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2008 Orders  
User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2754 posts, RR: 58
Posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8100 times:

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I apologize for the extreme delay in getting the newest "Orders" thread up and running. I'm afraid my off-line life has not allowed me the time necessary to do the quality job that many of you have come to expect from this thread. However, please know that I have still tried to keep track of what's happening, both in the industry and here at A.net. For those of you who have continued to send me private messages, wondering where the thread is and when I will get it running, I sincerely thank you. Your interest and support is a strong sign to me that my effforts to maintain a high quality thread on commercial aircraft orders for the last 3 years has not been in vain.

As always, it is the intention of this thread to provide accurate, balanced and concrete information. If an 'commitment' is a rumor, it will not be listed. If that commitment does not have a definite number of frames behind it, it will not be listed. Any questions, please feel free to ask either here or privately. Without further ado:

Big version: Width: 150 Height: 50 File size: 2kb

Firm
Aer Lingus - 4 A320
Afriqiyah Airlines - 6 A350-800
AirAsia - 25 A320
AirAsia X - 10 A330-300
Airbus Corporate Jets - 2 A318, 4 A319, 2 A350-900
Atlantic Airways - 1 A319
AWAS - 75 A320
BOC Aviation - 5 A330-200F
China - 110 A320
China Airlines - 14 A350-900
China Southern - 10 A330-200
CIT Leasing - 7 A319, 8 A320, 5 A330-200
Finnair - 1 A330-300
Hamburg International - 2 A319
Hawaiian Airlines - 6 A330-200, 6 A350-800
Korean Air Lines - 3 A380-800
Libyan Airlines - 7 A320, 4 A330-200, 4 A350-800
MatlinPatterson - 6 A330-200F
TACA Int'l Airlines - 3 A319, 12 A320
TAM - 3 A319, 9 A320, 8 A321, 4 A330-200, 12 A350-800, 10 A350-900
Vietnam Aircraft Leasing - 10 A321
Vietnam Airlines - 10 A321, 10 A350-900
Virgin America - 2 A320


Cancellations
Eurofly - 3 A350-800
TAM - 10 A350-900
U.S. Airways - 12 A318


Pending
ACT Airlines - 2 A330-200F
Aer Lingus - 6 A330-300, 6 A350-900 (supposedly firmed earlier this month)
Air Astana - 6 A320
China - 40 A330, 20 A350
Dubai Aerospace - 70 A320, 30 A350
Grupo Marsans - 12 A319, 25 A320, 5 A321, 5 A330-200, 10 A350-900, 4 A380-800 (big question hangs over this order, as it was announced as 'firm' months ago, but never made it onto Airbus's books)
Kingfisher Airlines - 20 A320, 15 A350 (A350 is net, as airline already has 5 older version to be converted)
Philippine Airlines - 5 A320
Royal Jordanian - 2 A319, 2 A321 (announced months ago, but never firmed. Will these be leased?)
Royal Saudi Air Force - 2 A330MRTT
United Arab Emirates - 3 A330MRTT


Totals
Gross - 420
Net - 395
Pending - 290


Big version: Width: 150 Height: 50 File size: 2kb

Firm
American Airlines - 1 737-800
Asiana Airlines - 1 777-200ER
Blue Air - 2 737-800
Boeing Business Jets - 3 737-700, 1 747-8, 1 787-8
Continental Airlines - 19 737-700, 6 777-200ER
Garuda Indonesia - 4 777-300ER
Gulf Air - 16 787-8
Lion Air - 56 737-900ER
RAK Airways - 4 737-800
Southwest Airlines - 1 737-700
Turkmenistan Airlines - 1 737-700, 2 737-900ER, 1 777-200LR
Unidentified - 35 737-700, 63 737-800, 30 737NG*, 14 777-300ER, 23 787-8, 35 787-9


Cancellations
SkyEurope - 1 737-700


Pending
Air Astana - 3 787*
Arkia Israel Airlines - 2 787-9
Avolar - 20 737-700 (expected to be firmed EOY'07, Ghost, do you know anything?)
Biman Bangladesh - 4 777-300ER, 4 787*
El Al Israel Airlines - 4 777*
GMG Airlines - 3 777-300ER, 3 787*
Iraqi Airways - 30 737NG*, 10 787*
Malaysia Airlines - 35 737-800
SpiceJet - 10 737-800
VIM-Avia - 15 737-900ER
Virgin Atlantic Airways - 8 787-9


Totals
Gross - 319
Net - 318
Pending - 151


Any updates/corrections to the above, please let me know.

