Moderators From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 459 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 29275 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
The news of the pending DL/NW merger has spawned many threads covering very detailed aspects of the transaction, and many forms of speculation. In the interest of keeping the forum organized and the discussions more cohesive, please add your posts in one of the 'official' threads on the subject. You will find them in the forum index with the following titles:
- Official DL/NW Merger: Impact on Fleets & Routes
- Official DL/NW Merger: Impact on Employees
- Official DL/NW Merger: Impact on Regionals
- Official DL/NW Merger: Impact on Alliances
- Official DL/NW Merger: Impact on Airports
Please discuss Impact on Fleets & Routes in this thread.
Quite a few threads will be locked (rather than being deleted) as they may duplicate the intent of these official threads.
Please use moderators@airliners.net to contact us.
Scipio From Belgium, joined Oct 2007, 590 posts, RR: 6 Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 29243 times:
Ok. Let's start all over again after this technical hiccup
-----------------------------------
We have a loyal Boeing customer merging with one of Airbus' best US customers. Which way will this go?
If Delta's management dominates, they may well stick to the gentlemen's agreement with Boeing and order Boeing only going forward. The legacy Airbus fleet could then gradually disappear.
If NWA's management is influential, the door may remain open for Airbus.
Or, perhaps, given that Boeing no longer is as dominant in aircraft manufacturing as at the time when Delta opted for an all-Boeing fleet and that Boeing no longer offers a full range of state-of-the-art products, Delta managers may decide that this is as good an opportunity as any to get out of the understandings with Boeing.
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 29021 times:
I'm pretty certain that they need both, for the moment.
Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 6798 posts, RR: 5 Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 28902 times:
The Dc 9s will go (sadly as I am a huge fan of T-Tail, rear engine aircraft and the airports are now dominated by A320/737NGs and EJet) and I also believe the MD 80/90s won´t stay very long.
Some 757s will go, too, they will have a huge 757 fleet and I can not imagine that all 757s will be needed, so they will sell them as long as they get a good price for them. They are in high demand so DL/NW won´t have any problems. I also expect some older 767s to leave the fleet as the new airline will have a huge longhaul fleet of 747/777/767/A330 and 757W.
Maybe some 747s will be converted to freighters and 777s will be used instead. The A330 will be kept and mainly used on the Atlantic routes (LHR, FRA, CDG, AMS), A332 will likely serve the Pacific routes with the 777.
757-300 are a good workhorse, too, and likely be kept, too.
Some of NWs A320s are also very old, I expect them to be retired soon. Interesting is if the order for the 737-700 will be converted into 737-800 as they have a huge A319 fleet now. They could replace some older A320 with 737-800 as they are about the same size and keep the newer A320 and A319s.
Interesting is what the new airline will order in the future, they are the new "Pan Am" and could use some aircraft above the 777-200.
747-8I/Fs are a possibility and Boeing would give them a good deal on them for sure. I don´think they would order the A380. The big advantage of the 747 is that it comes as a freighter and that it holds more cargo. I doubt that DL/NW will be competing with SQ and their first class suites so they don´t need the bigger fuselage of the A380.
The 787 order will be kept and will replace the 767s and A330s in the long term maybe some A350-900 and -1000s will replace the 777-200ER and part of the 747s in the future.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
Haggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 28530 times:
hmm... what may be interesting to see if they move SLC-CDG to a 332 (if that route stays, that is). I heard the 763ER might have problems with hot-and-high performance, whereas the 332 might be better off. Besides, the 332 is much more comfortable in Y (at least with the current interior of the respective aircrafts), so it might be better suited for an interhub route...?
Heavierthanair From Switzerland, joined Oct 2000, 634 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 28431 times:
G'day
With the A 320 joining the fleet Delta finally gets an aircraft that fully meets the extensive specification Delta have written up in the late eighties for a single aisle aircraft to replace the Boeing 727 and meeting their future needs. Delta chose the MD 80, then the MD 88 and finally the MD 90, none of which really came close to the specification.
With a slight delay of some 30 years they get what they wanted, but it is better being late than never.
Cheers
Peter
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879
QFA380 From Australia, joined Jul 2005, 2029 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 28182 times:
Quoting Columba (Reply 6): The Dc 9s will go (sadly as I am a huge fan of T-Tail, rear engine aircraft and the airports are now dominated by A320/737NGs and EJet) and I also believe the MD 80/90s won´t stay very long.
This will be sad, I would have really loved to go on a NW DC-9.
Will they be replaced by 737s or A320s? Which fleet is smaller/closer to retirement out of NW's and DL's?
How long until Delta takes up a 'normal' fleet, ie not having competeing aircraft in the fleet?
Atlantaflyboy From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 73 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 28144 times:
I am wondering what will happen to all the US based non-hub international flying that NWA currently does - SEA/PDX - NRT, EWR/BDL-AMS, etc? Will these US to Foreign Hub (AMS, NRT) flights be retained or will the aircraft quickly be reshuffled to focus on the major US hubs and provide further international growth from the fortresses in ATL, DTW and NYC instead? Also could this help begin DL's long anticipated international push in LAX?
To me it would seem to make sense to trim AMS and NRT flying from oddball cities (the NW approach) and focus instead on buttressing the US Hub to foreign destination flying (the DL Approach). Sure could help to free up some A330's, 747's and 757's to fuel growth until a large # of 787's get online.
NW7E7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 532 posts, RR: 5 Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 27907 times:
Start ordering more PAINT!! R.I.P. NW
I wonder how good the acft would look if you swapped the red and blue colors on the current DL c/s. That way we would still have the red tails!
Vfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3593 posts, RR: 5 Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 27875 times:
To what extent do DL and NW have overlapping international routes that will need to be reviewed?
One destination that comes to my mind is DUS form where DL serves Atlanta and NW serves Detroit. Most of the traffic, I presume, is connecting traffic, so to some extent these flights compete with each other given the relatively small size of the market on the German end.
Skymiler From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 469 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 27815 times:
Quoting Heavierthanair (Reply 9): With the A 320 joining the fleet Delta finally gets an aircraft that fully meets the extensive specification Delta have written up in the late eighties for a single aisle aircraft to replace the Boeing 727 and meeting their future needs. Delta chose the MD 80, then the MD 88 and finally the MD 90, none of which really came close to the specification.
This was known as the "Delta 150"
Does anybody have a copy of or a synopsis of that specification?
FlyguyPBI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 27648 times:
Well, after observing the Western Merge and the Pan Am "merge" talk about how the fleet gets redeployed is a hot topic in the crew rooms.
753: Florida.. here they come! No brainer here
MD90: Safe and will stay. Small fleet but very specific needs and uses.
