Aussie747 From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1161 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12587 times:
At seems as if Qantas group are getting sick and tired of the 787 delays for its JQ international expansion . They will be leasing more A330's to launch its expansion. No word on type and when. However I assume they would be A332's given the longer range. Could these aircardft do SIN-FCO or ATH however?
SOURCE: TRAVEL DAILY 10/4/08
Jetstar to operate more A330s
Qantas has just announced that it will lease up to six A330 aircraft for Jetstar's international operations.
The announcement follows a revelation overnight by Boeing that its 787 program has been delayed for another six months.
QF ceo Geoff Dixon said the carrier iwas "very disappointed that Boeing has again delayed the delivery schedule" for QF's 65 787s - the first 15 of which were earmarked for JQ's international services.
He said Qantas now expected to receive its first B787-8 15 months after its original delivery date.
"The B787-9 aircraft, which has also been ordered by the Qantas Group, will also be delayed by between 15 and 23 months," he said.
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21029 posts, RR: 60 Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12566 times:
If only he had bought the 777s when he had the chance 5 years ago. And 3 years ago. And last year...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
KL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1573 posts, RR: 2 Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12477 times:
Well Maybe Airbus will be willing to offer early slots (though I have no clue where this would come from, assuming its possible) for A350's to QF and JQ for A330's by cancelling the B787's.
This I presume would be a mega blow for Boeing.
When will QF/JQ get their first B787?
Hypothetically how much longer would QF/JQ need to wait for the A350 "assuming" there will be no more delays for the B787 and no delays for the launch of the A350?
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26723 posts, RR: 83 Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12412 times:
Quoting KL808 (Reply 2): Well Maybe Airbus will be willing to offer early slots (though I have no clue where this would come from, assuming its possible) for A350's to QF and JQ for A330's by cancelling the B787's.
QF and JQ will get their 787-8s and 787-9s years before they could get A350-800s, even with the delays. And the A350-800 would be a not-insignificant size jump from the A330-200/787-8 for JQ and would mean a not-insignificant cargo payload hit for QF vis-a-vis the 787-9 due to less hold space.
Tullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1147 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12208 times:
This sounds like QF are going to be after straight cash compensation from Boeing rather than discounts on future orders.
QF are unlikely to cancel any of their 787 orders though you would have to think that the A350 is looking more attractive in the longer term given the 787-10 is now looking like it won't be available for quite a long time. Boeing will obviously fight to keep QF away from the A350 so either way QF are probably in the "box-seat."
ANstar From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 4848 posts, RR: 6 Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12174 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1): If only he had bought the 777s when he had the chance 5 years ago. And 3 years ago
They ordered A330's which were more suited to their Asian ops. They will have a fleet of something like 30 A330's with this new deal (JQ/QF)
Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 3): But for JQ to get hold of A332's with short notice sounds like a bit of wishful thinking.
Who said it was short notice? From the sound of the press release from Geoff Dixon, they have been expoecting further delays and have already got A330 lease deals in place - all subject to baord approval (which would have just been waiting for confirmation on the delay)
I reckon we will see these 332's in the JQ fleet within 12 months
Zeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 7726 posts, RR: 73 Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12121 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 4): QF and JQ will get their 787-8s and 787-9s years before they could get A350-800s, even with the delays.
I disagree, with their large order, it would be safe to assume that Boeing could not deliver all their frames by the time the A358 was available. Some unconfirmed rumors on pprune they are looking at A380s as well.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
Sydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2377 posts, RR: 18 Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12119 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1): If only he had bought the 777s when he had the chance 5 years ago. And 3 years ago. And last year...
All they need them for presently is India and Honolulu. Everything else intra-Asia can be covered easily with an A330.
Quoting KL808 (Reply 2): Well Maybe Airbus will be willing to offer early slots (though I have no clue where this would come from, assuming its possible) for A350's to QF and JQ for A330's by cancelling the B787's.
