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New Zealand Aviation Thread #29  
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12145 posts, RR: 17
Posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10486 times:
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Welcome to Thread #29. In thread #28 http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/3906212/ , we learnt and discussed:

- Discussed the merits and possible routes of E-jets for DJ and NZ
- HLZ wants to spread its wings and get direct Asia and US services
- NZs flight from Oz-CHC-DUD being more expensive then Oz-CHC after a letter to the Editor in the ODT
- Discussed PVG and Beijing
- DJ says Kia-Ora to DUD with CHC-DUD flights
- Discussed European destinations for NZ
- NZ has PVG and Beijing on Grab a Seat in order to sell more seats to kiwis
- NZ announces $20 domestic baggage charge for 2 or more bags, and increases the baggage weight limit to 30kgs each

Let Thread #29 begin

222 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12145 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10459 times:
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From the previous thread:

Quoting DavidBryne
I'm not talking about what's easiest for airline staff, or what costs the airline least. I'm just saying "cut parents a little slack".
In other words your saying that parents with younger kids should be given more rights over other pax!


User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10437 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 1):
In other words your saying that parents with younger kids should be given more rights over other pax!

I'm saying that some passengers have special needs, and this includes parents with small children. An airline has the choice of treating parents travelling with kids just like anyone else and making it hard for them, or acknowledging their special needs and accommodating them - just as you would expect the airline to acknowledge the special needs of wheelchair-bound passengers. The sensible airline that wants to avoid an almighty backlash will be the one that does acknowledge that parents of kids travelling have special needs. And the bottom line is that because so many people have already been parents in the past (after all, where did we all come from?), a huge number of the public already understand exactly what I'm saying. It's also probably these "former" parents who now probably form the majority of the airline's pax, and who won't have forgotten how bloody hard it can be to travel with kids. I'm picking, 777ER, that like Aerorob you've not been a parent . . . am I right?

It's not a matter of rights but of needs. There's nothing discriminatory, and it's not favouritism, for an airline to acknowledge that different groups of passengers have different needs, and to decide to cater to those needs without demanding extra payment.

[Edited 2008-04-04 23:54:24]


This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10421 times:

From the interviews with Bruce Parton on TV news tonight, I would say that AirNZ will listen to feedback. If they have overlooked strollers, they must be getting feedback on that issue on day one of the discussion period.


The other interesting point is the idea of passengers on regional flights taking their bag to the side of the plane to drop it on a trolley. Just like a bus, he said. If your bag is too big at that stage, do you fumble in your pocket for the extra money? Or else, sorry, you are not flying today. 30kg in one bag is a lot. In some industries the OHS limit for a person to lift is 16kg.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12145 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10406 times:
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Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 2):
777ER, that like Aerorob you've not been a parent . . . am I right?

No I'm not a parent, but I'm an uncle of two girls, and I know what travelling with young kids is like. I've also worked with kids, so I know what they are like/hard they are. It doesn't matter if your a parent your not, everyone deserves to be treated the same, parent or not, and having one law for others and another law for others isn't right and isn't fair. It appears that you believe that your posts arn't being biased towards parents, but they are. Parents will choose the airline that is cheaper, and if NZ is cheaper then NZ wins. Parents are already given special rights/privilages. So far they are given priority boarding (usually before the airlines best travellers), and dedicated rows on B767s and long haul.


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4830 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10399 times:



Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 3):
The other interesting point is the idea of passengers on regional flights taking their bag to the side of the plane to drop it on a trolley. Just like a bus, he said. If your bag is too big at that stage, do you fumble in your pocket for the extra money? Or else, sorry, you are not flying today. 30kg in one bag is a lot. In some industries the OHS limit for a person to lift is 16kg.

Actually as at larger airports, I'm sure there will be staff in the terminal checking that bags aren't too big before the pax walks out of the terminal (even as late as checking boarding pass stage).
Yes 30kg is a lot... which is quite generous of the airline... considering pax used to have to pay $5/kg over 23kg pax actually get more value than before... now if a pax decides that they WANT to take more than 20kg (the heavy tag cut-in on bags) then that is up to them or they can pay a small fee and have an extra bag if they so choose.

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 2):
I'm saying that some passengers have special needs, and this includes parents with small children.

Which we all accept and understand...
but as I had posted previously in the last thread... why is it that some parents can be organised, pack their bags appropriately and often manage with more than 1 infant or child yet other parents bring the SUV stroller (with attached accessories), a backpack, trolley bag plus arms full of other items?
Yes parents with kids should be treated with extra care, but at the same time they shouldn't be bringing everything but the kitchen sink (at least as carryon..what they do with checked bags is up to them...they get a generous allowance for that ie the kids get an allowance also, so if they want to bring more then pay a small fee).



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineKnid From New Zealand, joined Aug 2005, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10356 times:

What would the maximum weight for one bag be, I assume that it would be 30kg? Will the baggage handers have to lift it? I wouldn't want to, and I guess ACC will be recalculating the levy as we speak...

User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12145 posts, RR: 17
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 10345 times:
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Quoting Knid (Reply 6):

The current maxium weight is 20kgs, before fees apply, so 30kgs before fees apply would be the new rule.


User currently offlineNzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1522 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 10333 times:



Quoting 777ER (Reply 7):

The current maxium weight is 20kgs, before fees apply, so 30kgs before fees apply would be the new rule.

