Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Boeing 787 Update  
User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1116 posts, RR: 1
Posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 32154 times:

Boeing was supposed to give an update on the 787 program in late March. Then some people started to say early April but nothing seems to be happening. What's up with that?

[Edited 2008-04-03 08:36:56]

217 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBrendows From Norway, joined Apr 2006, 1020 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 32085 times:



Quoting A380900 (Thread starter):
Boeing was supposed to give an update on the 787 program in late March.

They were supposed to study the new delivery schedule and have that study complete by the end of first quarter, but they didn't say that it would be published in late March IIRC.
It will probably be published to the public along with the 1Q results. I'd guess that customers have received the news already.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21544 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 32119 times:

I'd like to know, too. Maybe someone should call them and ask...  Wink


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1116 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 31946 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
I'd like to know, too.

Nice to know I am not alone expecting this! I guess investors want to know too. Aren't they supposed to say something? I understand they don't necessarily have good news but they have to bite the bullet at some point... Can they just postpone the thing indefinitely?


User currently offlineIAD787 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 502 posts, RR: 44
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 31613 times:

Next week. I'm hearing murmurs of Tuesday.


Former FlightBlogger turned Wall Street Journal Aerospace Beat Reporter
User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1116 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 31509 times:



Quoting IAD787 (Reply 4):
I'm hearing murmurs of Tuesday.

Thanks!


User currently offlineStarrion From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1126 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 31077 times:

@ IAD787

To paraphrase a famous doctor : I am more comfortable with your rumors than other people's Press Releases.



Knowledge Replaces Fear
User currently offlineJimboski93 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 20 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 30914 times:



Quoting IAD787 (Reply 4):
Next week. I'm hearing murmurs of Tuesday.

Hearing the same thing.

Update call will definitely be ahead of BA earnings call on the 23rd - separate the bad and the good!


User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 30031 times:



Quoting Jimboski93 (Reply 7):
separate the bad and the good!

Hey maybe they'll both be good. Maybe Boeing will have LN001-006 ready to fly, they have just purposely kept the public in the dark  wink 



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineNycbjr From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 29805 times:



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 8):
Hey maybe they'll both be good. Maybe Boeing will have LN001-006 ready to fly, they have just purposely kept the public in the dark wink

Hah! thats about as likely as I am to win the lottery tomorrow! lol

however true I would love it to be...  Smile


User currently offlineStarrion From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1126 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 29795 times:



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 8):
Hey maybe they'll both be good. Maybe Boeing will have LN001-006 ready to fly, they have just purposely kept the public in the dark

Ben Bernanke called. He'd like you to do a lecture series on Wall Street.


Expected: New delay that everybody has already heard, EIS moved back to 4th Quarter 2009?



Knowledge Replaces Fear
User currently offlineFlysherwood From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 29563 times:

This is like a bomb waiting to go off under the chair of Mr. Carson. His days SHOULD be numbered if in fact there is another delay.  Yeah sure

User currently offlineJimboski93 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 20 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 29325 times:



Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 11):
This is like a bomb waiting to go off under the chair of Mr. Carson. His days SHOULD be numbered if in fact there is another delay.

BA stock down 30% from its highs, 787 customers probably talking penalty payments, 787 suppliers wanting payment too...

And don't forget the KC-X debacle...

Carson needs Shanahan to find him some good news (maybe that everything behind LN001 is looking good?)!


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31119 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 29155 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Three straight years of record sales and record deliveries...

Cash flow up billions.

Yeah, Carson sure has run Boeing Commercial into the ground...


User currently offlineKochamLOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 28999 times:

This is really disapointing. Shiznit happens but come on...
No forecast seems realistic anymore


User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2182 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 28809 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
Three straight years of record sales and record deliveries...

Cash flow up billions.

Yeah, Carson sure has run Boeing Commercial into the ground...

Well, not now but his days might be numbered when Boeing will have to pay compensations...
The ball is back in Airbus' camp, oil the A330 chain!!!!



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlineRheinbote From Germany, joined May 2006, 1968 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 28787 times:



Quoting Starrion (Reply 10):
Expected: New delay that everybody has already heard, EIS moved back to 4th Quarter 2009?