Not going to happen. I can see an A350 order to stand alongside the 787 but not in place of it.
Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 3): But for JQ to get hold of A332's with short notice sounds like a bit of wishful thinking.
Quoting ANstar (Reply 6): I reckon we will see these 332's in the JQ fleet within 12 months
I agree with ANstar. I'm sure Airbus and QF have already arranged for options/rolling options for the A330's to cover this from when the first delay was announced. So now it's just a matter of formalising things and I'd say in the next 12 months you'll see more A330's appearing in JQ colours.
why not KUL-FCO/ATH? The leisure market is much bigger from KUL than SIN. And there's no airline flying that route currently. Even SQ don't fly daily to FCO and ATH. Probably yield is not there to justify daily operations.
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21029 posts, RR: 60 Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11962 times:
Quoting Tullamarine (Reply 5): This sounds like QF are going to be after straight cash compensation from Boeing rather than discounts on future orders
Maybe free 738s...
And considering Boeing isn't going to launch the 787-10 any time soon and it won't be available before 2014, I think Airbus is now in the driver's seat on selling the A350-1000 to QF. Same timeframe, larger size (something Dixon wants).
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26723 posts, RR: 83 Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11953 times:
Quoting Zeke (Reply 7): I disagree, with their large order, it would be safe to assume that Boeing could not deliver all their frames by the time the A358 was available.
Oh certainly they couldn't get all their 787's before they could get any A350s, however they will get a good number of their 787-8s and 787-9s before they could start to get A350-800s, so I don't see QF or JQ choosing that model. I do expect QF to take the A350-1000, but that is the only model I see them ordering from the A350 family.
Aussie747 From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1161 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11908 times:
Quoting CHANGYOU (Reply 10):
Quoting Aussie747 (Thread starter):
SIN-FCO or ATH
why not KUL-FCO/ATH? The leisure market is much bigger from KUL than SIN. And there's no airline flying that route currently. Even SQ don't fly daily to FCO and ATH. Probably yield is not there to justify daily operations.
True, JQ has yet to decide where it will base this long haul expansion through. BKK/SIN/KUL have been suggested even Vietnam. However with recent delays, who knows what effect this will have on the European Expansion. I assume there will be no payload restrictions on the A332 given that the A332 already operated AKL-LAX-AKL.
6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3267 posts, RR: 22 Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11771 times:
Quoting CHANGYOU (Reply 10): why not KUL-FCO/ATH? The leisure market is much bigger from KUL than SIN. And there's no airline flying that route currently. Even SQ don't fly daily to FCO and ATH. Probably yield is not there to justify daily operations.
I think it would have to be between those 3 points... Here are my views on pros and cons
KUL.
+ big incentives from airport and government
+ currently to links to ATH
- no 3K regional feed
- Malaysia less popular for European and Australian travellers than the other two
- Air Asia X competition
SIN
- QF overlap
- business destination?
+ 3K provides onward feed across its network
+ established brand in the market
+ major hubs with excellent links across asia
+ supplements QF flying from other Australian destinations
BKK
+ popular leisure destination suited to JQ from europe and australia
- ATH and FCO competition with TG
+ limited QF presense. won't cannibalise QF
+ already serves BKK and HKT. natural extension
- high costs and delays
+ good balance of point to point and through traffic due to seasonality of markets?
The Kingfisher documents posted recently puts the idea of free frames to bed. I never thought Airbus was doing it, and I do not expect Boeing to do it. The Kingfisher document shows that a settlement was reached, and instead of paying Kingfisher the cash, that amount was taken in lieu of predelivery payments up to the value of the settlement.
Quoting Stitch (Reply 12): I do expect QF to take the A350-1000, but that is the only model I see them ordering from the A350 family.
Time will tell, I think it will be decided by which entity ends up with the A330 fleet after the 787 does start arriving.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
Zkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4739 posts, RR: 10 Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11588 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1): If only he had bought the 777s when he had the chance 5 years ago. And 3 years ago. And last year...
