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Varig To Drop MEX/CDG/MAD. Focus On South America  
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11440 posts, RR: 58
Posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7404 times:
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Sad...

Gol just announced they will drop MEX effective May 11, MAD effective May 12 and CDG effective June 9.

It's a sad end of an era of long-haul flights under RG brand to Europe and North America (as JFK will probably not happen anytime soon) this time because of several mistakes taken by G3 management.

- Focus on a city well served and without valuable connections
- Using 763's with bad conditions to fight on Premium Markets
- Tried to fight against JJ, AF, LH, BA, all well established on their markets (CDG, FRA, LHR)
- Launch International routes just 3-4 weeks before flights begin
- Offer the same fare
- Neglects other airports, inclusive GIG

Sad...

Felipe


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7361 times:

This sadly shows that Gol didn't know what it was doing with the kind of airline that RG runs. I'm sure they told all the RG people they didn't know what they were talking about so G3 mgmt made all the decisions.

Very sad.... the Varig brand has far more value outside of Brazil. G3 needs to quickly figure out how to make it work and use it. If they can't make RG work on int'l routes, then they should dismantle it altogether. There is no need to have 2 brands within S. America.

Hopefully they will regroup and try again.


User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1178 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7345 times:
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It seems like the marca Varig is emulating the sad state of affairs of the Pan Am brand that once it was no longer viable as a global carrier , the brand kept reappearing as a sad, small, local carrier. Maybe in a few years in the future the Varig brand will be sold off by Gol and become the name of regional carrier flying out of POA to Pelotas and Rio Grande, with a fleet of clapped out Brasilias, while Gol develops an innovative international product to key cities in North America and Europe perhaps on a Icelandic model once 787's become available.

I will miss the Pioneira in international flying, having first flown them in 1965 on a CV 90 from Brasil to Miami, and having last flown them in 1990 on a DC-10 from JFK to Brasil. By that time their service levels had dropped and were on par with the not memorable US flag airlines and way below their service level during their peak years in the late 70's and during the 80's when they were the class airline to fly to South America. Amazing service, amazing flight crews, beautiful a/c. I think I have more segments on RG 860/861 from JFK to GIG than any other flight number I have jotted down over the past 40 years. I still get the heeby jeebys as I recollect that wonderful female voice of Ms. Iris at GIG in the late 70's, 80's and 90's who announced '' Varig anuncia a saida do seu voo. . .. . and then repeating the announcement in English and Spanish. I always connect the beauty of her announcements to boarding an RG overnight flight heading to USA or Europe.

Oh well all good things eventually pass.

John



The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3708 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7341 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 1):
This sadly shows that Gol didn't know what it was doing with the kind of airline that RG runs. I'm sure they told all the RG people they didn't know what they were talking about so G3 mgmt made all the decisions.

Yep, and I think they were fired as well. G3 management promoted terror against old RG staff that remained. It was all part of old grudges between VP, TR and RG.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11440 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7336 times:
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The full Press Release in English from Varig/Gol Investor Relations website

