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Baltimore (BWI) Struggles To Remain International  
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5048 times:

ATA bankruptcy halts plan for international hub at BWI


The Maryland Gazette

The bankruptcy of air carrier ATA has halted plans for a partnership with Southwest Airlines that would have put Southwest's international hub at BWI Thurgood Marshall Airport.

Under the arrangement, ATA would have offered inexpensive flights to Europe from BWI.

The Indianapolis-based airline filed Wednesday for Chapter 11 protection in Indiana U.S. Bankruptcy Court. The company ceased operations Thursday.

The move is the latest blow to the international profile at BWI. Mexicana Airlines and North American Airlines suspended flights at BWI last May. Icelandair cut its Baltimore operations in December, and Air Greenland announced plans this year to pull out.

entire story
http://www.airportbusiness.com/onlin...article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=18761

52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9172 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4720 times:

Maybe they can find solace with the fact that they have better chances at attracting more international service than some other markets out there [cough]PIT[cough]. Maybe WN can use their own metal to launch international service to MBJ, SJU, NAS, etc... I wonder if they'll apply for ETOPS certification for some aircraft in order to do routes like BWI-CUN/AUA/BDA, etc. Do they need ETOPS for the other routes, too tho, coming from BWI?

If that's the case, oh fudge...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3678 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4681 times:



Quoting Juventus (Thread starter):
The move is the latest blow to the international profile at BWI.

Well, Canada will always be there.


User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3372 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4561 times:

Well being situated in an area between IAD and PHL one can either find a nonstop flt to their international destination or easily connect through a big hub from BWI.

User currently offlineVC10DC10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1035 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4527 times:

*cough* Military charters? *cough*

User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4367 times:

There's this Latinamerican airlne currently flying to IAD whose Washington, D.C. flight hasn't been that expected awesome success. Maybe is because the arrival and departure times, maybe it's because the competition from TA in IAD.
I really think that BWI wouldn't loose anything trying to woo that airline to move to BWI (which it's still another Washington D.C. airport) with some attractive perks. And by the way Baltimore John Hopkins Hospital has a partner hospital at that airline hub.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineVC10DC10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1035 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4329 times:

They haven't lost BA to Heathrow yet, have they? Arguably the most important international route flown from Baltimore, IMHO.

Too bad about Air Greenland and Icelandair leaving like that... how in the world are Baltimoreans going to make it to the all-important Arctic region???  Silly

More to the point, why did they fly there in the first place?


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7558 posts, RR: 43
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4317 times:

I recall there were several posts here on a.net in connection with MX resuming BWI service once they received additional A319s. Does anyone know if BWI will be restarted by MX at some point? I recall a friend from D.C. flew once MEX-BWI and then drove from BWI to her apartment in D.C. She said BWI is not convenient for D.C. inhabitants. I wonder why MX or AM does not start MEX-IAD... despite the UA competition, this would probably work.


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3007 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4315 times:

That's too bad, BWI is a nice airport. Nice observation deck with chairs and a good view of the field.

I flew AUS-BWI on WN and BWI-LHR on BA in May of 2005. Easy transfer from baggage claim, just walk to the left until you get to BA's check-in.



Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineVC10DC10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1035 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4295 times:



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 7):
She said BWI is not convenient for D.C. inhabitants.

She is correct. Nevertheless, thousands of people do it every day -- though personally I find it a tremendous waste of time, energy, good humor, and fossil fuels. (I'm a DC resident myself.)


User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4058 times:



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 7):
She said BWI is not convenient for D.C. inhabitants. I wonder why MX or AM does not start MEX-IAD... despite the UA competition, this would probably work.

Hi Eddie, I think the next logical move for AM should be IAD, I wish they would've launched IAD instead of DTW. I'm hoping MX returns to BWI in the not too distant future.

Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 6):
Too bad about Air Greenland and Icelandair leaving like that... how in the world are Baltimoreans going to make it to the all-important Arctic region???

More to the point, why did they fly there in the first place?


I've always wondered that myself, why did they choose BWI instead of IAD????

Anyway BWI is a nice airport, hope they find some int'l carriers.


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4012 times:



Quoting Brons2 (Reply 8):
That's too bad, BWI is a nice airport. Nice observation deck with chairs and a good view of the field.

It's a nice airport, yes. If you live in Baltimore or the Maryland DC suburbs. Otherwise it's not ever going to be able to compete with Dulles to the south and Philly to the north for international flights.

And domestically, they've lost some of their edge, price-wise. Now that SWA is at Dulles, there is virtually no reason for me to even look at BWI.