Not sure if it has been posted anywhere on A.net... but there are strong rumours that Geoff Dixon will step down as CEO at the end of this year and that QF are looking externally for a new CEO for next year.
QFYMML From Australia, joined Jun 2007, 169 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 11369 times:
Quoting Zeke (Reply 15): Time will tell, I think it will be decided by which entity ends up with the A330 fleet after the 787 does start arriving.
I'd assume the leased frames mentioned in this thread would go back to the lessors?
AFAIK the A330's already in the fleet will go to QF - I can see QF ordering the A350-1000 for its future needs.
I would have thought they would also work for (capacity) expansion by JQ by the time they're available/delivered.
Astuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9142 posts, RR: 96 Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 11322 times:
Quoting Zeke (Reply 9): The A330-200 is more than capable for India, it is shorter than the AKL-LAX run they do now.
Oh, for those GEnx's. If only....
Quoting Stitch (Reply 12): I do expect QF to take the A350-1000, but that is the only model I see them ordering from the A350 family.
Wonder if they'll look at the A350-900, which, on current plans, is going to EIS completely unopposed by any comparable modern Boeing product....
(recognising that as far as I know, no mention has been made by QF of aircraft this size.)
Sydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2377 posts, RR: 18 Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 11290 times:
Quoting Zeke (Reply 9): The A330-200 is more than capable for India, it is shorter than the AKL-LAX run they do now.
Yes but the 777 is a more comfortable aircraft especially for the India flight and would have been a much better drawcard that the 743's they used to launch the route. It also would have solved the one stop problem initially.
Quoting Zeke (Reply 15): Time will tell, I think it will be decided by which entity ends up with the A330 fleet after the 787 does start arriving.
I'd have thought the domestic, especially the transcons, would have been the best place for the A330's unless the 787's can prove that they have better turn times. The A333's capacity would especially be useful in replacing the 743's.
StickShaker From Australia, joined Sep 2004, 622 posts, RR: 3 Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11143 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1): If only he had bought the 777s when he had the chance 5 years ago. And 3 years ago. And last year...
Yes indeed - also add 10 years ago to that list.
The reason that QF are keen to be an early customer for the 350-1000 is they lack a modern fuel efficient twin such as the 77W in their long haul fleet. They will be operating somewhat thirsty 744's in what will be an environment of high fuel costs until 2015 or later.
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11): And considering Boeing isn't going to launch the 787-10 any time soon and it won't be available before 2014, I think Airbus is now in the driver's seat on selling the A350-1000 to QF. Same timeframe, larger size (something Dixon wants).
With Boeing stating they have no plans for a 777 replacement anytime soon it is now almost a certainty that QF will order the 350-1000 - there is no other game in town. With no opportunity to play off one manufacturer against the other QF are likely to order early to obtain launch discounts. Media articles suggest an order some time this year.
The delays to the 787 program are giving the A330 program a bigger boost than Airbus could ever have imagined.
Baroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 60 Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11081 times:
Quoting Tullamarine (Reply 5): This sounds like QF are going to be after straight cash compensation from Boeing rather than discounts on future orders.
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11): Quoting Tullamarine (Reply 5):
This sounds like QF are going to be after straight cash compensation from Boeing rather than discounts on future orders
Maybe free 738s...
The press release is a bit terse, but substantial liquidated damages followed by the "these funds will be used initially to offset the costs of lease agreements" leaves you wondering if the initially refers to damages being more than would be needed, or to QF having to pay the later costs of leasing.
There was also a Jetstar quote some time ago about the delays which was in the "how would I know" category of comment that did not sound best pleased. They could have found more neutral words had they chosen.
Possibly an issue with the A350 is that so far it is RR only and presumably these will be GE 330s. Then again with more delays to the 787, would GE be thinking again how much it values their commitment to the bigger T7s as opposed to jumping into the 350 ring.
