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Southwest Tried To Hide Safety Problems  
User currently offlineSkyHigh777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 377 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3892 times:

Hi all,

Was reading an article on CNN where officials say that Southwest pressured the FAA to keep out the two inspectors who noticed the problems with the planes and blew the whistle on WN.

Very interesting things. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if other airlines were doing the same.

Here is a link to the article:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/02/southwest.faa.inspection/index.html


Prepare for take-off.
45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoeing6600 From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3863 times:

I don't know how much of this I believe! WN has always been known for its saftey... There are always two sides to a story.

User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3809 times:



Quoting Boeing6600 (Reply 1):
WN has always been known for its saftey

...so was Concorde for most of its history.
But that was a reputation which masked an esoteric; but still well-recognized for its seriousness, by those in the know; problem.


User currently offlineChris133 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3638 times:



Quoting SkyHigh777 (Thread starter):
Was reading an article on CNN where officials say that Southwest pressured the FAA to keep out the two inspectors who noticed the problems with the planes and blew the whistle on WN.

You do realize that even CNN is in the ratings business and doesn't always tell the full story when they report on issues. Just remember that almost all news agencies sensationalize to get people to watch/read their broad cast. The best people can do is not speculate and just listen to the facts for yourself. On a side note, do other industries (railroad, buses or even our own cars) have the extreme requirements for inspections that airlines do. If one or two pins are out of place on a train track, any resulting accident could be equal if not a lot worse than an A/C, but nobody says that ever inch of track has to be inspected every year. Yet there have been more train accidents in the last 2 years than airline accidents in the past 10 (per NTSB reports). Just something for the public to consider.


User currently offlineSBN580 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 401 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3540 times:

The congressional hearing on this is on live at cbs.com as I write on 3 April 2008 at 11:01 am EDT.


North Central: Good People Made Their Airline Great! FLY MD-90 POWER! Keep 'em Flying DELTA Family!
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8408 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3518 times:

The story that is emerging is that the FAA had some rather informal, "cozy" relationships between inspectors and airline mx directors.

This is not a 100% bad thing. They can discuss things openly and candidly. It appears that FAA inspectors were allowing some airlines, including UA, AA, WN and others, to delay MX that was considered non-critical. Of course, this went against the letter of the law.

It is a slippery slope. Either you obey the regs as they are written, or you do not. It appears that some of these items ) were INDEED flight safety critical (such as the fatigue crack inspections). So, this "informal" relationship was resulting in the approved delays of some very important required mx work.

These violations ultimately went so far that some "good ol' boys" at the FAA and airlines finally got whistles blown on them, which is how that is supposed to work. It's interesting, sort of like finding out that cops deal just a little bit of heroin in their free time.


User currently offlineBP1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 593 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3504 times:

You bet WN is responsible. WN is the true definition of the good ole boy network. "Ding, you are now free to crash about the country." Smoke up a carton Herb, your airline is finally being exposed for what it is.

Cheers,
BP1



"First To Fly The A-380" / 26 October 2007 SYD-SIN Inaugural
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3435 times:



Quoting BP1 (Reply 6):
"Ding, you are now free to crash about the country."

??

Quoting BP1 (Reply 6):
Smoke up a carton Herb, your airline is finally being exposed for what it is.

Safe and profitable? Not sure your point.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4002 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3423 times:



Quoting SkyHigh777 (Thread starter):
Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if other airlines were doing the same.

What..?

It surprised me that this was happening at Southwest and it would surprise me if any other airlines were doing the same. Cutting corners on inspections and trying to cover tracks later is a big deal.


User currently offlineB757capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3398 times:

http://transportation.edgeboss.net/w..._transportation-tnilive_070118.asx


The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3385 times:



Quoting Boeing6600 (Reply 1):
I don't know how much of this I believe! WN has always been known for its saftey... There are always two sides to a story.

They have also been known to steal supplies out of other carriers aircraft, such as medical supplies and such.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2167 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3300 times:

Don't know about stealing medkits but Southwest is getting raked over the coals in the hearing......not good.

User currently offlineXJETFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 326 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3275 times:

The true question is, has WN been really safe or really lucky?