73G : Coin toss. The A319 can do the runs that we are buying the NG's for. Maybe convert the 73G orders to 738?
744: Maybe deploy that to J-erg. Loads have been great and the 764 could go elsewhere on Transatlantic. ( personal note: Cannot WAIT to bid a trip on that bird....)
DC9: They'll go quickly.
752 : I think we will keep the majority of both fleets. Look at the new life and uses these birds have found in the last 3 years.
763: Domestic. We'll see these back on routes where they were pulled from before.
And one last prediction : Now that this merger is happening....... the combined carrier now has the equipment to start service into Sydney. It will happen, just a matter of where and with what equipment.
JFK787NYC From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 808 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 27519 times:
Quoting Atlantaflyboy (Reply 11): am wondering what will happen to all the US based non-hub international flying that NWA currently does - SEA/PDX - NRT, EWR/BDL-AMS, etc? Will these US to Foreign Hub (AMS, NRT) flights be retained or will the aircraft quickly be reshuffled to focus on the major US hubs and provide further international growth from the fortresses in ATL, DTW and NYC instead? Also could this help begin DL's long anticipated international push in LAX?
To me it would seem to make sense to trim AMS and NRT flying from oddball cities (the NW approach) and focus instead on buttressing the US Hub to foreign destination flying (the DL Approach). Sure could help to free up some A330's, 747's and 757's to fuel growth until a large # of 787's get online.
Delta will not trim down AMS. and 100% not NRT. This deal makes sense because of NWA's presence in Far East.
NWA Current non-stops to AMS will stay as a hub point in Europe
DL Current non-stops to CDG will stay as a hub point in Europe
NRT will receive service from JFK.
This deal gives a huge boost to AF-KLM as well SKYTEAM will turn out to be the most effective alliance in the world.
SEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6258 posts, RR: 39 Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 27374 times:
As to the A vs B issue, I suspect that since Delta is in charge the preference for Boeing will remain. There will be no big rush to get rid of Airbus planes, and any contracts for Airbus planes will probably be kept. The A330's will stay but new planes in that size will most likely be 787's. The main question is what will happen with the A320's. I suspect that they will take the 737's on order (perhaps changing the73G's to 738's) but not order any new planes until the 737RS is available, and retiring the oldest and least efficient planes in the fleet, as I suspect the combined fleet will have more NB's than they need. Much as I hate to say it, that probably means sayonara to the DC-9's (I never thought I'd have to say that.) So for a while going forward they will be flying A320's, MD-80's, 737's and 757's. Down the road the MD-80's and A320's will probably be replaced by 737RS's. There is a chance that, with all the trouble Boeing is having with the 787 that the A320RS will beat the 737RS, in which case the game may change, but I doubt it.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
TK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4106 posts, RR: 13 Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 27353 times:
It all looks very complicated for the near future.
I would love DL to keep ordering Boeing but in the mean time what are the chances of getting 330 on the JFK-IST route, at least in summers?
Asiaflyer From Singapore, joined May 2007, 1019 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 27233 times:
Quoting Scipio (Reply 2): If Delta's management dominates, they may well stick to the gentlemen's agreement with Boeing
Quoting Scipio (Reply 2): If NWA's management is influential, the door may remain open for Airbus.
And if they are rational and uses alot of common sense they will choose the aircraft that is best for it's mission.
The main reason for the whole merger is to benefit from synergies and to eliminate redundancies.
In order to do this, the new Delta needs to get rid of quite a few aircrafts.
Where they have two overlapping aircrafts, the under-performing model has to go.
In this case the DC9 and MD 80 are the narrowbodies that has to go, while among widebodies the 767s and 744s has go to for leaving A330, 787's and 777's in the new fleet.
This will leave Delta with maximum fuel efficient fleet, which will be the only way to survive in the long run.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26717 posts, RR: 83 Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 27095 times:
While DL now has a very varied fleet, it has a very flexible one, as well. The A330 fleet offers opportunities the 767 didn't and it will serve as a nice bridge until the 787s start to arrive.
I do expect DL to stay with the 787, since NW had chosen it as an eventual A330 replacement and it makes sense as a 767 replacement for DL. I also believe that DL will continue to order 777-200LRs as opposed to moving to the A350. NW's pilot's contract includes the 777, so there should be no problem there.
VLAs could be interesting. With a merged entity and the likely tie-up with AF/KL, the A380-800 starts to have relevance for service to AMS, CDG and NRT. And this should force ATL's hand to adapt itself to handle the plane. On the flip side, the 747-8I and 777-300ER would work, as well, and they can let AF (and KL?) handle the "heavy lifting" from the US hubs to CDG and AMS with their A380-800s.
As to narrowbodies, DL will likely try and hold off on large purchases until the next-generation models become available.
BrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3807 posts, RR: 10 Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 27055 times:
I think not much will change in the medium term, but some fleet assignments might change a bit. I can see some 330s going on the longer European routes with the displaced 767s replacing those aircraft out of AMS over the Atlantic. I think most would accept that this is a given.
I think the DC-9 and MD-80 will take the brunt of the NB fleet reductions, but I dont know that they would go as quickly as some say. These aircraft make money for NW right now and there are few readily available options in the size class unless DL reduces frequencies on DC-9 routes.
In the long term I think the remainder of the MD-80s the 737s and the 320s will all be replaced by a new narrowbody, from Boeing or Airbus, at the lower end the C-series is also in with a shout, I would have thought.
Just my thoughts;
Brian.
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
Isitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 26 Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 27010 times:
On CNBC this morning Richie and Dougie mentioned there is overlapping on only 12 routes by the two carriers.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
GSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2745 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 26897 times:
Quoting Atlantaflyboy (Reply 11): To me it would seem to make sense to trim AMS and NRT flying from oddball cities (the NW approach) and focus instead on buttressing the US Hub to foreign destination flying (the DL Approach).
Remember, we've got Open Skies now, so these "oddball" routes might become the norm.
Finally made it to an airline mecca!
