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What Is Wrong With VX?  
User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 11005 times:

It seems like ever since they started up, they have been adding new routes to current destinations? Are they forgetting about the people in the mid-US who would like to fly them? How about Florida? How about STL, and MCI? Do we not exist, or is it only East Coast and West Coast who get to hog all the action  Angry

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2672 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 10970 times:



Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Thread starter):
It seems like ever since they started up, they have been adding new routes to current destinations? Are they forgetting about the people in the mid-US who would like to fly them? How about Florida? How about STL, and MCI? Do we not exist, or is it only East Coast and West Coast who get to hog all the action  

Could it be that the real 'money' is (for the most part) on the coasts? Makes perfect sense to me.


User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5026 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10919 times:



Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Thread starter):
It seems like ever since they started up, they have been adding new routes to current destinations? Are they forgetting about the people in the mid-US who would like to fly them? How about Florida? How about STL, and MCI? Do we not exist, or is it only East Coast and West Coast who get to hog all the action Angry

I think they intend on adding ORD and a few other central states in the next year. Give it some time, I am sure they will have a need with so many aircraft coming on line.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10883 times:



Quoting F9Animal (Reply 2):
I am sure they will have a need with so many aircraft coming on line.

What, 16 frequencies from LAX-JFK!!  Angry

Sorry, I'm just a little sore at what AA did to STL, and would like to see more airlines in there.


User currently offlineLowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10877 times:



Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 1):
Could it be that the real 'money' is (for the most part) on the coasts? Makes perfect sense to me

Hmm, Chicago, Dallas, Denver, St. Louis, Kansas City, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Memphis, Indianapolis, Detroit...

Nope. No money in any of those.



Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlineDeltaAVL From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1893 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10876 times:



Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 1):

Could it be that the real 'money' is (for the most part) on the coasts? Makes perfect sense to me.

And could it be that VX doesn't care a bit about the folks in Kansas City because there are gold mines in Washington, Las Angeles, and San Francisco? Yep.

I wouldn't get my hopes up for STL and MCI. You've got a lot more cities to compete with who are much, much higher on the priority list.



"We break, We bend, With hand in hand, When hope is gone, Just hang on." -Guster
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32699 posts, RR: 72
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10851 times:



Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Thread starter):
Are they forgetting about the people in the mid-US who would like to fly them?

No, they'll be in Chicago soon. Though for the most part they won't have much of a presence in the middle U.S., at least not within the first three years, where it is unlikely they will be flying to the region outside of Chicago and Texas.



a.
User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6552 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10822 times:

Still hoping to see SFO-MSY in a couple of years. Think it would do quite well now that UA no longer offers nonstop service.

User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9191 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10731 times:

I'm hoping for service to PIT, maybe not in 2009, but what about 2010... It's on their list of cities to serve...


Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32699 posts, RR: 72
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10702 times:



Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 8):
It's on their list of cities to serve...

It's more like a list of city's whose newspapers it wants to write-up article on it.



a.
User currently offlineQantas787 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10617 times:

The way start ups and LCC's are travelling at the moment maybe there won't be any cities served by VX in '09-'10.

User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10438 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
No, they'll be in Chicago soon.

I'll be happy to fly them outta Chicago.. I'm only 6 hours from there, and visit chicagoland on a frequent basis


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5400 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10401 times:

Virgin's expansion has been v-e-r-y slow (part by design and partially due to various delays and other issues); after all, remember that it took them 6 months to get their 6th and final "original" station (SAN) operating, and their first "expansion" city (SEA) opened after 7 months. That's an average of 1 city per month but since Chicago (the next city?) hasn't even been announced yet, it looks like the "1 per month" average will slip. If they stick to their 3-month-in-advance announcement of new service (as they did with SAN and SEA), that means we are looking at a minimum of a July start-up for the next station.

The "talk" seems to be maybe 10 stations open by the end of the year and yes, other than Chicago, the most desirable cities for Virgin do seem to be coastal. There certainly are a lot of people living on the coasts of the United States and those seem to be the people (and their businesses and cities) that VX desires to connect first. I'm sure the large interior cities will see the Red-and-White in due time.

There was this other airline recently that tried a different strategy and based and hubbed themselves in, where was it, oh yeah, Columbus, Ohio. The folks at Virgin seem to be trying a different approach...

bb


User currently offlineB757capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10339 times:



Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Thread starter):
It seems like ever since they started up, they have been adding new routes to current destinations? Are they forgetting about the people in the mid-US who would like to fly them? How about Florida? How about STL, and MCI? Do we not exist, or is it only East Coast and West Coast who get to hog all the action Angry

I think the real problem is fares. If VX doesn't start charging more they will be just like Skybus, Out of business.