One good thing about the new rule is that now for a extra $10 or 20 what ever it is you will be able to check in 2 bags each with 30kg .. Now that would be a massive saving than paying excess baggage for 40 kg and 20kg free as it is now .. I know for parents that may be difficult paying for a extra bag if they go over .. But with the baggage limit being increased by 10kg that will help to offset that ..



"Pride of the pacific"
User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10323 times:

Flew the third Air NZ Gold Coast-Auckland flight on Thursday.

Cunningly scheduled too late to connect to the USA or Hong Kong, it sold 7 seats out of 8 in Business Class and 46 out of 144 in Economy.


User currently offlinePilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10280 times:

Qantas allows 32kg in one bag domestically in Australia, everytime i come back from a holiday i always seem to be able to cram in 31/32 kilos of shopping!. So i dont see whats wrong re the OHS stuff, 2 people can lift the suitcase if required.


Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10257 times:



Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 5):
Yes parents with kids should be treated with extra care, but at the same time they shouldn't be bringing everything but the kitchen sink (at least as carryon..what they do with checked bags is up to them

My very strong recollection is that whenever I flew with "everything but the kitchen sink" it was because I really needed it. You might be surprised by how much stuff a small child in nappies requires in paraphernalia.

Hey, we were all kids once, even if we haven't been parents. Ask your own parents for an opinion . . .  Smile



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlineBlackLabel From New Zealand, joined Jan 2008, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10253 times:



Quoting Knid (Reply 6):
What would the maximum weight for one bag be, I assume that it would be 30kg? Will the baggage handers have to lift it? I wouldn't want to, and I guess ACC will be recalculating the levy as we speak...

The max per piece is 32KG, regardless of the baggage allowance of the pax/ticket. NZ will not accept anything over 32KG as the baggage handlers won't load it. No change to ACC or NZ with the new rules (which I don't like).


User currently offlineNZ747 From New Zealand, joined Dec 2004, 967 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10246 times:

I think the New baggage policy is great! Would be interesting to see what other airlines follow suit if any.

Just a random question as I watch my comp clock replay the last hour, If an aircraft was arriving or departing at 0230am on day light savings, like today, how would pax and staff know which 0230 it is arriving/departing on as the hour of 2am is twice? Anyone know?


User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4983 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10242 times:

How does this affect international passengers flying domestic with their 2-bag allowance?

User currently offlineZkojh From China, joined Sep 2004, 1698 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 10173 times:

Air Pacific (Nadi) has been forced to spend $1 million in aircraft charter fees to lease a Boeing 737, a Boeing 767 from QANTAS Airways (Sydney) and a Boeing 777 from Air New Zealand (Auckland) due to aircraft shortages. Two aircraft were scheduled for heavy maintenance (why not schedule at a less busy time?) and a third aircraft suffered a mechanical failure and was flown to Singapore for maintenance.

can NZ really afford to give the 772 away just yet?



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlineMacilree From New Zealand, joined Dec 2006, 243 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 10151 times:

TVNZ had a report last night stating that SkyJet Pacific is being investigated by the Police.


John Macilree
User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 10089 times:

I am wondering why they are doing it on weight rather than dimensions? I am sure that some LCCs will follow Ryan and Jetstar and allow us to carry a 10kg into the plane for no extra charge, but charge us to check ANYTHING. I suppose the overhead bins will have room for a whole planeful of passengers (up to 180 pax in a Jetstar A320) storing 180 10kg bags in those lockers. Would ATRs or Beech 1900Ds accommodate bags of those side inside the cabin?

SkyJet Pacific - some people love to click a button and send their money into a vacuum.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12145 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 10051 times:
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Quoting Zkojh (Reply 15):

That was reported, I believe either late last year, or early this year. I started a new thread on it, and FJ had cancelled/reduced their Japan flights due to poor numbers

Quoting Macilree (Reply 16):

That was reported in the Thread #28, but I couldn't think of the name of the 'airline' involved ATT

Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 17):
Beech 1900Ds accommodate bags of those side inside the cabin?

The 1900s have no overhead storage lockers


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4830 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 9989 times:



Quoting Knid (Reply 6):
What would the maximum weight for one bag be, I assume that it would be 30kg? Will the baggage handers have to lift it? I wouldn't want to, and I guess ACC will be recalculating the levy as we speak...

IATA rules limit any single item to 32kg/70lbs. When using the Piece luggage system most airlines allow pax to have 2x32kg bags... although many have now amended their rules to 2x23kg (although one bag may be 32kg and the other would be 14kg).
AFAIK ACC doesn't have an issue with baggage handlers lifting 32kg bags so long as they have been trained in how to properly lift such a bag and that the bag is properly labelled as being heavy. Most injuries occur when a baggage handler thinks a bag is only going to be say 20kg when it is actually 32kg!

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 11):
My very strong recollection is that whenever I flew with "everything but the kitchen sink" it was because I really needed it. You might be surprised by how much stuff a small child in nappies requires in paraphernalia.

Either you had sick kids, or you indulged them because I fly several times a week (and have worked at the airport previously also) and see most parents get by quite fine with an umbrella stroller, a backpack, blanket (although there are those onboard most aircraft), and maybe one other bag with items like a bottle, teddybear.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineBlackLabel From New Zealand, joined Jan 2008, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9971 times:



Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 19):
Either you had sick kids, or you indulged them because I fly several times a week (and have worked at the airport previously also) and see most parents get by quite fine with an umbrella stroller, a backpack, blanket (although there are those onboard most aircraft), and maybe one other bag with items like a bottle, teddybear.