I originally though SIN, but I think BKK may be a better bet. Why?
SIN has a lot of business traffic and is more suited to QF mainline OPS. Also, SIN is already well served by QF from Australian ports
BKK is much more leisure orientated and the QF group don't have much of a presence there. Ie only JQ from MEL and QF from SYD, so there is much more expansion possible there. Ie ADL-BKK, PER-BKK, CNS-BKK, DRW-BKK etc etc
The BKK services to Europe (runoured to be Athens, Rome & Munich) would be ideal to attract Italians, Germans & Greeks to holiday in Thailand also.
Quoting StickShaker (Reply 21): The reason that QF are keen to be an early customer for the 350-1000 is they lack a modern fuel efficient twin such as the 77W in their long haul fleet. They
And what do you call the A330-200?
25 Scipio: As it turns out, the original A350 would have had a fighting chance to beat the 787 in terms of EIS. Today's biggest victims seem to be the 787-9 and
26 Zkpilot: Not from what I hear...whilst JQ has been doing well, for one reason or another I have heard that he is low down the order and that whilst the likes
27 ANstar: 3 contenders for CEO Alan Joyce John Borgetti Peter Gregg Personally I think it will be between John/Peter.
28 Thegeek: I'd think a daily A333 would make sense for SYD-HNL, given that the QF group are now 9x weekly with 763s & A332s. Wasn't it A333s which had the one s
29 ANstar: The 743 opened the route (and was too large). It then dropped to a 333 with a stop in DRW on the outbound. It is now down to an A332 non stop in both
30 Zkpilot: It simply isn't a suitable route for QFs 763s anymore (maybe if they had IFE etc). Due to the A380 delays, QF now has quite a few A332, many of which
31 ANstar: It is comparable to the offering of Hawaiian Airlines ont hat route... anyway I'm sure it will be all Jetstar soon enough. Yup - and I believe 2 more
32 Astuteman: Duh! And on sectors where it IS too large (which are numerous), the A330 becomes an extremely efficient mid-size plane, and the 77W an averagely effi
33 Zkpilot: Possibly, but the thing with Hawaii is that it is not a low cost budget holiday destination like many of JQs others... Most people flying to Hawaii a
34 Rheinwaldner: I want to underline Astuteman's comment and add that the 77W is only the better plane at ranges above A330 ranges. On routes flown with A330's and 77
35 ANstar: EBX is runourmed to be the next 743 to leave the fleet later this year. (Leaving 3 in service) Effective 01 July, a newly delivered domestic A330-200
36 Thorben: What now, Airbus is giving away free A330s to compensate for BOEING'S delay? I thought they'd only do that for their own delays.
37 Thegeek: Whoa there big boy. It might be superior to the 767, but that doesn't make it *extremely* efficient. Isn't even the 772A's CASM roughly similar to th
38 ANstar: I thought the 777 was much heavier, hence why airline slike CX /QF went with the 333 for asian ops that didnt need the extra raange. -200's becuase t
39 StickShaker: The context was 350 seat long haul aircraft - probably should have stressed that a bit more. The 332 is a superb aircraft in its class - 250 seat med
40 Thegeek: I suppose that makes some sense for this time. Last time they bought new A330s for QF it was still all A332s though, even though QF already have the
41 ANstar: Yeah - I believe the 332 was ordered as the 333 was weight restricted on a couple of longer routes (Ie Bombay) the only one I can think of is HNL, bu
42 Chiad: :-| Hello .... The A380-900 will be a better plane on any sector where it is not too large!!
43 BrianDromey: I think all the statement implies is that the compensation Boeing gives will be accounted for against the leases of the 330's. Cash would not have to
44 Columba: I guess QF will order A350-1000s this year given that Boeing will not launch the 787-10 anytime soon.
45 Astuteman: Was a bit abrupt, wasn't I. Sorry for that. Rgds
46 Zeke: I am not sure, QF also has an operation out of SIN that I was understanding that was to get some of those frames when the 787s arrive. The 332 should
47 Industrybuff: All dont also be surprised to see the A340-500 or B777 to make an appearance in the near future for JQ. The A330's really are not suitable to do Asia
48 ANstar: Then I guess the 6 x 332's wont be going to europe (they go to asia then!).... JQ is a LCC and will NOT intorduce another long haul variant.