The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3010 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10241 times:

Looks like they have a pretty nice product. I hope they do well.

Only $100 extra for first class on a SFO-SEA one way...sign me up!!



Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10225 times:

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Thread starter):
It seems like ever since they started up, they have been adding new routes to current destinations? Are they forgetting about the people in the mid-US who would like to fly them? How about Florida? How about STL, and MCI? Do we not exist, or is it only East Coast and West Coast who get to hog all the action

Lets be realistic here, they are going where they can make the most money in the quickest amount of time. And if that does not sound like a plan I do not know what does.

[Edited 2008-04-06 20:10:44]


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9191 posts, RR: 18
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10137 times:



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 15):
Lets be realistic here, they are going where they can make the most money in the quickest amount of time. And if that does not sound like a plan I do not know what does.

I concur. Look at how WN started out. One plane, DAL-HOU-SAT (I think), and then they slowly expanded outward to the surrounding states and regions over the years. Begin with short-range high-density flights, build a profit, acquire more planes, repeat process...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineAgnusBymaster From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 652 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10049 times:

Anyone know what VX recent load factors have been like? It seems there is no way to know what is going on with VX, specifically how much money they are losing. Will RB bail out VX if they burn throught their seed money without turning a profit?

User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5400 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9868 times:



Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 16):
Look at how WN started out. One plane, DAL-HOU-SAT (I think), and then they slowly expanded outward to the surrounding states and regions over the years. Begin with short-range high-density flights, build a profit, acquire more planes, repeat process...

Well, except that VX is doing just the opposite: they started with almost all trans-cons (connecting SF/LA with NY/WAS, plus LA-SF service) before adding in the short-haul SF-LV, SF-SD and SF-SEA flights. And of course having an emphasis on long-hauls in this economic environment is very unfortunate and has added a real strain to the Virgin start-up. Perhaps if they had decided to start with shorter routes first, things might have gone a little bit easier for them.

But then, I can't imagine VX starting with anything other than connecting SF, LA and NY, and getting their unique image established right from the get-go.

bb


User currently offlineHZ747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1660 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9835 times:
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Sorry, it would not be Virgin if it started MCI service in the first three years.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 18):
But then, I can't imagine VX starting with anything other than connecting SF, LA and NY, and getting their unique image established right from the get-go.

Exactly! Your best bet would be to take WN to either cost, then VX to the opposite coast, and WN back home.



Keep on truckin'...
User currently offlineBAGoldEx From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 9689 times:

If there was money to be made flying to St. Louis, Kansas City and every other dead dust bowl city they would be doing it. They are flying to places like Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York and DC and soon Miami, Boston and Chicago because to put it simply, those are the places that matter. In the grand scheme of things, the cities you suggest flying to simply don't matter that much. Markets such as New York, Washington and Chicago and to a lesser degree Boston and Miami are comparative bottomless pits of frequent business and/or premium leisure travellers. Here are the numbers directly from faremeasure.com.

NY-SFO: 4,808
BOS-SFO: 1,691
ORD-SFO: 1,595
IAD-SFO: 1,413
PHL-SFO:1,036
MIA+FLL+PBI-SFO: 1,024
-MIA: 644
-FLL: 265
-PBI: 115

STL-SFO: 358
MCI-SFO: 268
MSY-SFO: 123


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32699 posts, RR: 72
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 9658 times:



Quoting BAGoldEx (Reply 20):
NY-SFO: 4,808
BOS-SFO: 1,691
ORD-SFO: 1,595
IAD-SFO: 1,413
PHL-SFO:1,036
MIA+FLL+PBI-SFO: 1,024
-MIA: 644
-FLL: 265
-PBI: 115

Thanks to Southwest and JetBlue at Oakland, the numbers are much larger than that in every case. FLL-OAK, for example, is a bigger local market than FLL-SFO.



a.
User currently offlineJetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2783 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 9081 times:
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HEAD MODERATOR



Quoting Lowrider (Reply 4):
Hmm, Chicago, Dallas, Denver, St. Louis, Kansas City, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Memphis, Indianapolis, Detroit...

Nope. No money in any of those.

I'm going to apologize ahead of time to PanAM330 but BURN!
Expansion may move a little quicker now. Didn't they lease 2 planes to Skybus. I'm sure now they will try and move quick and get those babies into service for themselves.
Blue



You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13548 posts, RR: 62
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8771 times:
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Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 3):
Sorry, I'm just a little sore at what AA did to STL, and would like to see more airlines in there.

Huh? What AA "did" to STL?

You mean keep thousands of workers employed who would otherwise have had to find another line of work?

