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Without ATA, What Will Happen To WN Flights To HI?  
User currently offlineLuv2cattlecall From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 8866 times:
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Sorry if this has already been posted, but what does ATA ceasing operations mean for WN flights to Hawai'i? I ask because I've been stocking up on WN RR Points for trip there with some friends.

I realize that there are much more serious/deep issues related to this, and apologize if I'm coming off as ignorant or selfish, not my intent by any means.


When you have to breaststroke to your connecting flight...it's a crash!
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 8779 times:

This is a very good question.



What will happen? Will WN find someone in the interim to do the lift or will they stop alltogether until they can get ETOPS certification on their own fleet?



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineOURBOEING From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 475 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 8694 times:



Quoting Lexy (Reply 1):
What will happen? Will WN find someone in the interim to do the lift or will they stop alltogether until they can get ETOPS certification on their own fleet?

I posed this question on the other ATA thread that we have going.

Do you think WN would be interested in buying TZ's 757 fleet? Their 757s are fairly young, especially the 753s.


OURBOEING


User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 8675 times:



Quoting OURBOEING (Reply 2):
Do you think WN would be interested in buying TZ's 757 fleet? Their 757s are fairly young, especially the 753s.

As much as the enthusiast and photographer in me would like to see this happen, I don't believe it will. Would be cool to see though!

I would imagine CO would pick up these 753's or something along those lines.



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineMjzair From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 398 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 8617 times:

Perhaps USair is interested in the 757's. Didnt they already purchase a few former ATA 75's.
That being said, this is truely a sad week so far. My best wishes for all those that lost their jobs this week.


User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 8523 times:
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I could see CO being interested in the remaining 753's. And, yes, USAirways could interested in the ETOPS 752's. Is it possible for AS to pick up some of ATA's ETOPS 738's?

User currently offlineEMB170 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 646 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 8468 times:

DL already has a few of TZ's old ETOPS capable 757-200s. IIRC, one of our friends at DL told us that said birds are being used on Hawaii flights from SLC and the west coast. Might DL be interested in acquiring a few more?


Can passenger jets fly as fast as my feet do? Let's find out...
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 8411 times:
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Quoting EMB170 (Reply 6):
DL already has a few of TZ's old ETOPS capable 757-200s. IIRC, one of our friends at DL told us that said birds are being used on Hawaii flights from SLC and the west coast. Might DL be interested in acquiring a few more?

Didn't DL pick up some or all of ATA's P&W-powered 757's. I believe ATA now has all RR-powered 757's. I don't DL wants another engine-type to deal with.

As I mentioned in a thread early on when AQ quit flying. OAK went from a lot of HI flights to none in less than a week.

There's going to be a lot more stranded pax in the coming days.

Maybe some of them can fly on C-17's back to mainland from Hickam.


User currently offlineBOSSAN From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 255 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 8359 times:

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....59&highlight=&loc=interstitialskip

Quote:
DALLAS, April 3, 2008 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Today, ATA Airlines, Inc. announced its plans to immediately discontinue all scheduled passenger service. Southwest Airlines (NYSE: LUV) and ATA Airlines have had a codeshare agreement since February 2005. This partnership recently allowed the airlines to exchange passengers and their checked baggage at Chicago Midway Airport; Las Vegas McCarran International; Phoenix Sky Harbor International; and Oakland International. The service was available to select ATA destinations with a single ticketing option through either airline. Southwest also marketed and sold ATA-only flights. These arrangements ended with today's announcement from ATA.



User currently offlineTN757Flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 8331 times:

People are assuming Southwest has to have a presence in Hawaii. They could have gone there under their own metal at any time if they had so desired. The TZ code-share was a rather painless way for them to do it without affecting their own bottom line. The email I got from them this morning explained they will be rebooking pax elsewhere. Since Hawaii is generally considered a low yield market, I don't think it's a given WN will go in now themselves. While they may choose to do so, it's a big jump for them and one they may not want to undertake in the current economic climate. Does anyone know what kind of $$$ they actually made from the TZ code share? My guess would be that it was not that significant, but I would surely agree to see some legitimate figures from someone who knows.

