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Official DL/NW Merger: Impact On Regionals  
User currently offlineModerators From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 511 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 10558 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

The news of the pending DL/NW merger has spawned many threads covering very detailed aspects of the transaction, and many forms of speculation. In the interest of keeping the forum organized and the discussions more cohesive, please add your posts in one of the 'official' threads on the subject. You will find them in the forum index with the following titles:

- Official DL/NW Merger: Impact on Fleets & Routes
- Official DL/NW Merger: Impact on Employees
- Official DL/NW Merger: Impact on Regionals
- Official DL/NW Merger: Impact on Alliances
- Official DL/NW Merger: Impact on Airports

Please discuss Impact on Regionals in this thread.


Quite a few threads will be locked (rather than being deleted) as they may duplicate the intent of these official threads.


Please use moderators@airliners.net to contact us.
91 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePhelpsie87 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 498 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 10528 times:

What do people think of the regional situation?

I can't see DL dropping OO or NW dropping CP.

Currently, DLC has SkyWest, Comair, Pinnacle, ASA, Shuttle America, ExpressJet, and Chautauqua, while NW Airlink has Pinnacle, Mesaba, and Compass. With the merger, thats 9 regional carriers, 10 if you count Pinnacle twice for each flag. Who do we see flying more? Flying less? New hubs for regionals? SkyWest to MSP to share with CP? Also, will the new "Delta" reduce the number of regional carriers that would be in place?

Just some questions that I, and I am sure others, would like to see evaluated.


User currently offlineDoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3402 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 10467 times:

Chautauqua and Shuttle are basically the same, but Freedom (Mesa) is also flying for Delta. I doubt you'll much shuffling for a while. More likely as contracts expire new RFPs will go out and the regional fleet can be consolidated. Big things that might be on the horizon- Freedom going under, ExpressJet picking up faltering carriers slack or going under themselves, Pinnacle finally settling contract with their pilot group.


When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9321 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 10477 times:



Quoting Phelpsie87 (Reply 1):

you forgot Mesa for DL (Freedom) which is using CR9s

I see Mesa bing droped and those CR9s going to OH. I see the Shuttle America droped and Compass ordering E75s to replace Shuttle. Express Jet might be droped and OO moved into LAX.



yep.
User currently offlineNwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3385 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 10455 times:

An internal memo from Doug Steenland says XJ & CP are staying... Take it for what it's worth...


"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9321 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 10446 times:



Quoting Nwaesc (Reply 4):



An internal memo from Doug Steenland says XJ & CP are staying... Take it for what it's worth...

Nothing about 9E?



yep.
User currently offlineMiller22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 717 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 10370 times:

Comair is the most exposed. They're the only remaining wholly owned, which means there is no contract that needs to expire. The airplanes just get parked. It's sad how this once great regional has been slowly dismantled by Delta.

User currently offlineNuone97 From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 10310 times:

It has been said that DL CEO Anderson wants to cut the number of regional carriers DL uses down to only 4.

Right now we have Skywest, ASA, Comair ( still owned by DL ), Pinnacle, Freedom (Mesa), Chautauqua, Shuttle America, and ExpressJet.


User currently offlineCrjfixer From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 10292 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 5):

XJ & CP are wholly owned by NW. 9E is not, and Steeland more than likely had no say so ( or didnt care ) either way


User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10129 times:

So NW owns Mesaba and Compass and uses Pinnacle

DL owns Comair and uses Skywest/ASA(skywest) Chautauqua/Shuttle America(republic) Freedom(mesa) Pinnacle and Express Jet

DL wants it to 4 at the end?


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7555 posts, RR: 28
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10129 times:



Quoting Phelpsie87 (Reply 1):
Currently, DLC has SkyWest, Comair, Pinnacle, ASA, Shuttle America, ExpressJet, and Chautauqua, while NW Airlink has Pinnacle, Mesaba, and Compass. With the merger, thats 9 regional carriers, 10 if you count Pinnacle twice for each flag. Who do we see flying more? Flying less? New hubs for regionals? SkyWest to MSP to share with CP? Also, will the new "Delta" reduce the number of regional carriers that would be in place?