25 Jfk777: The first thing I would do is replace the Delta 777 used from TLV to Atlanta with an NW A332. The 744 will be replaced new 748 or 77W's. NW A332 will
26 BWI757: Let's not forget that ANOTHER livery will probably be developed at some point. That leaves us with a fleet of: 1) Bowling shoe 2) Silver red 3) Widget
27 Phollingsworth: The A388 is probably not in the cards for the new DL, especially on anything over the Atlantic. You will see AF A388s in JFK, but there is not good r
28 QantasHeavy: Maybe now DL will be able to make Asia work; NW has for years. Will be an interesting fleet, lots of variety. Will be a shame to see NW's livery go aw
29 DiscoverCSG: The A330's are new, good planes, and NW owns a substantial number of them. I don't see DL selling them just to clean up the fleet sheet, at least not
30 United_Fan: A DL A330 and 744 would sure look nice
32 Tsnamm: Was wondering what the impact of this merger will be on NW Cargo operation. As NW is the only US Passenger carrier to operate a fleet of freighters, w
33 Isitsafenow: Just point the widget to the northwest and I'll be happy as hell! Its a symbolic thing, folks safe
34 B747forever: Wow, that looks brilliant. Think that all looks nice in DLs livery, besides the 744.
35 Hiflyer: It appears that the timeline is about 6 months for the financial side merged but a year more to get the certificates and all done...which means late 2
36 B747forever: Argh, I hate when things take so long time. Cant they just fix it this year
37 Bigbird: All of you remember this. None of this will take place without Mr. Bush s approval and that without any pilot s agreement all you that you are going t
38 ORDagent: I can just about bet you that both Airbus and Boeing are a bit nervous about the merger. Not only will they both have to re pitch product and since th
39 PPVRA: With the delay on the 787s, they might be able to pick up good deals on a few 777s or maybe even 737NGs. . .
40 Jacobin777: I agree... It will be a shame to see those beauties go....
41 WingnutMN: Lets not forget that Richard Anderson was the CEO at NW when all of the A330's and more 320's were ordered at NW. I'm pretty sure that NW chose the 33
42 Chris133: Does anyone see them closing the Hub in MEM and re-starting a Hub or at least a larger operation at DFW?
43 Airbazar: And replace them with what? I don't think for second that the frequencies to AMS or NRT will be eliminated. They would be mad to do that. And DL does
44 SPREE34: DING! It's just that simple. The machine has to maximize revenue. The hood ornament is irrelevant.
45 USAirALB: Will DL install IFE on the NWA domestic equip.?
46 SlcDeltaRUmd11: DL will never to put a 747 on JFK-LHR the 767s are practically empty on one flight a day and not the that amazing on the other. The market has lots of
47 YWG747: I was wonder how many routes they over lapped. With it only being 12 I dont see allot of fleet personnel decreases. I am sure some of the old planes
48 NYC777: Once the merger is done I could see DL exercising the 50 787 options that NW will bring with it and then add more options to cover the 767/A330 segmen
49 USAirALB: Its a maybe Does anyone know when DL will announce the livery?
50 Dl767captain: This is going to be an extremely diverse fleet that will remain that way for a while. The only common jet is the 757 and they dont even have the same
51 Ikramerica: Here's how I see it assuming the merger goes through: -DL will continue to receive 77Ls and will order 77Ws to replace 744s -787s will remain on order
52 B747forever: Brilliant list Ikramercia. But it will take so many years before it will look like that.
53 WorldTraveler: This is a great day for DL and NW; as I have repeatedly said, this is a merger of addition, not subtraction. Neither airline would have been able to d
54 1337Delta764: I highly doubt it. That was one of the reasons why Delta went into bankruptcy. Yes, Florida used to be a big money maker for Delta, but things change
55 YULWinterSkies: Future fleet : longhaul : 763ER/764, 330 (of course they will stay, they are the newest and most modern besides the few 77Ls for DL), 772ER/LR (additi
56 Ikramerica: Too true. Though I think it will be faster for the 744 and DC9 retirements. DL already has 777 orders and options and could have 77Ws rather quickly.
57 Rwy04LGA: Says who? You? That's your opinion and not fact.
58 PPVRA: That would be AMAZING! I've thought about maybe the A333s to GRU. I don't really see the 747s leaving the Asian market.[Edited 2008-04-15 08:20:08]
59 VonRichtofen: Indeed, one of the best liveries out there by far. What kind of total fleet numbers will we see with the two airlines merged? That'll probably be the
60 B747forever: That would just be amazing. DL ordering the 748s will probably never happen.
61 Isitsafenow: According to the two CEO's, the 744's will be kept and some moved, perhaps to ATL and DL has a serious interest in the 777LR. The new DL will be the
62 Incitatus: The 744s will be gone before long. And... do you believe him?
63 FlyingDoctorWu: Nice list... I think the 787 will be the futuer of the company. DL gains access to a great NW asset- the 18 firm orders and 50 options NW has for the
64 EXAAUADL: I think they be around for at least one more year That is a garbage point. They compoete in 100s of citypairs Is it profitable, It might be spun off.
65 Heathrow: would DL keep the 744's, or do you think they'd go the way of AA with TWA?
66 Misbeehavin: Hmm... I could get only 11: ATL-MEM ATL-DTW ATL-MSP CVG-DTW CVG-MSP SLC-MSP SLC-DTW JFK-DTW JFK-MSP LAX-HNL LAX-LAS ANy idea what the 12th would be?
67 NASCARAirforce: In my oppinion I think you will see the two carriers operate as seperate entities for a while - sort of like KLM and Air France because it is going to
68 Aircellist: So. Finally, we know the answer about the famous "When will NW retire it's DC-9?" question: Never, because NW will cease to exist before retiring them
69 Shankly: It is well recorded that Delta did not have a happy time with its inherited A310's However, the A319, A332 and A333 are brilliantly capable aircraft i
70 Dalb777: Both DL and NW use PW on their 757s...but are there different versions of the engine?
71 Ikramerica: Kept until they are replaced. As launch customer, they fly some of the oldest 744s out there. With the new J product of DL, they will not hold the 40
72 Mayor: I wondered about that, myself. With DL's newfound interest in cargo, it might be beneficial for them to have a ready made cargo operation.
73 MBJ2000: Exactly what I was thinking! People "over there" esp. the Deltoids can't accept the fact that nobody knows Delta in Europe, whereas Northwest is a wh
74 EXAAUADL: [quote=Mayor,reply=72]I wondered about that, myself. With DL's newfound interest in cargo, it might be beneficial for them to have a ready made cargo
75 Beertrucker: Does anyone else think it is funny that people are more worried about the livery and if it will change and or which one will be used over what the act
76 Scipio: Now that this is a much bigger airline, with a consolidated network and fewer but larger hubs, shouldn't we expect the average aircraft size to increa
77 TN757Flyer: This topic has it's own thread. So do all airlines. If this is a show-stopper for mergers, then none would be approved, ever.