Domestic that may be the case, but certainly not for long haul international.


User currently offlineAerorobNZ From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7188 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9903 times:



Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 2):
And the bottom line is that because so many people have already been parents in the past (after all, where did we all come from?), a huge number of the public already understand exactly what I'm saying. It's also probably these "former" parents who now probably form the majority of the airline's pax, and who won't have forgotten how bloody hard it can be to travel with kids.

Actually from my experiences , it's amazing how quickly the maternal/paternal instincts disappear from the minds of passengers. Most Passengers have no tolerance whatsoever, even if they have had kids - in fact many people who raised kids before the human race in the western world became so precious (ie the last 10-15 years) about their children are actually the most critical of parents travelling with half their house & contents because they did without all the excess and still managed to raise their kids just fine. My parents are both teachers (primary & secondary), and I was discussing the issue with them, and they also agreed with me that from their experience as passengers watching other passengers onboard that parents cluttered their lives up with the latest gimmicks for families rather than actually doing the job of parenting and planning properly for the job at hand.

Quoting BlackLabel (Reply 20):
Domestic that may be the case, but certainly not for long haul international.

Both Zk and myself are talking about our experiences at the international terminal at AKL, the largest and busiest international point in the country... Wink Neither of us have dealt with the domestic terminal. Since thread #28 I have seen many more parents in the following days with infants & young children that have managed easily without excessive junk, even with the extended arrivals process.


User currently offlineBlackLabel From New Zealand, joined Jan 2008, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9867 times:



Quoting AerorobNZ (Reply 21):
Both Zk and myself are talking about our experiences at the international terminal at AKL, the largest and busiest international point in the country... Wink Neither of us have dealt with the domestic terminal. Since thread #28 I have seen many more parents in the following days with infants & young children that have managed easily without excessive junk, even with the extended arrivals process.

I guess there must be some special kids (especially infants or toddlers) that can travel long haul with only, and I quote "umbrella stroller, a backpack, blanket (although there are those onboard most aircraft), and maybe one other bag with items like a bottle, teddybear.". No mention of books, toys, food (!), nappies, etc.

I'm not a parent (and don't intend to be), but I am the uncle to 4 and have traveled extensively since I was born -- my father was a pilot. While I don't have much sympathy for people that do travel with excessive junk, it's outright niave to expect someone to fly 12+ hours with a blanket, bottle, and teddybear. You have to be kidding.


User currently offlineKnid From New Zealand, joined Aug 2005, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9836 times:



Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 19):
AFAIK ACC doesn't have an issue with baggage handlers lifting 32kg bags so long as they have been trained in how to properly lift such a bag and that the bag is properly labelled as being heavy. Most injuries occur when a baggage handler thinks a bag is only going to be say 20kg when it is actually 32kg!

No, but as more people try to cram more into one bag, then handlers are lifting one heavy bag instead of two light ones, and therefore a higher incidence of work related injuries, ACC, from my understanding, is incredibly versatile when it comes to upping the levy.

It never ceases to amaze me that people can be trained in the safe practices, but then ignore it, often knowing full well that it will have serious repercussions later in time.


User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9762 times:



Quoting AerorobNZ (Reply 21):
My parents are both teachers (primary & secondary), and I was discussing the issue with them, and they also agreed with me that from their experience as passengers watching other passengers onboard that parents cluttered their lives up with the latest gimmicks for families rather than actually doing the job of parenting and planning properly for the job at hand.

Actually, I don't entirely disagree, but it's not NZ's role to be in the vanguard of the "re-education" of parents. Whatever we might think about it, many parents do travel like that. NZ and other airlines can either accept it and cater for it, or piss them off. Now in PR terms, I think it's a no-brainer. You don't want to alienate any sector of your market, especially families, where you're hoping for brand loyalty over many decades in the future.



