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Merger: UA And US In Talks - WSJ  
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4120 posts, RR: 5
Posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16152 times:

Saw this on the WSJ a few min ago, personally I think it would be a disaster but might as well post it.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1208...2216083.html?mod=hps_us_whats_news

Quote:
People familiar with the matter said there is no merger deal already drawn up between United and Continental. But the two were expected to resume talks, said one person, following up on informal discussions in the recent months about governance, with the idea that Mr. Kellner would be CEO of the combined entity if they got together.

Other people with knowledge of the situation suggested that the two could reach an agreement on a deal in the next few weeks. That would put their proposed transaction on the same timeline for regulatory scrutiny as the Delta-Northwest deal, with an eye toward receiving clearance from the Justice Department before the White House changes hands in January. The thinking is that the government wouldn't approve one deal and block a second.

To broaden its options, though, United also is looking at a more remote possibility of buying US Airways, said one person familiar with the matter. It wouldn't be the first time. United tried to acquire US Airways in 2000 but the plan was dropped in the face of regulatory resistance.

Another person familiar with the matter said United and US Airways have been in talks about a potential merger for over a month. The companies have done "a lot of work together" on what the synergies could be and are floating around a number that could be at least as attractive as synergies in a United-Continental linkup, this person said. Those synergies would be driven by the strength of US Airways' route network in the East, this person said, adding that the synergies would also be "meaningfully higher" than the $1 billion-plus in annual revenue and cost savings number that Northwest and Delta have said they expect to generate in a merger.

Crazy times!

113 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16154 times:

What value is there in this for UA? The southeast?


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4120 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16154 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
What value is there in this for UA? The southeast?

None, but I guess they might as well explore all options. US doesn't have any ops in the southeast, though they do have a stronger operation in the northeast that UA could be looking at.


User currently offlineSurfrider1978 From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16128 times:

Sounds like a disaster in the making. 2 of the worst carriers getting married.....Gheesh. I give this no credability. If it is true it's pure lunacy

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33195 posts, RR: 71
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16135 times:

I personally rather see UA be divided up between CO and AA. Say, for example, AA gets NRT/LAX/IAD; CO takes ORD/DEN/SFO.


a.
User currently offlineN670UW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1606 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16128 times:



Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 2):
US doesn't have any ops in the southeast

Charlotte's not in the Southeast?


User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4120 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16131 times:



Quoting N670UW (Reply 5):
Charlotte's not in the Southeast?

Oops.  Smile


User currently offlineThomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 4013 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16086 times:

Didn't the Feds put a kibosh a UA/US marriage on this some years back?

What the hell are they smokin?

Thomas



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlineSurfrider1978 From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16088 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
I personally rather see UA be divided up between CO and AA.

That would be horrible, at least the AA part of it. All they would do is butcher anything they attained. Can you say (AirCal, Reno Air, TWA)?


User currently offlineShannoninAMA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16048 times:



Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 7):


Didn't the Feds put a kibosh a UA/US marriage on this some years back?

What the hell are they smokin?

Exactly what I came here to say as well. Do they think if they say please this time, the feds will reconsider?


User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2692 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16021 times:

Oh good Lord no! I don't have high hopes of this working. It didn't last time, when US was smaller. I was just starting to like the outcome of the much-rumored UA/CO merger, too. I hope this doesn't happen!

User currently offlineMKE22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1147 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16020 times:



Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 7):
Didn't the Feds put a kibosh a UA/US marriage on this some years back?

You are right, in 01 I think. Who is to say this won't be turned down again?

...But who is to say it will...?  stirthepot   stirthepot   spin   spin   spin   spin   whistleblower 



If Your not pissed, your not trying
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16022 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
I personally rather see UA be divided up between CO and AA. Say, for example, AA gets NRT/LAX/IAD; CO takes ORD/DEN/SFO.

I would too.