Regards,

Hamlet69  profile 


Honor the warriors, not the war.
55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTISTPAA727 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 331 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8081 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

As always, thank you for taking the time to develop this post!!  bigthumbsup 

Now if you would just divulge some of that great information on upcoming orders  Wink



Don't sweat the little things.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21589 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8042 times:

With all the BK's going on, should we also list "Pending Cancellations"? Seems both companies will have some of those this year...

As an example, ATA has 60 unfilled orders at Boeing. SX has 62(?) unfilled orders at Airbus.

[Edited 2008-04-16 10:18:37]


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineMoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4090 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7991 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
With all the BK's going on, should we also list "Pending Cancellations"? Seems both companies will have some of those this year...

As an example, ATA has 60 unfilled orders at Boeing. SX has 62(?) unfilled orders at Airbus.

I would disagree with this because the bankruptcy court could very well allow the administrators to sell those slots off for financial income - an airline in bankruptcy does not automatically put the production slots in doubt as they are a valuable asset.

I would rate these assumed bankruptcies as lower than a 'rumoured commitment', which Hamlet rightfully say will not be listed.


User currently offlineNaritaflyer From Japan, joined Apr 2006, 549 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7989 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
As an example, ATA has 60 unfilled orders at Boeing. SX has 62(?) unfilled orders at Airbus.

Are you sure about the ATA and SX numbers? I thought SX had 14 delievered on their original order. Can someone confirm the ATA backlog please?


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21589 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7945 times:



Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 4):
I thought SX had 14 delievered on their original order

Most were leased and not from their order. I believe they only got 2 or 3 directly from Airbus.

Quoting Moo (Reply 3):
I would disagree with this because the bankruptcy court could very well allow the administrators to sell those slots off for financial income

And an MoU or LoI can be canceled by a solvent airline. Without a judge intervening.

Or the slots could be sold to an airline in the pending column. We can't know until it happens.

Pending is just that: pending. Action is pending. It may or may not happen.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7883 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
Or the slots could be sold to an airline in the pending column. We can't know until it happens.

Normally, the manufacturers don't seem to take kindly to production slots being sold by airlines, but does insolvency change this?



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineLH506 From Ecuador, joined May 2007, 466 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7851 times:



Quoting Hamlet69 (Thread starter):

hey Hamlet,

I would make the following additions on the pendings:

Airbus:

BA 2x318
Nile Air 9x321
Synergy Group 10x350
Al Jaber 2x380
TP 8x320
GF 8x320 (I think they mentioned this when they announced the 788s)
Air Arabia 2x320

I guess we all agree that Jagson 14x321, GEACS 10x350 and Transaero 4x320 and 8x330 are long expired and obsolete.


Boeing:

ANA 2x767F
GEACS 50x737
Nok Air 2x737
Orient Thai 12x737 and 8x787



NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 764 77L 787 300B2 300B4 345 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40/95 Q1/2/3 M87
User currently offlineMoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4090 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7855 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
And an MoU or LoI can be canceled by a solvent airline. Without a judge intervening.

Which is why an MoU or LoI is not counted as an order.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
Pending is just that: pending. Action is pending. It may or may not happen.

But in this instance nothing is 'pending' since an announcement has not been made one way or another - what you are proposing is another column entitled 'assumptions'. Your 'assumed' cancellation is certainly not on the same level as an MoU or LoI that has been formally announced.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 6):

Normally, the manufacturers don't seem to take kindly to production slots being sold by airlines, but does insolvency change this?

We have seen it happen, although it doesn't happen a lot.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21589 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7842 times:

Here's another pending from the AA Q1 report:

Quote:
Fleet Reduction/Replacement
Arpey also said that AMR will make additional reductions to its 2008 capacity plan and is accelerating the replacement of its MD-80 fleet with more efficient Boeing 737-800s. AMR expects to take delivery of 34 Boeing 737-800 aircraft in 2009 and 36 Boeing 737s in 2010. Of these, the company has firm commitments in place for 27 Boeing 737s to be delivered in 2009 and three 737s to be delivered in 2010.