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
25 NZ747 : Anyone know for how long now Air NZ have been operating the sunday 772ER flight to Tahiti? I thought Air NZ were limited to the 767.
26 NZerinDXB : Can anyone back home provide an update on where NZ is at with the proposed new livery? This has been talked about for over two years since the brand r
27 777ER : This has been postponed, while other more important things are done like NZs A320 and B763 fleet IFE upgrade/cabin upgrade and the B733s cabin upgrad
28 777ER : Just heard on the 8am news, that NZ will let its pax decide if the new baggage system will go ahead
29 BlackLabel : Someone mentioned to me that the same news bulletin had NZ commenting that they are not making the change to make money, and that it will "cost them
30 DavidByrne : I think it's called "being nimble". Seriously, though, to judge from the reactions in the press and on A-net, NZ is in the unenviable situation of be
31 Alangirvan : Air NZ innovating? They seem to be following the big US carriers who have announced plans to charge for the second bag. I have not read the threads in
32 Georgebush : They are doing this out of practicality. Current system there is so much time lost while pax try to pack and repack their bags at the counter trying
33 Zkpilot : and here is the actual quote which you cut short: note the "one other bag with items LIKE a bottle, teddybear". Considering that food and drinks are
34 DavidByrne : I was casting my view more widely than just the second bag . . . any initiative by NZ seems to be controversial, no matter what they do, and my suspi
35 Post contains links Nzrich : Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 31): Air NZ innovating? They seem to be following the big US carriers who have announced plans to charge for the second bag.
36 Alangirvan : "Continental Airlines became the fifth major US carrier to raise its fees for a second checked bag (ATWOnline, March 31), announcing that economy clas
37 Koruman : I was pretty surprised to see it taking off as I watched from the Beachcomber on Saturday evening, especially as I had flown in on Air Tahiti Nui as
38 TG992 : Koruman, this may partly be my fault, because the TWO new routes that the LAX-NAN aircraft will be deployed on were announced at the same time as the
39 777ER : The flights I saw were advertised with B763s. Where does the spare B772 come from?
40 Koruman : I really hope you don't mean Osaka...... TN has had identical problems with Japan, and is now down to two weekly flights to Tokyo, one of which stops
41 DavidByrne : My info is that AKL-KIX 3x weekly was one of the routes involved, but there's been no announcement and no quiet "slipping into the schedules" so far.
42 TG992 : JAL actually pay for a block of seats on each flight - I'm not sure how many but I believe about 30-40%? They pay regardless of whether they manage to
43 777ER : Maybe if NZ want to continue Asian/Japan services, then it could be time to launch the flights under a sperate brand, like Jetstar?
44 DavidByrne : Freedom Air Mk 2 perhaps? Could be a worse brand on the international scene - "Freedom" is a bit like motherhood and apple pie. Hard to argue with, a
45 Knid : I know a few that have spent much more... although, they are likely to be the minority.
46 Post contains links 777ER : Airport revamp gets go-ahead AdvertisementThe $450 million redevelopment of Paraparaumu airport has been given the final go-ahead at a feisty eight-ho
47 Alangirvan : News item in Regional section of today's Otago Daily Times - a committee is being set up to promote Alexandra Airport, and direct future growth. In 10
48 Koruman : The more time I spend inFrench Polynesia, the more similar I realise their national airline and Air New Zealand are. Both have two core long-haul mark
49 Zkpilot : $450 MILLION??? in the words of John McEnroe "You can't be serious!" $100million maybe for a decent runway and a new regional terminal.... but $450m?
50 ZKSUJ : Wow, didn't see that one comming
51 Alangirvan : The part about Ski tourists from Asia was just my guessing. Alex might make a nice alternative ski gateway after Invercargill is well established in t
52 Axio : I don't know for certain, but I believe the development includes some substantial residential areas, and other such developments around the airport.
53 ZK-NBT : How about PER-BOM? They should just be done with KIX and axe it altogether.
54 777ER : I believe Paraparaumu's runway will be longer then WLGs, so IMHO we could be seeing long haul to Asia, US etc from Paraparaumu. Paraparaumu doesn't h
55 Rwy21 : Read that, seems like a continuation of the airport section of the district plan that was produced a few years back to make more use of the facility
56 NZ1 : PLEASE don't make me laugh too hard. We will NEVER see longhaul flights from PPQ to the USA or Asia. That's just crazy talk. NZ1
57 ZKSUJ : OK, I really didn't see that one comming.
58 777ER : Hearing that HLZ, ROT, Alexandra and Hastings/Napier wanting Intl/long haul is more crazier. We would never see long haul from Alexendra. PPQ would b
59 ZK-NBT : KIX is now loaded as a 5x weekly 763 from October 27th. Also daily flights to China appear to start then aswell with PVG being 4x weekly and PEK 3x we
60 PA515 : TG992, NZ's five 763's are fully utilised in the 27 Oct 08 Timetable. There are six showing on Thu and Fri, but those could be errors. Unless NZ is a
61 Post contains links 777ER : Aircraft delay 'good for the industry' Air New Zealand will probably be forced to delay the introduction of its new Boeing 787 Dreamliner as Boeing st
62 TG992 : It's an increase on an existing route that generally drops services for half of the year. Didn't say it was a new route.
63 Knid : Perhaps they could pick up some 757's from TZ, and use them out to PER, and maybe some routes out of WLG, I think that 767 crews only require minimal
