polskieradio.pl/thenews/lifestyle/?id=79116

I stumbled upon this interesting article, I always thought this would be a great market for CO to start out of EWR. Thoughts?

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDiscoverCSG From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 832 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6238 times:

The problem is that CO mainly has just 752's for international expansion.

EWR-TXL is 3980 miles according to Great Circle Mapper, and this is considered to be really pushing the westbound range of the 752, to the point where fuel stops are sometimes required.

EWR-WAW is 4278 miles. My guess is the extra 298 miles would be the deal-breaker here.


User currently offlineGreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 568 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6183 times:

Cleveland has a large Polish population (and could feed from Chicago). So, a CLE-AMS-WAW routing may be very lucrative for CO, hitting two new markets from CLE and one new station (WAW), and could be done with a 757 (fueling at AMS).

User currently offlineFLY764 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 114 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6126 times:

Maybe Continental would some how utilize a 762 if they were to open up Warsaw. Continental can swap a 757 for the 762 that will be running EWR-MAD this summer. There is also a 762 that runs EWR-CDG 3-4 times a week which I am sure could be switched to a 757 if need be. I guess time will tell.

User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23011 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5948 times:



Quoting Greenair727 (Reply 2):
Cleveland has a large Polish population (and could feed from Chicago).

LO is an excellent choice for those in Chicago and, more generally, I think LO is the problem with service to Poland. If you look at the secondary markets that DL and CO have chosen to serve from New York, in no case do you see a competitor as formidable as LO and in many cases you don't see a competitor at all. LO is no SQ, but it certainly does the job, and given its lower labor costs does the job more cheaply than can DL or CO.

If DL or CO were to start service to Poland, I'd look for service to southern Poland, likely KRK but maybe KTW (not that there's a whole lot of distance between the two). There's significantly less competition there than at WAW, and while Warsaw is the political and arguably the economic capital of Poland, both the tourist and the VFR traffic is more heavily concentrated in the southern part of the country.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 23
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5934 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 4):
If DL or CO were to start service to Poland, I'd look for service to southern Poland, likely KRK but maybe KTW (not that there's a whole lot of distance between the two). There's significantly less competition there than at WAW, and while Warsaw is the political and arguably the economic capital of Poland, both the tourist and the VFR traffic is more heavily concentrated in the southern part of the country.

Remember that there were LO-nonstops even from RZE to NYC (IIRC) last summer using B767.
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23011 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5925 times:



Quoting HT (Reply 5):
Remember that there were LO-nonstops even from RZE to NYC (IIRC) last summer using B767.

Yeah; given how poor Podkarpacie (sp?) is, I suspect they were almost exclusively VFR traffic (and, FWIW, a really smart move given the ability to tap into parts of Belarus and Ukraine as well as southeast Poland).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineXtoler From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5899 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 4):
If DL or CO were to start service to Poland, I'd look for service to southern Poland, likely KRK but maybe KTW (not that there's a whole lot of distance between the two). There's significantly less competition there than at WAW, and while Warsaw is the political and arguably the economic capital of Poland, both the tourist and the VFR traffic is more heavily concentrated in the southern part of the country.

Would that be because Americans want to buy cheap stuff in the Czech Republic? Sorry, just a thought, after the Cold War, there were a lot of tours offered to southern Poland and the Czech Republic on American leased military bases, mostly in Germany. My mother-in-law was no stranger to Eger and Karlovy Vary on the weekends.



EMB145 F/A, F/E, J41 F/A, F/E, because my wife clipped my wings, armchair captain
User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 23
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5820 times:



Quoting Xtoler (Reply 7):
Would that be because Americans want to buy cheap stuff in the Czech Republic?

Usually not. Lots of people from the Podkarpacie region have emigrated to the U.S. These (and their descendants) are visiting relatives in Poland as well as Poles are visiting relatives in the U.S. Add to that "tourism" as reason or travelling in both directions.
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5436 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5724 times:



Quoting Xtoler (Reply 7):
Would that be because Americans want to buy cheap stuff in the Czech Republic?

The Czech, as my son calls it (cf. The Dominican), is a terrific place to visit, but I can't recall any bargains for Americans. How many garnets can one person use?

Quoting FLY764 (Reply 3):
Continental can swap a 757 for the 762 that will be running EWR-MAD this summer.

Too much BizFirst to MAD to make that swap. Unless they tap the used aircraft market, CO is out of bullets until 787's start arriving; and given the slowdown, that may not be all bad.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineCOalways From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5502 times:

CO has a handful of 767 destinations that they can swap with a 757. Only time will tell what there going to use for the new destination and when the start date will be. Hopefully they can annouce service next year that would be GREAT!!