But I see it as AA with SFO+IAD+some ORD slots, and CO with LAX+DEN+ORD terminal and slots. Not sure about NRT. AA has a lot of flights in, and could benefit from continuation to other cities, but CO could use more NRT access.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineGlobalDude From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 237 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16021 times:

Do it! Please. Anything but CO/UA. UA/US! then CAL can buy AirTran AND Frontier. Sorry...just dreaming  bouncy 

User currently offlineCIDflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2352 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15990 times:

well this is certainly interesting. I thought UA/US the 1st time around actually would have made a good combo. The two things I see UA gaining in this would be the CLT hub for instant southeast presence and also a major presence in the northeast. Problems that would have to be worked on would be the DC area, where both carriers dominate at either IAD (UA) and DCA (US). Perhaps because US is also in Star Alliance LH would be contributing/investinging into this combination as well. I wonder if the would probably turn the PHX hub into a TED hub, due to its low yield nature??

User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6101 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15944 times:



Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 2):
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
What value is there in this for UA? The southeast?

None, but I guess they might as well explore all options. US doesn't have any ops in the southeast, though they do have a stronger operation in the northeast that UA could be looking at.

I'm sure over the next few weeks we will be hearing about every airline under the sun merging with every other one. Just hold on to your hats and see what happens. either way it sounds like we should know something more concrete in the next few weeks.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15908 times:



Quoting United1 (Reply 15):
I'm sure over the next few weeks we will be hearing about every airline under the sun merging with every other one

How about Hawaiian plus USA3000!  Wink



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7759 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15875 times:

All I can say is if UA and US merge, good luck UA, youll need it!

I think any carrier would be foolish to merge with US.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15879 times:

The sweet bitter end to PHL/USAirways trying to extort another new airport out of the Commonwealth of PA would be US/UA merging and staying at room-to-grow IAD... which is still a stronger travel market than PHL.

User currently offlineStarAlliance38 From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1445 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15836 times:



Quoting GlobalDude (Reply 13):
Do it! Please. Anything but CO/UA. UA/US! then CAL can buy AirTran AND Frontier. Sorry...just dreaming

I so agree with you. I'm for merging within your alliance and if AirTran doesn't become a Star regional member, then just get the prize: the hospitality and the 7-1-7s  Smile. Not so sure about CAL and Frontier though



Roar, lion, roar
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6961 posts, RR: 63
Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15832 times:

I'm far removed from this whole thing and haven't flown either airline for years (wow - more than 10 years in each case now that I check!) but, on the face of it, there is some logic to a UA/US tie-up.

Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 7):
Didn't the Feds put a kibosh a UA/US marriage on this some years back?



Quoting ShannoninAMA (Reply 9):
Exactly what I came here to say as well. Do they think if they say please this time, the feds will reconsider?

That was then. This is now. The situation has changed with oil at $100+ and the DL/NW tie-up...


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31259 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15801 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Back in 2000, a UA/US tie-up made some sense, but since their own merger, US has gone down the tubes.

I'd much rather link with CO, whom I am flying more and more domestically because of their solid First Class product. I'll just burn my last 120K UAMP miles while I can, and keep crediting to LH M&M.


User currently offlineGlobalDude From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 237 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15771 times:

FRNT just for Denver and some west coast ( not the planes)...and maybe cheap to buy. Airtran has a lot of 737ng's and most of teminal C in ATL and have a market share...great to play against the new #! global monster Delta. Just a fantasy!

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11840 posts, RR: 62
Reply 23, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15730 times:

I see some major problems with this - chief among them that neither United or USAirways is in any sort of state to merge with the other. Both have major, major operational, financial or service issues of their own to deal with, and the only hypothetical solace for either would be merging with (read: being taken over by) a better-managed carrier.

United's Dulles hub is almost entirely redundant with USAirways in Philadelphia, and there is no way that any airline would need Los Angeles, Phoenix and San Francisco as hubs - serving much the same markets with lots and lots of overlap and low-yielding competition with Southwest.

I think United's best option is to merge with Continental, which offers a far more balanced network and far, far more attractive management. However, absent that full-blown merger with Continental, I agree with MAH4546 that splitting United up between American and Continental would be better than seeing United and USAirways merge.


User currently offlineNycbjr From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15679 times:

this would be a mess of a tie up,,, as bad at DL/NWA is going to have it integrating everything, CO/UA is going to just be nasty nightmare... I've had the worst experiences on UA and the best on CO.. I'm afraid that it will mess up that exp.. CO IMO is the best at most everything (DL a close second and I wish them the best)...

as a customer of both DL and CO in the NYC area this is all very interesting to watch!!