Mesa will be as good as gone - which was apparent even pre-merger.
ExpressJet will be dependent on if they want to keep them for LAX feed & at-risk flying versus using one of their wholly-owned
Comair is an unknown to what their future holds.
Pinnacle - may lose some 50 seat flying, but will be more than offset by the gain of more 90-seaters (likely the Mesa flying)
Mesaba - safe
Compass - safe, unless sold off and integrated into Republic
Skywest - safe
ASA - safe


The extent of rationalization at the regional level will be very dependent on the ability to rework & terminate contracts. Remember that all of NW's regional aircraft - the Saab 340's (Mesaba), CRJ-200's (Pinnacle & Mesaba), CRJ-900's (Mesaba), and EMB-175's (Compass) all have NW as the lease-holder. They allocate them to their regional providers.

Quoting Nuone97 (Reply 7):
It has been said that DL CEO Anderson wants to cut the number of regional carriers DL uses down to only 4.

Right now we have Skywest, ASA, Comair ( still owned by DL ), Pinnacle, Freedom (Mesa), Chautauqua, Shuttle America, and ExpressJet.

Consolidating down to four may have been then plan pre-merger, but it will be very difficult - if not impossible to do so post-merger.

Quoting Crjfixer (Reply 8):


XJ & CP are wholly owned by NW. 9E is not, and Steeland more than likely had no say so ( or didnt care ) either way

Exactly, they are wholly owned by NWA. However, there is some speculation that NW/DL could sell/spin-off CP to Bedford and the boys over at Republic. He'd love to get his hands on as many 175's as possible.


User currently offlineVictorKilo From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10092 times:

I think XJ's SAAB fleet will make an appearance at ATL, operating routes that aren't profitable in an RJ but could make sense in a small turboprop, such as MCN and MEI.

In the longer term, I think there is an opportunity for the combined carrier to bring in a fairly large operation of next-generation larger turboprops (Q400 or ATR72-600), operating sub-400 mile routes, instead of 50 seat regional jets, circulating throughout MSP, DTW, ATL, and JFK.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7555 posts, RR: 28
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10074 times:



Quoting VictorKilo (Reply 11):
I think XJ's SAAB fleet will make an appearance at ATL, operating routes that aren't profitable in an RJ but could make sense in a small turboprop, such as MCN and MEI.

A very plausable scenario if they close MEM. The Saabs at DTW & MSP are fully allocated to the smaller outstations in those markets. But yes, there is a definete need for some 34 seat turboprops to maintain viable service to the smallest outstations at ATL that cannot economically support 50 seat RJ's or the larger ATR-72.


User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4261 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9956 times:

I think this is bad for the regional airline industry as a whole. What happens with such a merger is because of consolidation, demand for regional services goes down, because of overlap. Some regionals will lose flying because of this and then you have a bunch of regional airlines with a bunch of RJ's and no where to fly them. Its a case of lots of supply, but very little demand, and this will serve to push revenues at regionals down and in turn wages for pilots down even worse than they already are. And it will get even worse if a CO-UA merger is approved, in which case I see mesa losing even more flying, with the primary regional carriers being Chautaqua, Republic, SkyWest, and Expressjet.

And furthermore, if both mergers happen, this is going to put pressure on US and AA, which will be a bit smaller than the other carriers. MQ is fine because they are wholly owned by AA and AMR would like to keep it this way. At US most of the carriers are safe based on agreements. However, US is being crippled by the ZW contract, which is all 50 seaters, and they are the biggest regional affiliate at the moment. 50 seat RJ's with 100 dollar oil is an economic disaster, and because of the contract US is stuck with this. Still, I would expect US to try to pressure ZW to get bigger RJ's, but ZW won't likely do it unless they can gain something from it. If they are pressed back into Chapter 11, or if they merge with someone (People talk about AA, but quite frankly I think F9 makes the most sense because the DEN hub will be a huge benefit), then all bets are off and they can maybe dump some of these contracts.

