Donder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6659 posts, RR: 23 Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 14632 times:
This route was served in the past and was dropped after 9/11(from memory) so interesting to see it come back especially with LCY-JFK having been announced not so long ago.
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16575 posts, RR: 11 Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 14596 times:
Jeez, the LON-NYC serve is getting more and more operators. When will it be enough of new LON-NYC service??
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16575 posts, RR: 11 Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 14519 times:
Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 3): When they stop making a huge chuck of their revenue from it.
That is true. But I mean it is so amazingly many flights between LON and NYC. Can all this flights really be so profitable??
UAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3355 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 14503 times:
Surprised that MAN-JFK is being dumped, mind you, I am also surprised they are sticking a 777 on the route from LGW.
I wonder how the latter will affect DL on the route. Time will tell I guess.
LH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 55 Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 14273 times:
Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 7): I am also surprised they are sticking a 777 on the route from LGW.
They don't really have a choice, unless they were to introduce a new fleet type to LGW for a single flight.
BA used to operate this route when many of the African flights departed out of LGW. When most of those were transferred the flight lost a lot of feed. I forget when it finally ended. Surprised to see them bring it back, but the southeast of England can definitely support it and many will appreciate not having to schlep over to LHR to get to New York on BA.
Does anyone think this is BA trying to secure as much traffic as possible for when the US start cracking down on restrictions against expansion at JFK? I'm not exactly sure how that's going to work but would these slots be grandfathered so that even if BA were to reduce service for the time being they could always use one of these slots at a later date. I mean, it's crazy to think that BA will have 8 daily to LHR, 1 daily to LGW, 1 daily to LCY, 1 daily to MAN (if rumours of its demise turn out to be false), 1 daily to Paris (ORY or CDG?), and 1 daily to BRU (isn't that part of the plan as well?). That means up to 13 flights a day. That's crazy!
LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
BAStew From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 1007 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 14225 times:
It will be interesting to see the kind of possible feed BA will have onto this service with its short-haul routes from LGW - Antalya, Bologna, Boredaux, Dubrovnik, Genoa, Izmir, Jersey, Malta, Marseille, Naples, Newquay, Pisa, Sarajevo, Tirana, Turin, Venice, Verona. None of these cities are served from BA at LHR and few have any non-stop service to New York. Will be interesting to see.
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16575 posts, RR: 11 Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 14181 times:
Quoting BAStew (Reply 11): It will be interesting to see the kind of possible feed BA will have onto this service with its short-haul routes from LGW
Now I understand more why BA started this service. They can just fill that flight with PAX from their European flights out of LGW
Jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7348 posts, RR: 7 Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 13943 times:
I am surprised they ever stopped flying LGW to JFK.
DiscoverCSG From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 783 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 13875 times:
Quoting LH423 (Reply 10): I mean, it's crazy to think that BA will have 8 daily to LHR, 1 daily to LGW, 1 daily to LCY, 1 daily to MAN (if rumours of its demise turn out to be false), 1 daily to Paris (ORY or CDG?), and 1 daily to BRU (isn't that part of the plan as well?). That means up to 13 flights a day. That's crazy!
T7 at JFK has 12 gates. The PANYNJ website give the following list of carriers there:
AC
BA
CX
IB
NH
QF
UA
US
How in the world, in the evening hours, can that possibly work?
StarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 13812 times:
I think this has everything to do with those Eastern European (especially Polish) flights to the US...
Losing WAW from LHR and the large amount of feed that flight provided to NYC must have hurt.
Why MAN-JFK was dropped..who knows but I expect a backlash.
I was rather hoping for a BA regional expansion with EDI-JFK as well but hey.. if one wants to travel safely with luggage and fly with BA.. you now must go to Paris and fly OpenSkies.
How many airlines retract in their own market and expand internationally ? Just goes to show BA doesnt care for the UK market.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
JFK787NYC From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 808 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 13798 times:
I believe this is a strategic move for them,
We will probably see a lot of different locations open up from LGW for BA. They are probably trying to move the transfer passengers from LHR to LGW, I would not be surprised to see one of the TLV flights move from LHR to LGW as well for transfers from JFK, instead of transfers through LHR.
Jamesontheroad From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 518 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 13765 times:
BA's MAN-JFK has apparently done well enough to justify its continual operation up to now, despite fewer and fewer BA routes to and from MAN. If it goes it's surely going to be taken up by another operator - but who? bmi has superb trans-Atlantic service from MAN with the popular three-class A332, but only has two based there now operating daily ORD and multiple weekly to ANU, BGI and LAS (plus one two-class A332 at LHR operating certain Middle East routes).
BlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2515 posts, RR: 25 Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 13742 times:
Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 17): Why MAN-JFK was dropped..who knows but I expect a backlash.
Mrs Shamu was told today the route is being taken over by Open Skies in October. Interesting if true.
It would confirm what's often been said that for MAN, it was actually a good revenue earner.
By using Open Skies, BA (they will be hoping) keep their customer base whilst finally completing their withdrawal of mainline from MAN and Open Skies treat it as an out station. They're quids in both ways.
Shamu
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
Burnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7411 posts, RR: 9 Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 13183 times:
Quoting Donder10 (Reply 1): This route was served in the past and was dropped after 9/11(from memory) so interesting to see it come back especially with LCY-JFK having been announced not so long ago.
How is a plane going to be able to make from LCY with such a high takeoff weight? I assume this is going to be like a Privatair 319?
"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
Kiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8435 posts, RR: 14 Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 13162 times:
Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 23): How is a plane going to be able to make from LCY with such a high takeoff weight? I assume this is going to be like a Privatair 319?
I believe that Westbound there will be a brief refuelling stop at SNN - but BA apparently are going to try to turn this into an advantage by using the pre-clearance facilities there - Eastbound the flight will be nonstop
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
25 SpeedBird203: Ah.. routes do come back hehe hopefully we see the LHR-DTW come back sometime soon
26 Ib16uk: Has to agree with the statement about Gkirk saying that BA are London Airways I love BA and would love to work for them but they really ARE London Air
27 Richardw: If MAN-JFK is being dropped, what are the aircraft from this route going to do?
28 GT4EZY: Thats all MAN is now anyway, an out station. All handling activity is done by Aviance so no savings would be made in this particular area should Open
29 8herveg: LCY - JFK is actually going to be 2 x daily. Really? I thought they were all 3 class?
30 Burnsie28: don't count on it with NW flying the route here soon.
31 Humberside: Problem will be getting flight times to match. Since many of those routes are once daily, if that, it will mean an overnight in Gatwick one way. Some
32 Edina: And LGW-JFK was known fro having the highest long haul load factors prior to 9/11 - higher even that LOS when that was an LGW route - yet it had the
33 NQYGuy: You're certainly right there, particulary I know the BA NQY flight usually leaves LGW/NQY after all the USA flights have left. Could an Air Southwest
34 RJ111: I guess they're trying to cash in on some relinquished US traffic. Also do you think the PR from the T5 fiasco will have an impact on LHR?
35 Englandair: I'd be VERY supprised if Openskies try coming to UK soil any time soon. The flight crew unions would go loopy!
36 Bongodog1964: LGW - JFK is in the timetable, as is MAN-JFK for the winter timetable; is MAN stopping, or are BA taking bookings to later cancel them ?
37 ManchesterMAN: I'm pretty sure the only 2 carriers that fly from T7 are BA and UA and the latter doesn't have many flights from JFK any more. All the others will li
38 Viscount724: Almost all U.S. carriers have been cutting their domestic capacity and expanding internationally.
39 VV701: With this timetable there are onward same day connections to most if not all of the 40 odd short haul destinations served by BA from LGW for the eastb
40 Trintocan: To be honest, I think that this move is an effort by BA to catch the South London, Surrey, Sussex and Kent markets to JFK more than an effort to offer
41 VV701: Further if you look at other airlines they operate in a similar manner because for a full service operator flying between two airports neither of whi
42 JoFMO: No! Berlin is just not viable for a point-to-point flight which it would be for LH. But LH flies several times daily HAM-LHR, DUS-LHR, CGN-LHR and ST
43 StarGoldLHR: isnt this striking talk ??? thats the whole point..a UK airline is dropping UK-US flights.. in favour of France or elsewhere to US !!! Cutting domest
44 B707forever: Not true, CX operates 4 flights a day, IB 2 (most days), US, quite a few, Ice Air, at least one. The terminal has always been an absolute zoo when I
45 AlitaliaMD11: Terminal 7 is a complete zoo in the afternoon and evening hours at JFK. BA NH FI AC QF CX US UA All operate from Terminal 7 and with the exception of
47 Travelin man: It appears MAN-JFK is indeed cancelled. I received an email from BA today stating: British Airways Route Network changes for Winter 2008 British Airwa
48 BAStew: LOL Warsaw going BACK to LHR after only 5 months at LGW
49 Planesarecool: It's incredible that people are talking about connections to this flight. It's London to New York, one major business city to another. I doubt BA base
50 VV701: In 2001 (according to CAA figures) BA carried a total of 31,775,635 passengers. Of these 4,085,792 or 12.9% were carried on domestic routes. In 2007
52 Rivet42: I think this may actually be quite a smart move for BA, to test the water at LGW... After all, a lot of the premium LON - NYC market is supposed to be