Expected: First flight 1-5 weeks before Santa Claus...


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31119 posts, RR: 85
Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 28345 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 15):
Well, not now but his days might be numbered when Boeing will have to pay compensations...

Carson's future will depend on the 787. However, even if the 787 is two years late into service, if that EIS is relatively trouble-free, that the 787 will likely be the second or third-best selling widebody family (including the A330/A340 duo) by then will likely lead to a more positive future for him...


User currently offlineFAEDC3 From Ecuador, joined Jun 2007, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 28211 times:



Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 11):
His days SHOULD be numbered if in fact there is another delay.

and the number should two digit

Quoting KochamLOT (Reply 14):
Three straight years of record sales and record deliveries...

Cash flow up billions.

Yeah, Carson sure has run Boeing Commercial into the ground...

I have to agree Stich, but you know how unfair and especially unforgiving is the corporate world... There's always more people willing to be "bonus takers" than "guilt takers".... Somebody has to pay the price of it.


User currently offlineScipio From Belgium, joined Oct 2007, 898 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 27919 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
Three straight years of record sales and record deliveries...

Record deliveries?

Deliveries have been well below the levels reached in the late 1990s.


User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 27784 times:



Quoting Starrion (Reply 10):
Ben Bernanke called. He'd like you to do a lecture series on Wall Street.


I hope you sensed my sarcasm...  Silly

Unless things really turn around for Boeing, I wonder how long Scott Carson will be there...Let's just wait and see. Though a delay is more than likely, we haven't had a confirmation yet.



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31119 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 27714 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

never mind. looking in the wrong zone.

[Edited 2008-04-03 16:42:57]

User currently offlineScipio From Belgium, joined Oct 2007, 898 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 27542 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 21):
The highest delivery count in the 1990's was 708 in 1996, and that includes McD commercial deliveries. That is half of last year's delivery total and only about 70% of 2005's.

 Confused  Confused  Confused  Confused


Deliveries:

2007: 441
2006: 398
2005: 290

2001: 572
2000: 492
1999: 620
1998: 564


User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 26680 times:



Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 11):
This is like a bomb waiting to go off under the chair of Mr. Carson. His days SHOULD be numbered if in fact there is another delay.

Why would you chop the CEO of a company that's doing fantastically well? Carson's job is not to run the 787 program, it's to run Boeing Commercial Airplanes. BCA is a very healthy company. Even with the 787 mess, it's a very healthy company.

If you want to see him go to satisfy some kind of PR point, OK, but let's not pretend that's actually a good business idea.

Tom.


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31119 posts, RR: 85
Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 26543 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 23):
Carson's job is not to run the 787 program, it's to run Boeing Commercial Airplanes. BCA is a very healthy company. Even with the 787 mess, it's a very healthy company.

Not to mention Carson, as head of Sales, was one of the reasons the plane has 900 orders.


