Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
BA Postpones Switch Of Longhaul Services To T5  
User currently offlineSketty222 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1778 posts, RR: 3
Posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7797 times:

British Airways has delayed moving most of its long-haul flights to Heathrow's new Terminal 5 until June.

"It is only sensible to ensure that Terminal 5 is operating consistently at a high standard before the move begins," said BA boss Willie Walsh.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7342263.stm


There's flying and then there's flying
87 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7786 times:

Indeed. That's very sensible. BA and BAA need to work through all the problems before moving any more flights. I'm sure BAA are unhappy about this, but they are largely responsible.

User currently offlineLHR777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7774 times:

Apparently, they're going to use the additional time to provide extra training for the staff in Terminal 4. Pity the poor folk that already moved to T5 didn't get that.

User currently offlineBCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7759 times:

And more on the BA website

click



MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26906 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7750 times:

Very sensible . BA cant afford anymore issues at T5 . This will give them the time they need to make sure everything is done that needs to be done.

User currently offlineManchesterMAN From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1224 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7714 times:

What about gate space in T4? Will this affect any of the other airlines due to move over there?


Flown: A300,A319,A320,A321,A330,A340.A380,717,727,737,747,757,767,777,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,F100,F50,ERJ,E190,CRJ,BAe146,Da
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24923 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7686 times:

So people transferring to long haul flights at LHR are still getting screwed with a change of terminal?


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3544 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7639 times:



Quoting Gkirk (Reply 6):
So people transferring to long haul flights at LHR are still getting screwed with a change of terminal?

And your latest anti BA suggestion is ?

Which would passengers prefer, another ill prepared move, resulting in flight cancellations and another baggage mountain. Or a few more weeks of transferring between terminals, which after all has been the norm at LHR for the past 40 years or so.

BA needs to ensure that they have got everything right this time before the move, and BAA needs toi ensure that the building work on the terminal is actually finished; bearing in mind that BAA have been telling us the completion date for around 2 years, but half the lifts didn't work on day 1, and passengers reported pallets of building materials scattered around


User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17061 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7639 times:

´This is the only right thing BA can do. But I really hope it wont get any further delays.


Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24923 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7625 times:



Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 7):
And your latest anti BA suggestion is ?

They should have had things sorted to avoid all this mess. Thankfully people have other choices than BA (or London Airways  Wink )



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineSketty222 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1778 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7609 times:

I think its a very good move by BA management. Now they'll have time to sort out the operation and get it working properly before the majority of longhaul services move across. It will also give them and BAA a few more weeks to iron out any problems with the baggage system so that when the larger aircraft move across( hence more bags) there will be no issues.

I dont know how this will affect the other airlines' moving into the space that BA had previously occupied. I think they may have something to say about it

Lee



There's flying and then there's flying
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24923 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7602 times:



Quoting Sketty222 (Reply 10):
Now they'll have time to sort out the operation and get it working properly before the majority of longhaul services move across.

But surely this should have been seen to before T5 opened?



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2894 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7602 times:



Quoting Gkirk (Reply 9):
They should have had things sorted to avoid all this mess.

Like DEN, HKG etc etc when they opened. Some people have very short memories

No-one could have forseen the tech problems; each company had too much at stake to knowingly f$$k it up.

Training, or lack of, is something directly attributable to BA, however.



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlineAPYu From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 837 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7576 times:

Gutted - I had a trip to the US booked in May as I wanted to try that Champagne Bar Sad


We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24923 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7530 times:



Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 12):
No-one could have forseen the tech problems



Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 12):
Like DEN, HKG etc etc when they opened. Some people have very short memories

 Wink



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlinePilot21 From Ireland, joined Oct 1999, 1384 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7333 times:



Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 7):
BA needs to ensure that they have got everything right this time before the move, and BAA needs to ensure that the building work on the terminal is actually finished; bearing in mind that BAA have been telling us the completion date for around 2 years, but half the lifts didn't work on day 1, and passengers reported pallets of building materials scattered around

Completely agree, and can confirm the place still was a building site when I passed through it on April 1st. Given this was a building that was 'handed over' almost 1 yr ago to BAA/BA for familiarisation and general fitting out, the finish in parts was appalling. Ceiling tiles were missing in large sections exposing wires/air conditioning and heating ducts and there was sawdust/wood chippings and glass panels/railings on certain sections not finished/missing. On the numerous escalators from the first outside Pier back to the main terminal the floors looked scuffed/worn and dirty.