64 PA515 : Oh, okay. Is PER Longhaul or TransTasman? Also, there is a 772 unaccounted for in the 27 Oct 08 Timetable. Is there something happening with that? PA
65 Pilotdude09 : Cant See NZ introduce a new type to the fleet and an an old aircraft as well. And PER does very well at filling up a 763 in Y and J, so NZ would just
66 Knid : Not of they go 2x daily with them, TZ needs quick sale, NZ's got a war chest, and debt financing today is VERY difficult, especially in the US.
67 NZ747 : Haha, in the word of Tui, YEAH RIGHT!! That's almost like having a Gore International Airport.
68 Rongotai : Will NZ HKG-LHR benefit significantly from the shutdown of Oasis?
69 Alangirvan : What is wrong with having Gore International Airport? Is that an inconvenient truth? A long haul flight from Paraparaumu would be Dunedin, in a Q300,
70 Axio : Just a little summary of what is possibly available from ATA. Looking on airfleets - ATA has the following stored: (serial, type, first flight, reg.)
71 SunriseValley : The Boeing general characteristics table shows 5 different MTOW versions of the 757-200 . Assuming the mid-range of 240k lbs , the load/range chart s
72 777ER : PER is considered long haul, but on NZs booking site with reference to airpoints, its considerd a TT route 45+ mins drive from WLG. PPQs catchment ar
73 777ER : -OKC carried the troops from Ohakea today
74 777ER : NZ are having an Anzac Biscuit bake off in CHC on Thursday 10th. Will the kiwi receipe beat the aussie receipe?
75 Post contains links 777ER : Airbus's chief executive and John Leahy are in AKL having talks with NZ! Is there an Airbus order coming? http://www.stuff.co.nz/4472407a13.html
76 Flyjetstar : My reading of the article doesn't give me anything to be excited about but with the 787 delays what will NZ do to fill the gaps - of anything.[Edited
77 Aotearoa : I had the good fortune to spend some time with Tom Enders (Airbus CEO) and John Leahy (Airbus Chief Commercial Officer) recently. When questioned on t
78 Pilotdude09 : Personally i think NZ would order or lease A330's long before they took on 757's. The A330 would suit more routes anyway. Also if NZ changed to a 757
79 REALDEAL : isn't there a lot of commonality between 757's & 767's ? ie. for pilots etc.? Also surely there must be some desperate lessors out there (assuming th
80 Knid : I had a dig around, the TZ's are 255k, and with 40kt, this should give them an extra 10-12k to play with, so with 180 pax it will get there, but with
81 ZKSUJ : So with Oasis shutting down, are NZ trying to accomodate some of the PAX that have missed out on the HKG-LHR-HKG routes?
82 Koruman : Now that the 787 is so late, Airbus are pitching the A350XWB at airlines which chose the 787 over the old A350, and are offering 2009-10 delivery of
83 Georgebush : That would be a good idea, offer them next-to-nothing last minute seats to fill up our planes and save the stranded Oasis passengers. An update about
84 REALDEAL : here's another possibility out of left field ... NZ could combine AKL/ADL with AKL/PER by flying AKL/ADL/PER & v.v. certain days of week or everyday
85 Georgebush : Is there any other competition on the AKL-PER sector?? The only thing I would see would be the lack of the non-stop. Also the ADL-AKL schedule is ver
86 Zkpilot : Who would fly the A330? If it was Zeal A320 pilots then whilst similar, they would need to get a new typerating. On the other hand the 757/767 family
87 Pilotdude09 : No, but there are rumours EK may look at it in the coming few years. That would basically kill both routes. People want to fly to NZ direct, otherwis
88 PA515 : Since yesterday NZ has removed the additional Th AKL-YVR and the Su AKL-PEK from the 27 Oct 08 Timetable. AKL-YVR is back to We Fr Su and AKL-PEK is n
89 PA515 : False alarm. On checking further the Th AKL-YVR is in the Timetable eff. 4th Dec and the Su AKL-PEK eff. 7th Dec, so these were just incorrectly loade
90 Jamie86 : Do u know what the route of that flight was? I know they going to Dubai, does the 777 have the range for Ohakea to dubai? or would PER be a good tran
91 SunriseValley : SYD would be better. It appears to be close to the great circle route. ESAD SYD-DXB is about 6900nm which is doable depending on whether all seats we
92 SunriseValley : The Boeing update this morning is putting the EIS of the 787-9 as early 2012. Thus it appears as if the delay to NZ will be somewhere between 12 to 18
93 Mariner : I agree with you - again. Sadly, I don't think it will happen. mariner
94 777ER : NZ is only airline direct, but obviously QF offer PER-AKL via BNE and SYD No, only saw it on the news
95 Post contains links 777ER : Air NZ to allow texting on flights C U SOON: Air New Zealand has indicated it will allow passengers to send text messages but not make calls on board
96 777ER : NZ must be finding it hard to sell their aussie flights from CHC, as all four destinations (BNE, OOL, SYD and MEL) are on Grab a Seat this afternoon.
97 DavidByrne : I'm interested to know whether NZ would seriously consider an offer like this, given that it effectively involves replacement of aircraft which have
98 Post contains links PA515 : Routing was OHA-PER-NHD (Minhad AB, UAE) as 'Kiwi 782' according to www.jetspotter.com Forum, New Zealand, Sticky: NZ Aircraft Movements & Logs April
99 Post contains links and images Flyjetstar : Yeah right. That sounds like a valid conclusion from whats on offer. Air New Zealand is likely to seek compensation from Boeing following the announc
100 Axio : Yes But sometimes speculation is fun. ax
101 Koruman : But the 787-9 is now delayed to 2012 at least, so there may be scope here. The problem is not the 787-9 or even the 777-300ER. The problem is that oi
102 Aerohottie : This is where we deviate slightly... and only slightly. I think Airbus would offer 8x 332 as 767 replacement, 8x 345 as 772ER replacement and 8x 346
103 REALDEAL : larger airlines realise that they need both Boeing & Airbus to survive long term & be healthy, so really need to order from both camps. If either Boe
