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How Is NW BDL-AMS-BDL Performing?  
User currently offlineEmiratesUK From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 288 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7444 times:

Been a while since this route was mentioned and was wondering how it is performing?

What are the loads like? good? bad?

Checking online and the front end seems busy most day but is it making a profit?

Any feedback would be great

Cheers


EK A380 Private suite - Here I come!!
38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4646 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7448 times:

Loads were in thr 40's (%) for the month of february, havent seen march #'s yet.


Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7278 times:



Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 1):
Loads were in thr 40's (%) for the month of february,

ouch!
....wouldn't be so bad if they had full J at decently high fares though.


User currently offlineFlyingcat From United States of America, joined May 2007, 541 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7215 times:

Oil is shooting higher and higher. At this rate point to point is looking really risky for any airline.

User currently offlineDoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3402 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7183 times:



Quoting Flyingcat (Reply 3):
At this rate point to point is looking really risky for any airline.

Is any NWA flight to AMS really p2p?



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3194 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7135 times:



Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 2):
....wouldn't be so bad if they had full J at decently high fares though.

From what I've seen, World Business goes full or nearly full on every flight, and not just upgrades either it tends to sell full.

Quoting Doug_Or (Reply 4):
Is any NWA flight to AMS really p2p?

Both AMS and NRT are considered hubs for NWA. So, they can get away with routes like PDX-NRT, BDL-AMS, and the like, as they are not really p2p.



A340-500: 4 engines 4 long haul. 777-200LR: 2 engines 4 longer haul
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7533 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7091 times:



Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 1):
Loads were in thr 40's (%) for the month of february, havent seen march #'s yet.

Most europe loads were like that in February.


For the rest of this month the average load factor so far is 95%



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineDC10Widebody From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7042 times:

Interesting little route, I don't know why but I am dying to fly it....probably never will. Are they still trucking the catering for that flight from BOS? I seem to remember hearing that at some point.


Cheers thanks a lot.
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7529 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7003 times:

Prior to the NW-AF codeshare DTW-CDG used to go out with a 30-40% LF in Jan-Feb, so its all relative. TATL flying drops significantly for a ~6-8 week period beginning in January.

User currently offlineThestooges From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6951 times:

Where is the wingletted 757-200 that flies that route based, and where are the crew based ? BDL, AMS or somewhere else ?

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22734 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6915 times:



Quoting Thestooges (Reply 9):
Where is the wingletted 757-200 that flies that route based, and where are the crew based ? BDL, AMS or somewhere else ?

DTW, as is the BOS-AMS 75A crew.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSK601 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 976 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6906 times:



Quoting Thestooges (Reply 9):
Where is the wingletted 757-200 that flies that route based, and where are the crew based ?

The aircraft/crew flies as follows: BOS - AMS - BDL - AMS - BOS (NW60 - NW97 - NW98 - NW59)


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22734 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6858 times:

Here are the 75A arrivals in AMS

98 BDL 0655
36 DTW 0920
60 BOS 1100

...and the departures

59 BOS 0825
47 DTW 1155
97 BDL 1325

Are they flying a 75A on BOS-DTW now to position an aircraft (NW 385/386)? 55 minutes doesn't seem like a long enough turn at AMS, but that would be required to position the 75A to DTW.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4646 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6813 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 6):
Most europe loads were like that in February.

Northwest Atlantic total was 75-80% for February

For the rest of this month the average load factor so far is 95%

Id be curious to see what the final #'s are, because the route hasnt even broken 70% in the past 6 mos.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineSK601 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 976 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6794 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 12):
Here are the 75A arrivals in AMS

You forgot 2....
NW64 ex EWR arr 06.00 am
NW66 ex EWR arr 10.15 am

Current B757 flights out of AMS:
NW59 AMS - BOS 08.25
NW63 AMS - EWR 10.40
NW47 AMS - DTW 11.55
NW97 AMS - BDL 13.25
NW65 AMS - EWR 15.20

A330 departures from AMS:
NW39/67/35 DTW (67 will become B747 in the summer)
NW41/45/55 MSP
NW37 BOS
NW91 PDX (-200)
NW57 MEM
NW33 SEA (-200)
NW34 BOM (-200)


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22734 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6753 times:



Quoting SK601 (Reply 14):
You forgot 2....