That being said, based on all the events of recent weeks, a Mesa bankruptcy seems inevitable now, and I think Republic Air Group, SkyWest and Pinnacle are in great shape to be the big three of the regional industry. Mesa is in big trouble. Air Wisconsin is relatively safe for the moment, but they need to do something in a hurry or they will be out in a few years themselves. I also think Trans States and GoJet will have big problems if there is a CO-UA merger.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22876 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9820 times:



Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 12):
But yes, there is a definete need for some 34 seat turboprops to maintain viable service to the smallest outstations at ATL that cannot economically support 50 seat RJ's or the larger ATR-72.

What's the market like for used SF3s? Could they pick some up?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4659 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9705 times:

The webcast used the term "optomization" among the owned regionals which is french for "dumped/consolidated"

My guess is we will see Mesa Chataqua and Comair go, the CR9s that Mesa was going to operate will probably end up at Compass or Pinnacle.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineATWZW170 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 904 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9662 times:

Mesaba operates the CRJ900's and will probably continue to do so for some time. If DL wanted to consolidate the DL Connection carriers there will be a number of losers.

Comair - high cost, DL has tried to sell them in the past
RHC - lets face it Compass does it better. RHC 50 and under seat flying will probably go away
Mesa - gone. CRJ900's transfered to Mesaba
Pinnacle - this is where it becomes unclear. Can Mesaba do it better? Can Skywest/ASA fill in the 50 seat gap? Does DL want to drop a majority of the 50 seat feed? Their future could be questionable.
Skywest/ASA - Can't be touched. Skywest made a good move with DL regarding their contract.
ExpressJet - easily can be replaced with Skywest but it's at risk flying - less of a liability for DL - however, for the sake of consolidation might not be a bad move to get rid of them.

Anything goes at this point. I tell my staff that we must be the best at cost, service, performance, and work smarter than the rest.

During the meeting today Anderson did say that he was "very please with XJ and CP operations..."

Bodes well for us!



Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7538 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9642 times:

I see DL getting rid of Freedom, Republic, and Express jet. Compass, mesaba, skywest/asa, and comair will remain, as will pinnacle. I doubt skywest will see much of any flying in the twin cities since 9E, XJ, and CZ have that welll covered already and skywest wouldn't bring any additional benefit to any of the Northwest hubs.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9592 times:

Delta:

Skywest - Kept as they are used for ATL, SLC and LAX

Comair - Gone from Delta once Delta closes CVG. You might see Comair try what Independence Air tried, make a low cost carrier. I am willing to bet they will be more successful because Indy Air still had United to compete with at IAD, Comair will now be the big carrier on the block when Delta leaves CVG. Besides, Comair wouldn't have any low cost competion there unless Southwest or Air Tran see the big gap Delta leaves behind and decide to move there.

Pinnacle- All Pinnacle operations by Delta will be replaced with Skywest/ASA operations and will be back at the "Northwest" hubs of DTW and MSP.

ASA - Doesn't Skywest own ASA now? ATL and JFK operations

Shuttle America - gotten rid of in favor of Compass, would end up with United most likely

Express Jet - Dropped, planes would either be independent Express Jet, or wind up with Continental/United if they were to merge

Chataqua - I get Chataqua and Freedom mixed up. One would remain with Delta, the other wouldn't. Would still use ERJs out of ATL, MCO and maybe move a few to DTW, MSP

Freedom - same as above

Northwest:

Pinnacle- Pinnacle operations stay at DTW, MSP, move out of MEM

Compass- perhaps merges with Shuttle America?

Mesaba- Not going ANYWHERE, they are still needed out of MSP and DTW for flights to Dakotas northern Minn from MSP, and to the U.P. of Michigan, and northern Lower Michigan aka Alpena from DTW where any RJ would be too big for that route.