User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 933 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 8263 times:



Quoting TN757Flyer (Reply 9):
Does anyone know what kind of $$$ they actually made from the TZ code share? My guess would be that it was not that significant, but I would surely agree to see some legitimate figures from someone who knows.

I remember reading $30 million in additional revenue a few months ago. Don't quote me on that though...my memory isn't the best sometimes.


User currently offlineTN757Flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 8144 times:



Quoting Joeljack (Reply 10):
I remember reading $30 million in additional revenue a few months ago

Thanks..any idea what time frame that covered? Just curious to try and put it into perspective.


User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 933 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 8009 times:



Quoting TN757Flyer (Reply 11):
Quoting Joeljack (Reply 10):
I remember reading $30 million in additional revenue a few months ago

Thanks..any idea what time frame that covered? Just curious to try and put it into perspective.

Per year.


User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4002 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 7905 times:
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Thankyou for starting this thread. Some threads become so long, it gets difficult to keep up and decifer it all.

Firstly my sympothy goes out to all TZ employees and their loved one's.

Two shut downs in one week is quite frightening. What's going to happen next?????

Are there any thoughts on who might pick up TZ's Hawaii flights?
How long would it take WN to take over/pickup these flights IF they were to do so? I know there's a lot more that goes into this answer. I know that Hawaii is generally low yielding but maybe WN can find a way to make it work??? It seems obvious they would need to buy/lease TZ's 738 ETOPS to do anything soon. I don't see them picking up the 75S since they have always been a 73X carrier. I bet this could cause a lot of problems.
LAX:
Does HA have any extra 763s to pick up a flight or two of TZs out of LAX to OGG since they don't currently flight that route?
I know there's been a lot of discussion about AS picking up some of these routes. With their large LAX operation, it seems like it would be a natural fit but then we can argue about it not fitting their business model????
Might CO revert back to a 764 on their LAX-HNL flight from a 752 to add additional capacity (even for a short time)?
Might NW, DL, UA add capacity in these markets as well??

PHX & LAS:
Since US has large operations their, does anyone know if they will be adding flights to replace the TZ trips? Possibly HA adding capacity as well?

OAK:
Oh my they are down to nothing. What will happen here?

Thoughts???

Regards
LACA773


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16822 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 7779 times:



Quoting LACA773 (Reply 13):
Might CO revert back to a 764 on their LAX-HNL flight from a 752 to add additional capacity (even for a short time)?

What CO might do is convert LAX-HNL to a 757-300, the new delivered 757-300s CO acquired are not ETOPS certified. The 8 (and possibly further four) 757-300s CO acquired from ATA are ETOPS certified.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineBarney Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 926 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 7657 times:



Quoting LACA773 (Reply 13):
Two shut downs in one week is quite frightening. What's going to happen next?????

Sadly it was actually 3 - Champion Air shut down Mar 31st.



...from the Banana Republic....
User currently offlinePDXFlyBoy From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 7585 times:



Quoting Barney Captain (Reply 15):
Sadly it was actually 3 - Champion Air shut down Mar 31st.

Champion will close on May 31st.


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4028 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 7533 times:



Quoting Lexy (Reply 3):
I would imagine CO would pick up these 753's or something along those lines



Quoting EMB170 (Reply 6):
DL already has a few of TZ's old ETOPS capable 757-200s. IIRC, one of our friends at DL told us that said birds are being used on Hawaii flights from SLC and the west coast. Might DL be interested in acquiring a few more?

I'm not certain if the said aircraft are RR or P&W powered. as some of the above posts have pointed out, DL did pick up some TZ ETOPs certified 752 a few years ago, and they now use them on SLC/LAX routes to the outer islands in Hawaii at OGG and KOA.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineHNL-Jack From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 818 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7326 times:



Quoting LACA773 (Reply 13):
Does HA have any extra 763s to pick up a flight or two of TZs out of LAX to OGG since they don't currently flight that route?

HA is just about maxed out with its 763's. They have a partial spare aircraft (certain days of the week) that is currently being used to supplement OGG/HNL flights.