São Paulo, April 10, 2008 – GOL Linhas Aéreas Inteligentes S.A. (NYSE: GOL and Bovespa:
GOLL4), the parent company of Brazilian airlines GOL Transportes Aéreos S.A. and VRG Linhas
Aéreas S.A., announces VRG is restructuring its international routes, focusing on better adapting to
market conditions, increasing its presence in the domestic and South American markets and
concentrating efforts on routes where it maintains competitive advantages. The repositioning of
VRG’s international route network is based on the actions necessary to maintain the Company’s
continued success and sustainability.
Operating costs in the highly competitive international market have increased substantially with
persistent increases in oil prices, which recently hit a record high of US$ 112 per barrel. The cost of
fuel has been impacted by the prices of WTI and Gulf Coast Jet, which increased on average 68 and
61 percent, respectively, in 1Q08 compared to 1Q07. Fuel currently represents nearly 40 percent of
VRG’s operating costs.
Recognizing that aircraft with low operating costs are essential in the current environment, VRG
remains committed to its fleet renewal plan. By the end of 2008, the fleet will be comprised of 29
Boeing 737 Next Generation aircraft. These airplanes have lower operational costs, are more fuel
efficient, and offer higher productivity rates. These new aircraft will allow VRG to increase
competitiveness, offering benefits for both the Company and VRG’s passengers, as new aircraft
provide greater passenger comfort. VRG’s Boeing 737 aircraft are designed to offer more legroom
than any other Brazilian airline.
In addition to increased comfort, onboard service tailored to the length of each flight, VIP lounges in
the Curitiba, Porto Alegre, Rio de Janeiro (Galeão) and São Paulo (Guarulhos) airports, and the
SMILES program (the largest mileage program in Latin America), VRG offers a unique product in the
Brazilian commercial aviation industry. “These measures and operational changes will improve the
performance of the Company, which is fundamental for the evolution of the business,” says
Constantino de Oliveira Júnior, president of GOL Linhas Aéreas Inteligentes. “Our team remains
committed to offering the best air transportation service in the market.”
The Company’s focus is to expand its route network in Brazil and South America by maintaining a
lean cost structure and increasing revenues. An important step in this plan was taken in March, with
the introduction VRG’s new domestic flight network. The changes were designed to expand the
Company’s presence in high traffic business travel markets by improving connectivity and distribution
for various domestic destinations. After several changes to the international route network to focus on
South American destinations, VRG will continue to offer daily flights to Bogota, Buenos Aires,
Caracas and Santiago.
The Company would like to underscore that VRG employees will not be affected by these network
changes and that it will continue to give former VARIG employees priority in the selection processes
for new hires as operations refocus and expand.
The Company believes that current and future investments in VRG will lead to improved efficiency
and profitability. Resources have already been allocated to information technology, premium
passenger services and expansion of VRG’s route network through interline agreements with other
airlines. VRG’s goal is to focus on existing interline agreements, particularly those with international
airlines offering service to and from Brazil.
To this end, VRG will suspend flights to several international destinations over the next two months.
Flights to Mexico City will be suspended on May 11, flights to Madrid on May 12 and operations to
Paris will cease on June 9. This strategic decision was a responsible and calculated response based
on careful analysis of external factors and competitive attributes of the services offered by VRG that
are affecting consolidation of the Company’s performance in these markets.
VRG is committed to providing assistance to those customers who have already purchased one-way
or return tickets to suspended destinations after the dates announced and will maintain open,
transparent communications to address any customer concerns. Alternative flight information will be
available on the Company’s website, www.varig.com.br. VRG has also created a toll-free number for
customers with questions: 0800-728-7787. The service will be available 24 hours a day, seven days a
week. Customers who prefer a refund should work directly with their travel agent, while customers
who purchased tickets directly from VRG can request a refund by e-mail:
reembolso.central@varig.com.
GOL Linhas Aéreas Inteligentes S.A. would like to reaffirm that the acquisition of VRG made it
possible for the group to expand its operating capacity in addition to creating new routes and offering
service to new destinations. The acquisition also allowed the VARIG brand to continue operating
under Brazilian administrative control and focused on strategic objectives, with an outlook of growth
and job creation, while maintaining the social functions of the Company, its competitiveness and
strong brand both in Brazil and globally. “That the acquisition of VRG occurred in a difficult year for
the airline industry shows that we are ready and prepared to deal with adversity, without allowing
obstacles to derail our strategic plan of long-term growth,” concludes de Oliveira Júnior.

Link:
http://www.mz-ir.com/gol/2006/web/arquivos/GOL_PR_20080410_eng.pdf

Varig will return all 763 shortly as per the message.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5222 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7279 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
Gol just announced they will drop MEX effective May 11, MAD effective May 12 and CDG effective June 9.

WTF!!! Noooo nooo... one more carrier going from MEX!!!  Sad

AV, O3, LA, CM, AM, TA and many more should be very happy this night reading AR and now RG are leaving the market. What a total shame.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 4):
Varig will return all 763 shortly as per the message.

Wow, absolutely all?? How many did RG received??

g77



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11440 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7265 times:
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Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 5):
Wow, absolutely all?? How many did RG received??