78 ETA Unknown: DL CEO was on some morning fluff television news show this morning mouthing off how great this merger will be as it'll be the first time a US airline
79 EXAAUADL: more likely he doesnt know Australia is a continent
80 Columba: That would be nice maybe even some A350s as they are bigger as the 787. Guess that, too, that is what they were bought for and the A330 can do the jo
81 Mayor: Or he knows something we don't and it was his subconcious talking?
82 Columba: I wonder what John Leahy thinks of this merger: Either a "great opportunity to sell new A320s, A330s, A350s and A380s" or "ohhh sh+t, there goes one o
84 Pilotboi: Why are you so sure that a new livery will be used? It's been clearly stated that the new airline will be Delta, and only Delta. And they've just spe
85 AutoThrust: I guess rather the latter, with DL's gentleman agreement. And it seems DL Board is the leader.
86 Ikramerica: Don't expect that. 777s will be with DL for quite a while, so they won't have any reservations about ordering 777s for delivery up through 2015. Just
87 Lexy: I would have to agree with this 100%. There is no point in spending money AGAIN to change the livery of Delta. That's just pointless and it's equally
88 AirFrnt: They would be idiots to do this. Hubs make money. Hubs need a certain amount of critical mass to be really efficient. Consolidating to AMS or CDG wou
89 1337Delta764: As I stated, the 767-400ERs will NOT be moved back to domestic. There is way too much domestic capacity with the combined fleet of Delta's domestic 7
90 Ikramerica: Well, NW only has seven remaining Airbus orders anyway, all A320 series. Other than 787s where the slots they have are as valuable as taking the plan
91 SPREE34: 330s already being used to EU. They don't have enough 330s available, or on order to replace the 764s. The 764s will keep at what they are doing is m
92 Ikramerica: Rechecking the NW 744 fleet, there are 10 that are 18-19 years old, and 6 that are 7-9 years old. What that means to me is that the 6 newer ones can r
93 Shankly: AirFNT, going beyond these hubs into Europe would be akin to stepping up over a WW1 trench and facing several machine gun posts manned by Ryanair, Ai
94 Bmacleod: Well finally the DC-9s are goners!!! A330s are safe until the 787s arrive. A320s - not sure what DL will do. 744s - are big money-makers on the Asian
96 1337Delta764: Please read my posts why I would disagree. As I have stated several times, none of Delta's transatlantic routes on 767-400ERs would benefit from the
97 Incitatus: It is unlikely they would keep only 6 744s. Also, it is unlikely they will keep 744s just because of DTW-NRT.
99 IcelandairMSP: If Anderson says the 744s could be used on some of Delta's routes, where my they be pulled off of? All MSP-NRT, DTW-NRT, DTW-KIX, DTW-NGO do incredibl
100 Ikramerica: Pretty awesome tail! I would just want to bring the widget in so it isn't cut off (as i don't like that on the current DL scheme.) As for the body, I
101 1337Delta764: BTW, here is a list of Delta's transatlantic 767-400ER routes for this summer: ATL-LGW ATL-FRA ATL-CDG ATL-AMS ATL-MUC ATL-MXP ATL-MAD ATL-DUB ATL-SVO
102 FlyDreamliner: ATL-DKR-JNB could DEFINITELY benefit from A330's cargo capacity, as they've had to send the 777 there to pick up backlogged luggage. DL could replace
103 Haggis79: afaik this one is down to a 763ER for the summer....
104 1337Delta764: I actually think that JFK-TLV is a good A330 route. The route can benefit from cargo. Also, many have complained about the lack of PTVs on that route
105 CV880: The remaining domestic 764's should be converted to international configuration, and a few 763-ER's returned to domestic long haul routes (ATL/JFK/DT
106 Ikramerica: I have a modified version of this, but not sure I can post it due to the copyright claims. But I think I can, because I think the copyright claims on
107 Deltal1011man: the A32S are older than DL's 737NGs.....But my guess is E90s or the new CRJ Ok then what A332 routes get dropped? If Boeing offers Delta a really goo
109 USAirALB: remember when DL used to have 764 flights to LGA? I cannot believe they dont have them anymore to MCO.
110 A342: Why should these routes NOT benefit from the A330's cargo capacity? Also, a 764ER can't make MUC-ATL with a full belly, the A332 would be useful here
111 Ikramerica: If none of those routes benefitted, then the 767 would be selling well and the A330 wouldn't be. But you and I know that isn't the case. One reason f
112 1337Delta764: Do you have any data for this? I haven't heard anything about cargo issues with Delta's 767-400ERs. CO has been using their 767-400ERs on internation
113 Jfk777: WHY ? 767 & 777 have been widely used in Europe and are familiar to crews & mechanics at most European airports. 744 to Asia, only because that is wh
114 1337Delta764: Also, if you split Northwest's A330 fleet between the A330-200 and A330-300, Northwest only operates 11 A330-200s vs Delta's 21 767-400ERs. The A330-3
115 Stitch: But the A330-300 is likely more efficient on ex-ATL/JFK TATL missions then a 772/77E so that might support higher traffic even with lower fares.
116 AirFrnt: In the famous WW1 line - "The Americans are coming." In fact, I would say that the biggest looser in all of these mergers are the European and Asian
117 1337Delta764: Still, the 767-400ER has lower fuel burn on these routes. I don't see why would any of these routes warrant a larger aircraft.
118 Columba: I don´t think they brought with Airbus, they choose the better aircraft at that time, also Airbus could not guarantee them a common type rating with
119 Ikramerica: It's still not what I was thinking, but it's a stab at altering the concept. We are now talking about the largest airline in the world, not DL or NW i
120 A342: It is not a real problem, but as you say, it means you can carry less cargo. Cargo is VERY important nowadays. Also, the airlines have voted with the
121 1337Delta764: Why do people even think Delta will bring the 767-400ERs back to domestic routes? The non-ER 767-300s and the 757-300s cover this void in well. There
122 Cageyjames: I'm pretty sure the A330 vs B764ER argument is the least of DL/NW's worry after the merger.
123 Columba: For DL longhaul fleet I guess it will come out like this: 767-300ER and the A330-300 will be the backbone of the transatlantic fleet together with so
124 1337Delta764: Why are so many users here trying to defend the A330? There is a huge difference in capacity between the 767-300ER and the A330-300, and that intermed
125 IAD787: These are two collosally incompatible fleets at the mainline level. Take a look at both fleets together. I put this together last night for the blog a
126 WingnutMN: How can a 220 seat 787 replace a 298 seat A333? On some routes, where it would be a 243 seat A332 you may get away with a sub like that, but never on
127 1337Delta764: Actually, I would somewhat agree with you. The older 767-300ERs are more likely to be retired before the 767-400ERs. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised
128 EXAAUADL: possible but without a partner in Oz to connect to MEL and BNE, it will be tough
129 Dc863: I have a feeling the Airbus aircraft will go. The 744s will follow. The MD80s will be replaced with more 73NG's and more 777LR's will update the long
130 WingnutMN: NW cargo isn't worth what it use to be. No DHL contract means that they don't have enough demand for the current aircraft they have. Why would FedEx,
131 Bobnwa: It was an all stock deal with zero cash. No US carrier will fly "finger " routes in Europe, as their Europpen partners AF/KL can do it better.