25 LAXdude1023 : I dont necesarily want to see UA split up, but this might cause the same affect in the long run. Oh well, Id hate to see bad things happen to their e
26 United1 : Anything is possible, although that one doesn't seem likely. As has been mentioned on other threads other peoples opinions may and do differ.
27 BOStonsox : Hmm. PHX and LAS vs. SFO and LAX, which ones win? PHL and CLT vs. IAD, who wins there? Washington is a more important market than Philadelphia or Char
28 FriendlySkies : I think UA is probably just exploring all options. I highly, highly doubt it will happen, the result would go bankrupt in a week.
29 WESTERN737800 : Routes would be somewhat complimentry. It would be a good fleet mix, the only issue the 777/330, I cant think of any others. I'd be awful of any airli
30 Nycbjr : Sorry meant no disrespect.. u are right EVERYONE has their opinion and has had both good and bad on their flights.. I'm sure everyone at UA works ver
31 Tommy767 : US Airways + United = One huge pile of sh*t. If it happened in 2000, that would have been a much different story.
32 United1 : No worries, I just wanted to make sure that this thread didn't degrade into the who's better then who thread that some of the others have... CO is al
33 N1120A : Not to mention US' strength in the Northeast Other than DL in ATL, US has the strongest operation in the southeast at CLT. Very different times, very
34 Whappeh : yay, a whole new can of worms for people to bash airlines in.
35 DocLightning : The irony is the fleet mess. UA and NW have similar fleets (A320/757/744). DL and CO have similar fleets (737/757/767/777). And yet the mergers went c
36 IliriBDL : Like someone mentioned in here, being that both UA and US are in the Star Alliance, might help the case, as well I can see LH (and other *A members) p
37 DeltaL1011man : that a joke? SFO and LAX (and you forgot DEN)
38 BOStonsox : No, obviously it's going to be SFO and LAX. My point is that nothing happens except that all of US's hubs are gone, unless they split IAD among PHL a
39 Stitch : I imagine it did, but it's now effectively an LCC in terms of service standards. UA is at least trying to not only maintain but improve their service
40 CuriousFlyer : UA and US are among the worst airlines I flew with. Air India was quite bad too, but at least they apologized. The merger would create a low cost, low
41 RJ777 : Tell THAT to America West!
42 LAXdude1023 : America West rescued US Airways, not the other way around. US was in such a world of hurt that they had to ask their employees to work for free for a
43 DocLightning : Wait a sec. The only airline that US could be of use to is AA. US has a strong Western presence with PHX and LAS. Then they have PHL and CLT, which ar
44 ElmoTheHobo : This horse has been beaten. AirCal-American Airlines was almost 22 years ago. Reno Air-American Airlines was a decade ago. The West Coast market was
45 Columba : Well they would be bigger and stronger and better able to compete with the new Delta, also they would get a fleet of brand new A330/A32x and early de
46 Deltaflyertoo : Kind of a moot point-the Vegas hub is on its way out anyway...and even if it wasn't being downsized at 80 flights a day, its not a big loss...
47 Tommy767 : You're combining two HUGE airlines with poor management. Forget high oil prices and a slowing economy, the airline integration would be an operationa
48 UAL777UK : Oh for gods sake UA, don't start sniffing around US. Lets stick with the common theme here and merge with CO.
49 HAMAD : OMG, are you kidding? when did that happen!
50 Burkhard : Is it really of importance in which order they merge ( but for share holders and stuff ). I don't expect that in the near end there are more than two
51 MMEPHX : ...interesting.....AA or CO to step in and buy the overlapping parts of US/UA?? Thus "allowing" the merger???
52 Dragon6172 : Can you imagine the rounds of pilot senority battles this would bring? Geez Could CO compete with combined DL/NW, UA/US, and AA? I have not flow CO in
53 Continental180 : good do it.. keep continental independent.
54 USAirALB : UAL tried this with US before-it failed!!!!!!!!!! But I'd much rather see a merger with US than CO.
55 DiscoverCSG : Say what you want about AA, but we're not talking about TWA with its JFK and STL hubs. We're talking about UA, whose hubs would be attractive to: DEN
