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CO Flight Returns To TLV-engine Shutdown  
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 24
Posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7828 times:

A Continental 777 flight from TLV to New York experienced Inflight Engine Shutdown and had to return to Tel Aviv..

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/971875.html

[Edited 2008-04-05 09:07:56]


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHypercott From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7748 times:

Funny comment concerning Haaretz article:
ETOPS --> Engines Turn On or Passengers Swim

Lots of inflight shut downs recently on 777s. Or is the rate we are hearing about these incidents normal since there are so many triple-7s out there?


User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9119 posts, RR: 76
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7700 times:
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Quoting Hypercott (Reply 1):
Lots of inflight shut downs recently on 777s

Yupp, there have been quite a few lately... And I dont think its because there are so many 777s out there. Or how often do you hear from an A330 or B744 inflight shutdown? Dont hear many of them...

4 engines 4 long haul 7  bigthumbsup 

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 3073 posts, RR: 23
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7696 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

It's back on its way again, albeit 6 hours late.

Shamu



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlineFerret From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7684 times:

Any explanation of why the engine shutdown?


Murphy lives here.
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7657 times:

One can never exclude faulty instrument-indications or sensor-errors - but it's always tied to the dumping of huge amounts of fuel at great cost .Would a 777 withstand a landing with fully loaded tanks ??


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9119 posts, RR: 76
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7624 times:
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Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 5):
Would a 777 withstand a landing with fully loaded tanks ??

You always have the option to do an overweight landing which should be avoided if possible! The stress for the landing gear and the tires are pretty huge. We did an overweight landing in the MD11F in the simulator once! Landing weight was 275tons, (MTOW was 286 tons), approach speed was 185 knots and wow, we needed quite a bit of the 4000m runway! The brakes got warm, but not too hot, thank god to the reverser! But that was pretty impressive!
So its possible, but SHOULD be avoided! But if you are on fire: get on the ground ASAP!!!!

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineWingnutMN From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 653 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7520 times:

On the CRJ2, landing at max weight 53000 lbs, with no flaps, your landing speed is 1 kt less than the max tire rotation speed of the nosewheel.

WingnutMN



Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9836 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 7309 times:

The article says that there was an engine temperature warning. I'm surprised that they had 70 ambulences ready for that emergency. With an engine temperature warning, shutting down the engine and getting under max landing weight are logical steps. No overweight landing would be needed.

Quoting WingnutMN (Reply 7):
On the CRJ2, landing at max weight 53000 lbs, with no flaps, your landing speed is 1 kt less than the max tire rotation speed of the nosewheel.

While a scary fact, it was probably designed that way. There probably is a safety margin on the rotation speed of the nosewheel, but one common thing you'll find in the design of airplanes is that if a margin is not needed, there is none. Airplanes are not designed to perform more than they need to. If they did, they'd be so heavy that they'd never get off the ground.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7220 times:



Quoting Hypercott (Reply 1):
Or is the rate we are hearing about these incidents normal since there are so many triple-7s out there?



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 2):
Or how often do you hear from an A330 or B744 inflight shutdown?



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 2):
Dont hear many of them

....allow the highlights to speak for themselves.


User currently offlineAvi From Israel, joined Sep 2001, 943 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7022 times:



Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 8):
The article says that there was an engine temperature warning. I'm surprised that they had 70 ambulences ready for that emergency. With an engine temperature warning, shutting down the engine and getting under max landing weight are logical steps. No overweight landing would be needed.

Because this is Israel in general and Ben Gurion airport in particular.
We completely lost it.
Someone wanted to make sure he was covering his ass very well so he pressed the panic button for no reason at all.
Here is a link to a web page (in Hebrew but it doesn't matter) where you can see the enormous amount of emergency vehicles at the airport: http://www.hnn.co.il/index.php?module=albums;task=view;id=4572

What you can't see is the (many) police vehicles that spread from the airport to hospitals in the area "to clear the road for the emergency vehicles if needed".

I wonder how much it cost us.

Shame on us.



Long live the B747
User currently offlineFuturecaptain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6964 times:



Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 8):
I'm surprised that they had 70 ambulences ready for that emergency.

Better to have them and not need it. The BA flight that diverted had emergency vehicles standing my today also IIRC.

If for some reason the flight did need emergency help and the captain didn't request it, everyone would be complaining about how he should have forseen things going badly and should be fired or whatever. You can't win no matter what you do here it seems.