As many of you know I do not fly WN because of my experiences with them. With that being said, I think WN overall is a good safe running fleet. There might be an idiot who is trying to cover up their own tracks so they do not lose their job. But many companies have these kind of employee's, hence they usually get fired.

I hope WN can move forward and get this behind them and make corrections.

This could never had been another airline trying to sink the competition could it???


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3246 times:



Quoting Incitatus (Reply 8):
Cutting corners on inspections and trying to cover tracks later is a big deal.

...and has historically been found to be present in just about any manner of operation in the transportation business. And that includes major carriers.

  • Perhaps the most vivid example of all, would be AA/CO/UA's corner-cutting in DC10 mtx back in the day, and we saw what happened because of that.

  • AS's jackscrew mtx, or the lack thereof, also springs to mind.

  • And of course, let us not forget CO's (in)famous titanium strip, combined with AF's genius idea of operating a Concorde without an autoalignment spacer for several cycles on end.

  • User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
    Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3246 times:



    Quoting XJETFlyer (Reply 12):
    The true question is, has WN been really safe or really lucky?

    There is no such thing as luck on a large scale. Luck comes from preparation and practice. Considering how many people WN flies each and every day, the idea that they were only lucky is really not plausible.



    Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
    User currently offlineBooDog From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 257 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3196 times:

    CNN. com did a little counter-balancing with this story:

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/02/faa.audit/index.html?iref=newssearch

    "Airlines 99% compliant on "air-worthiness"



    B1B - best looking aircraft ever.
    User currently offlineBoeing6600 From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 45 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3196 times:



    Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 10):
    They have also been known to steal supplies out of other carriers aircraft, such as medical supplies and such.

    Really!? Haha thats kind of funny... When did that take place? More info please.


    User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2241 posts, RR: 9
    Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3111 times:



    Quoting BP1 (Reply 6):
    You bet WN is responsible. WN is the true definition of the good ole boy network. "Ding, you are now free to crash about the country." Smoke up a carton Herb, your airline is finally being exposed for what it is.

    Ah, OK. What is it?
    All I have seen is consistent profit, well planned growth, and mostly happy customers and employees. Their safety record is not matched. The incidents they have been involved in did not result in any passenger fatalities or smoking craters. So what's your point?



    I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
    User currently offlineJerald01 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 161 posts, RR: 2
    Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3064 times:



    Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 10):
    They have also been known to steal supplies out of other carriers aircraft, such as medical supplies and such.

    Proove it.



    "There may be old pilots, and there may be bold pilots, but there are darn few green cows"
    User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2007 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3049 times:



    Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 17):
    Ah, OK. What is it?
    All I have seen is consistent profit, well planned growth, and mostly happy customers and employees. Their safety record is not matched. The incidents they have been involved in did not result in any passenger fatalities or smoking craters. So what's your point?

    Here's the thing about BP1. He's not interested in actually making a useful point on here. He's just interested in blowing smoke. Southwest's safety record speaks for itself. And if indeed they engaged in illegal activities like pressuring the FAA to keep inspectors out, they should be penalized as such. But to say that Southwest Airlines is an unsafe carrier is totally baseless.



    Good goes around!
    User currently offlineSkyHigh777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 377 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2989 times:



    Quoting Incitatus (Reply 8):
    What..?

    It surprised me that this was happening at Southwest and it would surprise me if any other airlines were doing the same. Cutting corners on inspections and trying to cover tracks later is a big deal.

    Well given the recent news that AA and DL grounded a bunch of their planes after all the news emerged regarding WN leads me to believe that corners are being cut somewhere...

    BUT, at the same time I know that the FAA standards for aircraft safety inspections are extremely high, so rarely do I feel unsafe flying on any U.S. airline whether it be WN, AA, or DL. With that being said, however, I do think that these instances need to be investigated further to keep the bar raised on aircraft safety inspections.



    Prepare for take-off.
    User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8408 posts, RR: 3
    Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2903 times:



    Quoting SkyHigh777 (Reply 20):
    With that being said, however, I do think that these instances need to be investigated further to keep the bar raised on aircraft safety inspections.

    Agreed. Stories like this prove that we DO have a safe airline system. Even in a great system, there are problems. Those problems need to be highlighted in order for us to assess the situation as it truly is.