I thought I was missing a destination... and I was

Revised...

64 EWR 0600
98 BDL 0655
36 DTW 0920
66 EWR 1015
60 BOS 1100

59 BOS 0825
63 EWR 1040
47 DTW 1155
97 BDL 1325
65 EWR 1520

Now the flexibility to bridge aircraft to DTW is obvious; 4 flights arrive and only 2 leave more than an hour before 47 leaves, so the aircraft from either EWR or BDL can turn to DTW.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineDelta767 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 238 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6583 times:



Quoting SK601 (Reply 11):

Does this mean the crew works four transatlantic trips in a row overnighting in AMS, BDL, AMS and maybe even BOS on either end if they have to nonrev from DTW to work the trip. Or are they considered positive space since they are working?


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22734 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6530 times:



Quoting Delta767 (Reply 16):
Does this mean the crew works four transatlantic trips in a row overnighting in AMS, BDL, AMS and maybe even BOS on either end if they have to nonrev from DTW to work the trip.

They have quite a lot of flexibility (at least for cabin crew) since NYC is a cabin crew base and they can staff the EWR flights from there. That leaves only BDL and BOS as 'orphans,' and the trips used to be DTW-AMS-XXX-AMS-DTW (but that may have changed).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineDelta767 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 238 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6482 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 17):

That makes for quite a long trip for cabin crew! What happens to the cockpit crew, do they follow the same schedule?


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22734 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6459 times:



Quoting Delta767 (Reply 18):
That makes for quite a long trip for cabin crew! What happens to the cockpit crew, do they follow the same schedule?

I'm actually not sure, as I don't think there are 757 pilots based in NYC, but someone is going to have to confirm that.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3194 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6335 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 19):
I'm actually not sure, as I don't think there are 757 pilots based in NYC, but someone is going to have to confirm that.

NW only has two 757 pilot bases, MSP and DTW.

The MSP 757 pilots tend to do all the NRT trips (deadhead to and from NRT) while the DTW crews tend to do all the TATL routes.



A340-500: 4 engines 4 long haul. 777-200LR: 2 engines 4 longer haul
User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6193 times:

Can they staff the 757 with BOS-based F/As?

-A



What now?
User currently offlineJohnJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1656 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6157 times:

BDL is my normal airport, and I have an upcoming trip to London for which I'd love to take this flight. The problem as I see it are the fares Northwest is charging. My company likes me to take the lowest reasonable fare when booking travel, and out of BDL flying NW BDL-AMS-LHR is more than double the fare of United BDL-IAD-LHR for my travel dates. A connection is a connection, and my company doesn't really care that I'd like to sample the Northwest flight. Perhaps Northwest finds it more profitable to half-fill a plane with high fares vs. filling the plane with lower fares. That's all fine and well, but in the unfortunate event Northwest pulls this flight, there will be claims that the people of Connecticut didn't support it and that BDL doesn't deserve transatlantic service as a result. Believe me, I've tried every way I can think of to take Northwest on this trip but without going to undue measures the fares just aren't in line with the competition.

I've tried other dates as well and this scenario seems consistent with the norm. No way my company is going to go for that. Driving down to JFK is far less money than the Northwest flight, and even taking into account New York traffic the travel time is significantly less. The Northwest fares come down considerably with a Saturday night stay, but even then to get a reasonable fare Northwest was taking me LHR-AMS-DTW-BDL on the return leg. No thanks.

[Edited 2008-04-17 15:03:48]

User currently offlineTR1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 265 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6125 times:

I'm BOS-based for NW. AMS-BDL is part of a six-day trip for us: BOS-AMS (24-hr layover), AMS-BDL (24-hr layover), BDL-AMS (24-hr layover), AMS-BOS. I'm working it starting tomorrow night--if there are any A-netters aboard, introduce yourself and say hi! For me its a nice trip, although I have many colleagues who don't like it because you're away from home so long.