25 Pnwtraveler : Boeings reason for being is bring shareholder value by delivering planes effectively and profitably. It the 787 program continues on with the success
26 Glideslope : Nice to see someone else with the same views. He should have been shot out on his ass with Bair.
27 Tdscanuck : And how, exactly, would this have helped BCA or the 787 do any better? Tom.
28 WingedMigrator : Probably not much. But I think guys at the top are just as replaceable as guys on the shop floor... they're not as numerous, they take longer to groo
29 Swallow : Any updates on Dreamlifter flights? It seems awfully quiet on that front. Last I read they were mainly doing training flights and had possibly brought
30 Ikramerica : One left Japan yesterday according to an a.netter.
31 A380900 : How about 7/8/7 roll out? Why would you forgive that?
32 Glideslope : Easy, direct accountability for a "Gross" lack of performance in the area supervision of supplier oversight by Mike Bair. Who IMO is the most respons
33 Post contains links Robffm2 : There is a nice read on businessweek: Will Boing Pay for Delays?
34 Stitch : Well it certainly could have helped it do worse since he was behind some 500 of the sales... Because in the grand scheme of things, it's a non-issue?
35 Post contains links Stitch : Royal Air Maroc says they expect a one year delay (from October 2008 to October 2009) for their first plane, but then that plane is LN005 (the GEnx te
36 RedChili : Based on the information from Flightblogger, I'd say that they more likely lost half a year than one or two months. They spent two or three months pu
37 Moo : Has there been any firm indication of what the actual problem is that the 787 program is suffering from? The reason I ask is the A380 went through a *
38 Stitch : There has been a good deal of speculation, but nothing firm, as of yet. It may not be a serious design issue, but it is most likely a pervasive one s
39 Baroque : I had heard that the delay was trying to co-ordinate the announcement with Mugabe explaining the Zimbabwe election results so each press release woul
40 Revelation : C'mon, Tom, don't you know watching executives walk the plank is great entertainment? It's one of the things that brightens up the droll existence of
41 ArniePie : I've heard from someone (who works for one of their suppliers) that they seem to also have a problem with the (500KVA) Generator system (some parts la
42 Stitch : Well LN001's costs are going to be astronomical, to be sure. The first units will always be the most expensive, even if production went exactly to pl
43 Moo : Unfortunately, as we both know, investors largely tend to not think that far.
44 Stitch : Some do, especially the large institutional investors who are specifically looking at the "long term". There is no question that Boeing's recent drop
45 Sxf24 : Since Boeing allocates costs over the life of the program, institutional investors of any value certainly take this perspective.
46 AirNZ : Sorry, and I'm not trying to play the devil here, but we need to get away from this constantly repeated comment about how successful the 787 is. Yes,
47 CaptainX : Boeing has a bad habit of throwing immature technology into products, mainly for the market appeal, only to suffer the traditional consequences later.
48 Flysherwood : It is the single most important project that Boeing has ever undertaken. It has been mismanaged. They have already moved the first project manager el
49 Revelation : Come now. For that to be true, either none of its technology would be in existence, or every attempt to use any of its technology would have failed.
50 Beaucaire : Stitch - I'm willing to bet a good meal of Moroccan Couscous and a couple of bottles of best Moroccan Guerrouane wine with you that they will not see
51 Stitch : You are correct, AirNZ, to note that just because the 787 has 900 orders to date is not a guarantee the program will be successful. While highly unlik
52 Scipio : Which 787 technologies do you see as immature? Same question, since "most" is not "all". Which technologies are the greatest risk factors? We already
53 Revelation : I think you'd have to be working for Boeing to get a true read on this, but to say that the only successful thing about the 787 is the number of orde
54 Baroque : Well yes, the first one is off scale, and B will just have to swallow that. It was whether whatever it is causing the delay (which is presumably plur
55 Flysherwood : How many CEO's has Airbus had since the last announced delay of the A380 EIS?
56 Flysherwood : Being a good salesman does not make you a good manager. Maybe they should put him back to selling the airframes. Look I am not saying that he caused
57 Ikramerica : That would put the program at 9-10 months behind, which is where it was 3 months ago. But without power on, it seems iffy. Then why would they say ot