132 Mayor: I'm not sure about that. It seems that Delta has discovered that cargo can be a money maker and having a ready made cargo operation (especially to an
134 Ikramerica: Why is everyone forgetting that NW already has existing traffic? (well not everyone, but a lot of people). The 753s can't "cover" the domestic for DL
135 Hjulicher: I've restrained myself from posting because of the merger, but this was exactly what i was afraid will happen. To me, NW has a really good TATL produ
136 SXDFC: I was saying to my self, when the E-190 was going to join the DL fleet, as it seems like it would be a good fit according to the post above. As much a
137 Steeler83: If CVG and MEM both disappear as hubs, will CVG and MEM-PIT still remain or would NW/DL drop those routes? I think I asked this in another thread, so
138 1337Delta764: I see your point, but I would think that Delta would instead convert some 767-300ERs to domestic use to replace the non-ER 767-300s. Also, the fact t
139 CV880: As I said in reply #105.....plus the fact the the 764 has too many quirks in weight/balance for fully loaded longhaul traffic, and that the 763ER in
140 DeltaL1011man: Don't worry the 764s won't go anywhere. They will stay just where they are. The A332s will stay just where they are. Anet forget is you take a plane
141 AirbusA6: " target=_blank>http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl....html That is one spectacularly diversified fleet! It's not easy to make quick 'cuts' either,
142 KochamLOT: I agree! Althogh Im born american and love boeing, the economics for transatlantic flights seems the best from the a330-300 especially. The 777s for
143 Cageyjames: Those 77Es are going nowhere. I'm pretty sure there won't be much expansion in the near term. You'll see routes that both serve being consolidated an
144 IronDuke08: That's what I was thinking. The real question is going to be how effectively the combined entity can actually redeploy aircraft on routes. I know eve
145 Dc863: Using what aircraft? They certainly won't keep any 747s let alone the 747-200F. The only cargo will be limited to certain belly space in the 777LR's.
146 Phollingsworth: This assumes that there would be no capacity adjustment. The problem is there has to be in order to justify the merger. Some routes, especially those
147 Dc863: There's no chance that DA is keeping any Airbus/747 aircraft after the merger. Within 2 years of the final merger all A320/19/330 and 744/742 will off
148 Reltney: This is easy.. Boeing financed the buy out (I know you read merger with the press but as you airline employees know, the press is always wrong and mi
149 Mayor: And replaced with what? How soon do those 787's come on line? Certainly more than two years at the rate that Boeing is going. I agree that the Airbus
150 TN757Flyer: What exactly, within a span of 2 years, do you expect them to replace all these a/c with? It's not like they are going to go out on a buying spree th
151 Dc863: MD-80s will stay. More 737-800s will be added. If I were a NW Airbus pilot/747 pilot I'd be looking for a new job soon or hopefully hold out that DA
152 Mayor: All your replies about this seem a little bitter towards Delta. Did something like this happen to you?
153 NYCAA: Hopefully hold out that DL might just retrain you? That is not how it works. If and when a seniority agreement is reached, its all about seniority. I
154 Flavio340: What is the status of the five additional MD-90's joining the fleet?
155 Dc863: No I'm not bitter towards Delta although I know some PA crews were after their merger with Delta. Airline mergers have a way of making one side look
157 Ikramerica: What an airline does before it announces a merger has little bearing on what it does 2 years after a merger. Nor would I think they would. I said the
159 NYCAA: How will a NW pilot who flew the 80 years ago be lucky? and what is a refresher course? If the DC-9 is grounded, the current cockpit crews flying tha
160 FX1816: I don't think that you understand what was meant by 12 city pairs, these are routes such as MSP-ATL or ATL-MEM that both share. Yes they fly to many
161 WESTERN737800: I think DL & NW should bring back the 727s to help with the fleet commonitly issues.
162 1337Delta764: Also, the non-ER 767-300 fleet isn't as old as many people think. In fact, Delta's newest non-ER 767-300 (N144DA) was delivered in 1999. Delta's oldes
163 FX1816: Really??? I don't think you know anything about the airline industry then. That is a much better scenario for maintenance I mean think about it say a
164 Dc863: I know about seniority and how it's the lifeblood of a pilot's career. When you join a major, you hopefully are with them for life. But what happens
165 TN757Flyer: You're talking about the replacement of over 100 narrow bodies alone. Do you think those 738's are just magically going to appear? How is DL going to
166 WESTERN737800: I'm sure when you have a NW & a DL pilot in the same cockpit there might be some friction. I'm sure that crews from both sides will professional to n
167 FLALEFTY: Good point! It will be interesting to see how the combined seniority list eventually gets worked out. Will a DL 777 captain bump a NW 744 captain whe
168 Dc863: Calgon take me away!!!! No but any used one's will be taken up pronto. Look when it comes to the NW Airbus/747 fleet it's days are numbered whether t
169 Nwaramper: Will the new Delta refurbish the interiors of the Northwest fleet 757/320/319 with on demand video systems?
170 Meta: For the 757 it depends because if they continue to fly the same routes then there becomes a weight issue. I remembering reading in another thread her
171 1337Delta764: Probably not the entire fleet, but maybe some aircraft. I think that the 757-300s will most likely get PTVs with AVOD and live satellite TV. NW's int
172 Bravo1Six: While this is all very interesting, presumably the various lessors of the aircraft that everyone is convinced will immediately be gone upon completion
173 Nwaramper: Northwest's 757 fleet still has all the wiring in place so Delta could just add the flat LCD screens and digital player back into their original plac
174 Phileet92: The NW domestic a/c could really use some touch ups like AVOD and newer seats, possibly the Recaro seats used on delta's newer international 757s? How
175 Jacobin777: ...something of interest... ..fair use excerpt: " April 15 (Bloomberg) -- Boeing Co. may benefit from the merger between Delta Air Lines Inc. and Nort
176 Meta: Suppose the new Delta does cut down on these routes then wouldn't that create a problem for KLM? They always codeshare with NW for routes such as BDL
177 Stitch: Even if DL does decide to transition to a Boeing-only fleet, it will take time. However, DL does have the advantage that A330s, particularly, are in h
178 Ikramerica: Yep. Expect them to be for 789s and 77Ws, with new options taken out for 787s and 748s. I still believe DL would have a fleet of at least 10 747s, th
179 1337Delta764: I was wondering, if Delta orders the 747-8i, will Delta switch to the GEnx for the 787's engines? It makes more sense for commonality, as the GEnx is
180 SKORD: Ok, im a bit nieve, but im UK based. Last week i booked TPA-EWR in October. Can i expect disruption to our flights and Schedule changes? DL offered th
181 AerLingusA330: Will Delta keep the current NW 757 flight from BDL-AMS?
182 Jacobin777: ..even though DL would probably be able to fly routes with the B77W, I expect them to take more B772LR's first....they have tremendous uplift capabil
183 Chgoflyer: Any one know how long Delta operated the Pan Am A310's? My money is on all Boeing as that has paid off for Delta in the past.