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12981 posts, RR: 100
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9591 times:
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Regional flying was iffy at $70/bbl oil. At today's $113/bbl, it makes far less sense than when the ~2,000 RJ's were ordered. There will be massive consolidation in the 50-seat market. No two airlines had more 'low margin' overlap than DL and NW. Thus, its quite possible that they could cut 40% to 50% of their 50 seat flying!  wideeyed 

As others have noted, its very likely that some of that cut flying will be consolidated as 90 seaters serving one of the stronger hubs. So will it be CRJ900's or ERJ-175's?  box 

Quoting Apodino (Reply 13):
I think this is bad for the regional airline industry as a whole. What happens with such a merger is because of consolidation, demand for regional services goes down, because of overlap. Some regionals will lose flying because of this and then you have a bunch of regional airlines with a bunch of RJ's and no where to fly them. Its a case of lots of supply, but very little demand, and this will serve to push revenues at regionals down and in turn wages for pilots down even worse than they already are. And it will get even worse if a CO-UA merger is approved, in which case I see mesa losing even more flying, with the primary regional carriers being Chautaqua, Republic, SkyWest, and Expressjet.

High oil prices are worse for regionals. Or more precisely, the reason there must be a rapid reduction in service to align costs with revenue.  cry 

Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 16):
Comair - high cost, DL has tried to sell them in the past
RHC - lets face it Compass does it better. RHC 50 and under seat flying will probably go away
Mesa - gone. CRJ900's transfered to Mesaba
Pinnacle - this is where it becomes unclear. Can Mesaba do it better? Can Skywest/ASA fill in the 50 seat gap? Does DL want to drop a majority of the 50 seat feed? Their future could be questionable.
Skywest/ASA - Can't be touched. Skywest made a good move with DL regarding their contract.
ExpressJet - easily can be replaced with Skywest but it's at risk flying - less of a liability for DL - however, for the sake of consolidation might not be a bad move to get rid of them.

Nice summary. The amount of consolidation that must go on is... staggering.  Sad For DL/NW, its time for a massive reduction in RJ's and to upgauge where possible.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineDoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3402 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9534 times:



Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 18):
ASA - Doesn't Skywest own ASA now? ATL and JFK operations

Yes

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 18):
Skywest - Kept as they are used for ATL, SLC and LAX

They are really only used in SLC. The ATL operation is tiny and they haven't been awarding transfers to that domicile. Instead they've been paying to TDY people there to cover flying. This would indicate an attempt to shrink the base through attrition to minimize the costs when they have to close the base. The only DL Skywest flight in LAX is SLC. The LAX "hub" is an ExpressJet operation.

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 18):
Chataqua - I get Chataqua and Freedom mixed up. One would remain with Delta, the other wouldn't. Would still use ERJs out of ATL, MCO and maybe move a few to DTW, MSP

Freedom - same as above

Freedom= Mesa. Their ERJs are already on the way out, they also operate CRJ-900s out of JFK for DL.

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 18):
Shuttle America - gotten rid of in favor of Compass, would end up with United most likely

Compass- perhaps merges with Shuttle America?

A merger wouldn't be out of the question, the situation is almost identical to the Mid Atlantic - Republic situation 3 years ago. Either-way, I doubt you'll see Shuttle get the boot anytime soon.



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineATWZW170 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 904 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 9410 times:

If you watch the webcast Richard Anderson is very positive about Mesaba and Compass. Interesting that he also notes that there will be shuffling of flying to the wholly owned. I think Mesaba and Compass right sitting pretty right now. Comair, not so much. 50 seat jets will be grounded. Comair might remain, just a much smaller size.


Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3905 posts, RR: 28
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 9290 times:

Everyone is convinced the 50 seat a/c will go the way of the dodo bird. I disagree. There are indeed markets in the nation that a 50 seat is the only viable option. The thing that is killing DL with its 50 seat operation is that they fly that thing on competitive routes, point to point and other routes with low yield. The 50 seater at NWA is operated in a different manner... they operate in small markets where NWA is basically the only game in town and can afford to charge a premium to make the economics of the a/c work. Thus... the 50 seaters will not die. I do believe their numbers will dramatically DECREASE but won't be gone forever.