While the visual impression of the building from the outside looked impressive, in the arrivals section after a long haul flight overnight from Hong Kong, I was shocked that the building had been allowed to be opened in such a state, it was a disgrace to BAA & BA

Pilot21



Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19203 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7289 times:

This transfer delay is the number-one news item on BBC this lunchtime.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineManchesterMAN From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1224 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7227 times:



Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 12):
Like DEN, HKG etc etc when they opened. Some people have very short memories

I actually don't see how you can even compare DEN and HKG to T5. These were complete airport moves. All BA has done is moved SOME of their flights to the other side of the same airfield. Frankly the move that BA has just made is on a much smaller scale than DEN and HKG and they should have learned from these problems anyway or perhaps not been so publicly confident that T5 was going to work like clockwork from the start.

I wasted 5+ hours of a saturday morning to attend a trial at T5 so this sort of thing wouldn't happen and so did many thousands of other people.



Flown: A300,A319,A320,A321,A330,A340.A380,717,727,737,747,757,767,777,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,F100,F50,ERJ,E190,CRJ,BAe146,Da
User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2894 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7182 times:



Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 17):
I actually don't see how you can even compare DEN and HKG to T5.

Quite easily; same problems, different scale. Ultimately though, they screwed airline ops equally successfully at the beginning.



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlineBCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 16
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7184 times:

The airlines that were due to move to Terminal 4 on 30 April will now probably be seeking some compensation for the inconvenience, so who will be liable - BA? BAA?

Bearing in mind that already BA will have to pay out GBP 12 million in compensation to passengers as a result of the T5 chaos, it just makes me think that had they spent the time and money to ensure that all their staff had been properly trained and be made familiar with T5, and all systems were thoroughly tested before the first flight landed, the cost would have been a fraction of GB 12 million and BA would have save a fortune not to mention the damage to the BA brand.

I remember that when I attended a T5 trial, a senior BAA spokesman gave a prep talk to participants and said that T5 will set a benchmark for international airports worldwide. Seems the benchmark is a chaotic opening, baggage systems that break down and total disorganisation.
 duck 



MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
User currently offlineElite From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2006, 2796 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7085 times:

Does anyone know if the JFK-LHR route is affected or is it still T5?

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26906 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7028 times:

Quoting Elite (Reply 20):
Does anyone know if the JFK-LHR route is affected or is it still T5?

JFK will not go to T5 until June


Longhaul flights operating from Terminal 4 are:

Abu Dhabi - Muscat Delhi Montreal
Abuja Denver Mumbai (Bombay)
Accra Dhaka Nairobi
Bahrain - Doha Dubai Nassau - Grand Cayman
Baltimore Entebbe Newark
Bangalore Houston Philadelphia
Beijing Islamabad Phoenix
Boston JFK Rio De Janeiro
Cairo Kolkata (Calcutta) Sao Paulo - Buenos Aires
Calgary Kuwait Seattle
Cape Town Lagos Shanghai
Chennai Luanda Tel-Aviv
Chicago Lusaka Toronto
Dallas Mauritius Washington
Dar Es Salaam Mexico -

[Edited 2008-04-11 06:38:52]

User currently offlineZoom1018 From Vietnam, joined May 2005, 230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7014 times:



Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 18):
Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 17):I actually don't see how you can even compare DEN and HKG to T5.
Quite easily; same problems, different scale. Ultimately though, they screwed airline ops equally successfully at the beginning.

How long did it take HKG to resolve the problems? Comparing an overall airport move and a terminal move is funny... and HKG was like ten years ago...


User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2894 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6972 times:



Quoting Zoom1018 (Reply 22):
Comparing an overall airport move and a terminal move is funny...

Not at all. The principle is exactly the same, just on a different scale. The end result though, when an airline is moving lock stock and barrel, be it 500 metres down the road or 50 km down the road, if it goes tits up, it has exactly the same effect on an airline's operations.

BA, in a bizarre sense, is lucky in that they can hold back on some of the move to sort out the $hit. Relocating to a completely new airport doesn't give you that luxury.

Quoting Zoom1018 (Reply 22):
HKG was like ten years ago...

The first motor car was over 100 years ago. By your rationale, cars should no longer have technical problems either.  Yeah sure



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlineElite From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2006, 2796 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6970 times:

If memory serves me right, HKG cleared up the problems relatively quickly.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 21):

JFK will not go to T5 until June

I got a flight JFK-LHR in mid-June... hope everything is resolved by then... T5 is one of the reasons I'm flying BA and not AA.