184 Chgoflyer: A330's will bring easy to sell on the secondary market or perhaps Boeing will make a deal like they did with Singapore and take them on trade.
186 DocLightning: Remember that DL and NW have very little overlap. In fact, they share, what...12 city pairs? Thus, there is very little room to eliminate flights, an
187 PM: Long enough for them to order nine more in their own right...
188 WingnutMN: NW is/was only going to configure the 788s with 221 seats. So once again, you can't replace an 333 or really even a 332 with it. http://www.nwa.com/c
189 IRelayer: This has probably been mentioned a number of times already but there appear to be no fleet synergies in this merger other than the 757s... NW: 747/DL:
190 Columba: Well the A332 has a good range which makes it ideal for the Pacific routes. Things have chanced after the PR from 2001 and NW/DL are now having a hug
192 Jacobin777: ..I would say that would exclude their 18 787 orders (and 50 options) by NW and the B777 orders by DL..and I agree on the freighter part...
193 Dc863: To achieve fleet commonality as quickly as possible.
194 Columba: They have 130 A32xs, 32 A330s and 16 747s all fleets are big enough to stand on their own. Commonality is one thing, but the 747 is paid for and make
195 BrightCedars: Quotes of the DL CEO from Reuters ...won't mean canceling existing plane purchases, or shifting its fleet strategy, the chief executive of what will b
196 Columba: I like the term 777 minijumbo http://www.reuters.com/article/innovationNews/idUSN1546898920080415
197 LifelinerOne: Boeing financed they buy-out? Right. So the whole story about swapping stocks is not true? I think Boeing needs it's money more (read B787 delay pena
198 Centrair: I made a chart of a combined fleet a few months back. It is now a moot file but I did eliminate: MD80s MD90s DC-9s A319 DH8-100 CRJ-200 In their place
200 Rheinwaldner: IMO the first aircraft for replacement will be the 767. I think after all 787 are delivered the only other change is a reduction of the 767 fleet (May
201 Pictues: They have a pilots agreement already, so only waiting on bush's approval plus the operating certificate process does take time, and nothing will stop
202 JFK787NYC: You are right this is the reason I have not switched to Delta for the JFK-TLV from Continental's EWR=TLV route because I do not want to fly 10 hours
203 Undrtkrav8tr: Anyone know, or willing to comment on NW Airlink, and what will happen there? ME
204 Boeing74741R: With a huge backlog for 737s as it is, combined with a similar need at AA to replace the oldest MD-80s with 737-800s then the answer to that is an em
205 Bobnwa: The new color scheme will be about number 2167 of things to consider for the new airline. I would be willing to bet good money against that fiction.
206 Phollingsworth: No it means the same thing as it did last week, remember DL is the continuing entity, DL can enforce it if they so choose but Boeing has given up the
207 Mk777: Are the services to India going to be affected. Currently DL flies ATL-JFK-BOM on the 77L. I am sure JFK-DEL is on the cards once more 77L's come in!!
208 MBJ2000: Now I'm gonna tell you the *REAL* story: A friend of mine who's got a friend working as a janitor for DL told me what will happen with the fleet. DLNW
209 DiscoverCSG: As others have noted, DL flies no 777's to Europe right now. There will be enough 757's around to fly just about anywhere, including TATL. Or, in oth
210 TN757Flyer: I was going to say to Dc863, I don't know what is sitting in the desert, but I doubt there are many, if any surplus 738's laying around. So yes, thos
211 Stitch: It could depend on the difference in trip costs. AS, for example, has discovered that the 73G and 738 have very close trip costs for the routes they
212 Mayor: I think that janitor has been sniffing too much cleaning fluid!
213 VictorKilo: NW currently uses the A332 to Asia, with a few routes to Europe. I expect DL 763's to fly the A332 flights to Europe (SEA/PDX-AMS, SEA-LHR), rotated t
214 Flavio340: Here is a some what combined international route map: http://newglobalairline.com/customers/international/map.png
215 FlyingDoctorWu: Nice summary of the current fleet including graphics about what is paid for and what is leased... Looks llike the 747s arent really paid for so to spe
216 Chgoflyer: I think you better re check your source on that..
217 NASCARAirforce: I think you will stop seeing Delta fly the 777s to Europe, they will replace them with A330s on Europe routes. The 777s will be needed for Asia.
218 Isitsafenow: Well, gee whiz....now when the CEO of a major airline says he(his airline)is interested in the birds, then thats a door slammer, dont ya think? If an
219 Gigneil: Unnecessary. The information is correct. Delta ordered a number of new build A310-300s to replace A310-200s. That would be hinged on them operating t
220 WorldTraveler: It’s time to debunk a few myths that persist in (dis)coloring people’s expectations about the future DL fleet. 1. DL will retain and likely expand
221 Isitsafenow: The A320 line includes, of course, the 319. NW does not have over 100 A320's flying or on order. safe
222 Jetlanta: My friend, thank you for the most rational, realistic look at the fleet opportunities and synergies that I have seen on this board. I completely conc
223 Mk777: U missed the destinations in India altogether.
224 SkyTeamTriStar: OPINION: Looking 5 yrs into the future, If I were a bettin' Man, the airline will probably create 'Round-The-World route. Let's suppose they don't. Wo
225 KochamLOT: After Dc-9s, MDS retire: Domestic low yield routes served by older, smaller dc-9s given to regionals with e-jets like compass, etc... A319s 737-800s 7
226 Boeing74741R: A very interesting insight, thanks for taking the time to post it. It has certainly shot down a lot of far-fetched/ego desiring myth's that have been