49 Carls: hahahahah!!!! this one was really good. You made me laugh.........
50 Columba: You know they can afford it because every Airbus that rolls out is completely payed for by EU tax payers money.
51 Stitch: The A350-900 really doesn't bring QF something in the future that the 777 could not have brought them now or in the past. Sure, it's more efficient t
52 Astuteman: The same is true of the A350-1000 of course, in terms or range/payload. Regards
53 Zeke: Apart from more freight, range, passengers, lower fuel burns, and a common pilot pool with the A330, not much really.
54 Stitch: Yes. I expect QF to use the A350-1000 as a regional "mega-hauler" such as many are using the 773/77W for now. A 777-200 and an A350-900 should carry
55 Thorben: I agree. They probably won't be the only one doing so.
56 Lightsaber: If I may interject. The Trent 700's are a far more cost effective engine on sub 4000nm routes than the GE-90's. This is also true of the Trent 800's,
57 Stitch: Let the record show that RR excluded themselves from the LR777 program. Only one engine supplier was going to be on the LR777 because GE and PW both
58 1821: I think the ATH run will not see the light of day. Too much competition from TG, SQ and EK. Personally i'd love to see JQ do the ATH run. Atleast this
59 StickShaker: QF's 4 engined long haul fleet is more a result of opportunistic purchases of very cheap new/near new 744 frames in the late 90's rather than any hes
60 Baroque: Run that past us again Stitch. The last sentence implies that the fuel consumption of the 777 in the past was less than the 350 will be in the future
61 YULWinterSkies: Right, it is relatively little additional fleet complexity to add the 340NG to an existing fleet of A330. A more serious issue if adding the 777 thou
62 Jfk777: Qantas knew this was an extremely cutting edge program, and liked what they saw they ordered up 120 787's. Given the 3 year wait for the A380 they sho
63 Moo: Is it just me, or are people adding to the A380s delay whenever they feel like it? And why shouldn't Qantas complain 'too much'? It was Boeing that m
64 BlueShamu330s: Me thinks if Jfk was a fisherman, he'd be the one that let the one get away that was big ! Presuming, of course that absolutely nothing, nada, z
65 BrianDromey: 3 year A380 delay? Try half that. Complain too much? Why? Boeing made guarantees. They said "you can have it in X quarter of Y year" were qantas supp
66 Stitch: What I am trying to say is that even if an A350-900 burns 25% less fuel then a 777-200ER, fuel prices will (very likely) be more then 25% higher when
67 YWG747: Since Boeing has the delays will then be paying for the lease of these other planes for them? Or are they just going to pay out a lump sum for the "de
68 ClassicLover: *yawn* How do you figure that? Stick a Skybed in a 737 and it would be just as comfortable as a 747.
69 Stitch: It depends on how the contract is worded. In some cases, Boeing might be on the hook for the lease, which could get very expensive (depending on how
70 Moo: Above and beyond the lease, it depends on how important Qantas is to Boeing - if Boeing don't make some effort at remuneration considering that every
71 Baroque: WADR Brian respect, close but no ceegar. Try ""ah mate, if the yanks deliver the bloody things early we'll just park 'em in the bush until we're good
72 FlyingAY: But how will the average ticket price and general inflation affect this? The fuel costs hit everybody equally, so if their competitors are flying 777
73 HawkerCamm: I can imagine Qantas may use the delay in the B787-9 to reopen negotiations with Boeing and Airbus. Firstly when Qantas ordered the B787-9 there was n
75 Sydscott: It was a failure because they thought they were going to use it for the hourly shuttles between MEL and SYD. Once they did put it on the transcons it
76 Woodsboy: It has been noted in the forum that several airlines are considering or even firmly commited to leasing A330-XXXs to take up the slack in the delay of
77 Aussie747: Given QF pocketed A$202 million for the initial 12 ordered A380 delays I could easily see the QF Group amassing upwards of A$350million for their 787.