They have 8 IIRC (PP-VAA, VAB, VAC, VAD, VAE, VAF, VAN, VAO , plus 3 from EuroAtlantic (PP-VTC, PP-VPV and PP-VTE)

2 runs EZE flights, 2 run CDG/SCL, 2 run MAD and GIG-BSB-MAO, 2 runs MEX and GRU-MAO, 1 runs CCS, 1 runs BOG and 1 complete EZE and act as a reserve plane.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAAL0616 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 272 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7261 times:



Quoting Coronado (Reply 2):
I still get the heeby jeebys as I recollect that wonderful female voice of Ms. Iris at GIG in the late 70's, 80's and 90's who announced '' Varig anuncia a saida do seu voo. . .. . and then repeating the announcement in English and Spanish. I always connect the beauty of her announcements to boarding an RG overnight flight heading to USA or Europe.

Me too ...

Many of us were looking forward to seeing our friends again at MIA with that nice updated logo. Now, we will not, it appears. It is often even hard to spot them going in and out of GRU.


User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5222 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7239 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 6):
They have 8 IIRC (PP-VAA, VAB, VAC, VAD, VAE, VAF, VAN, VAO , plus 3 from EuroAtlantic (PP-VTC, PP-VPV and PP-VTE)

Thank you Felipe! These numbers match my count. So, are all these 11 frames going to be returned???

What's today's RG market share in domestic and international market?

g77



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11440 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7221 times:
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Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 8):
Thank you Felipe! These numbers match my count. So, are all these 11 frames going to be returned???

Per their press release yes, they plan to fly only B737NG (which means CCS and BOG with 738 also) up to the end of 2008. Their next fleet plan release will show probably that the new 738 to be received will replace 5/6 B763 used nowadays on South American flights.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 8):
What's today's RG market share in domestic and international market?

As per ANAC information's:

March/08

Domestic

Gol : Share - 37.43% / Load - 60%
Varig: Share - 3.93% / Load - 43%

International

Gol : Share - 9.81% / Load - 75%
Varig : Share - 18.82% / Load - 49%

Quoting Coronado (Reply 2):
I still get the heeby jeebys as I recollect that wonderful female voice of Ms. Iris at GIG in the late 70's, 80's and 90's who announced '' Varig anuncia a saida do seu voo. . .. . and then repeating the announcement in English and Spanish. I always connect the beauty of her announcements to boarding an RG overnight flight heading to USA or Europe.

It's still there (on GIG) and some other Brazilian Airports. At least the voice as RG intercontinental flights will disappear, now for sure, for ever.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineRojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2456 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7195 times:



Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 5):
AV, O3, LA, CM, AM, TA and many more should be very happy this night reading AR and now RG are leaving the market. What a total shame.

Who has IATA designator: O3?

AV shouldn't be that happy since there are also strong rumors that OceanAir (O6) will stop flying to Mexico. If they are true, flights AV8500 GRU-MEX and AV8501 MEX-GRU will be axed next month. Lets see if OceanAir changes its mind with Varig's departure from MEX...


User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5222 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7194 times:

Thank you very much Felipe! As always, as always, accurate information, really appreciated for taking the time to get back this fast!

It was about time for G3 to make a 180º and change its business plan before its late and JJ gets everything!!!

g77

PD. Sorry Rojo, it should read O6. With RG leaving, I'm sure OceanAir will hold a few more months, perhaps they didn't expected this RG change of plans, this could ease things up for them.

[Edited 2008-04-10 21:04:33]


Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1178 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7193 times:
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Thanks Felipe
The announcement of a flight GIG - CGH does not evoke the spirit of Ms. Iris announcing an intercontinental flight during the 80's. You have to experience her breathless annnouncement to really appreciate it. Ms. Iris = RG = GIG remains the ultimate flight experience flight announcement from Lat Am to rest of the world.



The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11440 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7161 times:
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Quoting Coronado (Reply 12):
Thanks Felipe
The announcement of a flight GIG - CGH does not evoke the spirit of Ms. Iris announcing an intercontinental flight during the 80's. You have to experience her breathless annnouncement to really appreciate it. Ms. Iris = RG = GIG remains the ultimate flight experience flight announcement from Lat Am to rest of the world.