227 Dalb777: My guess it would stay JFK-LHR, possibly with a bigger aircraft, though.
228 Ikramerica: As far as I can tell, it's still opinion. Informed opinion because he follows DL closely, but opinion. Not only haven't DL worked out all the details
229 PSU.DTW.SCE: Interesting that the combined airline will be: -Largest 757 operator (200 combined) - taking the title from AA -Largest 767 operator - (DL) -Largest A
230 Cageyjames: Hmm, I can't comprehend english very well.[Edited 2008-04-16 11:01:48]
231 Planemaker: Absolutely! You just have to look at the number of cities that they both serve (mainline and regional) and then look at the O/D traffic and you will
233 Steeler83: There was an article in both the PG and Trib today about PIT in the aftermath of this merger, and it looks like there will be no cuts, as of right now
234 Isitsafenow: I also agree with that post.......except the MD-90. I cannot see DL keeping this bird much longer after this deal is closed in say, November or Decem
235 Planemaker: 120-135 seat RJs? No one makes them. Yes, things won't "visibly" change too much for a year after the merger and that is because the regionals have t
236 Bobnwa: The new airline is a member of Skyteam which just received ATI approval from the US government for AF/KL/DL/NW to act as one across the Atlantic. So
237 OA412: I noticed that too but the map itself comes directly from the DL/NW merger site. It's the only international destination that they seem to have misse
238 Dc863: Uh yes I am. I talked to a Delta captain who is long since retired who never bid on the L10s. Instead he stuck with the DC-8 till he retired. A PA Ca
239 Ikramerica: Only if they are problematic. From what I understand, the A330s aren't. The A310s and A300s up through the early A306s weren't of the same quality as
240 PM: You REALLY don't want the new Delta to fly A330s, do you?
241 Flyer9000: A lot of lines in this thread like this... In the past few years I've flown three different US airlines across the Atlantic and a number of transcons
242 Ikramerica: CO has some newer 777s with wider seats (but with less pitch), AVOD and power at every seat. The whole fleet is going there. 752s are also going ther
243 WorldTraveler: US shot themselves in the foot regarding their merger for a lot of reasons. the pilots were a small part of it. true but they will be used from ATL,
244 Kaitak744: Even though the A330 is an oddball in the NW/DL fleet, it will continue to be operated. They will act simply as "more 767s" for DL (more aircraft for
245 STT757: Assuming of course CO/UAL do not merge.
246 WorldTraveler: I'm not sure how many ETOPS 757s UA has but CO's 753s are not ETOPS aircraft anyway. CO does have a large ETOPS 752 fleet. It's also worth noting tha
247 STT757: Again you are well versed with regards to DL, but terribly misinformed about other carriers. While true the 757-300s that were delivered new to CO ar
248 WorldTraveler: yes, I did forget about the ATA ETOPS. But they aren't used on overwater routes, or are they? But it still doesn't change anything since DL/NW has ov
249 STT757: They can be as ATA flew them in scheduled service to Hawaii and military charters to Europe, currently the longest route CO has their 757-300s operat
250 PSU.DTW.SCE: 32 aircraft is not an odd-ball fleet. Remember that that -200's are a 240-seat aircraft and the -300's seat 290. NW was planning on parking between o
251 Kaitak744: I know, but that is not what I meant. Say if you shut down MEM and have 30 free A320s. You then take those and replace 30 DC-9s at DTW or MSP. Same w
252 Worldtraveler: You are in the minority if you think this merger won't go through. Even the industry naysayers acknowledge it is likely to go through - and there are
253 STT757: I was also in the minority when I predicted the Giants would beat the undefeated Patriots in the Super Bowl, however getting back to the discussion I
254 Ikramerica: It's larger than CO's 767 fleet and CO's 777 fleet. Are those fleets oddballs? 32 A330s is a good sized widebody fleet.
255 FlyingClrs727: I wonder if some of the non ER 763's could be outfitted with the Thompson Solutions Cozy Suites for high density domestic routes. Adding about 30 ext
256 Ikramerica: Wow. "Factual opinion?" "The best posts?" No point to disagree with you on anything you ever write again, because you obviously know more than anyone
257 Ocracoke: That map in reply 216 is not a combined map of the two airlines, but rather a map of what each one flys uniquely. All the red dots are all the cities
258 Ocracoke: That is a pretty good one, eh? Someone call up Hillary, Obama, or McCain and let them know of that saying. I'm sure they could get many miles out of
259 Sldispatcher: Does anybody think a new form of the old Delta Milk Runs will come back? For instance...ATL to JAN to TUL to SLC flight? etc. etc. Are the economics o
260 FlyingClrs727: Why not the 777-300ER. It's bascially the same plane as the 777-200LR Delta is already buying for very long haul just in the 777-300 length. It has 7
261 Speedbird0125: what's gonna happen to Asian route? Are they gonna keep using NRT as their Asian hub? or are they gonna change to somewhere like ICN since it's a big
262 Gigneil: They are literally identical planes, with the A319 offering the best base peformance , NRT? No. Asia, yes. No they were never intended to go internat
263 Isitsafenow: Today? Nope, no one does, HOWEVER. come back in four years. There should be a few out there offered from all over the world. The direction of the R.J
264 777STL: You also claimed a year or so ago that UA would be liquidated within six months, and then you backpedaled on that and claimed that you were absolutel
265 SkyTeamTriStar: While no human being is perfect, WT is most accurate. Drop it & move on.
266 DiscoverCSG: CO's 777's are very nice planes. However (DiscoverCSG ducks to avoid flaming darts) I find the 2-4-2 arrangement to be superior to the 3-3-3 set-up.
267 777STL: Well maybe he should stop acting like he is perfect, ehh? He opened himself up to criticism with that "I'm the all-knowing expert on everything" post
268 Mayor: I've only been on here a short while, but all I've seen from you is DL bashing. How is that any different? I'm 60, bubba.
269 1337Delta764: What do you mean here? CO has been using 764s on internaional routes ever since they entered service. They have never had such issues with cargo that
270 Jfk777: Whatever happens the 763ER, A330's, 787-8 and 777 wil be here for a LONG time to come, 2015 or later.
271 1337Delta764: As well as the 764ERs. I would actually think the 764ERs will be DL's last 767s to be retired, as they are Delta's newest 767s. Since there is no air
272 Boeing74741R: I don't think half of a.net want to see A330s (or any Airbus aircraft for that matter) in the new DL at all. It's getting boring now reading the "exp
273 777STL: Show me one instance in this thread of me bashing DL, bubba. kthxbye. You seem to be confusing me criticizing someone who opened themselves up to it
274 Ikramerica: It was incredibly condescending, but no less so than the "finally someone speaks the truth" accolades his long factual opinion got from DL fans right
275 Dc863: Well Delta execs according to the WSJ are going to trim the fleet to 5-6 types post merger.
276 Gigneil: DL has not and never intended to. The plane wasn't even insured for international flight, and it took them forever to get it resolved. And Continenta
277 1337Delta764: In addition to the Delta bashing, why is there so much 764ER bashing here? They are considered valuable to Delta. I know there are so many users here
278 Gigneil: It isn't. Just because you stated it doesn't mean its true. The international 764ERs is what Delta HAS. They make money, yes. But they are NOT the rig
279 1337Delta764: Again, you are IGNORING the fact that Delta has NEVER had issues with cargo on these routes. The A330-200 would not be beneficial at all. They are be
280 Columba: This is not the old Delta anymore, it is a new airline, it will carry all the passengers and cargo that before has been carried by two airlines. Carg
281 1337Delta764: But does NW fly routes such as ATL-CDG or ATL-LGW? Nope. I don't expect any significant increase in capacity on these routes.