That's 40 x 738 for AA pending.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5237 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7842 times:



Quoting Hamlet69 (Thread starter):
Avolar - 20 737-700 (expected to be firmed EOY'07, Ghost, do you know anything?)

Hi Hamlet69! I was badly missing this thread. I'm really sorry to let you down on this one in a way. As you might as well remember, early months of 2007 there were big news about A5 getting 20 B737-800s or at least that's what the airline and Boeing Chief for Latan in Mexico were telling to the media and so far still no info.

Reviewing Boeing's site there's still a hell of a big list of Boeing 737-800s ordered by the biggest Unidentified Airways International. I only see an Unidentified order for December 4th 2007 for 06 Boeing 737-700s. So if it was a 2007 order, it then must be a B737-800 batch for A5.

On a side note, I know of another Mexican carrier being interested this year to order new Boeing's  Smile.

g77



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3958 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7808 times:



Quoting Hamlet69 (Thread starter):
For those of you who have continued to send me private messages, wondering where the thread is and when I will get it running

I see my endless nagging finally paid off  Wink . Great to see the thread back and thanks to NYC777 for the interim weekly posts during your absense.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 7):
Boeing:

ANA 2x767F

 confused  Afaik, those are 767BCF orders and therefore not brand new aircraft.

R


User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7709 times:



Quoting Hamlet69 (Thread starter):
American Airlines - 1 737-800

That's odd that AA would order in onsies and twosies...doesn't AA already hold several open production slots for 737-823's (like 40 of them)?

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 9):
Here's another pending from the AA Q1 report:

Quote:
Fleet Reduction/Replacement
Arpey also said that AMR will make additional reductions to its 2008 capacity plan and is accelerating the replacement of its MD-80 fleet with more efficient Boeing 737-800s. AMR expects to take delivery of 34 Boeing 737-800 aircraft in 2009 and 36 Boeing 737s in 2010. Of these, the company has firm commitments in place for 27 Boeing 737s to be delivered in 2009 and three 737s to be delivered in 2010.

That's 40 x 738 for AA pending.

Does this mean that ORD will finally become a 738 crew base? About stinkin' time for that...



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21589 posts, RR: 59
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7654 times:



Quoting Moo (Reply 8):
Your 'assumed' cancellation is certainly not on the same level as an MoU or LoI that has been formally announced.

Whatever man. I assume the sun's going to come up every day, too. Can't prove it will until it happens though. Earth could explode during the night.

But I've had 2 MoU/LoI in other business last year that weren't worth the paper they were written on.

Which is why they all go under pending.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 12):
Does this mean that ORD will finally become a 738 crew base? About stinkin' time for that...

For another thread. Orders only. Implications go elsewhere.  Wink



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineMoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4090 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7595 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 13):

As I said, you want a column entitled 'assumptions'. Because thats what you are doing - assuming.

In this day and age those slots are worth a lot more to the bankruptcy court as an asset than as a refunded deposit.

Did you immediately write off every order Delta, Northwest, US et al the moment they entered Chapter 11? No? Oh well.


User currently offlineJPRM1 From France, joined Aug 2007, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7526 times:

Hello Hamlet69,

Nice to see you back. You are one of the A.netter who decides me to register in this forum as I do trust your very useful thread.
Thanks for this.

As Boeing has a huge number od Unidentified customers, it seems very difficult to put some pending orders as some me be included already in the UFO ?
How to have a better figure?

Thanks
jack.


User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2754 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7425 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
ATA has 60 unfilled orders at Boeing

ATA has 0 outstanding orders, anywhere.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
SX has 62(?) unfilled orders at Airbus

Skybus has not taken a single direct delivery of their 65 frame order yet. All aircraft currently in Skybus colors are leased.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
With all the BK's going on, should we also list "Pending Cancellations"?