25 Post contains links Tkseven : seems because of BA's inability to operate fully out of T5 all other carriers are being mucked around http://www.abtn.co.uk/T4_delay_lights_touch_pap
26 BlueShamu330s : They did. Equally, if BA and BAA do the same in a time frame of, say, a month, we will be saying the same about them in 10 years time. In the big pic
27 Aisak : All shorthaul are at T5 but MAD, BCN, HEL, LIS and NCE which are still at T1 and are always B757. Only longhauls at T5 are LAX, SFO, YVR, NRT, HKG, J
28 Zoom1018 : Cars were 100 years but they are kept developed through time. Airport terminals are definitely 'new' in term of technology too, but the lesson there
29 Aisak : I though the first move into T4 was scheduled well after BA's move. Anyway.. How is BMI so concerned if they are operating out of T1? After all, it's
30 Bongodog1964 : BAA seem to have had a relatively easy ride in the press compared to BA over T5; any lack of completeness of the building is however entirely down to
31 BlueShamu330s : Quote Airport Technology: "The baggage handling system at T5 will be the largest baggage handling system in Europe for a single terminal. There will
32 ManchesterMAN : Well how many did problems did SQ have when they moved some of their operations from T2 to T3 at SIN? Countless other airports have opened new termin
33 Sankaps : Agree. I can't think of any new terminal, same airport openings being such a mess anywhere else. Lets see, in the last decade or so... JFK T1, JFK T4
34 Aisak : Comparing two different things. LHR opened a new terminal with no additional capacity. If something goes wrong (like the baggage system) flights cann
35 MAS777 : Fraid i have to agrree with ManchesterMAN here - HKG, DEN and KUL all experienced opening problems and baggage was an issue with HKG and KUL but i re
36 Post contains links BlueShamu330s : Chalk and Cheese. They all continued with old style belt conveyancing of baggage; T5 does not. But if you wish to use that argument, shall we discuss
37 Ikramerica : But this is the BA MO, independent of T5. In other instances when baggage problems happened, it was the same thing for BA. Send them to Italy, sort t
38 OA260 : BMI are not happy either !! Nigel Turner said he was outraged at the decision .
39 Ikramerica : Why not let the other carriers move into T5 and see if they can make a go of it...
40 Treebeard787 : Hmmm, Not good news, I will be flying in to LHR on BA288 in May and connecting to BA768, Will I have to switch terminals now? and which terminals migh
41 B747forever : Yepp, you will land in T4 so you need to switch to T5.
42 Cornish : God knows why. He's got BA out of T1 and has never had so much space to play with.
43 Treebeard787 : Is there some sort of train that I can take to T5 or will I need to take a bus.
44 Post contains links B747forever : From BAs website: How do I transfer between Terminal 4 and 5? If you are connecting to a flight in another Heathrow terminal, follow signs for ‘Fli
45 Treebeard787 : Thanks for the help!
46 B747forever : No problems. Hope you will enjoy your flights with BA!! happy flying,
47 Theginge : Apprently BA won't be moving until they are completly satisfied that T5 is ready for the extra flights. I am sure there will be a bit of a bun fight b
48 Post contains images LHR777 : No carriers were due to move into Terminal 4 on April 30th anyway, so that's not really an issue. The bigger issue is that BA need to vacate T4 to ena
49 BAW716 : T5 is still a mess and is going to be for some time. BA made a horrendous mistake putting as much of their operation as they did at T5 on day one. We
50 Viscount724 : I wonder how the delayed move from T4 affects BA schedules? If not mistaken they reduced block times on many flights to reflect shorter taxi times to/
51 Cruiser : But we have also seen terminals open on this massive scale (i.e. YYZ) without any real problems. Sure the odd little thing didn't work, but overall,
52 Sketty222 : BAA owe it to BA to allow them to stay in T4 until they sort outt he baggage problems at T5. Its BAA's fault that everything went tits up in the first
53 LHR27C : Um, we're 15 days later and T5 is running at a higher level of punctuality than BA managed on average with their operations in T1. It's actually work
54 GDB : The only reasonably thing to do, really. T5 might seem a mere new terminal at an existing airport, but the thing is so vast it might as well be a whol
55 BlueShamu330s : If the Govt. can take Northern Rock out of the hands of lunatics, they can very well do the same to BAA.
56 OA260 : Any airline would have issues.... Its BAA that should take the majority of the blame.
57 LHR777 : Really? So BAA were responsible for BA's employees not having sufficient training time, and proper terminal familiarisation? BAA are to blame for BA
58 FlyboyOz : What's Australia JSA route? What does JSA stands for? Doesn't mean that BA aircraft from Australia go to the T5?
59 Zoom1018 : hence all the chaos Looks: "The luggage system can handle 19,200 pieces of luggage per hour. After luggage is checked in at any one of the 292 counte
60 Tonystan : Actually...They are both equally to blame. BAA too needed to have its own staff available to ensure the system was running to standards, it failed to