Agree 100% !

Here you can hear her voice for a while and see a little more about her history.

http://www.irislettieri.com.br/



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7108 times:

Very, VERY sad to learn Varig is dropping MEX. One of my favorite airlines will not land at Ciudad de Mexico again. First, it was Ocean air pulling out of MEX, then Aerolineas Argentinas pulls out of MEX and CUN, now Varig. Damn, not what I wanted to see

User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6920 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
Sad...

Gol just announced they will drop MEX effective May 11, MAD effective May 12 and CDG effective June 9.

Thanks for the news, Lipe. But I think this is a good indication that shows market dynamics are in place. RG strategy was a mistake. There was no value addition or innovation on RG flights. As I said many times, RG could have offered a different, niche-oriented product, such as GIG or REC hub, which would differentiate it from the other players in the market.

The good think is that because of RG axed these routes we will have a couple of extra slots in GRU during premium schedules. We will have 3 departure and 3 landing slots up for grabs which will be quickly absorbed by other airlines.

Rgs,


User currently offlineHALFA From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1354 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6883 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 4):
By the end of 2008, the fleet will be comprised of 29
Boeing 737 Next Generation aircraft.

Thank you Felipe for the info. Sad indeed! RG, historically, one of my favorite airlines. I hoped to see them return to America some day, but it looks like that will not happen any time soon. The press release mentions that their fleet will consist of 29 737s at the end of 2008. Do you or anyone else know when they will send back their 767s? HA could really use them!

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 15):
The good think is that because of RG axed these routes we will have a couple of extra slots in GRU during premium schedules. We will have 3 departure and 3 landing slots up for grabs which will be quickly absorbed by other airlines.

I'm really not familiar with how slots are awarded at Brazilian airports but do you think that KE might be awarded a new slot for their new service to LAX from GRU? The flights are finally loaded in their website.

Aloha,
HALFA



Don't mess with Texas....We just may do that!
User currently offlinePutnik From Brazil, joined Aug 2007, 229 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6754 times:



Quoting Coronado (Reply 12):
The announcement of a flight GIG - CGH does not evoke the spirit of Ms. Iris announcing an intercontinental flight during the 80s. You have to experience her breathless announcement to really appreciate it. Ms. Iris = RG = GIG remains the ultimate flight experience flight announcement from Lat Am to rest of the world.

In my opinion, Ms. Iris announcements were one on the best moments while travelling in Brazil.  Smile
I miss her.

Can someone shed a light into why such a disastrous chain of events occurred regarding G3 and RG longhaul attempt? It appeared that huge G3 route network and well established RG brand combined with stability and deep pockets of GOL would result in something sustainable. And yet, they have chosen to use sub par equipment, odd schedules and enter only highly competitive markets and so they flunked.

I'm still puzzled with FRA-GIG and it's 6:30am departure ex FRA.  Confused



LH504 - we always remember our first :)
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 18, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6746 times:



Quoting HALFA (Reply 16):
I'm really not familiar with how slots are awarded at Brazilian airports but do you think that KE might be awarded a new slot for their new service to LAX from GRU? The flights are finally loaded in their website

It could be possible that KE now receives better slots in GRU, but this is part of ANAC/INFRAERO political decisions. It helps the fact that KE will operate in the same terminal RG operates. On the other hand, if KE operates GRU-ICN red-eye it could also lead to a schedule problems as it would not fit with a good ICN arrival time missing KE connection bank. You also have to consider that other airlines such as EK are requesting better slots in GRU...

You are correct, KE loaded GRU on their website and promotional fares for the introductory flights from June to August. I wish them success in their operations in GRU!

Btw, in contrast to RG's constant demise, TAM launched its dedicated First Class lounge in GRU, the first of its kind. CGH also got a new TAM dedicated lounge for Fidelidade Red and connecting business class pax.

Rgs,


User currently offlineSampa737 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 637 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6720 times:

Isn't the way Vasp and TransBrasil went? They flew everywhere but eventually focused on Brasil and then infelizmente shut down? I know that Gol owns RG but what is the advantage of 1 company owning 2 airlines? Would it not be more feasible to merge the 2 under one name? Or is this more of a "We want to see the name Varig in the air"? It's not the same airline, that is for sure.