58 AirNZ : I absolutely, and unequivocally, agree with you - it would never enter my mind to believe that the programme will not be successful nor even remotely
59 Flysherwood : I have to disagree with you there Stitch. The institutional investors are the worst ones to look at the long term payoff of an investment. Why do you
60 Post contains links Beaucaire : Ikramerica - http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2008/04/04/afx4854409.html that's the article in question - I have no clue why the RAM boss is pu
61 Flysherwood : I am a big Boeing fan and I couldn't agree with you more. The graveyard is littered with companies who introduced a product that was a runaway succes
62 AirNZ : Firstly, you are misinterpreting my comment. I am not questioning at all that a lot of the technology has not been successful in, and of, itself. I'm
63 OldAeroGuy : The problems were announced on Carson's watch. However, the genesis of the problems began on Mulally's watch. Remember that Mulally left in Sept. 200
64 Ikramerica : Because they will tell customers FIRST, before the "announcement." That's how I read it. RAM boss has gotten an update and told the press about it. O
65 SEPilot : It did on one important instance. This is exactly the final blow that did in Douglas and forced them to merge with McDonnell. They totally underestim
66 AirNZ : Again, I never implied that the ONLY successful thing about the 787 was the number of orders......I clearly stated that the number of orders is not t
67 Jimboski93 : Perhaps. If RAM was supposed to receive delivery appox. 5 months after original EIS of May '08, then an "end of 2009" delivery might imply EIS 5 mont
68 Rheinbote : To me that's proof that RAM has not been briefed yet on the latest developments. (1) Sluggish ramp-up of parts production and (2) inadequate supplier
69 Flysherwood : If you think that Mr. Carson will be able to get away with blaming Mr. Mulally for the current state of the program, you are dreaming. He has been at
70 Rheinbote : further re "Integration Troubles", Aviation Week, April 7, page 26 (http://www.aviationnow.com - subscribers only) Boeing says its global supply chain
71 Ikramerica : Very true. Boeing bet the farm on the 747. They bet the farm again on the 777. But with the 787, despite huge projections for sales, they hedged thei
72 Zeke : When I last saw it not so long back it appeared they have had to redo all the fasteners between between sections 43 & 44, as well as all the fasteners
73 RedChili : Date?
74 Ikramerica : I think that is because they installed an entirely new wingbox due to redesign. But I could be wrong...
75 Stitch : I was under the impression it was just some Al reinforcements that would be used for the test birds (with the customer planes incorporating the updat
76 Ikramerica : Sounds plausible. Would you have to "unjoin" the back and front from the center to install them? That's sort of what I was getting at, that they had
77 Pianos101 : Yup that's what i've heard... and to add to that, i've also heard that the SRM (structural repair manual) calls for Al to be used to patch up the com
78 Tdscanuck : I'm not forgiving it, but it has very little to do with Carson's job. Carson doesn't pick a detail like a program rollout date...that would be Bair.
79 ScrubbsYWG : i just decided to take a look at the Boeing Winnipeg job website and there are 7 engineering positions available(1 in design engineering to do with th
80 Astuteman : Wow! I didn't expect to be reading a statement like this about composite structure repairs on the 787, on A-net. I was given to understand that the r
81 Pylon101 : We all are interested in Boeing's eventual success. As far as Boeing consciously left VLA sector (I still think "long thin routes" concept was a mista
82 A380900 : It was a lie to the public/investors. The message was "we're on track" and nothing was further from the truth. But let's not stop at the "lie" issue.
83 Justloveplanes : I disagree with that. Mullaly left because he was passed over for CEO and Ford gave him the crown jewels. The statement also implies that 10 months w
84 Justloveplanes : I disagree with that. Mullaly left because he was passed over for CEO and Ford gave him the crown jewels. The statement also implies that 10 months w
85 A380900 : Sounds reasonable. I'm willing to bet as well. What other thing is successful about the 787? Apart from the dreamlifter successfully flying, I truly
86 Justloveplanes : Point to point is a documented 25 year trend, not PR. Average International aircraft size is continually shrinking and if point to point travel was n
87 Sabenapilot : 2 interesting issues which have passed largely undiscussed so far: Indeed! Repairability does seem to a serious issue after all, despite all the comfo
88 Kire : Concerning all that discussion about Boeing's executives and managers: The distance between brightness and stupidity is quite narrow (not only for the
