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Loads AF / LAX-LHR  
User currently offlineBP1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 593 posts, RR: 1
Posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3892 times:

Ok, it has only been a few days now, but has anyone been on the AF LAX-LHR flight yet and what was the load like in all cabins, not just the Y class. Let the experiment begin.

Cheers,
BP1


"First To Fly The A-380" / 26 October 2007 SYD-SIN Inaugural
15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7411 posts, RR: 57
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3803 times:

I can give you the average load factors for this first week of operations :

Y Tempo Class = 100%
J Espace Affaires = 50%
P Espace Premère = 25%

The cabin config. of AF's B772ER is 4P / 49J / 211Y


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3782 times:

It just started, and will need some ramp up time. But I dont expect t his to be a success...they are probably giving away the Y cabin right now. I wouldnt expect the ywill do well in J and F in taking traffic from BA and VS.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25191 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3328 times:

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 2):
I wouldnt expect they will do well in J and F in taking traffic from BA and VS.

I disagree. With all the negative news about BA's T5 fiasco at LHR, I think AF stands a good chance of picking up some BA high yield traffic. Many passengers are fed up with BA's ongoing problems and are looking for a good alternative. With both DL and AF selling this flight, they will also pick up quite a few SkyTeam members who have up to now been flying LAX-LHR via AMS/CDG or other SkyTeam hubs and will prefer a nonstop flight.

Longhaul premium class fares to/from LHR also tend to be higher than equivalent fares to/from CDG because LHR is such a strong O&D market so they won't need as many passengers in those cabins to generate equivalent yields as on flights to/from CDG. LAX-LHR-LAX is roughly the same size O&D market as JFK-CDG-JFK, so why not try to get at least a share of that market if you have the capacity available?

[Edited 2008-04-03 16:39:13]

User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3262 times:

From and advertising standpoint, who is going to think, "Aha! Air France to London!" they are probably thinking more along the lines of "Air France to London?!" Not that I don't doubt the service will be excellent and they might make some bucks at it, but if you see it from my point, most people aren't going to think to look at www.airfrance.com for their ticket to LHR. Just my opinion though. If Air France is to succeed, then they need to do some MAJOR MAJOR PR campaigns in LAX and shit-tonnes of advertising to get this thing off the ground year round. I assume though, that they have already started to campaign this flight in the LA and London areas.

UAL


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25191 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3141 times:



Quoting UAL747 (Reply 4):
If Air France is to succeed, then they need to do some MAJOR MAJOR PR campaigns in LAX and shit-tonnes of advertising to get this thing off the ground year round.

These days most passengers don't make decisions about which carrier to use in response to advertising but based on who has the lowest fare or the schedule that suits them best in all the booking websites, not just the airline's own site but also Orbitz, Travelocity, Expedia and others than show all carriers. And with DL codesharing these flights appear as DL flights, not just AF flights. Many business class passengers don't make their own carrier decisions anyway as their companies have negotiated corporate discounts with certain carriers so those decisions aren't affected by advertising or PR.


User currently offline8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2828 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):
I disagree. With all the negative news about BA's T5 fiasco at LHR, I think AF stands a good chance of picking up some BA high yield traffic.

I disagree. You've got to think of the bigger picture....BA and T5 are going to be around for years and years to come. Although the whole fiasco is all over the press at the moment, once all the operations get back to normal (which they say is sometime this weekend), it will all be forgotten about in the near future. It will probably still be on peoples minds when booking a flight with BA in the future, but it wont stop them flying with them forever. Believe it or not, they are a world class airline and people won't just start flying with AF on the LHR-LAX route because of everything going on at the moment.

[Edited 2008-04-04 03:55:31]

[Edited 2008-04-04 03:56:05]

[Edited 2008-04-04 03:56:48]

[Edited 2008-04-04 03:58:26]

User currently offlineFCAFLYBOY From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2006, 593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2775 times:

Also, in terms of product differentiation, while AF's offering is indeed excellent, BA's Club/FIRST product, is, in my humble opinion, far superior. With all those high-spending BA exec-card holders out there, they would be silly NOT to fly with BA for all the freebies and perks. Let's face it, upfront is where the money's made!