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4973 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3917 times:

We may never know how far along the WN/TZ plans for BWI Int'l service had progressed. If WN is still planning on offering Int'l flights either on their own metal or by partnership....BWI will undoubtedly loom large in the planning.


Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineIaddca From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 286 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3911 times:

demographics up there just don't support much int'l service, the BA flight is already subsidized by the state

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3896 times:



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 7):
She said BWI is not convenient for D.C. inhabitants.



Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 9):
She is correct.

IDK if I agree 100%.

If you live anywhere but upper Northwest, Georgetown, parts of downtown, BWI is pretty convenient.

If you don't have a car, BWI can be just as convenient as Dulles depending on your accessibility to the metro. If you live on or near the red line, a quick trip to Union Station and a MARC train that runs all day in both directions (up until 9 or 10 at night) gets you right there.

NS


User currently offlineCitrusCritter From Pitcairn Islands, joined May 2007, 1089 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3781 times:



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 7):
She said BWI is not convenient for D.C. inhabitants.



Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 9):
She is correct. Nevertheless, thousands of people do it every day -- though personally I find it a tremendous waste of time, energy, good humor, and fossil fuels. (I'm a DC resident myself.)

How is hopping Amtrak or MARC at Union Station not convenient for DC residents? The Red Line runs through Union Station and the taxis are not plentiful. Driving to BWI is pretty much the same as driving to IAD unless you live in Virginia or a western Maryland suburb. But for DC itself, I do not see the difference in driving, and the MARC connection weighs heavily in BWI's favor.

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 14):
IDK if I agree 100%.

If you live anywhere but upper Northwest, Georgetown, parts of downtown, BWI is pretty convenient.

If you don't have a car, BWI can be just as convenient as Dulles depending on your accessibility to the metro. If you live on or near the red line, a quick trip to Union Station and a MARC train that runs all day in both directions (up until 9 or 10 at night) gets you right there.

 checkmark   checkmark  I think a lot of DCers have a disdain for BWI simply because it is Baltimore's airport. I must admit, I actually prefer IAD, all things being equal. But the convenience of BWI makes it preferable to IAD most of the time.



TLH
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3727 times:



Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 1):
I wonder if they'll apply for ETOPS certification for some aircraft in order to do routes like BWI-CUN/AUA/BDA

None of those routes require ETOPS.


User currently offlineIaddca From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 286 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3691 times:

not just a question of convenience, but flight selection, BSPR is great for cheap flights to Columbus or Little Rock, but if you need a direct flight to London, LA, or Paris, IAD's the better airport, even if you're coming from MD

User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9172 posts, RR: 18
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3677 times:



Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 16):
None of those routes require ETOPS.

Oh. I read in another thread, I think it was WN's ATA problem, and someone in there posted that the routes did require that.

Altho, US operated PIT-CUN and SJU not that long ago, and they were with an A319. I don't think their A319s have ETOPS. In fact, I know they don't. So, my bad...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6995 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3671 times:

They have USA3000 to several international destinations so they are hardly losing their status as a gateway, but there have been a few bumps in the road. One wonders why they have been a haven for oddball int'l carriers in the past. You would think those carriers would be at JFK or even EWR. BWI is a funny place to be flying to Greenland from. The fact WN doesn't interline doesn't really help much.

User currently offlineBWI757 From Israel, joined Dec 2004, 429 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3640 times:



Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 5):
I really think that BWI wouldn't loose anything trying to woo that airline to move to BWI (which it's still another Washington D.C. airport) with some attractive perks. And by the way Baltimore John Hopkins Hospital has a partner hospital at that airline hub.

What are you referring to?

BWI757



I live in the US but my heart is in Jerusalem!
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5347 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3603 times:



Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 15):
I think a lot of DCers have a disdain for BWI simply because it is Baltimore's airport.

Unless money is involved.  Smile In the late 90's/early 00's, WN at BWI was pulling lots of passengers out of both DCA and IAD. Now that those airports have fares that are more competitive with BWI, the diversion is much less.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3536 times:



Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 21):
In the late 90's/early 00's, WN at BWI was pulling lots of passengers out of both DCA and IAD. Now that those airports have fares that are more competitive with BWI, the diversion is much less.

There was a time when it was worth my while to take the 75 minute drive up to BWI because of the lower fares. Those days are over, because IAD has fares that are just as low as BWI's.


User currently onlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4487 posts, RR: 33
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days ago) and read 3398 times:

Ah, yes...the always controverted question of the convenience of BWI vs. IAD for D.C.-area residents. Do we ever have a thread about DC-Baltimore corridor aviation without it?

Depends upon where you live. Given our traffic, the poor layout of roads, the insufficient number of expressways, and differing distances to public transportation, the relative convenience of either airport is very much a function of where you live. For me in Northeast DC, BWI is more convenient, hands-down. I'm with Citrus Critter, though, that you'll also find some disdain for BWI among some DC-area residents.