User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6759 times:



Quoting Hypercott (Reply 1):

Lots of inflight shut downs recently on 777s.

Not particularly. A lot more inflight shutdown have been publicized, but that's a different factor.

Quoting Hypercott (Reply 1):
Or is the rate we are hearing about these incidents normal since there are so many triple-7s out there?

The actual shutdown rate is pretty normal. The pubically reported rate is abnormally high, primarily thanks to press sensitivity after the BA crash.

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 2):
Yupp, there have been quite a few lately... And I dont think its because there are so many 777s out there. Or how often do you hear from an A330 or B744 inflight shutdown? Dont hear many of them...

Exactly, you don't hear about them. The vast majority of shutdowns to do make it into the press.

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 5):
Would a 777 withstand a landing with fully loaded tanks ??

Yes, but it's a bad idea. The plane took off at MTOW so it's physically capable of landing at MTOW, but there's basically no margin left.

Tom.


User currently offlineIAHcsr From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3469 posts, RR: 41
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6653 times:
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Ship 012/N77012 .. Going right back out to TLV as CO 90 .. a bit late ..


Working very hard to Fly Right....
User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3849 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6439 times:



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 12):
The vast majority of shutdowns to do make it into the press.

Absolutely. Especially on quads, even when they have to return or divert. Even though quads statistically suffer from more IFSD than twins.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9119 posts, RR: 76
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6439 times:
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Quoting Francoflier (Reply 14):
Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 12):
The vast majority of shutdowns to do make it into the press.

Absolutely. Especially on quads, even when they have to return or divert.

Unless they continue from LAX to LHR and then land in MAN  duck 

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3849 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6304 times:



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 15):
Unless they continue from LAX to LHR and then land in MAN

What's wrong with that? Surely the prospect of flying on three engines is not something too shocking for you.  Wink



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9119 posts, RR: 76
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6290 times:
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Quoting Francoflier (Reply 16):
What's wrong with that? Surely the prospect of flying on three engines is not something too shocking for you.

No, NOT for me! But BA got in some trouble because they did, although Boeing says: no big deal and no problem at all! No operational cut backs...
I don't have a problem to fly an MD11F with only one engine running. Big grin But I would'nt continue over the pond then Big grin

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineMX757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 628 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6134 times:

The cause of the air return was right engine anti-ice EICAS messages. One was for right engine anti-ice loss and the other for right engine anti-ice leak. If these messages are displayed the flight crew checklist requires the pilots to land the aircraft at the nearest suitable airport. The right was not shutdown but the pilots did have to jettison fuel.

The technicians in TLV found a broken wire on one of the overheat detectors and repaired it. Ship 012 has been flying fine ever since.



Is it broke...? Yeah I'll fix it.
User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9119 posts, RR: 76
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6129 times:
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Quoting MX757 (Reply 18):

Thanks for the information here... I hate to dump fuel! Thank god I never had to do it yet...

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5948 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 5):
One can never exclude faulty instrument-indications or sensor-errors - but it's always tied to the dumping of huge amounts of fuel at great cost

wasn't so far off with that remark..
Lately engine trouble on 777 engines (at least on AF..) tend to be paired with vibrations caused by compressor-blade faults.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3849 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5933 times:



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 17):
No, NOT for me! But BA got in some trouble because they did, although Boeing says: no big deal and no problem at all! No operational cut backs...

Nah, I was just kidding. As for BA, well, I guess there's a subtle difference between an enroute diversion and a tech stop for fuel... Big grin



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineC8j2h From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4925 times:



Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 9):

....allow the highlights to speak for themselves.

Nice double entendre : )


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 24
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4108 times:

As it appears and mailed by PM to my attention,the CO flight seemingly only throttled back to idle on one engine but the engine was not completely shut down.This for the records and to comply with facts as experienced.


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineAvi From Israel, joined Sep 2001, 943 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3408 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 23):
As it appears and mailed by PM to my attention,the CO flight seemingly only throttled back to idle on one engine but the engine was not completely shut down.This for the records and to comply with facts as experienced.

Indeed, I heard that too and still the pilots officially declared an emergency (why?) so the airport authorities had no choice but to follow the protocols and press the "panic button".



Long live the B747
25 WILCO737 : Well, we have a rule which says: If you don't have any redundancy left: declare emergency! And with one engine MAYBE not being capable of producing e
26 777gk : A few reasons why declaring an emergency is clearly the prudent move here (something I would have done as well): -You can never be positively certain
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