89 Zeke : Hub to Hub is point to point, they are just bigger points. "Southwest, Ryanair and Easyjet" are essentially delivering a domestic style product, in t
90 CaptainX : Same company, same system engineering process, same upper management, same culture. You are just in denial. It is far closer to today's FCS than to t
91 Art : Congratulations on your knowledge of English. Your ability to express yourself correctly in English surpasses that of many of the "mother tongue" Eng
92 Rheinbote : Name one serious issue with repairability of the 777 vertical tail or the 340 horizontal stabilizer. Al patches is a standard repair for composites,
93 Pianos101 : Obviously... I wasn't intending to say they're fixing the wingbox by using the SRM that isn't even finished. My point was that composite structure is
94 Post contains links and images Zeke : Lots of composite parts have already been on aircraft for over 20 years....
95 OldAeroGuy : I think you're putting too much emphasis on the importance of the roll-out ceremony. The roll-out ceremony had little to do with the center wing box
96 Pianos101 : No i know, but definitely not to this magnitude... A rib here, a fin there, but an entire fuselage and wing and primary structure... it's still a "ne
97 Justloveplanes : The roll out ceremony in itself was nothing. What is illuminating about the roll out ceremony is the DECISION to go ahead with it. This is meaningful
98 OldAeroGuy : I'm not implying that the airplane will not perform in the end. The only reason I entered the discussion was to point out to those that were calling
99 A380900 : Of course. The standard bearer of high capacity aircraft (747) got so old that it was not competitive with 777s and A340s. No wonder the average size
100 Sxf24 : Perhaps for commercial aircraft, but not for aircraft in general.
101 Tdscanuck : They would have been shut down because, at the time, they didn't know how bad the travelled work would be and delaying the delivery to Everett would
102 NCB : I didn't know that the B787 was a fighter jet...[Edited 2008-04-05 19:04:42]
103 AirNZ : Precisely!! Is this not what many of us have been saying (and snidely getting blasted for it) to those who keep insisting, as in being in denial, tha
104 Sphealey : And again I would recommend Joe Sutter's book on the 747 development process here; he disagrees with you a bit. sPh
105 Moo : Are any of those pressure vessels? No? Oh well.
106 Sphealey : Beech Starship. sPh
107 IAD787 : I'm so glad someone finally mentioned his book. I'm reading it right now actually and it gives an amazing historical perspective on what's going on t
108 Sxf24 : Is there a reason that military technology can't be used in commercial aircraft?
109 JPRM1 : I think that it is possible to use, but Boeing did claim that they do not use the military financed research for civil airplanes in the WTO. It is ma
110 NCB : Yes, Short airframe time in high G conditions vs. high airframe time in low G conditions and high number of pressure cycles and operational economy.
111 Astuteman : It requires a different set of design criteria, without doubt. Whether it requires a different manufacturing process is highly debateable. Regards
112 Tdscanuck : Fortunately, neither does the structure in the aircraft. As noted by Astuteman, the design criteria are different so the parts are different, but the
113 Justloveplanes : I believe your analysis is not correct my good sir. Average aircraft size continued to shrink even when the most modern aircraft was the largest, i.e
114 OldAeroGuy : Then why did Airbus and Boeing sell a combined total of over 450 A346's and 773ER's for the past 8 years while less than 200 A380's have been sold? I
115 Stitch : NASA information is open to the public and Boeing noted that they had to "re-learn" some of the composite experience they gained from military progra
116 CuriousFlyer : I could see that in 10 years, with oil at over $200, US transcons will be flown by a few VLAs, with maybe 4 or 5 airlines offering maybe 10 to 20 flig
117 Scipio : I think his analysis is correct, if incomplete. There have been several trends going on. The decline in average size has been driven partly by the ag
118 Planemaker : The first civil jet with a composite "pressure vessel" first flew 11 years ago.
119 OldAeroGuy : Two good reasons. But with regard to delivery availability, there are 244 A346's & 773ER's to be delivered (26 and 228 respectively) versus 189 A380'
120 Zeke : You are comparing different market segments. In the mid size aircraft size, the CV880/L10-11/DC8/A310/A300/707/757/767/MD11 have been replaced with t
121 Astuteman : Composite DSV's have been around for a pretty long time.... Regards
122 Aircellist : That is, I believe, the crux of the question. Aren't we in a world where everybody has to feel that one's personal desires are to be satisfied? If th