No. Pending cancellations open up a lot of questions that cannot be accurately answered. The only exception being in the case of Kingfisher and Air Europa's currently outstanding old-A350 orders. Of course, we could also include Iraqi Airways 5 A310's, but those might remain on the books forever.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 7):
BA 2x318

To be converted from current orders, last I heard. Also heard they might try an A319 for the same role instead.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 7):
Nile Air 9x321

 checkmark 

Quoting LH506 (Reply 7):
Synergy Group 10x350

Although comments from the Group have certainly made it into public record, at the moment the latest is that they were merely in 'discussions' about the possible purchase of these aircraft.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 7):
Al Jaber 2x380
TP 8x320



Quoting LH506 (Reply 7):
Air Arabia 2x320

Source?

Quoting LH506 (Reply 7):
GF 8x320 (I think they mentioned this when they announced the 788s)

They annouced that they had selected the A32X over the 737NG, but so far, that's as far as it had gotten.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 7):
ANA 2x767F

Converted pax 767-300ER's (767BCF)

Quoting LH506 (Reply 7):
GEACS 50x737

Like Synergy, GECAS is "in discussions" for 40-50 more 737NG's. That's all we know so far.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 7):
Nok Air 2x737

Source?

Quoting LH506 (Reply 7):
Orient Thai 12x737 and 8x787

If this actually goes through, last I heard is that they will be leased.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 9):
Here's another pending from the AA Q1 report:

Quote:
Fleet Reduction/Replacement
Arpey also said that AMR will make additional reductions to its 2008 capacity plan and is accelerating the replacement of its MD-80 fleet with more efficient Boeing 737-800s. AMR expects to take delivery of 34 Boeing 737-800 aircraft in 2009 and 36 Boeing 737s in 2010. Of these, the company has firm commitments in place for 27 Boeing 737s to be delivered in 2009 and three 737s to be delivered in 2010.

That's 40 x 738 for AA pending.

AA will certainly keep ordering aircraft. But how much is a question. Despite their Q1 report, AA actually have 52 unfilled 737-800's, not 30. This report does not provide enough info to list a "Pending" order here.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 10):
As you might as well remember, early months of 2007 there were big news about A5 getting 20 B737-800s or at least that's what the airline and Boeing Chief for Latan in Mexico were telling to the media and so far still no info.

Indeed I do remember. I was going to drop Avolar off my list, but then they reiterated their plan to get 20 new 737's, only this time they mentioned -700's instead of -800's. However, that was last winter, and still nothing, so I'm starting to doubt this order will see the light of day.


Regards,

Hamlet69  profile 



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineKL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1585 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7410 times:

Great that your back. Hopefully you'll update it regularly.

Quoting Hamlet69 (Thread starter):
Cancellations
Eurofly - 3 A350-800
TAM - 10 A350-900
U.S. Airways - 12 A318

Quick question, maybe it seems Im a bit behind news now a days, has TAM Cancelled 10 A359 and re-ordered 10 A359's(per your order list)?

or is this suppose to be Air Europa's order which they cancelled and ordered B787's instead?

Thanks

Drew



AMS-LAX-MNL
User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2754 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7327 times:



Quoting JPRM1 (Reply 15):
As Boeing has a huge number od Unidentified customers, it seems very difficult to put some pending orders as some me be included already in the UFO ?
How to have a better figure?

JPRM1,

It is certainly a difficulty and not one I would easily brush aside. However, to put your mind a rest, let me offer a little more information, where I can.

First, rest assured that I have not included any "Pending" widebody orders that have already been ordered as UFO. I give you a 100% guarantee on that!  Wink (for those of you who know what that means, please, you know I can't be more specific)

For the narrowbodies, let's compare current UFO's with announced "pending" orders:

09/06/06: 10 -800
11/03/06: 1 -800
12/31/06: 3 -800
03/30/07: 4 -800
04/11/07: 2 -800
04/26/07: 15 -800
08/29/07: 16 -800
09/28/07: 34 -800
10/04/07: 5 -800
10/31/07: 1 -800
11/15/07: 30 -800
12/04/07: 6 -700
9 -800
12/27/07: 15 -800
01/28/08: 17 -700
02/11/08: 1 -800
02/20/08: 15 -700
15 -800
02/27/08: 1 -700
03/11/08: 40 -800
03/12/08: 1 -800
03/18/08: 6 -800
03/20/08: 2 -700

If we compare this list to the "Pending" list in the thread starter, you'll find there is very little overlap which would create the possibility that some of the "Pending" orders announced have already been signed. The exceptions are SpiceJet and Iraqi Airways. For the latter, they have not signed their 787 deal yet, and it would be strange (although not impossible, mind you) for them to sign the deals seperately. For now, we'll have to conclude that it is still pending. For SpiceJet, the only one that stands out is the oldest UFO order on there. However, they placed another order in April 07, so if 9/06/06 was them, why still keep it unidentified?