78 Stitch: Yes, but their competitors flying the 777-200ER today are making money today flying it. Yes, it will cost them more to operate it in 2013 then QF fly
79 AirNZ: Respectfully, with a customer order of 120 units at tens of millions each, that customer has every valid right to complain as much as they want if th
80 ANstar: I also think that SYD-AKL/CHC would be a good use for the 332 to replace some more 767 flying.... so there are definately alot of domestic routes whe
81 PlaneInsomniac: Would you have accepted the same excuse for the A380? "Qantas knew that this was a new plane pushing the boundaries of engineering, and they knew wha
82 StickShaker: I would blame QF themselves for not having the foresight to bring the 772ER and then the 77W into their fleet when they had numerous opportunities to
83 AirNZ: I still don't rightly agree here, and I still would like an explanation of this concept........how does any aircraft delay (380, 787 or otherwise) ca
84 Thegeek: An excellent point. I hadn't heard about this before, but I guess in some cases it is worth a new fleet type. I've posted before that I don't underst
85 Zkpilot: I think the point they are trying to make is not so much that the 744 is using more fuel, it is that QF as a group may have planned to be using less
86 Ditzyboy: Whilst the 332s were most definitely not suited to East Coast ops, they were completely suitable for Perth ops due to their passenger and cargo carry
87 Thegeek: It wasn't obvious that I was excluding transcons from my argument that the 332s were a failure for domestic? A333s are much better.
88 QFYMML: Some relevant info in the following article, particularly on compensation & the plan to lease an additional 6xA332: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.
89 Asiaflyer: Yep, and it should not only cover the lease of the A332's. It should also compensate for the extra fuel burn for the A332's comparing to the 787. A l
90 QFYMML: If I'm recalling correctly, I believe QF got in the region of $200m which was reflected in their Financial Results?
91 StickShaker: The 777 no longer fits QF's needs as they desire the latest technology such as the 65 787's on order and soon the 350-1000. 777's are no longer viewe
92 BAW716: It would be a stretch. The range on the A332 is 6000mi and SIN-FCO is 6249mi (GCM), SIN-ATH 5622mi (using ETOPS138 rules). Their longest run at the m
93 Thegeek: Probably more of a tech/ops type question, but is the issue here that the pressure ratio is so high that you get bitten more by turbine inlet tempera
94 Astuteman: In hindsight it would appear so. That John Leahy...... It would appear that Airbus are also VERY fortunate that their "last generation" mid-size jet
95 Thegeek: BKK-FCO and BKK-ATH should be reasonably easy though, at 4798nm and 4287nm respectively.
96 DavidByrne: Actually, QF is running A332s for a few months on AKL-LAX, which is 6,505 miles.
97 Astuteman: Presumably that's statute miles. The great circle mapper shows this as 5,652 Nm. Airbus quote the range of the A332 a 6,750 nautical miles. Although
98 Rafabozzolla: But it does fly daily to MXP with 773. So maybe FCO could be to JQ and MXP to SQ
99 Stitch: This is exactly the information I have been looking for. Thank you.
100 6thfreedom: I don't agree with comment one based on comment two. From an overall flight perspective from DRW/PER/ADL to FCO, doesn't make much of a difference if
101 Thegeek: My calculations are that it's something like half an hour longer for PER based pax going via BKK vs SIN. Like I said in reply 28, they might have to s
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I agree, and that will be for the QF group, the combined QF/JQ entity.
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