104 DavidByrne : I was actually referring to the 77W order, which would be subject to cancellation penalties and not mitigated by compensation from Boeing for late de
105 Post contains links SunriseValley : But NZ declined the 345 in favor of the 772ER back in 2004. Why would they change now? I agree fuel prices are high but the cost of ownership on the
106 Aerohottie : Your right... after posting I actually thought that what I had originally put was not optimal. I would actually retain the 772ER's, but still take on
107 DavidByrne : Please corerct me if I'm wrong, but I had been under the impression that existing models would be unlikely to comply with EDTO rules, and that it was
108 ANstar : QF have just announced 6 more A330's for jetstar to cover 787 delays.
109 REALDEAL : ok what about a new route PER/CHC ? It's about 200 miles shorter than PER/AKL (so westbound weight wise mightn't be such a problem) & assuming NZ cou
110 Zkpilot : and MEL. There is so much demand for the 77W that either Boeing would be happy to have those aircraft available for someone else (especially due to i
111 DavidByrne : . . . and this despite it being completely obsolete technology . . . But, seriously, what's in it for NZ to abandon that order? They'd need to get an
112 Zkpilot : I'm not saying NZ should take this up, I was only talking about NZ having options to do this deal if they so wished... The 777 is not obsolete... the
113 NZ1 : Sure is. NZ1
114 Kiwiandrew : it would seem a bit strange for NZ to spend so much money on the 767 upgrade if they were only going to get 18 months of benefit from the programme -
115 TG992 : I hear the 767 will be around until the WWI centenary now.
116 Kiwiandrew : well that could be interpreted two ways , 2014 , centenary of the start , or 2018 , centenary of the end - but I assume that you meant 2014 rather th
117 777ER : Why would NZ want to replace their B772s/B744s with an aircraft thats more fuel thirsty then the B744s? If Airbus do do that offer, then it just show
118 Post contains links Axio : Whatever happened to the regional jet routes that Air NZ indicated would be announced in March? Is the requisite 737 not confirmed? Or was it bluster
119 Mariner : We don't know that Airbus has made that offer. Or I don't. Nor do I see why it makes Airbus "desperate". On the other hand, if they have made that of
120 777ER : Thats why I put in the word if. The A340s arn't selling. Boeings T7 is outselling the A340 family 3 to 1. Airbus has in the past offered big discount
121 Mariner : Airbus knows that. It was a recognition of market reality. Airbus wasn't offering to "pay" airlines to take the A340. As the price of oil started to
122 777ER : At the time Airbus was offering the discounts, fuel wasn't as expensive as it is now. Airbus was only offering the deals because of Boeing selling a
123 Mariner : I disagree with some of your statements, but I'm not here to fight. I simply don't understand your position on selling. You said they are "desperate".
124 Koruman : Believe it or not, Airbus try to sell Airbuses. 777ER is quite right, the A340 is generally unpopular but the A330 sells well, with Qantas, for exampl
125 ZKSUJ : I personally think A380s in NZ colours is a bit far fetched. I'd see the 748i as a bigger threat to the A380 if I was NZ managment, but thats me, a B
126 Mariner : I think both are too much lift for Mr. Fyfe's version of Air NZ, but if they go for a VLA, I'd have to disagree with you. More importantly, I strongl
127 Koruman : I know that 777ER's nom de plume betrays his favourites, but it was only after writing about Airbus opportunities that I realised that Air New Zealand
128 777ER : The A380 would be too big for NZ, especially with the config that you suggested, and especially in the config style on the B744s. Didn't those airlin
129 MotorHussy : And yet the former Portuguese colonies in the south have been supportive of the triple-seven with TAAG, Varig and TAM all buying into the big twin -
130 Alangirvan : Something strange happened at Qantas in early 2000. The British magazine AirlinerWorld had an artists impression of a 777 in Qantas colours, and told
131 Mariner : The family has sold well over 1000 frames, so I don't think they can be called dogs, but I don't buy into the Airbus v. Boeing wars. I'm more concern
132 Koruman : These flights mainly are to Europe, and hug the coast, negating ETOPS issues. Are you sure? Until 2005 the 747 had 12 First and 66 Business Class sea
133 Nzrich : I actually agree with you on the main routes AKL-HKG/LAX-LHR a A380 could be a reality in the future especially if slots at LHR become too expensive
134 PA515 : 2007 Air NZ Annual Report, 21. Capital Commitments (page 31) On 3 August 2007, the Company confirmed the purchase of four Boeing 777-300ER aircraft,
135 Koruman : And I put it to you that the airline is delaying firming up the three options because........ 1 Current experience with the 747 suggests they need a
136 Knid : Air NZ went shopping at a different time, and most believe that they managed to get a pretty good deal. So do I, however the LAX-LHR leg may be cause
137 777ER : That really isn't a good comparason. Its like your putting the B777 and B767 into the same family. Both the A340/B777 and the A330/B767 are two total
138 Post contains links 777ER : Shareholders brace for airport deal decision A $1.8 billion windfall for Auckland airport shareholders is up in the air as the Government prepares to
139 Post contains links Mariner : I shrug. I really don't come here to fight. Airbus regards the A330/A340 as one family and the aircraft are made on the same production line. EADS: "
140 Knid : Well they said no. What a farce, I guess the next step would be a judicial review, should the Canadians wish to proceed, however under what grounds t
141 Post contains links DavidByrne : Quoting 777ER (Reply 122): Airbus couldn't compete with a market leading aircraft that the B777 is I think that the sales of the A330 over the last 12