123 Justloveplanes : The 744's you referred to were being replaced with smaller craft instead of new 744's even though 744 have greater/equal CASM than 767's and A330's.
124 AirNZ : But this is only true if you can fill the 744 on each flight. It is not valid if the 744 is just too much aircraft for a particular routing, with whi
125 RedChili : I get the impression that you don't understand some simple mathematical principles. Even if only one A380 was sold, that one A380 would still help wi
126 Tdscanuck : Good point, although DSV's are compression shells, so the fatigue issues aren't exactly the same. But the long-term durability is certainly a known f
127 Justloveplanes : Exactly true! This is why smaller point to point type aircraft have an inherent risk advantage over VLA's. Easier to fill, easier to keep profitable/
128 Ikramerica : Easier to reassign based on seasonality.
129 NCB : I'm talking about the manufacturing process in a general term, meaning "from initial design to commercial production" and not the manufacturing proce
130 Astuteman : Sorry to be pedantic, but if you're talking about the development lifecycle as a "process", there is absolutely no difference whatsoever between a CF
131 Rheinwaldner : Some things we don't want to hear pop up (repairability issues, electrics). In the "progress-thread" (where we discussed what progress is) I raised my
132 SEPilot : Then why are the A320 and 737 selling in such incredible numbers? You seem to be focusing on international travel; there are far more planes involved
133 Astuteman : For me, this is exactly what is driving the "the average size of planes is falling" phenomenon. To me, when people talk about fragmentation, my mind
134 CHRISBA777ER : But if they order the A388 I bet they send it to FRA eventually.
135 Art : I wonder when Boeing is going to update us on when the 787 update will be. Or have I missed something?
136 Brendows : Seems as if it's going to happen tomorrow.
137 SEPilot : There certainly does seem to be a tendency in this direction. However, it is by no means universal. Certainly the number of 747's being replaced by 7
138 A380900 : Will we know beforehand or are they just publishing some status report? Very strange if it's tomorrow that we don't hear about it today. No?
139 Aircellist : RedChili's remark is valid. Hey, today's regional jets carry as much people as the "big" '50s propliners. The 737-900 can carry more people than the
140 Moo : I think the 'tomorrow' rumour is just that, a rumour - a few people have been expecting something tomorrow but theres been no indication (that I am a
141 Justloveplanes : One of the reasons I understand ANA choose the 787 instead of the A388 was frequency. 2 787's instead of 1 A388. I guess it depends on your slots. If
142 A380900 : Did ANA actually say that they put the 787 in competition with the A380? It sounds like what a bunch of kids would do. Not an airline.
143 Ikramerica : The update on the update update is still pending. Flightglobal seems to have some info though.
144 Astuteman : But they're selling better than their SMALLER rival..... Now that's what I call writing... Rgds
145 SEPilot : That I have to grant you.
146 Ikramerica : Hey, he asked...
147 Jimboski93 : Wednesday, April 9, at 11:00 a.m. EST buckle up!
148 Post contains links EC777 : According to James Wallaces sources (Seattlepi), Boeing will announce an additional 6 month delay or longer. http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/aerosp
149 HawkerCamm : The most important thing is what happens to the flight test schedule and the EIS If first flight is delayed 6 months then EIS could be delayed 9-12 mo
150 SEPilot : When you really come down to it the plane will be ready when it is ready. Saying that "this must be the last delay" may work for some products, but w
151 OldAeroGuy : I can do the math. Rather than deal with anecdotal references, let's look at some real data. First of all let's define the market. Until the 744 appe
152 HawkerCamm : Don't forget the expense on the Airline side for preparing the infrastructure, ground crew, flight crew, cabin crew, despatch, maintenance engineers,
153 Ikramerica : Maybe, maybe not. Sources also said the 777F would be additionally delayed. Boeing said it isn't. Sources said the 748F would be delayed due to the 7
154 Post contains links EC777 : HawkerCamm is not alone to think that this delay must be the last one, unless he is the leasing executive making the remarks at the end of this articl
155 Flysherwood : Really?!?! How many A380's have been sold over the last two years?
156 Flysherwood : Tick tock Mr. Carson. Tick tock!!! I wonder how many people the bomb under his chair will take with it when it goes off?
157 Zeke : I agree with what you are saying, we should wait until the manufacturer announces a delay before cementing it in. The best way for Boeing to counter
158 Moo : 60 (2006 to date).