Yeah, quite the number they "did" on STL...  Wink

VX is sticking with large population centers with huge O&D numbers - nothing inherently wrong with that, and odds are they'll eventually expand into the STL and other midwest cities someday.

If they survive long enough to do so, that is. IMHO, they're shutting down operations within 10 months if fuel prices remain at or above $100.00/bbl.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineTUIflyer From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8726 times:



Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Thread starter):

VX's business plan is low cost long-haul travel between the East and West coasts, it states this on their website.

They have a few problems to sort out first, in terms of finances - then they may start looking at the mid-cities.

TUIflyer



Don't just travel, travel with a smile. . .
25 EXAAUADL : they are probably trying to fly in more high profile markerts first. B6 did the same
26 Post contains links Miller22 : VX isn't doing well, but from these revenue maps, you can see how they chose their cities. The big red circles mean lots of passengers at a high price
27 MaverickM11 : I'm hoping for Nacogdoches!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111!!!!!!!!! Would be a great market!
28 InTheSky74 : I wonder what VX is going to do with the extra aircraft that are now being returned to them from SkyBus.... They need to start flying them somewhere s
29 C8j2h : I would assume that Sir Richard Branson has deep pockets and the state of affairs for Virgin is still better for them than it was for Skybus with the
30 Av8tor : Richard's deep pockets mean nothing. Trust me, the other airlines and the government are closely watching where VA is getting their money. There are s
31 Post contains images PanAm330 : Oh, yeah - a huge burn   . From a revenue standpoint, that most of the more 'important' places are on or near the coasts. Sure, there are places li
32 Ikramerica : Which is exactly why the USA has foreign ownership restrictions. We don't want a deep pocket foreign entity coming in and disrupting/destroying our d
33 Steeler83 : What about routes that are between 500 and 1000 and in the red? I suppose at least one or two frequencies would work here. (LAX-CLE, PIT, CLT, MIA, e
34 Incitatus : There are no gold mines in flying domestic routes in the USA. None.
35 B757capt : See I don't buy that, I could be wrong but here goes. My impression is that if a foreign investor puts money into a US company a US investor must mat
36 MaverickM11 : Particularly with high costs and LCC fares. Avondale Partners is guessing that VX may be the next carrier to fail. I have to agree at the rate they'r
37 MAH4546 : Here's three: Miami-St. Croix, Honolulu-Pago Pago, and Seattle-Anchorage. There are dozens and dozens more.
38 Ikramerica : St. Croix isn't domestic in the sense we generally use it, nor is Pago Pago. And if these markets were flooded with seats, there would be no money in
39 SANFan : Considering that WN still flies SAN-BWI (2x daily) -- i.e., one fifth of their trans-cons still remain and they recently added LAS-JAX which is certa
40 Incitatus : I commented in the context of airports - large ones - not routes. Noticing you picked two routes going out of the lower-48 states into other areas an
41 Beertrucker : OK you all say they are not doing ok. But at the same point If you are going to say they are not doing good show proof. I am not saying they are or ar
42 Anonms : I don't think VX quite has the yields they want. The only time I've flown with them and they had a full cabin was during the "college break flight rus
43 Kanebear : Rephrase that to 'what Carl Icahn and market conditions did to TW' and you might have a point. If not for AA, you'd have nothing at STL save the majo
44 Steeler83 : I simply did not realize that WN still had a few transcons out there. I probably should have done my homework on that. My bad for that. I do know tha
45 FlyingClrs727 : Maybe when JetBlue buys up the Virgin America fleet, they'll use the extra capacity to add flights to cities in the middle of the US?
46 Jeffrey1970 : I know I sound stupid but what airline is VX? A.net is saying that it is Aces out of Columbia
47 C8j2h : Virgin America
48 Post contains images ShannoninAMA : Virgin America. Lets hope they can stack up against UA,B6,WN and co. at OAK and SFO. I can see them adding ORD/DFW and a few other "Bullet points" in
49 Post contains links EA CO AS : Okay, here you go, VX has petitioned the DOT to keep their Form 41 information confidential because it would allow competitors (whose info VX enjoys
50 Jetblueguy22 : I never said you were wrong. Show me where I said that. And yes they do have other cities that they would prefer first. I know B6 didn't go that far
51 Beertrucker : Ok that is a fair point. Do I want to see VX go belly up? No I don't. We lost three airlines within a weeks time. I would like to see one of the star
52 Steeler83 : Throw in PIT as well. I'd be willing to bet $50 that they don't come to PIT until sometime after 2015, if ever...
53 Mauiman31 : Even though VX listed MCI initially as a possible expansion city, I agree it would most likely be low on the list now, given what's happening in the c
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