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Is Fighting In Palestine/Israel Affecting El Al?  
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8092 posts, RR: 54
Posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1567 times:

All politics aside (I know what I think anyway), how are loads on El Al affected since the beginning of the Al Aqsa Intafada? Last two times I've been through LHR I've only seen LY 757s, whereas it used to be mostly 747s (767s were the smallest a/c). I know it's winter but I can't believe any tourists are going there at the moment or planning to in 2001. VFR and ethnic traffic probably holding up reasonably, and I bet there's a lot of journos / politicians / etc heading for the action, but it must be having quite an affect. Haven't Israir or someone deferred some deliveries or leased out some a/c recently? Anyone know anything?


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRajno1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1499 times:

For obvious reasons non-essential travel to Israel is at a minimum. I do recall reading somewhere that El Al were cutting down on flights to the US as a result, and I guess this explains the smaller planes at LHR.

Also, now that Sharon has been elected, I can't really see the situation getting better for the airline.


User currently offlineEl Al 001 From Israel, joined Oct 1999, 1063 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1472 times:

Hey Cedarjet.

By searching a bit with the search engine, i'm sure you would have find the answers you are looking for.
Anyway i dont mind helping you with that....

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/343773/
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/383067/

El Al's loads are not so great as they used to be, But the company is hendeling with the situation ok.
The airline uses the 737 as its horse-working a/c at the moment to keep the high loads.
The airline starts flying the new 777 next week to NYC.
While capacity to most of the western destination was reduced, the capacity to the Far East was increased by 100% (!).

El Al schedules to the F. East used to be:
1 weekly TLV-HKG 767
1 weekly TLV-BOM-HKG 747
2 weekly TLV-BOM-BKK 747
1 weekly TLV-PEK 767
1 weekly TLV-BKK 747.
1 weekly TLV-DEL 767

Today's schdules:
4 weekly TLV-BKK 747/744
2 weekly TLV-HKG 744
3 weekly TLV-BOM 767/757
2 weekly TLV-PEK 767
1 weekly TLV-DEL 767


User currently offlineTWAneedsNOhelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1451 times:

Well, all politics aside, (I too, know my view on the topic), I think that yes this is a pretty hard time for LY. European tourist traffic has falled off dramatically, but LY has refused to lower fares. Probably a good thing, because lower fares won't encoruage travellers to visit amidst the terror.

Anyway, I know El Al 001 can better illustrate this, but LY has downsized its aircraft to Europe mainly flying 738s and 752s. I assumed once the 772s start arriving, we will see those in America in place of the 747s flying now.

Don't remember anything about Israir or Arkia deffering deliveries. Arkia only ordered about 2 or 3 753s and Israir recently (but prior to the current troubles) upgraded from a 73G to a 738.

Lets hope for peace.


User currently offlineAmir From Syria, joined Dec 1999, 1254 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1433 times:

Hi

out of FRA, LY and LH loads on the TLV flights have gone down sharply. Usually seat load factors on those flights are alomost 80% year round! now it is far less.
Most of LY's flights to FRA are now operated with the 737.

So coming back to the question of Cedarjet, yes the problems have a big impact on LY.

Rgds
Amir


User currently offlineKUGN From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 615 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1427 times:

So what is EL AL doing with its 747 fleet? Are they wet leasing it somewhere?

User currently offlineA380 From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 658 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1417 times:

Does LY have good load factor at HKG? Or other Asian destinations in general?

User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8092 posts, RR: 54
Reply 7, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1416 times:

El Al 001 (thanks for the links btw) and TWAneedsNOhelp, I suspect our views on the source of the conflict may differ but TW's closing sentiment is one shared by all. Well said.


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineLY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1398 times:

Arkia is offering to lease one of its 3 757-300's to another airline, and sell 2 737-200's (they were replaced with ATR-72's on the Tel-Aviv - Eilat route), thats after they reduced their working week to 4 days.
LY sold one of its 747 classics (4X-AXD) to another airline, another 747-200 (4X-AXB)will be used for spare parts. Those 747-200's will be replaced by LY's new 777-200ER's.

-Does anybody knows if Arkia found someone to lease the 753 to?

-When did Israir upgraded their 737-700 to 737-800's? How many of those do they have now?

LY744.



Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
User currently offlineTWAneedsNOhelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1380 times:

Cedarjet,

 Smile

Take care my friend.

rgds
russell


User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8092 posts, RR: 54
Reply 10, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1350 times:

Which brings me to my next question... Why is capacity needed to Asia - Hong Kong and Bangkok et al - all of a sudden? Jews don't have historic or cultural links there, and they are not cities that generate a lot of outbound tourist traffic like Japan. Surely Asians are no more willing to fly to a war zone than Europeans or Americans? So who is buying the seats?