If Southwest determines that it's financially viable to partner with someone to fly to Europe out of BWI, they'll find someone to do it, ATA or no ATA. Might be the coup de grace for BA at BWI, though.

Jim

(edited for spelling)

[Edited 2008-04-09 10:17:23]

User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3274 times:



Quoting BWI757 (Reply 20):
What are you referring to?

I'm talking about BWI approaching CM to see if CM is save some money flying into BWI instead of IAD.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
25 MAH4546 : The IAD flight has struggled enough. BWI would be a bigger disaster.
26 Cubsrule : They would require a change in WN's AOC, however.
27 2travel2know : If something happens between CO and UA, UA most likely could start an IAD-PTY and CM will be forced to move its Washington flight to BWI, as long as
28 DCA-ROCguy : I thought these figures were noteworthy: The bankruptcy of ATA came the same week that BWI announced it set an all-time February record for passenger
29 777fan : IMO, MD state officials are so incompetant in all aspects of business and finance. They couldn't woo a starving person to a buffet but yet rush to su
30 BOStonsox : Does BWI have any service to BDA? I'm sure FL could expand there as well as the Carribean. The same goes for WN, but they seem to want to stay domesti
31 777fan : WN already runs the route several times a day. Flights arriving in: Baltimore, MD (BWI-Balt./Wash. International Airport) 58° F Clear Departure City
32 BOStonsox : No, BDA, as in Bermuda. I knew they had flights to BDL, but that's not international.
33 777fan : Ah, my bad. No, I don't believe anyone flies to BDA from BWI regularly. USA3000 might have the occasional vacation charter. US flies there regularly f
34 ConcordeBoy : ...if you ever want to feel better about yourself, just remember-- at least you're not Louisiana.
35 777fan : I suppose, although most of Louisiana's recent ills were brought on by Mother Nature. FWIW, MD's current adminstration made history last year when th
36 BOStonsox : I wonder why Air Greenland and North American flew out of BWI to begin with. JFK would've been better for Air Greenland and IAD would've been better f
37 DCA-ROCguy : demographics up there just don't support much int'l service, the BA flight is already subsidized by the state. Is this still true? I remember that you
38 Tockeyhockey : just for the record, for those of you who have fallen for the marketing of BWI as a washington airport... it is not a washington airport. if you live
39 Gigneil : That's BS sir. If you live in any of the MD suburbs except Potomac or possibly Bethesda, you go to BWI. You certainly don't go from Annapolis or Bowi
40 FlyDeltaJets87 : Yes, but IAD is well west of the Distrcit while PHL is south of dowtown PHL, so in terms of which city BWI is closer too, BWI is significantly closer
41 JM017 : Uh, I don't think so. It can serve the DC suburbs. I personally find BWI convenient to get to. I am the same distance from BWI and IAD and with the e
42 CitrusCritter : Yeah, whatever. I lived on Capitol Hill and used BWI as my alternative to DCA on most occasions. MARC/Amtrak provide a quick, cheap trip to BWI inste
43 ConcordeBoy : Not by a lonnnnnnnnnnggggggggg shot. This place was a corrupt cesspool long before such was thrust into the worldwide spotlight-- and many of you eit
44 JM017 : Yup, lots of people get off the MARC trains at BWI. Most are not commuters. Give me MARC and the free shuttle over the setup at Dulles any day.
45 DCA-ROCguy : And judging by the number of folks that used to get off the train with me at BWI, they too found BWI convenient for use from DC. I never went out to I
46 AA777 : Ugh- tell me about it. I have a friend who has no car...and who just LOVES flying with Southwest.... to places they dont serve from IAD. I am generou
47 Pellegrine : Just to throw my DC resident opinion into the mix... I think if you live in DC proper BWI is easier and faster to get to than IAD. Going to BWI you ca
48 Halls120 : MARC works to BWI because BWI is adjacent to an existing rail line. Dulles isn't, and no one in their right mind is going to build a heavy rail line
49 Humberside : USA 3000 do BWI-BDA 3xWeek in the summer as a scheduled service
50 Iaddca : US had one, but moved it to DCA. Demographics for expensive int'l destinations are much better in DC than around Baltimore, and BDA is a pricey trip.
51 Iaddca : yup, especially with the loss of Aer Lingus to IAD and Icelandair, state doesn't want to get shut of Europe completely Balt Sun did a story in Februa
52 Iaddca : The payout from MD to BA was $3.4 million in 2006, which caused controversy because the MD Aviation Authority did not initially notify the legislature
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