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2 Planes Collided 15 Minutes Ago, This Is No Joke.  
User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2011 times:

I just heard from Fox News that 2 planes collided at exactly 4pm PST off long beach, bodies have been found size of planes or airline have not been determined yet. Water in area is 55-80 feet deep. More reports will come as soon as possible.

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineQantasA330 From Iraq, joined Dec 2000, 306 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1731 times:

LOT767-300ER - Thanks for the info. - Please keep us updated...

:::QantasA330:::


User currently offlineKLM747 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2001, 669 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1683 times:

Hmmm, well keep the reports coming.  Wink/being sarcastic

KLM747 Big grin


User currently offlineIainhol From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1660 times:

Unfortunately I am not surprised. I have done a lot of flying of Long Beach down to Dana Point, and it is very conjested. The FAA should make it a warning area!!
Iain


User currently offlineAirCanadaMan From Canada, joined Feb 2000, 465 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1634 times:


At this time of day, does anyone know what aircraft(s) is it more likley to be?

Small commuters, large heavys, private planes?


Keep us posted.



User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1611 times:

I can't find anything yet on cnn.com, foxnews.com as of 4:30PM PST.

LOT: Did the report sound like two private planes crashed or were these passenger jets??

Aaron G.


User currently offlineIainhol From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1596 times:

I just read on KCAL.com they where 2 small planes!
Iain


User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1571 times:

ACMan: In Southern California and especially in LA, it could have been anything.

Aaron G.


User currently offlineJaseWGTN From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 823 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1542 times:

BREAKING NEWS: Mid-Air Collision Off Long Beach Reported
The Coast Guard says it has a report of two small planes colliding over Long Beach Harbor. Eyewitnesses reportedly saw the collision take place. News reports say one body has been recovered and that oil slicks have been spotted. Several rescue craft are on the scene but there are no reports of survivors.


User currently offlineIainhol From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1504 times:

Taken From KCAL.COM
Eyewitnesses saw two small planes collide just outside the entrance to the Long Beach breakwater, according to Rick Pillsbury of the Long Beach Fire Department.

The witnesses reported that one of the planes descended straight into the water following the collision and the other stayed aloft only briefly, Pillsbury said.

Pillsbury said that emergency crews are focusing on two areas where the two planes are presumed to have hit the water, separated by hundreds of yards.

News reports say one body has been recovered and that oil slicks have been spotted. Several rescue craft are on the scene but there are no reports of survivors.

Please if anyone has any info where they where from please inform me! email@Iainholmes.com

Iain


User currently offlineCanada Mike From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 149 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1478 times:

KNBC.com reported that there may be a second person dead. It didn't sound like a major airline crash, thank God.

Condolences.  Sad

Canada Mike
ICQ 108008798


User currently offlineIainhol From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1436 times:

I doubt anyone will survive, I am pretty sure it is general aviation. Flights schools from SNA, LGB and FUL go to that practice area, and I can tell you from experience it is VERY busy with people stalling and steep at 2000-4000 feet, and above that you have airliners going into SNA and LAX. Also I have flown there many times and would have to wait to to get in contact with approach as it so busy.
Iain


User currently offlineIainhol From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1360 times:

I just got off the phone ti my friend, and I am releaved to inform you guys, that it does not look like it was any of my friends.
Iain


User currently offlineQantasA3XX From Singapore, joined Dec 2000, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1352 times:

What was the traffic controller doing ???

I think this is due to human error ..

Am i right ?

QantasA380


User currently offlineMaxPowers From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 475 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1284 times:

THe ATC was probaly not paying attention. Of course it's human error on the atc's, and the 2 pilots faults. THANK GOD that it wasn't a crammed 747-400 from Austraila to LAX and one goting from LAX TO Sydney. That would not be good.
"DOH"
Max Powers


User currently offlineMit From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 166 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1278 times:

Qantas A3XX,

The planes were most likely flying VFR with no traffic separation provided by ATC. Sometimes pilots are not very good at this. The accident was caused, almost beyond doubt, by pilot error.


User currently offlineMit From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 166 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1267 times:

MaxPowers,

Careful speaking about that which you do not understand very well. Since the floor of Bravo airspace in Long Beach harbor is 7000 feet, these planes were most likely VFR. Aircraft flying VFR are not the responsibility of ATC. The duty to see and avoid traffic falls solely and completely to the pilot in command.

If you're interested in learning more about flying, get one of the excellent Jeppesen private pilot manuals and read up!  Smile


User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3466 posts, RR: 47
Reply 17, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1272 times:

>What was the traffic controller doing ???

Controlling the IFR traffic.

Slightly hazy day with way more than the usual number of private pilots (always very high when sun is out) flying around due to poor weather the past week. Lots of student flying for the same reason.

>I think this is due to human error ..