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineRyanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 16
Reply 11, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1348 times:

Cedarjet, I guess it's because of the lack of holiday destinations in the Far East available to Israelis. Normally the tourist choice would be split between Thailand and Hong Kong because Malaysia does not grant entry to Israeli passport holders. I assume that Indonesia is the same. So volume will be high on the Israeli-friendly countries.


I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
User currently offlineTWAneedsNOhelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1343 times:

I tend to think its not so much holiday traffic as it is business. Neither Indonesia nor Malaysia place any restrictions on Israeli citizens entrance, however, with an 88% Islamic population in Indonesia, militant rebels, and a depressed economy, Indonesia isn't the hottest travel destination for Israelis. Indonesia, besides the Aceh mess, is in serious trouble and radical Islamic factions are attempting to turn the country into a strict Islamic state with restrictions on alcohol and nightlife. Yeah, I dont think Israelis see any need to visit this archipeligo.

Malaysia, on the other hand is significantly more stable, and while always lite, Malaysia is not much of a draw for Israeli tourist dollars.

However, Israel's burgeoning high tech industry has seen a tremendous rise in the exchange of people, technology, and products with Japan and China. So, while your right the Jewish people don't have prolific links to the far east, this is certainly more about capitalism and investment than anything else.

rgds
russ


User currently offlineRyanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 16
Reply 13, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1329 times:

I'm sure if you check with the Malaysian embassy that Israeli passport holders are not allowed to enter Malaysia. I know this was the case 6 months ago, but of course things might have changed (although unlikely).


I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
User currently offlineLXLGU From South Africa, joined Sep 2000, 1085 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1322 times:

Malaysia still does not grant entry to Israeli passport holders

User currently offlineAmir From Syria, joined Dec 1999, 1254 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1318 times:

Hi,

Actually i think that its a combination of both: Leisure trafic and business hi-tec pax.

Attn. Ryanb741: Entry to Malaysia is def. not possible for holders of Israeli Passports.

Rgds
Amir


User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8092 posts, RR: 54
Reply 16, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1317 times:

Sorry, still don't get it. Investment in Israeli business is plummeting in the face of the hostilities, why would Asian companies suddenly start investing? The future viability of the country as a going concern is far from clear, so I find it hard to believe that the redeployment of the fleet is in response to rising Asian business traffic. Why didn't LY lay on the extra frequencies a few years ago when it looked like Israel and Palestine was going to 'settle out of court'? I bet there was a lot more trade and investment compared to now and the immediate future. Who is on the flights? And has there been any Israelis leaving the country to escape the escalating troubles? Going to stay with relatives in London, NY etc? I'd be tempted to get out of town for a while.


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineAmir From Syria, joined Dec 1999, 1254 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1307 times:

Hi Cedarjet,

i think that it is not really the issue of asian companies investing in IL. What i notice is that especially israeli Hi-Tec companies are going abroad to the Hi-Tech centers to be closer to the 'Market' and to generate new funds.
For instance in the US there have been many IPO's at the NASDAQ and even in Germany (Neuer Market) a highflyier this year was Orad Tec.

As for Coach travellers. Some asian destinations are getting more and more poplar and quite inexpensive!

Take care
Rgds
amir


User currently offlineCapt.Picard From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1302 times:

I'm surprised at the extent of LY's penetratrion into the UK market. Not only do they fly to LHR, but they also fly into MAN and STN, and I haven't heard them talking about pulling out either!!

Don't know what they use to STN, but flew in with their 757 to MAN in January.

Is LY still owned by the Government, and would privatisation mean LY would be free to fly on the Sabbath??

I know this is digressing from the main topic, but I'm curious, as I know the Sabbath rule incurs heavy financial penalties for them.


User currently offlineTWAneedsNOhelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1287 times:

I still can't find any evidence (online that is) of Malaysia denying Israeli passport holders entry.... I wouldn't be surprised if its true, it would be expected in such a society, but I would like to see something in writing from some official or semi-official source.

Cedarjet, investment in Israeli companies is not plummeting. Toursit traffic is of course, but the Israeli high-tech industry is booming. Amir is correct, however, that a large number of Israeli companies have set up offices and moved their stock from the Tel Aviv exchange to those in the US and Europe. In fact, more Israeli companies went public last year in the USA than companies from any other country. Firms such as Checkpoint Technology, Marabalis, creator of ICQ (now part of AOL), Akamai, and many many others have moved out of Israel in search of western investment. Asian investment also at a stunning all time high is uniterrupted.

rgds
russ


User currently offlineTWAneedsNOhelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1282 times:

one more thing....

Cedarjet...

".....The future viability of the country as a going concern is far from clear...."

Your kidding right?