Of course, there is always the possibilty that the airline in question has changed their requirements from the announcement to the actually signing of the order, and increased/decreased the amount specified. However, I think it stands to reason that there is a good possibilty currently that none of the UFO orders on Boeing's books are for "Pending" contracts.


Regards,

Hamlet69  profile 



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2754 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7317 times:



Quoting KL808 (Reply 17):
Quick question, maybe it seems Im a bit behind news now a days, has TAM Cancelled 10 A359 and re-ordered 10 A359's(per your order list)?

or is this suppose to be Air Europa's order which they cancelled and ordered B787's instead?

Yes, that is exactly what has happened. The way Airbus is booking 'converted' A350 orders is to cancel the original contract for the old version, and sign a new order for the A350XWB.

Air Europa, as of 3/31/08, still has 10 A350 (old version) on order.


Regards,

Hamlet69  profile 



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineJPRM1 From France, joined Aug 2007, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7239 times:



Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 18):

Hamlet69,

Thank you for the explanation and the well documented list. This will help to follow.
Ragards
Jack


User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5237 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6947 times:



Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 16):
Indeed I do remember. I was going to drop Avolar off my list, but then they reiterated their plan to get 20 new 737's, only this time they mentioned -700's instead of -800's. However, that was last winter, and still nothing, so I'm starting to doubt this order will see the light of day.

Hi Hamlet69!! I then would drop it of your list. If there ever is an order, maybe we will not it right away!! But for now... perhaps it would be better to delete it. Its very sick to follow Mexican orders!! Remember AM B777s? A total nightmare...

g77



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21589 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6930 times:



Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 16):
AA will certainly keep ordering aircraft. But how much is a question. Despite their Q1 report, AA actually have 52 unfilled 737-800's, not 30. This report does not provide enough info to list a "Pending" order here.

But aren't the other 22 for like 2012/2013 delivery or something like that? That's how I recall it.

The report says more will be delivered in 2009 and 2010. It is unclear if that means 40 more option conversions, or bringing the 22 forward plus 18. Usually these quarterly and yearly reports project fleets for the next two fiscal years.

But if you are going to list something like Avolar as pending because they talked about their plan than AA saying it will happen, including exact numbers and years, in a quarterly report surely is more reliable...  Wink



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2754 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6563 times:

****************************UPDATE*********************************


Big version: Width: 150 Height: 50 File size: 2kb

Firm
Boeing Business Jets - 3 737NG*, 1 747-8I
SAS - 1 737NG*
Southwest Airlines - 13 737-700 (also identified 3 former UFO orders)
Unidentified - 2 737NG*


Totals
Gross: 339
Net: 338
Pending: 131 (removed Avolar)


Regards,

Hamlet69  profile 



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineBravo1Six From Canada, joined Dec 2007, 399 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6508 times:



Quoting N328KF (Reply 6):
Normally, the manufacturers don't seem to take kindly to production slots being sold by airlines, but does insolvency change this?

The production slots (they are actually delivery slots) are set out in the purchase agreement between the manufacturer and the airline. The airline can't transfer its delivery slots to another airline without the manufacturer's consent (there can be exceptions for affiliated companies, i.e., Delta might have a right to transfer a delivery slot to Comair, etc., without consent). Insolvency doesn't change that - a court can't order an unwilling manufacturer to transfer a delivery slot to another party.