VFR is "see and be seen." Somebody wasn't paying proper attention outside their airplane(s).  Crying



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineRedngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 45
Reply 18, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1263 times:

Report can now be seen at ABCNews.com:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/planes_collide010215.html

redngold



Up, up and away!
User currently offlineRaddog2 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1215 times:

I've only been up in GA aircraft a few times (twice in the left seat) but it seems to me that with more and more small aircraft flying around in congested airspace like SoCal, VFR flying with no controlled separation is just too dangerous. You never know where another plane might be -- and just scanning the visual field isn't enough to avoid midair collisions. This is particularly true for student pilots who are busy doing other things. "See and be seen" might be good enough if you're flying around in Wyoming or something, but I honestly think it's no longer good enough for flying around Long Beach, or San Francisco, or similar congested spaces. Maybe they should start designing TCAS for small planes. But in the meantime I'm praying for the families of the victims, and hopefully they will find survivors.

User currently offlineRed Panda From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2000, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1189 times:

What was fox news report say about the collision? it makes ppl think that there were an major civil aviation disaster. Maybe that's one of the technique that FOX tried to get ppl's attention to their news. You know, it turns out they are only two light a/c.

User currently offlineMit From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 166 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1069 times:

Raddog2,

Come on, you're a medical student too. You should know better than that.

Try this: "I've only flown economy a few times (twice on long haul) but it seems to me that with more and more people flying long distances, economy class is just too dangerous. You never know when DVT might develop -- and just moving around the cabin isn't always enough. This is particularly true for elderly people who have trouble ambulating. "Move your legs" might be good enough if you're flying LAX-SFO or something, but I honestly think it's no longer good enough for flying LAX-SYD, or similar long trips. Maybe they should start dispensing coumadin for all passengers."

You may "honestly beleive" your opinion, but based on what? You're not a pilot, for one. For another, mid-air collisions between GA airplanes represent a vanishingly small portion of GA risk. From 1991-1999, there were 3245 fatal GA accidents of which 78 were midair collisions. That's 2.5% of GA accidents, or about one per month.

As for additional ATC control or TCAS helping, from where will that money come? Even if you think it's worth spending, the $$ available is finite and will come out another budget, flight school or ATC, that could be spent more effectively to reduce risk. Furthermore,
half of midairs are in traffic patterns, most of which are pretty well controlled already in Southern California, and are so congested that TCAS would be of little use.

I agree with you that these collisions are tragic, and that ways to avoid them should be sought. But please don't wildly suggest expensive, impractical and onerous solutions to a problem you don't really understand.

Stats from AOPA Nall report 2000


User currently offlineIainhol From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1044 times:

About ATC, most people use that area for practicing manuvers stalls, steep turns, ect. There is no requirement to speak to ATC, and most people do not. What I would like to see there is a warning area, so pilots who are unfamiliar know that there is a lot of uncontrolled VFR traffic around!
Iain


User currently offlineRaddog2 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 987 times:

Mit,

No, like I said, I'm not a pilot. Yet, anyway. But that doesn't automatically make whatever I say wrong. I'm not a doctor yet either. Would I be wrong to say that smoking increases risk of lung cancer? Midairs in GA craft may be rare, but how many of them are clustered in congested areas? I said that I didn't think VFR was much of a problem in places like Wyoming, and maybe it isn't in Charlottesville. But when you go to places like major metropolitan areas in California, you'll see planes everywhere on a sunny day. And traffic avoidance technology need not be expensive, and could be limited to high traffic areas. Would you be SO averse to such technology that you wouldn't even consider a cost benefit analysis? If the costs outweigh the benefits, fine, leave the system as is. But what if the benefits outweigh the costs?

And if I were you, I wouldn't be so "cavalier" about DVT. While no, I would not suggest prescribing coumadin for everyone, I think it's pretty clear that long distance travel is an aggravating factor for those individuals who are already at risk for DVT and PE. Should we ignore it because it's so rare?

Best wishes in school,

raddog2


User currently offlineIainhol From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (13 years 5 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 936 times:

Regarding my previous posts I meant a 'Alert Area' not a 'Warning Area' I thought about it a bit more during a lecture this afternoon came home a pulled out the books to confirm

Both aircrafts where from Long Beach Flying Club, which recently had problems with the FAA regarding maintenance records, however about 6 months ago they got everything sorted out. They where both training flights, and I highly doubt that where talking to Socal Approach. It was witnessed by a Helicopter pilot in the area.

Long Beach controllers from my experience are not vey good. I was climbing out of there once, and they called traffic at 6 o'clock I read back 'Looking for traffic' then he came back with 'Squawk VFR frequency changes aprroved' I was very shocked at such a thing, and luckily my instructor had the traffic in site. All the time I went into LGB they never seemed very plesant so I went there very rarely!

Iain


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