User currently offlineRyanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 16
Reply 21, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1281 times:

The only places where I have seen that Malaysia forbids entry to Israelis in in the Lonely Planet guides, as well as towards the end of a flight BKK-KUL where everyone gets handed out an immigration form (the ones with the warning 'Death for drug traffickers under Malaysian Law'. Imagine being an Israeli, and the first time you find out that you're not allowed to enter is just before you land! It's okay for us Brits!

Also, another annoying thing is that you will be forbidden entry to Malaysia (and most Arab countries) if you simply have an Israeli Immigration stamp in your passport, or if they can prove that you have visited Israel. This simply means that I can never go to Israel (not that I have any particular desire to go there - I was born in the United Arab emirates). But if I ever needed to go there on business, I would need another passport.



I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
User currently offlineConair From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 196 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1274 times:

I can remember reading about the ban on Israeli passport holders entering Malaysia in the Malaysian Airlines inflight magazine allthough it was a few years ago. Correct me if i'm wrong but I seem to remember reading a few years ago when there were simillar troubles that the Israeli's were recruiting workers from Thailand and other Countries to replace the Palestinian workforce who couldn't enter Israel at the time due to security restriction's.

Conair


User currently offlineAdvancedkid From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 762 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1274 times:

Ryanb741 said it right to the point.
It is somehow understandable that
Israeli pass-holders are denied entry
into most Muslim/Arab countries.
What do you expect if there are not
even diplomatic relations to begin
with?? The "Israeli" state isn't officially
recognized by these countries' governments
and the minds of their populations, and so
do their bretherns in the "occupied" lands.
I don't this is very difficult to grasp.
Kindest regards,
Advancedkid


User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8092 posts, RR: 54
Reply 24, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1274 times:

The impression about inward investment suffering recently is from a few news reports on CNN etc, but it's just that, an impression.

And TWAneedsNOhelp, sorry to say, I am not kidding.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
25 Post contains images TWAneedsNOhelp : You guys don't have a clue do you? Cedarjet, you think this is the first time Israel has experienced intransigence and trouble from its lovely neighbo
26 Post contains images Capt.Picard : Please leave political discussion as much as possible OUT of discussions on this particular board. If you want to have an Arab vs. Israeli discussion,
27 TWAneedsNOhelp : I found it, yes Israelis are denied entry into gorgeous Malaysia. Reminded me when George M Cohan, the famous composer of "Over There" and "I'm a Yank
28 LY744 : El Al definitely suffers financial losses from the government's policy not to fly during Sabbath. Arkia and Israir can fly during Sabbath because they
29 Ryanb741 : TWAneedsnohelp, I feel I should point out that Malaysia is a great country to visit, just in case you offend any Malaysians. Secondly, whilst the majo
30 Cedarjet : TWAneedsNOhelp, so much for open minds... Prat.
31 Whistler CYOW : "I mean do the dates May 1948, October 1956, June 5-10 1967, and October 1973 mean anything to you?" And you forgot to mention 1982 and Osirak back in
32 LXLGU : Ryan74b-Funnily enough you can get into Israel on a Malaysian passport so it is not reciprocal
33 Chepos : I dont get it why is it that u can fly Cairo-Tel Aviv with ELAL and not to Malaysia and Indonesia . Well they have there ideals . Anyway those the Cai
34 Brissie_lions : Well we have heard how this fighting is affecting El Al.... BUT... How is the fighting affecting the operations of Palestinian Airlines and the Gaza I
35 Chepos : That is a very good point . Im not sure but I heard that the Israeli authorities have closed down Gaza airport . This is what I heard somewere . If th
36 Wpr8e : You can enter Malaysia with Israeli stamps on your passport. I just recently traveled to KUL and the Malaysian immigration officer stamped the Malaysi
37 Twaneedsnohelp : wpr8e: Israel has no relations with Malaysia. Other countries Israel has no relations with: Sudan, Chad, Libya, Algeria, Mali, Guinea, Somalia, Yemen,
38 Wpr8e : I agree with you on the relations, but I still entered Malaysia with Ben Gurion Stamps. To add to that, I have some boarder crossing stamps from Rafah
39 Whistler CYOW : "This is what I heard somewere . If this is true its something very unfair ." I think it is fair. Palestine is lucky to even have that airport. Rememb
40 Twaneedsnohelp : Couldn't agree more.
41 Malev#1 : El Al is loosing big time.
42 Early Air : Yes it does, El Al is cutting back on flights because there are not a lit of people that wan to go to Israel at the moment. I was in Israel this past
43 Goldenoras : Sure it is affecting ELAL .I wish that they stop this stupid action against the Palastanians and live in peace . Any political incident has a direct a
44 Toda,Reisinger : "stop this stupid action against the Palestinians" As I see, chutzpa has no limits. This forum is SUPPOSED to be apolitical, but accusing and attackin
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