61 Qantasclub : At least it works. First bags arrive 12 minutes after arrival and last bag at 29 mins after arrival. This is the case consistently at Changi having a
62 LHR777 : Some things you may not be aware of, as a crew member - BAA has had full-time staff in T5 since December. The baggage system was tested every single
63 Sankaps : And that matters to us, how? The other new terminals seem to work just fine with the "old style belt conveyancing of baggage". In fact in many of tho
64 Sankaps : Yes, but the point is flights need to first be delayed on a large scale due to things not working as planned for the cancellations to pile up. Do not
65 Bongodog1964 : This statement bears no relation to recent press releases from BA, and stories in the media (who haven't exactly been pro BA recently). All report th
66 Speedbird2155 : Actually, the answer is yes. BA had well laid out plans for training and familiarisation, but the building wasn't ready on time and those plans then
67 Sketty222 : JSA stands for Joint Service Agreement BA and QF have a JSA on flights between LHR and SYD. All JSA flights, both BA and QF will eventually depart fr
68 Speedbird2155 : Your 'missus' has been working full time since December in T5 but obviously isn't very aware of exactly how things were progressing. There have been
69 LHR777 : Excuse me? What makes you the authority on T5 anyway? I was a BA employee until 10 days ago. I did all the training, and frankly, it was inadequate.
70 Par13del : Interesting reading, in general: 1. If someone anywhere in the world screws up, that makes it ok or acceptable for you to do the same, no learning fro
71 Theginge : There have been issues with the baggage system since last year, and it wasn't BA staff to blame. Yes BA has the blame for the training side of the BA
72 LHR777 : Therein lies the problem. There's a lot of heresay, and not a lot of fact. BA and BAA will get to the bottom of it, regardless. I have no doubt that
73 OA260 : The thing that casued the MAJOR problem was the baggage system . So IMHO that is where the blame is for loosing all those bags . Also people couldnt
74 LHR777 : Someone told you porkies - they all had varying weights in them, from 5kg to 32kg. Which is fine, until you realise that the major problem was that t
75 Theginge : Sort of correct, they were not empty but they weren't exactly heavy either so not really that realistic.
76 LHR777 : Really? On my second trial, I had a 23KG bag, a 30KG bag and a 9KG carry-on. The weights were painted in day-glo yellow on the sides of the bags, and
77 OA260 : Very different from what has been said by BA behind the doors. 5 KG??? who on earth realistically checks in a 5 kilo bag?? All bags should have been
78 LHR777 : But that's also unrealistic, as it doesn't represent a broad spectrum of bag weights. What if the system has no problem with heavy bags, but light ba
79 OA260 : I'm just a believer in checking , checking again and triple checking thats all. Something that rarely happens these days. I would presume they would
80 Sketty222 : When I did my trials my bags had nothing in them, how do I know?, cos I opened them to look and see if there was anything inside. It looked as if the
81 StarGoldLHR : When I read this I thought you were referring to T3.. At least T5 matches all the other terminals. What other airlines are affected by this ?? And in
82 JACK02116 : Just thought I'd mention that much has improved since day 1. I arrived in from SFO on 12th April, short walk from T5B, down escalators to the train to
83 BAW716 : Puctuality is not the issue...it's departure completion. I certainly am not there, but I have to believe the information I am receiving is credible..
84 Post contains links Viscount724 : BD is very upset at the delay in further terminal moves at LHR. http://www.flybmi.com/bmi/en-gb/abou...entre/press-releases/20080411.aspx
85 LHR27C : Not quite sure what you mean by "departure completion". If you are referring to the physical state of the terminal, i.e. lifts not working etc, yep,
86 Tonystan : Ah, another person who looks down his nose at people just because they are crew!!!! Its this kind of attitude that makes BA an awful place to work an
87 Tonystan : This is EXACTLY what I have been saying...so why have you been trying to contradict me? Please do not tell me you are that naive because I will refus
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Goodbye To BA Services To / From Detroit posted Sat Mar 8 2008 23:15:05 by SpeedBird203
BA Move To T5 At LHR To Be Staged. posted Thu Sep 21 2006 18:47:18 by TristarSteve
Financial Impact Of Aug Disruption To Ba posted Wed Sep 6 2006 01:48:20 by Cusaeng
BA To Cut 1500 Jobs In Move To T5? posted Mon Jan 16 2006 16:49:17 by Scotron11
Which BA Flights Will Move To T5 First? posted Sun May 22 2005 19:55:06 by VirginFSM
BA Feeder Flights To T5 LHR posted Mon Feb 21 2005 12:24:46 by Richardw
BA Long Haul Services To Asia posted Mon Oct 25 2004 17:50:07 by Wheelsatc
Is BA Going To Move To T5? What About T4? posted Sun Feb 1 2004 10:51:55 by 744
BA 737 Instead Of A319 To AMS..... posted Tue May 21 2002 23:09:18 by A388
BA, VS Resume Services To MIA posted Sat Sep 15 2001 17:34:17 by Mah4546