56 Airbazar : I'm almost certain they will. It would be the other way around. PHL has no room to grow and operationally it's a complete disaster, while IAD has lot
57 Burkhard : Which would make the synergy gain larger.
58 NW748i : Hopefully Bob Johnson will show up again!
59 Gigneil : No, that is not correct. UA had already decided to not pursue the merger, and basically just told the DOJ to let it go. The DOJ has never decline an
60 Apodino : If Steve Wolf was still running US I would agree with this statement. But Doug Parker is not what I would consider a poor manager. I think he is one
61 Gigneil : I will go so far as to say I find that comment almost offensive. Glenn Tilton has done an amazing job for that airline against impossible odds, and h
62 Bernsa : CO without NW reciprocity for my purposes looks more like a niche carrier to me - And I'm a CO Elite based out of EWR. I'm contemplating a possible lo
63 Stitch : Agreed. Many of Tilton's decisions have not panned out, but he was at least willing to try something new. And even though he now seems to be bound an
64 RyeFly : PHL and CLT would be safe in a US/UA merger. If anything CLT would dramatically grow. I'm thinking something on par with the huge expansion UA envisio
65 Gigneil : LOL, hardly. They would divest DCA, just like they would have before. There isn't anything at IAD of value to sell to anyone, anyway. Philadelphia blo
66 ANCFlyer : That's already happening . . . DL and NW merger is proof . . . two low rent operations merging into one giant low rent operation. I'd rather see a me
67 MSYPI7185 : I would like to see this combination. It made sense in 2001 and I believe it can work today. There would be a great opportunity to expand out of CLT t
68 Naritaflyer : I like that scenario. UA has no reason to be alive. In my opinion, as a very frequent flyer, it is one of the shittiest airlines out there and I for
69 EXAAUADL : this is probably better for AA than CO/UA, as AA can force US to divest DCA. Im not sure I'd want SFO without NRT or vice versa. I'd try to get both
70 Flyingcat : I can see a merged 747 and 777 now with 18 in C and 300+ in Y Forget glass in first class, and 24F in a 757. Economy Plus will be yanked out in the bl
71 Jlbmedia : I don't understand why everyone wants to write off PHL. I now it is a mess, but with a new mayor who has made PHL one of his priorities, and the fact
72 ANCFlyer : BWI isn't a factor - really. The US presence there has diminished significantly over the last couple years (supplanted by WN) and it's too close to I
73 United Airline : UA will always have first class. Their first class are profitable
74 Airbazar : PHL would remain primarily a O&D airport like BOS and most East Coast connecting passengers would be routed via IAD or CLT.
75 Steeler83 : Well, if this goes through, I guess it will be the end of whatever they have left at PIT in favor of IAD or PHL. Hasta la vista, baby, and good ridenc
76 FriendlySkies : Unlike UA/CO, there's no question here. If any airline has a worse rep than UA, it's US, and it would be ignorant to say that the US brand has anywhe
77 Avek00 : I never understood why anyone who looks objectively at Steve Wolf's high level jobs at Flying Tigers, United, Air France, or USAirways gripe and comp
78 FriendlySkies : Wolf came to UA, painted the planes grey, and threatened to shut down the airline unless the employees bought it out. You're telling me that was the
79 AAJFKSJUBKLYN : Am I the only one on this board who is simply tired of hearing about AA and their previous mergers? Let me know when you find a sucessful merger. Asid
80 Gigneil : He also ordered a few Airbus planes as well as launched this insignificant airframe called the 777. Yes. That was the best thing for the airline. NS
81 Ikramerica : I really see it the other way. Reasons: You don't hub in CA. You have an international gateway. AA already has that at LAX. AA tried that with SJC bu
82 Frontierflyer : I like us/ua tie up. Both are already in star, they finally can dtch those horrid 737s and become exclusively airbus narrowbody. Abviously washington
83 Gigneil : How would it benefit anyone? A, United doesn't need PHX or LAS. They would, in fact, be scheduling liabilities. B, DCA is one of US's most valuable as
84 Avek00 : Let's see: 1. The ESOP-era labor contracts provided United with a cost structure that allowed it to expand; 2. Wolf made sure United got the 777 firs
85 Post contains images Flighty : I suppose you would say the same about LHR?  [Edited 2008-04-16 09:11:00]