If you listen to the presentation... they mention that they want to rationalize the mainline fleet and better allocate capacity in certain markets. Some examples given were 319s in CVG, 744s to ATL and assuming the 763 to the DTW/MSP markets. Further, they mention that RJ flights would be UPGAUGED to 100 seat a/c... meaning the DC9 and its future replacement. I would expect city pairs like DTW-CVG and MSP-CVG which are operated with RJs at the moment will be the winner in such upgauging, not to mention the hundres of city pairs in the current DL network that need upgauging. When this shift happens, it will have a trickle affect.

They seem to love the economics and performance of Mesaba and Compass. They want to bring contract carrier margins in line with XJ/CP and I'm sure this means contract renegotiations with the likes of Pinnacle, Skywest/ASA and the rest of them. They want to shift flying to the wholly owned partners which does not discount Comair, people need to get off the Comair is dead bandwagon. MC Holdings is already working to realize synergies between Mesaba and Compass and will likely be the model of the future DCI.


User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9209 times:



Quoting Apodino (Reply 13):
MQ is fine because they are wholly owned by AA and AMR would like to keep it this
way.

Actually, AMR put Eagle up for sale a few months ago. If no buyer emerges, they will be spun off as a separate company from AA.

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 18):
You might see Comair try what Independence Air tried, make a low cost carrier.

Comair is a wholly owned subsidiary. Unless someone buys Comair, and agrees to least the aircraft from DL, highly unlikely.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22876 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9160 times:



Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 22):
Everyone is convinced the 50 seat a/c will go the way of the dodo bird. I disagree. There are indeed markets in the nation that a 50 seat is the only viable option. The thing that is killing DL with its 50 seat operation is that they fly that thing on competitive routes, point to point and other routes with low yield. The 50 seater at NWA is operated in a different manner... they operate in small markets where NWA is basically the only game in town and can afford to charge a premium to make the economics of the a/c work.

This is absolutely right, but part of that is that NW flies a lot of mainline aircraft on comparatively short routes. If NW had the hub at ATL, you likely would see a lot less EV flying to places like GSP or TYS. Has DL management gotten the message? It's hard to tell...

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 23):
Actually, AMR put Eagle up for sale a few months ago. If no buyer emerges, they will be spun off as a separate company from AA.