I think both Gol and Tam have gotten greedy, moved to fast and if they are not careful someone else will come in and take them down as well.

Just an opinion of a novice who lives in Sao Paulo.  Smile


User currently offlineAvianca707359B From Colombia, joined Oct 2005, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6715 times:



Quoting Coronado (Reply 2):
more segments on RG 860/861 from JFK to GIG



Quoting Coronado (Reply 2):
I recollect that wonderful female voice of Ms. Iris at GIG

Same here...

I've flown the "Old Varig" on their 707 / 747-200 / 747-300 / DC-10's - nothing but great memories.

Sad to hear about their "shrinking" world.



In Memory of HK-1402 "Sucre" & HK-1410 "Bolivar"
User currently offlineDellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6665 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
Sad...

Gol just announced they will drop MEX effective May 11, MAD effective May 12 and CDG effective June 9.

It's a sad end of an era of long-haul flights under RG brand to Europe and North America (as JFK will probably not happen anytime soon) this time because of several mistakes taken by G3 management.

Personally, I believe this shows how GOL's management over RG was a complete fiasco!! How on earth would they compete with established carriers like AF, AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ, AM, IB?? Why did they sign all those interline agreements for?

GOL's RG adventure is doomed!! I don't see how they can grow on the domestic market and even in South American destinations. I think SCL and BOG will be the next ones to be axed by RG.

On the other hand, AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ must be shooting fireworks!! They will probably have to revaluate the longhaul onder numbers.
More wide bodies will be needed to replace RG flights.


User currently offlineBOAC911 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6578 times:
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The fact they dropped a city like FRA which had a very old and solid following (or trying to maintain a presence with rediculous departure times) then adding CDG and MAD for a few months and then dropping them, goes to show that someone in RG network management thinks you can juggle destinations around like easyjet, ryanair, or AirBerlin do.
A full-service, full fare, international airline can not be run like a low cost low fare airline. Period.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11440 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6521 times:
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Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 11):
Thank you very much Felipe! As always, as always, accurate information, really appreciated for taking the time to get back this fast!

Always a pleasure!

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 15):
Thanks for the news, Lipe. But I think this is a good indication that shows market dynamics are in place. RG strategy was a mistake. There was no value addition or innovation on RG flights. As I said many times, RG could have offered a different, niche-oriented product, such as GIG or REC hub, which would differentiate it from the other players in the market.

A lot of mistakes i should say. As i write and Valor "copied", Gol faced a strategy dilema. They take advantage of dismissal of Transbrasil, Vasp and Varig it self to grow. Now they need to grow by themselves, and it's very clear they don't know how to do that ! Poor product for international long haul, bad Hub decision, lack of domestic connecting network, lack of code-share agreements abroad, lack of good pricing policy, short term focus on a long term market, brand positioning, terrible time-tables (GIG-FRA, LHR operations), mistakes about first destinations (should begin flying to the US, an under-served market not to Europe), and the assumption that slots are so valuable for it self. They waste more than R$ 700 million to hold slots they now will return in 6 months to ANAC.
Without the right product and a good price strategy, avoid competition... and they tried to change an economic rule... results are.. very.. clear.

Quoting HALFA (Reply 16):
Thank you Felipe for the info. Sad indeed! RG, historically, one of my favorite airlines. I hoped to see them return to America some day, but it looks like that will not happen any time soon. The press release mentions that their fleet will consist of 29 737s at the end of 2008. Do you or anyone else know when they will send back their 767s? HA could really use them!

Hi Halfa, yes it's very sad, but they decided to go wrong, this is the price.
Probably by june they will return 4 767, 2 more on July, but they are still negotiating with Lessors. Some penalty fees probably will apply.

Quoting Putnik (Reply 17):
I'm still puzzled with FRA-GIG and it's 6:30am departure ex FRA.

One of the bad decisions taken by RG management. Because of one plane (they run the routes to São Paulo and Rio with 3 planes), they lost FRA for ever.