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 1):
P Espace Premère = 25%

The cabin config. of AF's B772ER is 4P / 49J / 211Y

So am I righ in saying that is 1 P class seat sold?

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):
And with DL codesharing these flights appear as DL flights, not just AF flights

I'm not sure this is actually a good thing, DL don't have a that great a rep in the UK, not like BA/VS at least.


User currently offlineMennix From Germany, joined Dec 2006, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2720 times:



Quoting 8herveg (Reply 6):
I disagree. You've got to think of the bigger picture....BA and T5 are going to be around for years and years to come. Although the whole fiasco is all over the press at the moment, once all the operations get back to normal (which they say is sometime this weekend), it will all be forgotten about in the near future.

I don't think you're right.

Even before the T 5 desaster LHR is for the most European frequent flyers an airport you avoid wherever possible. And this bad reputation is something which is VERY closed to BA.

From a German newspaper this week:

"LHR has been a long time known for the most unfriendly and most incompetent staff in Europe. It really changed. Even nobody could imagine before, it become WORSE"

BA and LHR will take a very, very long time to get rid of this ultra negative reputation. Therefore I could easily think of Premium Pax who must go to LHR to try another carrier with a quite good reputation.


User currently offlineUA935 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 610 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2653 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 2):
they are probably giving away the Y cabin right now

From what I have seen so far the economy fares are the same if not slightly higher than all the others on the route. Fares for May are £414 return, same as BA, UA, AA etc



Live every second like you mean it
User currently offlineC8j2h From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 21 hours ago) and read 2277 times:



Quoting UA935 (Reply 9):

From what I have seen so far the economy fares are the same if not slightly higher than all the others on the route. Fares for May are £414 return, same as BA, UA, AA etc

There were actually some really remarkable low fares (possibly below cost) that were available

393 all-in for April
http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=800384

$431 all-in from start of Service- May 24, $335 all-in DURING OCT-DEC!!
http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=791060

I'm thinking that these crazy deals alone may have contributed to the 100% load factor in Y over the first week (as opposed to the premium cabins). I myself have booked the $335 ticket over thanksgiving break, we'll see if this route is still around by then.

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 4):
I assume though, that they have already started to campaign this flight in the LA and London areas.

Just in what I've seen over the last two weeks, there is a large billboard near LAX advertising the new route along with sponsorship LAX's public radio station KPCC (Announced at least twice a day).

[Edited 2008-04-04 10:27:40]

User currently offlineOkapi From France, joined Jun 2006, 215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 21 hours ago) and read 2234 times:



Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Reply 7):
Let's face it, upfront is where the money's made!

True but what about cargo. Will AF try fill the T7's belly as well ? Any hint on cargo loads on pax planes out of LHR to the US ?


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17449 posts, RR: 46
Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 21 hours ago) and read 2234 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):
With all the negative news about BA's T5 fiasco at LHR, I think AF stands a good chance of picking up some BA high yield traffic.

That's not going to win them any passengers in the long term.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):
These days most passengers don't make decisions about which carrier to use in response to advertising but based on who has the lowest fare or the schedule that suits them best in all the booking websites

Only in the back of the bus. The passengers that matter, in F or J, are likely wedded either by corporate contract or frequent flyer program to One World or Virgin.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineC8j2h From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1825 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 12):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):
With all the negative news about BA's T5 fiasco at LHR, I think AF stands a good chance of picking up some BA high yield traffic.

That's not going to win them any passengers in the long term.

Even if some passengers do bail from BA to other airlines, AF would still have to split with VS, AA, UA, NZ on the LHR-LAX nonstop market.


User currently offlineBrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4218 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1814 times:



Quoting 8herveg (Reply 6):
once all the operations get back to normal

What do they consider normal at T5? Only 10,000 bags lost or 10% of the flights canceled?  cheeky   sarcastic 



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineCuriousFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 693 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1769 times:

If I lived in London, I'd try to fly AF, in any class, because I make miles on Skyteam... With their small offer, I think Af is aiming to that segment of premium passengers (or passenger that would pay more in Y for qualifying miles).

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