25 Post contains links LH506 : Although comments from the Group have certainly made it into public record, at the moment the latest is that they were merely in 'discussions' about
26 Hamlet69 : Thanks! Missed that one. Link doesn't work. Regards, Hamlet69
27 Post contains links PanAm_DC10 : Add the following to pending though I believe it warrants a question mark as to whether it's a UFO. 20 x 737 for Xiaman Airlines SHANGHAI, April 20 (R
28 Post contains links Flying-Tiger : Finally an UFO cleared: http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...story/04-21-2008/0004796500&EDATE=
29 Hamlet69 : Definitely not from CASCG, as already mentioned those aircraft are all assigned. In fact, not sure why the reporter even mentioned it, as Boeing book
30 SKY1 : UX asked Boeing a delay in their B738 deliveries. Does anybody more information about it?
31 Ikramerica : My bad, I saw AirTran on the Boeing list and read ATA. AirTran has 60 unfilled orders. Which still is a precarious order in the long term...
32 Post contains images Hamlet69 : ************************************UPDATE******************************** Pending Airbus Corporate Jets - 2 A380-800 (Al-Jaber Group) Synergy Group -
33 Moo : Do we have a confirmed source on these? All I've seen are vague interests.
34 Hamlet69 : Both are on Airbus's website. Although I was not able to find them by going through Airbus's own search engine (can anyone figure that out?), I was a
35 Moo : I can only find the 'we are interested in' comments from Al-Jabar regarding the A380, certainly nothing to indicate an MoU or LoI has been signed.
36 Post contains links and images Scbriml : This was "announced" at Paris last year. IIRC, Leahy said the MOU was at a "very preliminary stage". Whatever that means. Edit - it would seem an LOI
37 Hamlet69 : LH506, I definitely appreciate the time you took in looking up these sources. However, at this point in time, I'm going to have to disagree with your
38 Post contains links Zeke : Both BA and Grupo Marsans are still listed as commitments in the Airbus books. They have not updated the list since last year http://www.airbus.com/s
39 Scouseflyer : Another order that baffles me is the DAE order for 70 A320s and 30 A350s that was supposed to of been firmed last year (the equivalent Boeing one was
40 Sirtoby : BA ordered the A380 in late 2007. Just take a look at the Excel Spreadsheet...
41 Moo : The Air Asia order for 25 A320 was announced as firm via Airbus press release in December 2007, but did not appear on the order books until February
42 Post contains links ENU : Four A320's for Tiger Airlines. Source: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/73ed3c88-1...c-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1
43 Post contains links Ivo : Hamlet69, April 11 2008: Firm order Aer Lingus 6x A330-300 and 6x A350-900 http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...11_aer_lingus_a350900_a330300.html I
44 Scouseflyer : Some good business for the Airbus wides this year so far with the A330 and A350 getting a number of orders the A320 is lagging a little this year but
45 Post contains links Ikramerica : Interesting because it isn't reflected on their website and would amount to a doubling of their fleet in one transaction. http://www.bocaviation.com/
46 Scouseflyer : " target=_blank>http://www.bocaviation.com/fleet_sum...bnail I understood what Zeke was meaning was that BOC had moved their orders up the queue to t
47 Ikramerica : BOC has 20 A320 orders. So that leaves 42, and still means the 62 A320s of SX are canceled, just some airlines/companies are moving up in line. Slots
48 Kogge : There were some reports in the past that Skybus had arranged financing for 13 of their ordered A319 from BOC Aviation with deliveries in 2009 & 2010.
49 Scouseflyer : That makes sense now! I would expect many of the rest to be snaffled up pretty quickly too - these order slots with thier paid deposits will be one o
50 Moo : I would be *extremely* surprised if the SX slots became available within 2008. Cancellations do not happen overnight, and SX is still in bankruptcy pr
51 Post contains images Hamlet69 : ****************************UPDATE********************************* Firm Aer Lingus - 6 A330-300, 6 A350-900 Cancellations Air Europa - 10 A350-800 Pe
52 HawkerCamm : I guess Airbus have started saving for Farnborough
53 Ikramerica : Boeing hasn't had orders either. It might just be the global credit problems and high oil prices…
54 Post contains images Hamlet69 : ****************************UPDATE***************************** Firm Asiana Airlines - 2 777-200ER El Al Israel Airlines - 4 777* Oman Air - 6 737NG*
55 FRNT787 : A solid week for Boeing in my opinion. Would love to see some more UFOs identified, but time will eventually tell.
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