Quoting Sampa737 (Reply 19):
Isn't the way Vasp and TransBrasil went? They flew everywhere but eventually focused on Brasil and then infelizmente shut down? I know that Gol owns RG but what is the advantage of 1 company owning 2 airlines? Would it not be more feasible to merge the 2 under one name? Or is this more of a "We want to see the name Varig in the air"? It's not the same airline, that is for sure.

Sampa, Vasp and Transbrasil are quite different. The only fact that happen on the three cases is a non-sense international expansion. But on different frames: Vasp/Transbrasil on 90's with a strong real were hitted by the devaluation which reduced the demand for Brazilians. Varig now is basically bad management only to compete with the wrong product on the wrong market at the right time.

The problem with 2 brands / 1 airline is that you need to be different one to the other.. and what do they tried to do ? Focus domestic on CGH, the same airport where G3 holds their main hub. Or the international service from where there is competition to LHR, FRA, CDG, MAD. The only route they can be a kind of innovator, FCO, they postpone and watch AZ begin it's services.

If they focus on MIA and JFK with 2 daily flights each (4 763) and LAX with a single daily flight (2 763), as well as focusing routes like GIG-LHR (2 763) they could be running the flights right now. Two additional 763 could run routes from Northeast looking for a partnership with any US Airline. Imagine your network with 7 daily flights to the US from São Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, Belo Horizonte, Brasilia, Salvador, Recife and Fortaleza (for example). A lot better than Europe right now.


Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 21):
Personally, I believe this shows how GOL's management over RG was a complete fiasco!! How on earth would they compete with established carriers like AF, AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ, AM, IB?? Why did they sign all those interline agreements for?

Good question....

Quoting BOAC911 (Reply 22):
The fact they dropped a city like FRA which had a very old and solid following (or trying to maintain a presence with rediculous departure times) then adding CDG and MAD for a few months and then dropping them, goes to show that someone in RG network management thinks you can juggle destinations around like easyjet, ryanair, or AirBerlin do.
A full-service, full fare, international airline can not be run like a low cost low fare airline. Period.

Not only FRA but also LHR, and i agree 100% with you.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAM744 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 1779 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6446 times:



Quoting Juventus (Reply 14):
Very, VERY sad to learn Varig is dropping MEX. One of my favorite airlines will not land at Ciudad de Mexico again. First, it was Ocean air pulling out of MEX, then Aerolineas Argentinas pulls out of MEX and CUN, now Varig. Damn, not what I wanted to see

Not the best scenario, I guess AM and MX will be more than happy to take their share in the market, although the general public won't receive the benefit of competition and better fares.