142 Mariner : Not this one. I don't think I am "entitled" to anything - from anyone - and what you suggest is simply not the way I function. It is what I do. I am,
143 DavidByrne : Mariner, I'm absolutely with you on this, it's exactly how I see things too. And the comment wasn't directed at you!
144 Post contains images Mariner : It's okay, one way or the other, I've got a hide like a rhinoceros.   Really, because I am reasonably new (to the NZ threads) I think I was just let
145 Zkpilot : That is not the reason why QF replaced AKL-LAX with an A330 and you know that. QF replaced the 744 with the A330 (3 times per week only) to allow ext
146 DavidByrne : . . . and as I understand it, the service will revert to an all-744 operation when sufficient A380 capacity has been delivered.
147 NZ107 : Yeah, I heard that too. John Key said if he was in power now he'd accept it.. Wonder if they'll try again next year.
148 777ER : I know QF didn't operate to South America before, I was just using that destination as an example as to where 4 engines are required due to ETOPS. An
149 DavidByrne : Actually, QF did fly SYD-AKL-EZE in the past, then stopped.
150 DavidByrne : It wasn't actually directed at anybody in particular - just an observation that A-netters in general would appear to know more about airline strategy
151 777ER : Wasn't that route with a B742?
152 ZKSUJ : If I'm not wrong a 744 did that for a while.
153 ANstar : It was a 747-400 when it was axed
154 Koruman : I find these assertions fascinating, but vehemently disagree. If you read the airline's annual reports, you could be forgiven for thinking that some
155 AerorobNZ : You are thinking of when QF43/44 continued to PPT....
156 Knid : Ownership structures/rights can get very complex, often it depends on the individual company its self. As for it been illegal, well we have an unwrit
157 Mariner : Hmmmmm. It is this word "entitlement" that worries me. The shareholders, big and small, own the company. The shareholders elect the directors who mak
158 DavidByrne : You're absolutely correct in that there was no proof offered, but my question is whether a business in a highly competitive market should be effectiv
159 Knid : You, as a shareholder are entitled to answers, you can go to the AGM and ask them, information is provided in the financial statements released to yo
160 Alangirvan : Many years ago there was a magazine Lloyds Aviation Economist (is it still going?) It may sound a bit boring but it was a useful read. I remember one
161 Zkpilot : as I said... Um.....................huh? How did my username get included there as a quote??? Whilst I agree that being a shareholder does entitle yo
162 Mariner : I did make that point. As in: There are a few other things. Military charters to high security destinations, for example. And I assume that, at some
163 Post contains links Macilree : As noted in the 2002 New Zealand Transport Strategy (see page 52), the Ministry of Transport does consult a range of stakeholders on their priorities
164 Mariner : Yes, I understand that. I am only saying that there "may" be exceptions to information provided to shareholders for reasons that I accept. And, equal
165 Georgebush : Hope no one on here is traveling to LHR via Asia in the next few weeks, a memo has been put out advising due to Oasis shutting down flights HKG-LHR wi
166 Airnewzealand : Koruman, Why is it that passenger numbers are the be all or end all to you?? PVG is performing fine...yes the passenger numbers are not there, but lik
167 Koruman : Air New Zealand could just operate more frequent freighter services, and I would have no complaint. The fact is, the airline only has eight efficient
168 Xiaotung : I know you are not gonna like it Koruman, but PVG & PEK together will be daily by the end of year. I tried to get my friends upgraded yesterday on the
169 Airnewzealand : Thanks for the reply Koruman. I see your point of view in regards to limited aircraft. Cheers
170 777ER : I guess your not going to like this Xiaotung, but Rob Fyfe has even admitted that the PVG flights are crap in terms of loads, and low yielding Chines
171 Xiaotung : I thought having PVG and PEK on Grabaseat recently was a PR thing due to the Chinese crew pay incident. It's just hard to believe if PVG is doing so
172 777ER : Why would NZ have PVG and PEK as a PR thing with dirt cheap fares? NZ loads to PVG are poor, especially with Kiwis, and the whole reason for PVG and
173 Xiaotung : I meant PEK x 3 & PVG x 4 which is daily into Mainland China. PVG can't be operated by B763 probably because there isn't enough space for cargo under
174 777ER : Mainland China should have B763 equipment, and to help with the freight, put on an extra B744F
175 Koruman : Excellent question. CEO Fyfe two weeks ago admitted that fewer than 100 seats to China per week are sold to non-Chinese Kiwis. That is bad enough as
176 HLZCPH : I thought the B763 didn't have the legs to get that far from here?
177 Koruman : That's what you are meant to think, but Shanghai is only 439 km further than Osaka and 191 km further than Hong Kong. Of course if passenger services
178 Knid : Does NZ have a few of these in the back shed, just waiting for a trip up to PVG to get the extra freight??
179 Koruman : Or put differently, the 777-200ER carries loads of freight PVG-AKL, but how does it fare in the other direction?
180 TG992 : Koruman, I respect your passion about the way you'd like to see Air NZ run, but this sentence is absolute bollocks.
181 Koruman : OK TG992 I will withdraw it. Comes of having a best friend from uni days from HKG who is not a big fan of the PRC establishment. I'd also like to add
182 DavidByrne : Sorry, no idea! Well, they had LAX with dirt cheap fares on Grabaseat a few months back and no one read that as an indication that the LAX route was
