Flycro From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 379 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 11451 times:
The whole of the UK is an embarassment whenever there is a flurry of snow. We can't cope in winter and we can't cope in summer when the sun comes out.
Willie must be jumping for joy today being able to blame T5 wows on the weather rather than "teething troubles"
AireuropeF100 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 11345 times:
Gatwick was closed for around an hour to allow clearing of 26L and is now reopen but with only useable exit off the runway at the moment, so number of arrivals seems to be at a slower pace than normal. About 4 inches of snow in the Crawley/gatwick area at the moment and still pouring down.
Hotelmode From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 469 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 11313 times:
Quoting Orion737 (Reply 5): How come airlines operating in snow half the year
Surely half the year is the point. Are you suggesting spending millions replicating the aircraft/airfield de-icing capabilities of the Scandinavian countries? Plus its one thing dealing with lying snow and quite another dealing with falling snow. Most airports go wrong when its actually falling. Try JFK or any other NE Seaboard airfield when it snows, as it does several times per year.
AireuropeF100 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 11260 times:
First departure at LGW for a couple of hours has just gone, seem to be clearing arrival backlog as priority. This flight was the 0725 EZY835 to Lyon so 3 hours late, and checking the departure screens most departures seem to be on a 2-3.5 hr delay.
Theginge From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 1186 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 10924 times:
Quoting Orion737 (Reply 5): How come airlines operating in snow half the year, like SAS, Austrian and Swiss manage to operate yet first flurry of snow and BA cancels 50 flights!!!!!!
I think the reason that all the flights diverted was that they closed the runways to De Ice them earlier on in the day which led to Air Holding of about an hour, and some of the aircraft did not have fuel to do this so had no option but to divert.
I think the problem at LHR that affects BA mostly is the lack of slack in the schedules, and also the fact that it doesn't snow much at LHR. So they have limitied de icing rigs available, it is pointless buying more when you only use them 10 times a year. This means that queues start building for de icing, some can be over an hour or more. This in turn makes the flight late. Then if it is coming in to the UK from within Europe it might then get held up by an ATC slot restrcition at LHR as these normally occur during bad weather. Then this means when the aircraft get back to LHR it could be over 2 hours late, at this point the aircraft and crew should have been long out of LHR on the way somewhere else. The only way to stop the schedule slipping further, meaning avoiding stuff still coming in at 3am the next morning, is to cancel some flights. Otherwise the delays just snowball and snowball meaning the whole lot grinds to a halt.
SAS etc are at airports that are well equipped for snow, and they have a smaller operation, which gives them a better chance than BA has in this sort of weather.
It is not only BA that cancels flights, it is just that as they have 40% of the LHR slots people notice when it does, and anything at LHR affects them 5 times more than anyone else.
Cusaeng From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 10856 times:
Quoting Theginge (Reply 22): I think the problem at LHR that affects BA mostly is ........................
Thats a pretty good explination as to why BA are hit the worst when it comes to bad weather at lhr.
Other airports that are under a constant risk of snow are better prepared to handle the issues that come with it.
apparently BA cancelled another 50 flights due to the snow, beside 12 being cancelled for the baggage system fault...
Honestly, they get worse. They are a national embarassment.
And what would you suggest they do? Try to run all the flights, which will get later and later due to reduced movements at LHR, delaying later flights during the day? Far better to cancel some flights, allow some slack in the system and get as many flights as possible away relatively on time. It's a given that whenever bad weather hits LHR and movements go down, something's got to give, and BA being by far the largest carrier at LHR are going to have bear the brunt of it.
Neither the snow, nor the baggage system problems this weekend, are in any way BA's fault.
I'm by no means a fan of everything BA does, but to suggest they are a "national embarrassment" based on cancelling some flights because two events outside their control cropped up, is ridiculous.
Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned forever skyward
: To give you some idea of what BA is up against. The first flight LHR-ARN this morning was due out of LHR 0640. It pushed back at 0915 and ETA ARN is 1
: The runways at LHR and LGW are three of the most highly utilised runways in the world. Of course snow is going to cause disruption. The only 'national
: Well, I just got off of DL001 from JFK into LHR this morning. Our originally scheduled arrival time was 0925, and we were estimating an early arrival
: I was out gritting last night and then got woken up this morning for snow clearing...The sites we went to had no snow what so ever and the sun was spl
: Darn! Trust me to be stuck at home in Lancashire whilst BHX gets the diversions! Surely they don't grit the runways?
: Perhaps Willie Walsh could use that at T5, "Wrong kind of baggage"
: You can bomb Britain, go on strike, you can do what ever you like but if you really want to screw us up - just make it snow.
: Apparently, they use Potassium acetate on runway surfaces rather than grit as it's less corrosive: http://www.dresden-airport.de/en/str...emitteilung
: Trying to get something off your chest?
: Of course not they use a type deicing brine to spray the runways with at LHR an that was why they closed the north runway. I guess that the air craft
: Before I got stationed at RAF Mildenhall, someone told me it doesn't snow in England because it's an island. I saw a lot of snow in the winter of '90
: That is not my quote about runways, reply 30 is about luggage. Something wrong with the link here???
: True. LHR has more than three times as much traffic as ARN, but ARN has three runways. This means that even at peak hours, one runway can be closed f
: Exactly. A bunch of pointless, repetitive posts. Again.
: In the long-term London can't avoid to address the construction of a new, large airport with 4 runways.. I was under the impression there exists a pro
: The snow is Dreadfully heavy where i am..........
: Thanks! very informational. Some questions: 1a. Since airports are designed for peak loading rather than average, should BAA not have more invested i
: Please define "heavy." I'll bet it's less than 1/4 inch an hour and/or less than an inch on the ground. Two weeks ago, I drove through 20 inches that
: Your right, its not really heavy, least not here. britain rarely gets heavy snowfall anymore. We get more wind and rain though
: De Icing is down to the individual airline or ground handling company, nothing to do with the Airport Operator. It isn't really worth the cost as eac
: Thanks again. As for the GBP100K per rig, that is less than .01% of the cost of T5 - peanuts (IMHO), even for sporadic use! I guess its a cost-benefi
: And people talk about Alitalia being a bad airline. I wouldn't touch BA now at all. They have many lessons to learn. But as for the weather. The firs
: I suggest they run a decent service. Which they don't. Slightest suggestion of trouble, the whole airline goes into meltdown, and all short haul rout
: Oh dear. You seem to be confusing BA with BAA.
: And while all this was going on, STN was running just fine. Even taking in diversions!
: I'm truly not sure Imiakhtar is. BA is my least favourite choice when flying trans-atlantic, period. And fortunately or unfortunatley I need to be in
: EMA started to struggle around 20:00 , the airport 'RAN OUT' of de-icer, and a couple of flights got put on hold.
: My point was BA can not be held responsible for the problems (weather and baggage at T5) faced over the weekend.
: I just flew into AC YYZ from LHR. The story we faced.... 1205 departure pushed back over an hour. Our plane (777) was parked at remote stand. Only one
: What kills me particularly about LHR (and LGW) for that matter is that there can be a driving rain with thunderstorms and wind and every plane I've fl
: lucky you No one is going to force you to fly BA so I guess its a good thing you have that choice so you dont have to. Thats how the game works Regar
: Do you just not get it? You know that's a huge exaggeration. Yesterday they cut just over 50 flights out of about 350 from T5, about 30%, for problem
: So, now it's the snow. Another excuse for another sickness of "The English Patient". Thank God people in the UK have the concept of a stiff upper lip
: If LHR had three runways, provided they weren't maxed out as the present two are, there would have been significantly fewer cancellations yesterday,
: I was on BA flight that diverted to MAN. When we landed in MAN around 09:30 we were originally given a departure slot of 16:19Local. This came forward
: Sounds like Atlanta's Hartsfield..one of the WORST airport.
: I agree that adding another runway would definitely help. I am impressed by how much flying they get into and out of LHR with just two runways. But l