86 Gigneil : Lol, I suppose that you could. But London is London. And Philadephia is not. NS
87 Cageyjames : Hey if there is profits in PHL, then you need to be there. PHL is a disaster because of US' management of the situation.
88 Naritaflyer : So you think there is profit to be made there? Then why didn't US see it? Are you saying that US which is begging for profits cannot see it but you c
89 Cageyjames : Huh? What are you talking about? PHL is one of their biggest hubs and the international gateway and a huge profit center.
90 Naritaflyer : How do you know it is hugely profitable? This is a serious question, by the way. Last I saw US is losing money hand over fist.
91 Airbazar : That doesn't mean PHL by itself is losing money. Most carriers are losing money hand over fist, not just US. AA just reported a huge loss. So I suppo
92 Steeler83 : When was that, 2003? when their biggest hub was still PIT? Then yes, they were losing hand over fist If they are losing money now, I don't think it's
93 Cageyjames : Given what I've learned while reading this forum, international hubs are very profitable for US airlines. I'm sure the drain on US is from LAS, PHX a
94 Copter808 : Then CO picks up what's left and turns it into a good airline!
95 VC10er : UA and CO are culturally similar in many ways. they both are fighting to be the best U.S. carrier with focus on premium service to the business and el
96 Post contains links IliriBDL : Another merger in US Airways' future? http://www.azcentral.com/business/ar.../20080416biz-usairways0416-ON.html Doug Parker, chief executive officer o
97 Post contains images UA2162 : This would be a disaster. I worked for US and have seen them in action. Personally, I would take my 200,000 MP miles and ask AA or DL for a status mat
98 EMB170 : UA and US, IIRC, didn't merge not because the DOJ said no but because once UA got a closer look at US's books, UA's management at the time realized t
99 PHLBOS : As someone already stated; US has already started to downsize its LAS hub. CLT - yes; PHL - no, mainly due to its close proximity to IAD. If a UA/US
100 WunalaYann : AF/KL. One could point out to various degrees of integration such as OS/Lauda, or the Japanese market... And as a side note, please define "successfu
101 MCOflyer : You are right on the money though I don't think DCA would dropped as a Hub. DCA still plays a vital role in the shuttle operation and the east operat
102 UPS757Pilot : I disagree with them substantially cutting intenational service from PHL. If anything I see it growing. PHL is the #4 largest market in the USA and U
103 LAXdude1023 : Well as a point of clarification, PHL is the 5th largest market in the US now. DFW passed it up. But I do agree to a point. I dont think that PHL wou
104 Steeler83 : Wow, so PHL goes to focus city status, while PIT is gone. I am sure Gov. Eddie will be very vocal about that... You have 3 million people in Philadel
105 Post contains links and images UPS757Pilot : Damn, when did that happen? Either way it will be interesting, especially with the awarded PHL-PEK. Also, interesting stuff here, albeit all pre-merg
106 Halls120 : As long as you don't mind having your luggage lost upon arrival in PHL. I realize that the above is PR puffery from US, but come on - PHL is "conveni
107 DeltaL1011man : So Tilton has taken money for UA put UA into BK then into chap.7 and sold off the company and can never work for an airline again? No Tilton got UA o
108 Gigneil : Yes. DCA is a protected market, and access to it is limited. The combined UA/US would own the vast majority of slots there and would control a huuge
109 EA CO AS : It was said years before and I'll say it again - putting UA and US together is like using two anchors to try and make a boat.
110 Gigneil : United needs to retrench at Dulles, bolster their domestic schedule significantly. That will shore up the East coast problem, when added to Continenta
111 PHLBOS : IIRC, none of US' current equipment can do PHL-PEK. At present, no action was taken on the former AC-A340s or any other A340s for that matter. So US
112 Dispatchguy : I was a disaster in 2000 when this was first tried - now, it would just implode on both carriers.
113 Airbazar : No one is denying that PHL has a strong O&D market. All we're suggesting is that if there is a UA/US merger, PHL will be slimmed down to serve its O&
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