Hope this helps.
Steve


User currently offlineBinMonster From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6014 times:



Quoting JohnJ (Reply 22):
BDL is my normal airport, and I have an upcoming trip to London for which I'd love to take this flight. The problem as I see it are the fares Northwest is charging. My company likes me to take the lowest reasonable fare whe booking travel, and out of BDL flying NW BDL-AMS-LHR is more than double the fare of United BDL-IAD-LHR for my travel dates. A connection is a connection, and my company doesn't really care that I'd like to sample the Northwest flight. Perhaps Northwest finds it more profitable to half-fill a plane with high fares vs. filling the plane with lower fares. That's all fine and well, but in the unfortunate event Northwest pulls this flight, there will be claims that the people of Connecticut didn't support it and that BDL doesn't deserve transatlantic service as a result. Believe me, I've tried every way I can think of to take Northwest on this trip but without going to undue measures the fares just aren't in line with the competition.

Unfortunately Airlines are often forced to price their dumbest competitor. NW is trying to price their product to the origin market out of BDL. In light of fuel cost this is the strategy all airlines should adopt. (Crandall said it the best) However with the economy slow down so has demand. (in some markets at least). So UA may have a soft market on their LHR route and they cut price to gain seats on BDL-IAD-LHR.
NW has gaged the demand on the BDL-AMS route with a 757 versus flying a 747. So by right sizing the aircraft to the market they can in theory demand a higher price on the route. Yes it means letting some traffic go.

It took Delta a loooooooong time to figure this out. Example DL flew the 777 along with other widebodies between ATL-MCO. Yes they filled the seats, but at what cost. (a very low yield and a ticket to bankruptcy)

So my hats off to NW for trying to develop a route to support their AMS hub. If BDL corporate community values the non stop to AMS, NW will have a winner. If the BDL corporate community only values $$$ than your assessment is right on. Besides DL will be looking to redeploy assets to markets that will support rational pricing. If the aircraft can not make money in a market move it to a market that can support it. (ref. ATL-MCO flooded market with 777 - 767-400, etc)


25 RL757PVD : For 2 weeks out BDL-AMS is $587 and BOS-AMS is $807 on an A330
26 ConcordeBoy : Well, consider the opportunity cost of a relatively new 772ER (with at the time, very light utilization) sitting on the ATL tarmac for hours on end..
27 BinMonster : Great helped me make the point. Larger A/C A330 on the BOS-AMS market. Most likely market, greater demand equals higher fare. $$$$$$ BDL-AMS smaller
28 BinMonster : You bring up a great point. In the old days with fuel being cheap, fly a boat load of seats on a short route worked. Now with whats happened over the
29 Afitch7881 : Well it just did this March. BDL-AMS 3,641 AMS-BDL 3,659 Total- 7,300 74% load factor for March
30 B752OS : Great stats. I am wondering where it is you found those? Thanks.
31 Afitch7881 : I get them emailed to me from BDL marketing.
32 Molykote : Althought the point about "opportunity cost" isn't invalid, I think (without a detailed knowledge of DL's technical operations)that the more likely e
33 Jetblueguy22 : How do you sign up? Blue
34 BrianDromey : Fair point. BUT how strong are the business links between BDL and AMS? The only reason I ask is that if a signifant portion of the traffic is transfe
35 PresRDC : I can tell you that my Hartford based industrial conglomerate puts people on that flight all the time, in paid J. Getting a seat is not always easy at
36 JohnJ : In this regard, my company only values $$$. They could care less whether I fly Northwest or British Airways or Air Zimbabwe as long as the fare is in
37 ConcordeBoy : Apparently, it's not all that productive anymore... as they don't do it with Atlanta, and also the -LRs are sitting dormant at Kennedy between turns
38 Flysherwood : I believe that PDX - NRT does very well for NWA.
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