User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5272 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5453 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 4):
If you look at the secondary markets that DL and CO have chosen to serve from New York, in no case do you see a competitor as formidable as LO and in many cases you don't see a competitor at all. LO is no SQ, but it certainly does the job, and given its lower labor costs does the job more cheaply than can DL or CO.

However, don't forget that if DL does indeed choose to serve WAW, it is entirely possible that it could be an ATL-WAW flight rather than JFK-WAW.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineMats From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 631 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5348 times:

I think that Newark-Prague and Newark-Moscow/Sheremetyevo are more likely. These are SkyTeam hubs so there would be connecting traffic on both sides.

User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5201 times:



Quoting Mats (Reply 12):
Newark-Moscow/Sheremetyevo are more likely

Be interesting to see if CO will now want to enter SVO if they attempt another MOW run. Last time was DME, though that was before SU was a SkyTeam member. Even more interesting though is that their attempt at EWR-MOW prior to that saw them wanting to codeshare with SU from not only New York but also Miami as well.


User currently offlineKochamLOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4987 times:



Quoting OA412 (Reply 11):
However, don't forget that if DL does indeed choose to serve WAW, it is entirely possible that it could be an ATL-WAW flight rather than JFK-WAW.

True. A lot of Polish have migrated to areas like Florida. I wonder how the load factor on an ATL-WAW would be.
Who would be first, DL or CO? anybody?


User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1884 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4811 times:



Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 1):
The problem is that CO mainly has just 752's for international expansion.

Only for the spokes in Europe that are used to connect EWR directly to feed the transatlantic traffic through that hub. Warsaw would get 767-200ER, if launched.

Quoting Greenair727 (Reply 2):
CLE-AMS-WAW routing may be very lucrative for CO, hitting two new markets from CLE and one new station (WAW), and could be done with a 757 (fueling at AMS

That's a recipe for disaster. Most business travellers would choose LO due to their nonstop service, saving connection time. Besides, I believe CO already runs connection through AMS as a codeshare with KL on AMS-WAW segment.

Quoting FLY764 (Reply 3):
Maybe Continental would some how utilize a 762 if they were to open up Warsaw.

Bingo! If they open the route, 767-200ER would be the main equipment operating it. Loads permitting, it may get swapped for 767-400ER. The summer traffic alone would justify it.

Quoting FLY764 (Reply 3):
I am sure could be switched to a 757 if need be

EWR - WAW will never be run on 757. It doesn't have range and it would need a tech stop on both outbound and return segments.

Quoting HT (Reply 5):
Remember that there were LO-nonstops even from RZE to NYC (IIRC) last summer using B767

They are resuming on June 5th, this time as a year-round service.



STOP TERRORRUSSIA!!!
User currently offlineMilan320 From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 869 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4599 times:



Quoting Xtoler (Reply 7):
Would that be because Americans want to buy cheap stuff in the Czech Republic?

No that is not it. Believe it or not, the southern part of Poland is very beautiful. Although, personally, I prefer Warsaw to Krakow, the southern part of Poland constitutes what were parts of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, hence a corridor of very interesting places which include Souther Poland, Slovakia, Czech Republic, etc.

Furthermore, the largest and most famous of all the Nazi concentration camps, Oswiecim (a.k.a Auschwitz) is in the southern part of the country.

/Milan320



I accept bribes ... :-)
User currently offlineDazeflight From Germany, joined Jun 1999, 580 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4493 times:



Quoting Milan320 (Reply 16):
I prefer Warsaw to Krakow

Now that is something I definitely do not understand. Warsaw is a shithole compared to Krakow.


User currently offline3MilesToWRO From Poland, joined Mar 2006, 280 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4265 times:



Quoting Dazeflight (Reply 17):
Now that is something I definitely do not understand. Warsaw is a shithole compared to Krakow.

There's something about it with Swedes. Our capital was moved from Krakow to Warsaw by king Zygmunt III whom we acquired, surprisingly, from Swedish dynasty Wasa  Wink


User currently offlineORDagent From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 823 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3910 times:

LO is a very tough competitor to their home market. They shift capacity for the summer peak season and cut it heavily in the winter. The market is not very high yield. However as Poland intigrates more and more tightly witht the EU and the economy expands high yield traffic will grow. At least LO is Star Alliance but AFAIK the C class product is not at the top tier...yet.

User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23011 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3711 times:



Quoting OA412 (Reply 11):
However, don't forget that if DL does indeed choose to serve WAW, it is entirely possible that it could be an ATL-WAW flight rather than JFK-WAW.

ATL-WAW would be an unmitigated disaster. Any carrier which is going to try WAW is going to need the VFR traffic from Chicago, New York, and Toronto. Why would anyone connect in ATL when they can fly WAW direct for less money?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
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