53 AirNZ: I'm not surprised at all......it's BA. And he would be largely correct too.
54 LH423: They all operate from T7. However, as BA are the owners of T7, I'm sure they have the right to negotiate with other carriers to make sure this will a
55 Misbeehavin: They also fly to LCY from DUS, TXL, STR, HAM.. in addition to MUC and FRA. So a good sized operation in London. Haha! And what about LCY-WAW? Is that
56 BAStew: Does anyone know what route the ex MAN 767 will replace the 777 on at LHR?
57 JonnyWishbone: Probably any number of rapidly shrinking routes that BA will be operating from T5 until they get their p*** poor a*** into gear. Saw your apology for
58 8herveg: Is the 777 which is going to operate LGW - JFK coming from LHR then?
59 AIR MALTA: It is amazing how some people here are constatantly bashing BA. And that simply because it is not serving their regions. If they started by not using
61 8herveg: I completly agree. I think people also forget that BA are a business. Cuts need to be made if they are to make money. I don't want to start making a
62 B752OS: I think AA BOS-LHR fits the bill as well.
63 StarGoldLHR: Never lost a bag on Ryanair Never had a delay at Stansted Never slept on the street waiting for an EZ flight Never had a strike on BD (Food / Pilots
64 SKAirbus: Well if the route isn't making any money why should BA keep it up? Surely it doesn't make sense just to maintain a regional presence... MAN is alread
65 BCAL: That is because FR operates from smaller/less congested airports where the chances of a missing bag are lower than the larger/congested airports. STN
66 BY188B: Yes he would, but its getting boring now as is the overuse of the icon and BA are no different to Amsterdam Airways, Rekjavik Airways, Vienna Airways
67 GT4EZY: To be fair, the route does make money otherwise it would have been pulled a long time ago. The BA MAN-JFK has more lives than your average cat. I hav
68 AIR MALTA: Never lost a bag on Ryanair -> off course, Ryanair does not have through check-in, and for the price they charge you for the bags and from the small
69 Jamesontheroad: Nope. When the business class near-lie-flat seats came online, one of the three A332s was reconfigured with 42 J and the remainder Y. Apparently a be
70 Jimbo27L: You beat me to it... It does make me wonder the amount of BA apologists that constantly bang on here. In the air, BA are superb, mainly due to the pr
71 BCA2005: It appears that BA103/102 LHR-YYC-LHR is going to be operated Daily with the B767, to free up the B772 for JFK. Is this an indication of poor perform
72 JonnyWishbone: Where BA lost it with the regions was scrapping Club - people like me were Pi**ed off paying £ 500 to go to Berlin / Hannover etc last minute and pay
73 B747forever: I really doubt that it is that way. BA would never start a route, and knowing that they will shut it down half an year later.
74 Misbeehavin: Here ya go (flights in order of arr / dep times... not indicating turnarounds)... arr JFK --- dep JFK 0030 SFO -- 0600 SFO 0031 LAX -- 0600 IAD 0633
75 HeeBeeGB: Loving Gatwick? IAH and DFW moved to LHR, NCE, SPU, KEF, ABZ all dropped, AMS and JER reduction in frequency, WAW moving from LHR for s08 but then mo
76 Bongodog1964: I'm sure that if BA are withdrawing MAN-JFK it wasn't as high a yielding route as you imply. BA are renowned for deciding routes on pure economics, a
77 DiscoverCSG: Thanks for going to all that trouble! And likewise! There are 12 gates at T7. Which ones are not connected to FIS? Which ones are not widebody-capabl
78 Jacobin777: Seems DL (B752) and PK (4x/weekly-B77E) will be the only carriers on MAN-JFK route for now....[Edited 2008-04-18 10:36:04]
79 Spud757: No real suprise that BA has dropped the MAN-JFK route given it was the only remaining BA longhaul outside of London village. So when will BA rebrand t
80 Jimbo27L: Nice idea...but having thought about it on the way home from work (I really need to get out more!) I dont think VS currently have the equipment to ru
81 Summa767: So, is this new long haul flight it for BA out of LGW for the moment, or will there be more announcements soon?