HA has A-330's on order, but they are two years away. And, given the lack of 763 aircraft in the marketplace, could it be possible that HA might make a run at the TZ 753's? Pilot transition would appear to be relatively easy due to the similar cockpit to the 763, plus they would be ideal aircraft for HA's mainland neighbor island service. It would allow HA to take 763's to expand deeper into the mainland and/or add capacity out of LA with the loss of both TZ and AQ in the market.



Grew up in the business and continued the family tradition.
User currently onlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1286 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7269 times:



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 7):

Didn't DL pick up some or all of ATA's P&W-powered 757's. I believe ATA now has all RR-powered 757's. I don't DL wants another engine-type to deal with.

No issue for DL as they have enough experience and a good MX operation running with their Trent 892's for their 77E planes.

Leo



Happiness is V1 in Lagos
User currently offlineCV880 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1124 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7221 times:



Quoting LACA773 (Reply 13):
OAK:
Oh my they are down to nothing. What will happen here?

They take BART to SFO and fly UA, HA, or AA or fly via LAX. Would be nice to see HA add OGG back to their sked from SFO.


User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3890 posts, RR: 28
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7119 times:

I really don't think this will have as great of an impact to Hawaii as everyone thinks. Only ITO and OAK will be out of nonstop service to Hawaii. The ITO folks will likely drive to KOA or connect in HNL. Just like with Aloha, the OAK folks will fly from SFO. The demise of these carriers while sad for the employees and families involved are right sizing the market place. Fares will no doubt go up, due to simple supply and demand. Perhaps if the ITO market is lucrative, UA or any other 757 operator could make a go at it. Since UA is a large player in the Hawaii market, I would predict if anyone did indeed step up and fill the void at ITO or OAK, it would be them.

As for Southwest... well, they'll just have to find a new partner or give up the Hawaii market. I'd be willing to bet money they won't go through the ETOPS certification process, crew training and operation set up costs just to serve Hawaii.



AZJ


User currently offlineCBPhoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1551 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4952 times:

I know this is a long shot, but any chance of Southwest getting some of Aloha's 737-700s? They are already ETOPS cert, so technically all Southwest would have to do is get there crews and ops cert and then they technically could fly to Hawaii with there own metal and not introduce a new a/c in the fleet. I know...a long shot, but a somewhat reasonable idea  wave 


ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5075 posts, RR: 55
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4909 times:



Quoting TN757Flyer (Reply 9):
Does anyone know what kind of $$$ they actually made from the TZ code share?



Quoting Joeljack (Reply 10):
I remember reading $30 million in additional revenue a few months ago. Don't quote me on that though...my memory isn't the best sometimes.

= I did a brief search on F41F and in 2007, Q2 they earned (gross) 4.484 million USD and in Q2 they got 4.260 million from TZ.

Cheers,
A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9289 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4834 times:



Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 17):


I'm not certain if the said aircraft are RR or P&W powered. as some of the above posts have pointed out, DL did pick up some TZ ETOPs certified 752 a few years ago, and they now use them on SLC/LAX routes to the outer islands in Hawaii at OGG and KOA.

they are RR birds
The only thing DL might get out of ATA is there 737s



yep.
25 DfwRevolution : The simultaneous departure of both AQ and TZ makes me think WN will finally do something with the Hawaii market. An opportunity of this sort is "once
26 Pohakuloa : you know if they did this and decided to base the crews in Hawaii and have an mx here, yes it would be costly, BUT, there are plenty of people here w
27 DL767captain : Why don't they just buy Aloha's 737s that are Hawaii capable? It would allow them to have commonality with their current fleet compared to buying 757s
28 Etops1 : i think usairways is already looking at getting the ata 757-200 and maybe the 300's for hawaiian ops.
29 Pohakuloa : that wouldnt suprise me that US would look towards getting them actually, as much as i dislike the overall service and customer service outside of CLT
30 Couldbewrong : i am a ramper for us in phx, and our 757 are old, i would love to see them pick up ata's birds, and it will give us more room for our 75's to fly to
31 Jetdeltamsy : Good question. I see SWA ramping up their own Hawaii ASAP. If not, they may link up with Alaska somehow. Alaska code-shares with nearly everyone out
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