183 DavidByrne : My apologies, K'man - your message appeared while I was composing mine. I still think, though, that even to raise the spectre of corruption at NZ eve
184 777ER : Well you kind if did with the first quote! NZ doesn't have any Freighters in its fleet, but SQ has, and NZ freighter partner does LAX on Grab a Seat
185 Post contains links 777ER : Airport in search of a deal running short of options So let's get over the blatant politicking that killed the Canadian deal over Auckland Internation
186 Alangirvan : AirNZ like many other airlines does not operate its own freighters, but charters other specialist Cargo Airlines, or buys space on Freighters that ar
187 ZK-NBT : It was always a 744 on SYD-AKL-EZE! I believe when NZ was choosing beween Boeing and Airbus for the Widebody order they came very close to ordering A
188 Jamie86 : has anyone got a photo shop image of what Air NZ colours would look like on the A340-500. I think it would look awesome!
189 NZ107 : The LAX/SFO flights were last offered for over the xmas/new year period - Is that really a down time?
190 Xiaotung : Spot on!
191 DavidByrne : Rumours flying on other threads about the impending collapse of Aerolineas Argentinas. I'm wondering whether NZ has a contingency plan in the event th
192 ZK-NBT : It will be sad if AR go under. What else can I say other than get some real managment, this airline has been clowned around for years sadly! NZ6 is a
193 777ER : LAX-AKL is popular around that time with Americans wanting to escape the American winter and explore NZ and Oz, but AKL-LAX isn't really popular at X
194 ZK-NBT : Also AR are scheduled to go 5x weekly on the AKL/SYD route from next southern summer. So the market is growing, though LAN will reduce to 6x weekly at
195 TG992 : I don't think you can do AKL-NRT on 1 frame. Don't forget a lot of the returns route via CHC.
196 DavidByrne : Yes, it's actually slightly more than a 24-hour turnaround, but in combination with (say) AKL-YVR or AKL-LAX 772 services, which are around a 36-hour
197 Koruman : I do hope this topic continues into thread 30. The decision to refleet with the 777 from 2005 followed by the 787 from 2009 made good sense at the ti
198 ZKSUJ : I was thinking the same thing if that was the case...
199 GarethW : Yep agree with all that Koruman as well as your post earliler in the thread suggesting that NZ should have gone with an A332, A345 & A346 combination
200 Koruman : Here again, the airline is trapped with a long-haul fleet where the 747 and 777 are trapped with too much capacity, and the 767 fleet is having to be
201 ANstar : I presume QF have picked up any slack that was there with their new SYD-EZE service. I believe they have also added a JNB frequency
202 PA515 : NZ 3/4 AKL-LAX-AKL 772 Fri & Sun, 12th Dec 08 to 18th Jan 09, are now in the Timetable, but no seasonal AKL-HKG-AKL so far. There is space in the Tim
203 Post contains links 777ER : Airline says 'no' to help A Christchurch tetraplegic is being forced to pay thousands of dollars for an in-flight carer because Air New Zealand staff
204 Koruman : You guys have answered the question yourselves. Most days of the year LAX-AKL is served by Option 1 - one 747 - [46J,31U,294Y] plus one 777 [26J,18U,
205 ZKSUJ : Wasn't there a discussion about something similar a year or so ago? Anyway it came to the conclusion (If I'm not mistaken) that some one whch is actu
206 MotorHussy : There are also a helluva lot of expat Kiwis living elsewhere that like to come home for Xmas.
207 Post contains links Alangirvan : http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/3932778/ As a comparison with our discussion about routes to China, look at the threa
208 REALDEAL : " target=_blank>http://www.stuff.co.nz/4479879a11.html surely a wheelchair that would fit down the aisles could be found ????????????????
209 GarethW : Yep dead right. The problem in that the way I see it is that the A380 is probably fine for existing 744 routes, however would be far too much plane f
210 VHVXB : NZ will once again operate 2 additional flights per week to LAX between DEC12 and JAN19. Flights will be on the Fridays and Sunday (NZ3/4)
211 Airnewzealand : interesting...Many passenger i serve (talk to) actually WANT to go to the states especially Canda for the skiing holidays (whilst uni is off). LAX vi
212 Alangirvan : Quick look at Great Circle Mapper shows AKL-PVG as 5800 miles vs 7600 miles for ATL-PVG. Perhaps a Performance person can tell us the difference in w
213 Axio : Try 5.2 million in the metro area.
214 AerorobNZ : The AR aircraft, like ZK-SUH are -475 specification. However unless they were able to be leased as cheaply as the current 744s i can't seem them bein
215 SunriseValley : quote=GarethW,reply=209]With the ETOPS thing in play, the 77L would do it but with diversions I believe (reducing viability),[/quote] I see you have
216 Koruman : I just cannot believe what I am reading here. Greater Atlanta has a population 50% bigger than the whole of New Zealand, but what's more..... 1) It h
217 Koruman : By the way, any thoughts on whether Air NZ should use the Delta / Northwest merger to take over more of Terminal 2 at Los Angeles when NW joins DL in
218 Alangirvan : I was trying to summarise the comment from about 34 posts on this topic as discussed in the link. The main point was that DL are very pleased with the
219 777ER : 100% correct, and I fully support NZs stance on this. If the pax don't like it, then whats stopping them flying via SYD on QF or UA? NZs YVR service
220 SXI899 : I have my doubts as to how effective this would be. You've pointed out the relatively high operating costs of the B744 yourself, and the additional c
221 DavidByrne : What confuses me is that NZ should run the extra NZ3/4 services at the same time as they offer the cheap Grabaseat deal. If getting bums on seats was
222 Post contains links 777ER : Thread #30 http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/3937739/
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