82 BAStew: Yes it is a bit of change of heart from BA side. To be honest though, the whole future of BA at LGW has been debated for the last couple years within
83 Misbeehavin: God knows I'm no expert, but what about a scenario like this? LHR: Everything - long haul, short haul, leisure, business LGW: O&D-heavy routes to des
84 BALHRWWCC: The LHR 777 is the aircraft that currently operates the YYC. The 767 which currently operates MAN/JFK will be put on the YYC with effect of the beginn
85 Sketty222: :D... complete tosh if there were routes that were very high yeilding, I think BA may have beenthinking about starting them. A the moment though, as
86 Alangirvan: Any chance that MAN-JFK suspension is just a winter break? Does Manchester generate a lot of travel to NY during the cold season? If LGW short haul cr
87 Sflaflight: I still think MIA would be a natural for LGW to complement LHR service, but with Zoom doing FLL-LGW, would it work?
88 Antonovman: Its being reported on PPrune that the MAN - JFK route will be operated by Open Skies, once it gets going. Sounds a bit strange to me
89 AIR MALTA: I don't think BALPA would like that.... Brace for a hot summer!!!!
90 MAH4546: Pretty close to zero chance that is the case. MIA would be a natural fit. It would allow more capacity in the market, without adding premium seats to
92 Planesarecool: Not strictly true. For most of this summer, Virgin's 747-400s will have a combined 15 'spare' sectors each week, so a new daily service could be open
93 BAStew: This would lead to huge industrial problems if it happened. Willie Walsh has been flat out assuring the pilots that OpenSkies will never operate from
94 BALHRWWCC: Willie Walsh would have major problems from Balpa. However with the merger of DL and NW it now looks like BA may finally get the backing of both UK a
95 David_itl: Rather like MAN-JFK? You'd just prefer any London route ahead of any MAN route.
96 Misbeehavin: US also has 3/daily CLT flights: arr JFK -- dep JFK 11:27 --> 12:10 15:00 --> 15:35 22:33 --> 06:20
97 BALHRWWCC: exactly Having operated the MAN-JFK on more than 10 occasions last year. It isn't suprising that BA are given it up. My friends and I have comented t
98 Planesarecool: Yes, because I want them to succeed. With BA pulling out, PK cutting frequencies and DL/CO offering the smallest possible aircraft on the route, it h
99 BALHRWWCC: Also as I said in my last post they could use that 747 to operate ex MAN to destanations such as BOM and DEL in India and BKK or HKG in the Far East
100 ShannoninAMA: Doesn't NW do a BOS-AMS or Hartford - AMS run or something like that as well?
101 Humberside: Yes, NW do BDL-AMS and some other AMS routes from non hub airports. How they regard AMS as a hub, and all AMS flights are part of a joint venture wit
102 8herveg: It would be nice to see more from LGW. But if Im honest it does seem to be a little bit of a strange move for BA to start more long-haul routes from
103 Planesarecool: Not likely to happen. For a start, if they wanted to open up MAN-India routes it would be using an A340-300, at least to start. Bangkok isn't even se
104 Panamair: Yes, it's the NYC-shopping express trips that are driving this route now and UK-originating travelers are pretty much driving the traffic these days
105 BAStew: Cathay did serve the route until 2001 then canned it. BA, like most airlines, operates a 'hub and spoke' network. Ie, we feed flights into one hub th
106 Planesarecool: Thus indicating that if an airline with an extensive hub in Hong Kong can't make the route work, then what hope would VS have? Try telling that to th
107 David_itl: Can someone remind me what BA persuaded CX to do with regards to shuttle services, something that BA could and should have done with the CX route to
108 Alangirvan: We are looking at BA's services from MAN, and BA may struggle to get good yields because BA is the only airline offering point to point MAN-JFK servic
109 LH423: Thanks. I wasn't sure if US served any of the Eastern hubs so I took the chance that they didn't. LH423
110 David_itl: More from the clueless airline, taken from ABTN: "BA still has a daily service to Chicago from Manchester, and the spokesman said there is "no questio
111 Planesarecool: When you have learnt some basic information about how a business works, where the country's main business and tourism centres are and where most of t
113 Alangirvan: The DL service flies into a DL hub at JFK, so it can carry more than just point to point traffic. Though if BA was not tied to one alliance, they cou
114 BCAL: I think ABTN is the more clueless. The BA timetable lists the only direct MAN-ORD service as BA 5107/BA5108, operated by AA using a 767.
115 Cornish: Precisely. Simple airline economics if a carrier wants to improve profits. Instead of just slagging off BA, people need to see that neither bmi or vi
116 David_itl: It's just how the CAA reported it: Hong Kong with 145,000 passengers - the only concession is that the ulimate destination may not be the one with th
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