Source? I certainly haven't read any commitment by AMR to spin Eagle off.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
25 DTWAGENT : I can see them keeping Mesaba, Pinicel,Compus and Comair for now. If they sell off Comairl like they want to they would have to then bring on Freedom
26 NASCARAirforce : The CR9s at ATL are mainly Skywest correct? Although I did see a Comair one there. They have a couple flights daily between MCO and ATL with ERJ-145s
27 EssentialPowr : 50 seat RJs are the fast track to Chapt 11 when 50 seat turbo props burn 40% of the fuel and can fly the same stage lengths at lower altitudes at nea
28 Phelpsie87 : I guess for the most part. I never really did a count, but a quick look at the OO Flow Board for CR9s, looks like its about 50/50 between SLC and ATL
29 SafetyDemo : I thought the Pinnacle CR9s were based in ATL? -safetyDemo
30 Phelpsie87 : You know, I keep forgetting about them. Its hard to keep the eight DLC carriers straight. Well, add them on. I tried getting some info but Pinnacle's
31 SNCntry32 : PIT, IAH, HOU, St. Criox, umm there are a few more that I cant think of. I know that XJ and CP are safe per memos sent to them. What the future holds
32 NASCARAirforce : I agree with most of what you said, but how will turboprops ease congestion in NYC area? With exception of the Q400 and the ATR72, there aren't reall
33 WingnutMN : Anything behind a 747 needs 5 miles for wake turbulence. Actually a CRJ200 has a faster approach speed than most 737/MD80/DC9s. I'm not really that co
34 EssentialPowr : 1 Separation requirements b/t a 34-50-75 seat turboprop, RJ and 737 in any combination is the same. Any of these a/c must maintain the same separatio
35 Planemaker : The above will happen but the degree to which it will happen will depend upon DL/NW looking at their combined O/D data.
36 Doug_Or : They were initially ALL SkyWest (originally intended for ASA, they were transfered to OO to punish the ASA pilots for the ongoing contract negotiatio
37 XJET : We request 11/29 all the time from ATC in EWR. They won't let us use them. They won't use it in the evening because of the sun in the controller's ey
38 XJETFlyer : I think the good regionals will come out good on this.
39 WingnutMN : Does anyone know with real facts the economic difference on flight stage lengths between the E120 and the S340s? I wonder who really operates the best
40 DurangoMac : Considering that the EMB-120 is only flown for DL by OO it's hard to say but the EMB-120 is OO's most profitable aircraft mainly because most of the
41 PSU.DTW.SCE : Very hard to say. The block-hour rates I've seen XJ post on their Saabs seem rather low but I don't know if its an apples-to-apples comparison. Since
42 Cubsrule : Increasing the stage length as much as 200 miles in some cases isn't really feasible, though, even without a larger aircraft on the route.
43 Azjubilee : Consider however, XJ only serves a handful of destinations from MEM that aren't served from ATL. PAH, TUP, PIB, GLH come to mind... perhaps there are
44 Cubsrule : Let's look at the XJ destinations from MEM... I would argue that they fall into three categories: Cities which already see EV; many are arguably bett
45 KaiGywer : As many have said, I think we are pretty safe at XJ. Wonder what our Saabs will look like in Delta Connection colors though Anybody care to make a pho
46 Post contains links Aaway : Not actually a regional, but haven't seen any subsequent discussion from the now locked thread regarding YX: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...en
47 EssentialPowr : My response must have been deleted, but the large jet/turboprop mix works well. RJs are the misfit, and that is not intended as an insult.
48 Post contains links Toltommy : you are kidding, right? American Airlines plans sale of American Eagle regional carrier http://www.bostonherald.com/business/general/view.bg?articlei
49 TSRA : (I find it highly unlikely what I'm going to say but I wanted to throw it there for discussion) Would the new DL use YX's 717s for just that kind of
50 Mayor : Skywest told the airport authority at SUN that within 5 years, there would be no more Brasilia flying. SUN can't handle any RJ flying and even the Q4
51 NASCARAirforce : It doesn't make a difference in hourly capacity. I have the hourly capacity charts from my airport operations textbook from when I went to ERAU. Depe
52 Doug_Or : ?!?! OO does not operate a 60 airplane fleet to serve SGU a few times a day. OO operates the EMB because it is much more efficient on short routes th
53 Mayor : Say bye bye in about 5 years. I think what Skywest should do is replace the Brasilias AND the CRJ100/200 with the Q400.[Edited 2008-04-18 08:55:28]
54 JBo : Considering that NW previously held the 'golden share' in Continental, I really don't see how antitrust regulators would raise an eyebrow at a non-co
55 EssentialPowr : A texbook...that is clearly the most currrent data, then....