159 Flysherwood : Under 200 sales over 8 years with a $20 billion investment is not exactly what you would call "game changing" now would you?
160 XaraB : If you want to use design range over the past 25 years as a criteria for seat count increase/decrease, the least you should do is remove all current
161 SEPilot : But what is their alternative? Buy A330's? Never mind that the A330 will not do what the 787 will, and probably will take as long to obtain as the fu
162 Scipio : It is much better than the predictions some Airbus critics used to make, and a solid start for such a game-changing aircraft. Everyone knew that the
163 Zeke : Current MD-11 passenger operators, as you correctly said Finnair (7 pax) and KLM ( 10 pax), also TAM (3 pax), Sonair/World Airways (8 pax).
164 Flysherwood : Start? It has been available now for 8 years. Oh, so now it is going to take time to develop? 450+ units to break even; good luck.
165 Flysherwood : I couldn't agree with you more SEPilot. Like I said, tick tock Mr. Carson.
166 BestWestern : And this has what to do about the 787? Nice diversion though.
167 AutoThrust : I think its possible to achieve. International airports are counting roughly every year 5% more passenger traffic, plus oil costs rising will force s
168 Flysherwood : Just answering a post. I was not the one who brought the A380 into the discussion.
169 CaptainX : It was nice of them to give their employees a full day (Tues) to sell their 401K BA stock prior to dropping the next shoe.
170 Flysherwood : Mr. Carson was ready to take full credit and the glory if in fact the 787 was first flown on time and its EIS was on time. Unfortunately, neither one
171 AirNZ : Yes, I understand what you're saying but......Boeing also told us 9 months ago that everything was on track concerning the 787, and the same thing ag
172 SEPilot : In order to sell the number of 787's that they have sold they would have had to make some pretty specific performance specifications to the airlines.
173 A380900 : The A380 is meeting its specs and better. Airbus has imposed a new standard. It will be the lowest CASM for years to come. It will be a huge success.
174 Flysherwood : Boeing's engineering prowess and abilities have never been in question. Decisions by its upper management are a different story, however.
175 Ikramerica : Exactly. Sources are right sometimes, sources are wrong sometimes. My personal GUESS, not based on sources, is that a delay will be announced, but th
176 RedChili : 767: I don't have any hard data in front of me, and I'm too lazy to dig it up, but my belief is that the number of 767s flying long-haul routes has d
177 A380900 : This is a really "Boeing friendly" way of looking at things. "You get lied to sometimes, you are being told the truth sometimes" would be a better wa
178 Justloveplanes : Let me reemphasize the smaller aircraft shift by citing the 788 sales numbers. This plane will sell in bigger numbers than the 767. It is about the s
179 Tdscanuck : Why would EIS slide more than first flight? Or are you assuming a concurrent lengthening of the flight test program? It's physically impossible to ge
180 AirNZ : Absolutely, and I'm not disagreeing with you in the slightest overall. However, what I was commenting on was the constant harping on about various as
181 Pianos101 : AND..... that's why I get most of my 87 info from here... If i knew what was REALLY going on with the program we all would've dumped BA from our 401k
182 Post contains links OldAeroGuy : Mea Culpa on the continuing use of the MD-11 in pax service. With so few pax airplanes operating given its rapid conversion form pax to freight, it i
183 Flysherwood : I will make you a bet that the A350 will be much more profitable for Airbus than the A380. Why, you ask? Because I highly doubt that Airbus will ever
184 SEPilot : I think you are right.
185 Moo : They don't need to recoup $20billion (where did you come by that figure by the way, because its unrealistic) because a *substantial* portion is sunk
186 Flysherwood : The original budget for development was estimated at around $ 14 billion. Where did you come by your figure? And that was before the delays.
187 Flysherwood : Most profit minded corporations do consider sunk costs when trying to determine a return on investment. If you don't think a 50% increase is substant
188 Flysherwood : Your thoughts and ideas on how exactly this will be achieved would be greatly appreciated by Mr. Bernanke and the rest of the Federal Reserve Board.
189 Osiris30 : Moo, respectfully, what is the cost to carry that much debt for this long? Capital is never (or very rarely) free. Even at a paltry 1% per year that
190 Revelation : Don't let the nomenclature fool you: the 787-8 is bigger than the 767-400 in terms of cabin floor area. The 787-8 is a big airplane, which makes some