25 Sleeperseat : I can not imagine how such a great carrier as RG was back in the days can disappear from the stage. I like TAM as well, great Airline with perfect pro
26 Dellatorre : I can. Just look at what happened with Pan Am!!!! This is one of the main reasons for RG's failure. The obsession for holding the old Varig slots led
27 C010T3 : I'm sorry, but old RG has nothing to do with the failed launch of these routes.
28 AF022 : They really didn't have a very good business plan, and hubris probably played a role.
29 Putnik : I know it is late to play a "shoulda-coulda" card but I feel operating routes at a loss would not be the end of the world in the medium term. It can't
30 Incitatus : As a South America only airline, Varig cannot survive with an independent network from Gol. Passengers need to be able to book and have seamless conne
31 Donzilasse : It is said to see this possible end to the Varig name however it kind of shows that it is not the same thing to compete internationally as it is to do
32 VC10er : In my opinion they were doomed from the day sr constantino said that VARIG would have good service but not premium (stated in Icaro right after GOL's
33 Farmenta : Hello Guros, I am very sad to hear that RG is droping MEX! I am one of the travelers affected by RG droping the MEX route and I need some help here. A
34 Farmenta : Kudos, One more question! Any ideas if OceanAir is planning on dropping MEX in the months to come? Fer
35 C010T3 : Well, AFAIK they are going to reaccommodate the passengers in other carriers, but I am not 100% sure. You should better call them and ask.
36 LVZXV : Felipe, You just saved me 1,200USD with this thread! Muito obrigado!! I made a reservation this week with RG for CDG-GRU-EZE for this December, return
37 Ghost77 : Isn't aviation a wonderful business???!!! g77
38 SJOtoLIR : Some weeks backward, both G3 and RG were duplicating the same route: SCL-GRU as non-stop. Suddenly, G3 dropped the dedicated flight to SCL remaining
39 Coronado : How much of a financial hit is Gol taking as a result of the decision to severely cut-back VRG and the decision to reuturn the 767's? Will this jeopar
40 Flying Belgian : I've recently heard that the Europe-Brazil market is quite in an overcapacity situation. Can someone confirm this ? I'm not too astonished to see that
41 LipeGIG : But it's hard to fly daily to SCL a 767 with less than 50 passengers. They are crazy, flying to SCL almost the same time of LA 763 service (which is
42 LipeGIG : Yes it is. It's now on a situation designed for high-season, not low season. Even last week with RG services in place, TP reduced 2 weekly GIG-LIS, I
43 LAXintl : Great points. Makes one wonder what GOL which was a darling airline in the eyes of the domestic market and investment community was thinking with Var
44 C010T3 : That's a good question, but apparently this is not happening on the short term, since three 73G are scheduled to be swapped from G3 to RG.
45 LipeGIG : I believe they will stop using RG brand very soon. Does not make sense to have two brands to compete on the domestic market at the same routes with a
46 Dellatorre : That would be the wisest decision at this point. Varig's image is already in the toilet, they just need to flush it!!! Do you think those frequencies
47 FlyTUITravel : I am shocked to hear this, as only months ago I was reading about RG restarting flights to LHR, CDG etc and now they have stopped again, for good!!! W
48 RCS763AV : Actually, i would think BOG will be the last destination to be cut, the reasons: 1. The bilaterall between Colombia and Brasil has been historically
49 Avianca : well IMO, if they make it right... they can make good money with only intra-latam service. Well had this year already several flights.. .and I have to
50 LipeGIG : Yes, probably. Demand for the summer appears to be very strong. Fares are moving to higher levels every week. There are rumors that 5 B763 will conti
51 JJMNGR : GOL announced that all VARIG operations in South America will be operated by B738, so seems all B767 are going to leave the fleet.
52 SJOtoLIR : RG utilizes the 767 into BOG-GRU. The 738 fully packed might not be capable to cover such route comfortably based on the altitude at BOG and taking i
53 Avianca : same goes for CCS... specially the southbound flights stopped more than once in MAO when the 738 was used on the route.
54 JJMNGR : Ok, I just posted what GOL/VARIG announced. And don´t seems to me they will keep 02 frames on the fleet just to operate these two destinations. Ref B
55 C010T3 : They may use 73Gs instead.
56 Avianca : well the CCS flight stopped often in MAO when they had higher loads... and the aicrafts was not able to fly nonstop. would make sense, are there any
57 SJOtoLIR : I agree with your point ! CM flies every day PTY-EZE and PTY-LAX with 738s which are farther than both CCS-GRU and BOG-GRU, adding that CCS does not
58 RCS763AV : But ticket prices are sky high, and a 50% filled 767 means an 80% filled 738. Yes, it would have to stop in MAO, as it has done over the years.
59 AF022 : What is the time frame for the aircraft going back to the lessors? I think I read that GECAS and AWAS are the lessors? Is this right? And what of that
60 C010T3 : Yes, but RG already has some 73Gs... It wouls be just a matter of expanding the 73G fleet in order to enough of them to fly the SDU-CGH shuttle.
61 LipeGIG : There are several lessors, may be 6 IIRC. They will return the planes after they drop the routes: 4 probably by the end of May and 2 more during June
62 Tonytifao : I was always a fan of GOL's mgmt, but today I can't understand them. They need to ask the question... "what do we need to do in order for varig to win
63 SBGLexpat : Perfect! The plain and crude reality is that no matter how good GOL's (and TAM's) management is (thought to be), BOTH airlines only came to be where
64 Dellatorre : Those are the rules!! If someone gets out someone must fill the void. How do you think UA, AA, DL got where they are right now!!!???
65 SBGLexpat : Apologies, but if you think those airlines got where they are the same way GOL and TAM did, you are way off... seems you think they got their market
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