56 Goldenshield : EWR generally has mix issues even when it's well below capacity. 10-15 minutes holding and miles in trail is normal even on a good day.
57 KaiGywer : I believe we have 49 B+ models left
58 EssentialPowr : Dont know what a "mix issue" is, but with the RNAV arrivals holding has not been an issue on a good day (ie VFR, no gusty winds)...
59 Goldenshield : To put it simply, when too many planes arrive on one arrival over another, they have to either 1) vector everyone to get a proper flow, or 2) hold ba
60 WorldTraveler : Neither DL or NW are permitted by their ALPA contracts to have contract carriers operate 90 seat aircraft. OO also serves unique destinations with li
61 Doug_Or : I agree they'll be gone or mostly gone in 5 years.... but.... I don't see the logic of replacing a 28 seater with a 74 seater. There are probably CR2
62 GoBoeing : Throw all of that out the window. EWR is usually limited to 34-40 arrivals per hour and the limiting factor is NY TRACON and not Newark tower. The ma
63 DeltaL1011man : Then who will fill in JFK? OH largest bases are CVG and JFK. Now with Mesa gone I think OH will pick up Freedoms old ERJ routes. 9E
64 Mayor : One of their smallest markets is SLC-SUN, which has about 10 flights a day with 120's. Wouldn't it save them more money to cut the number of flights
65 NASCARAirforce : The charts used are on the FAA website when you look under the airport planning areas of it. They have not changed in the past few years for IFR and
66 SNCntry32 : Indeed they have. I belived impressed is more like the word with the cost structure and economics of XJ, OO and CP.
67 KaiGywer : I'm not sure, but we had A, B and B+. Now there's only B+ left.
68 WorldTraveler : except that DL doesn't allow OO to operate anything larger than the 120 under the DL code without DL controlling the revenue etc.[Edited 2008-04-19 1
69 FlyASAGuy2005 : Anyw whom are the good regionals?
70 Mayor : So, basically, according to that, SUN is screwed as far as service because, as I've said, Skywest has already told SUN that there will be no more Bra
71 Caspian27 : The Brasilia seats 30.
72 Doug_Or : 10 flights a day would make it one of the biggest markets for the EMB. I know SAN-LAX used to have more, but does any city pair have more EMB-120 fli
73 Caspian27 : I don't disagree with you about the fact that it gets weight restricted. Heck, when the Bro was still in DEN I could never get to the west slope beca
74 Doug_Or : Fair enough, but the number of seats doesn't really matter, the number of passengers it can carry does. The EMB-120 can usually carry about 28. The DH
75 Goldenshield : If not for the Air Midwest crash, the Bro would still be carrying 30 and a jumpseater (although, I'm sure that the FAA would've wised up eventually i
76 ShannoninAMA : Big Gap? With SX gone too, I'd call it a gaping hole. Thats almost a given that airlines will increase service after something like that occurs. I'm
77 PSU.DTW.SCE : Mesaba's Saab fleet hit a maximum between 1998-2001 of about 75 aircraft. In total, XJ had about 110 aircraft between the SF3 and ARJ. As leases expi
78 Milesrich : Comair is 100% owned by Delta. They have been trying to sell it since before the Chapter 11 was filed, with no success, so the idea that Comair will
79 EssentialPowr : I hate to tell you, but the scenario is much more complex. The FAA has asked the airlines to "depeak" certain times at NYC airports, and that has mad
80 EssentialPowr : So 45 zebulons = 2.33 utotems. If you have flown, dispatched, or controlled a/c in to or out of the NYC area, you would understand the airspace a bit
81 NASCARAirforce : Big gap is an understatement hehe When I was at CVG during the hour I watched from the spotters hill last March I think I saw one Northwest Airline C
82 Cubsrule : UA flies mainline to ORD and CR7s to both IAD and DEN.
83 EssentialPowr : That description is not even close; how can you comment on something when you don't really even know what the scenario is in terms of a/c types?
84 NASCARAirforce : True, I have seen the UA CR7s. Last year I seen American Eagle using a CR7 there also. I wasn't aware however that United flew mainline to CVG from O
85 Cubsrule : Looks like it's 4x CR7, and 1x each 735, 733, and 319 now, but it has varied a fair amount over the past couple of years.
86 EssentialPowr : So your opinion is based on the above observation, and 3 pages from a text written 5 years ago? Do you understand that you may not be the most inform
87 Doug_Or : Colgan operates 340s out of IAH, and I believe regions used to operate some out of CLE. Commutair now operates ex-QX DHC-8-200s out of CLE. Don't kno
88 Phelpsie87 : EssentialPowr is saying that COEx never had 340's. Colgan may have them, but they fly under CO Connection.
89 EssentialPowr : Thank you. Ahhh, the nuances of this industry...
90 DeltaL1011man : DL said (right after they started talking to NW and UA) OH is NOT for sale.
91 Chi-town : Can I expect any changes at BMI?
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