    User currently offlineB757capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1366 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2893 times:

    All i can say is if you folks haven't been listening to the Senate's testimony, YOU NEED TO.

    I have lots of friends at WN and will not make comments but this is SO worth listening to.



    The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
    User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
    Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2836 times:



    Quoting B757capt (Reply 22):
    All i can say is if you folks haven't been listening to the Senate's testimony, YOU NEED TO.

    Minor quibble, but they're not Senate Hearings today, but those of one of the House's committees. Your point is still valid, of course...


    User currently offlineTUIflyer From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 206 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2819 times:

    The first priority of DL, WN and anyother airline should be the safety of it's passengers. We have all seen what happens when corners are cut with maintainance with AS and practically anyother airline, unfortunately the large majority of airlines will always put PROFIT first! I wouldn't expect this sort of behaviour from WN.

    Poor maintainance ALWAYS comes back and bites airlines in the ass, when aircraft crash and people are injured it creates tonnes of unwanted publicity - what's the point?

    I say to the FAA take a hard line with these airlines, fine them till their close to collapse - then they might get the picture!

    TUIflyer



    Don't just travel, travel with a smile. . .
    25 BP1 : If you are listening to the testimony, your answer is there. The Southwest team is stretching the truth. Listening to Kelleher is nauseating - - all o
    26 APFPilot1985 : Really really interesting hearings today. Where are all the WN fanboys now?
    27 AT : Of course we have not heard the full story yet, but based on the little we have heard today, it seems Southwest is in for some genuine trouble. Does t
    28 Post contains links Stratosphere : I know what Burnsie is talking about he is refering to this incident at MDW. http://cbs2chicago.com/topstories/Anthony.J.Donato.2.329923.html
    29 TxAgKuwait : Well, I'lve been working all day thus can't say that I've seen the hearings. Wall Street doesn't see, particularly worried about them.....Southwest's
    30 Aerobalance : Not a fanboy but still flying them to Vegas this Sat., hell of a lot safer than driving there!
    31 Hiflyer : Wrong....Southwest continued to fly aircraft the FAA ordered grounded....more than once. No one else did.
    32 Aerobalance : Still an interesting take on how industry and government became cozy with each other, it ends up a PR smear for WN at this time. Have all the effectiv
    33 Arrow : The picture being painted by those whistleblowers is not pretty. In their opinion, safety was being compromised by a failure to adhere to maintenance
    34 N471WN : SWA has never lost a passenger life in 37 years and read what Boeing and what former NTSB Member Greg Feith said about whether SWA planes were ever op
    35 OPNLguy : I've got a question here. How many people on this thread have actually taken the time to read the copy of the initial letter that FAA sent Southwest?
    36 Silver1SWA : Thank you, thank you, thank you! I have sat around reading these threads with a lot of frustration and many packs of cotton to suppress the bleeding
    37 Ikramerica : WN is not without guilt here, if it's all true. But that is not the same thing as saying the planes are unsafe or will 'crash' about the country, or a
    38 B757capt : AMEN TO THAT. This is the exact reason I posted the link to the hearings. If your not going to read the stuff that is out in the factual information
    39 APFPilot1985 : I have, heck i was commenting on it when it first came out. When you were saying it was all unsubstantiated. You can't honestly be serious? Why shoul
    40 Tbird : I don't recall WN ever crashing? Do you? Even the incident at MDW wasn't a crash..I recall lots of other airlines having deadly crashes but not WN. T
    41 OPNLguy : Yes, but did you actually read the FAA's letter?
    42 APFPilot1985 : Again, yes I did. I also watched much of the hearings today.
    43 Jetblueguy22 : NO WAY! They tried to hide a 10 million dollar fine and being in the public's eyes as a dangerous airline (even though they aren't). Im shocked anyone
    44 Socalfive : Because of the C.Y.A. factor. These inspectors are in SERIOUS C.Y.A. mode right now. Southwest really can't lie because if they do or are, the mounta
    45 AirframeAS : Yes, I have. I give WN the benefit of the doubt. Crap happens...these things happen. No one is perfect. I'm sure WN is fixing all this up to make sur
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