191 Post contains links OA260 : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7338807.stm Boeing has announced another major delay to delivery of its new 787 Dreamliner aircraft. The plane is
192 Burkhard : Let us wait for more news. This does not convice me. Still these numbers show three quarters only between first flight and delivery, something hard to
193 Post contains links Moo : Numerous sources, heres some of the public ones - http://www.aviationpast.com/A380.html http://www.pacminfinder.com/airbusa380.html http://sbswebpage
194 Osiris30 : I've heard everything from $12B to $20B for the program when delays are included, etc. I don't know what the real number is, my point was 1% a year o
195 SirOmega : So first flight Q4 2008, EIS Q3 2009, 25 planes in 2009, and slower production ramping. No real surprises here. The 789 in 2012 and the 783 sometime i
196 Moo : The problem is also that we are talking about a debt that is largely held in Euros, but we are referring to it in Dollars - that right there is going
197 Astuteman : The original budget was $10.5Bn. Rgds
198 Post contains links OA260 : Airlines Line Up for Boeing Compensation Airlines started lining up on Thursday for compensation after Boeing further delayed its new 787 Dreamliner p
199 Baroque : " target=_blank>http://www.cnbc.com/id/24039735 Makes you wonder if QF (well Jetstar's) leased A330s will be closer to free than the A330s SQ leased
200 Kukkudrill : Depends on penalty provisions in the contract surely.
201 Zeke : Nice in theory, in reality I think the compensation level will be capped, I think Boeing has gone past the point with many frames where the cap has b
202 Post contains links LockstockNL777 : Launch customer ANA upset over latest 787 delays By Nicholas Ionides Boeing 787 launch customer All Nippon Airways (ANA) is expressing clear frustrati
203 LockstockNL777 : I am in Sales myself and the first basic thing you learn is to keep your clients informed and ALWAYS be honest.. Even if that means you have to bite
204 Maersk737 : In this case it's a little different.... ANA can't just cross the street, and buy the goods in another store Cheers Peter
205 LockstockNL777 : Very true, but still, having your clients voice their frustrations publicly is quite the embarresment.. Boeing should have tried to aviod this by inf
206 Nomadd22 : I just noticed on Flightbloggers site that one of the decisions revealed in the update was to take the wing to destruction on the fatigue test frame.
207 Stitch : This assumes NH is not just posturing for the Japanese media and stockholders and Boeing has been keeping them abreast of the situation within reason
208 Flysherwood : Tick tock, the clock is ticking Mr. Carson.
209 LockstockNL777 : Ok didnt think of that posibility. But why would they keep about appearances about that? I can not see the PR value of saying you were not properly i
210 Stitch : That is where the "within reason" part is. It seems to me that Boeing still doesn't have a complete handle on the situation with LN001, yet they are
211 Aerofan : this is looking more and more like the whale jet fiasco. what... didn't they learn anything?
212 Stitch : People keep asking this question, but that is because nobody seems to read the answer which is the issues the two programs encountered are similar on
213 Abba : And in that while the A380 were only about wiring for the entertainment systems etc. (first flight were not that late), the 787 delay seems to be abo
214 FlyingAY : Naturally the question that's also on Japanese carriers' lips is the delivery date of the 787-3, which according to the article posted by Lockstock,
215 SEPilot : Simple; there are far more customers for the -9 so making the -3 customers wait longer costs less than further delaying the -9.
216 Stitch : I have to admit listening to the conference, I interpreted the comments to say that the 787-3 would precede the 787-9, but... One possible reason cou
217 Zeke : From listening to it, I got the impression the 789 was next (2012), and the aim was to reduce weight on that and flow that onto the 788/783.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Boeing 787 Update From Earnings Conference Call posted Wed Jan 31 2007 16:40:51 by NYC777
Boeing 787 Update - Where Are The Pics? posted Tue Aug 2 2005 11:32:41 by Emirates2005
787 Update From Boeing's 3rd Quarter Earnings Call posted Wed Oct 24 2007 08:01:28 by NYC777
Boeing Execs To Provide 787 Update, Part 2 posted Tue Sep 4 2007 22:20:56 by IAD787
Boeing Execs To Provide 787 Update posted Wed Aug 29 2007 18:41:49 by Zvezda
Boeing's Carson & Bair 787 Update @ 10am ET Monday posted Mon Mar 19 2007 11:38:39 by Sangas
Boeing's Saddler Gives 787 Update posted Fri Sep 8 2006 16:46:22 by NYC777
Boeing 747-8 Update? posted Fri Apr 4 2008 17:48:15 by AeroplaneFreak
FlightBlogger Gives Full 787 Update posted Wed Mar 19 2008 14:39:16 by Radiocheck
How To Hack Into A Boeing 787 posted Tue Feb 19 2008 12:41:01 by WepaMan