282 Gigneil: LOL. Come on kid. First, Have you not considered that Delta uses the 764s on the routes they use the 764s on for a reason? Perhaps it is that's what t
283 1337Delta764: And why do you need an overcapable aircraft on routes such as ATL-CDG or ATL-LGW? Its the same reason why Delta has largely eliminated the the 764ER
284 Gigneil: Yeah, I do. The plane carries more people. They can't put a 777 on ATL-CDG or LGW so they did what they HAD to do , put 764s on there. If they HAD mor
285 1337Delta764: Delta will NOT purchase more 777s to use on ATL-CDG. Why waste a 777-200LR on such route, if they can be used for what they are designed for - ultra
286 CV880: IIRC, the 764 was purchased to replace the L10's on domestic high density routes, which the 285 pax capacity (vs 302 for the L10) has basically done.
287 Gigneil: LOL. Again, you didn't even get what I wrote, so I am going to stop writing about to you. However, you should really consider the fact that you have n
288 Columba: If the 764ER has its advantages over the A330 than I wonder why it only sold to DL and CO and not more airlines using it. Just to make it clear, I am
289 Stitch: But are 246 passengers and 38 LD2s worth of cargo all that the market wishes to send via DL on those routes? If it is, then the A330-200 is superfluo
290 1337Delta764: Yes, that is exactly my point. Delta has stated that there will be NO HUBS CLOSED. What, are you calling Richard Anderson a liar? The merger is about
291 Columba: Where did Gigneil said ATL-CDG should be served a 777LR ? He just said 777, the 777-200ER is still available ? Look what AF is sending on the CDG-ATL
292 Gigneil: Yes, your point is wrong. So, can you please illustrate for us the numbers that support Anderson's statement? What are some of the metrics he's using
293 1337Delta764: However, there are two Delta flights on ATL-CDG and only one Air France flight. I don't think that Delta would waste two 777s on the route. Also, you
294 1337Delta764: No, your point is wrong. You are bashing the 764ER without valid reasons.
295 Columba: If they don´t close any hubs than the hub system will be reorganised DL will not serve all cities from all hubs it is. ATL will be their main hub an
296 1337Delta764: Then that would still be subtraction. I am totally sure that the European routes out of DTW and MSP are safe.
297 Gigneil: That's not even what we're TALKING about. This about PAST mistakes. Not future. See how hard it is to talk about something you know nothing about? DL
298 1337Delta764: But returning them to domestic routes doesn't solve anything. Delta announced that they will be getting the Thompson Solutions sleeper suites in Busi
299 Gigneil: Certainly. If they don't merge, those planes are all they will be able to afford to continue to fly those routes. They don't have enough on order to r
300 1337Delta764: So then, why would Delta dump a fleet of good, fairly new aircraft? I am 100% sure that the 767-400ERs will be the last 767s that are retired.
301 Gigneil: There will be some flying to Hawaii for a looong time to come.... I also believe they will do well on the shorter South America routes where they can
302 A342: Nobody is bashing the 764ER, neither are we defending the A330, because it doesn't need to be defended. Some of us are just pointing out the fact tha
303 Columba: You just don´t want to understand. The point is that DL before the merger only had a limited number of longhaul aircraft. Their largest being the 77
304 Gigneil: It they didn't have that plane, or had gotten what they wanted (a way less capable one) they would be out of business right now. They would have been
305 1337Delta764: Says who? I really think that Delta is more interested in the 787s than the A330s. If you read many news articles, most analysts are expecting that t
306 Gigneil: Anderson. He specifically said to press repeatedly that the Delta pilots contract was renegotiated so they could get NW's larger planes to JFK and AT
307 A342: I suggested neither, and I don't think anybody suggested the latter. They may get the hands on them earlier, but that doesn't prevent them from takin
308 Gigneil: AND you can't predict the 787 reliably now. It may NEVER arrive. Unlikely, but they certainly have no idea when. They
309 Planemaker: Oh, sure. There are only 15 MD90's in DL's fleet. And just where would they get all these additional MD90s? Of 116 that were built (including the 2 i
310 Phollingsworth: Not entirely wrong. This issue is that on shorter international operations the A332 does not have a substantial payload advantage over the B764. Ther
311 1337Delta764: Thanks for presenting the facts in an unbiased manner.
312 SM92: I think it was mentioned earlier in the posts above but I thought I'd point out a link to an article: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...logy/200
313 WorldTraveler: But we don’t’ know that will actually happen now do we? Thank you. Some people have the maturity to recognize that other people really may be rig
314 STT757: To assume it will not is foolish, I'm sure in every business plan DL is preparing for post NWA merger is included the fact that they will be competin
315 Mayor: It may have been awhile since I had a math class but, I could swear that the MD-90 adds up to 150 pax and the A320 to 148.
316 Mayor: I come on here because I like to argue.
317 Cageyjames: I'm pretty sure if you dropped one row of the first class cabin and added in another row of Y you'd have more seats on the A320. *shurg* If you wante
318 Planemaker: 15... the 16th is in storage. I'm arguing with someone who can't recgonize that configured the same there is virtually no difference between the two
319 Cageyjames: Hmm, my sarcasm meter was turned off. Carry on![Edited 2008-04-17 16:09:31]
320 Jetlanta: Think about that last line very carefully.
321 WorldTraveler: unfortunately the media doesn't report that there are indeed everyday people in Iraq who are grateful for Iraq. The MSM also doesn't report that US m
322 1337Delta764: With the 764ER vs A330 argument aside, here are the cabin improvements I would like to see Delta make on Northwest's fleet: All types except DC-9: Ref
323 Moderators: As this thread has reached 320+ replies, please continue the discussion in the Part 2 therad: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/r
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 459 posts, 
From Belgium, joined Oct 2007, 590 posts, 
From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24621 posts, 
From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 6798 posts, 
From India, joined Feb 2005, 6716 posts, 
) on the 787! They'd be mad to give them up.
From Switzerland, joined Oct 2000, 634 posts, 
From Australia, joined Jul 2005, 2029 posts, 
From Singapore, joined May 2007, 1019 posts, 
From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3807 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
