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Flight Canceled. Compensation  
User currently offlineLh526 From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 2381 posts, RR: 14
Posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3159 times:
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So, my Lufthansa flight GRU-FRA was canceled some weeks ago as one "part of the oxygen system" needed replacement and they had to wait for spares.
We all were treated to free eats, sleeps and other treats and waited for the B744 to be repaired. the next day (20 hrs later) we finally lifted off.

Details are as follows:

Lufthansa flight
Intercont Award ticket in Business C.
Return leg canceled (delayed for 20hrs)
I missed important meeting.
Accomodation was paid by LH.

My question now is: What compensation can I expect for that delay / cancelation? Miles in return??
Calling the LH hotline brought no information at all. But maybe there's a rough rule on what I can expect.

Thanks!  

Mario
LH526

[Edited 2008-04-17 09:15:44]


Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSK601 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 976 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3130 times:

According to the EU regulation, no more than what LH already gave you.

User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3040 times:

So far I dont think any airline has paid any money for that EU Law due to it;s loop hole for "exceptional circumstances". basically this = anything not planned.

Just about anything abnormal can be considered "excpetional"...

pilots being ill.. is exceptional.

Snow in December in Poland is also exceptional.

Even Strikes are exceptional. (even in France ).

Even BA's baggage issues are not normal.

Canceling a flight due to lack of passengers is also not exceptional.

This is a law that means nada.



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlinePurpleBox From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2916 times:



Quoting Lh526 (Thread starter):
Return leg cancelled (delayed for 20hrs)

The return leg was delayed - not cancelled.....

PurpleBox.



Next Flights:STH-ATH-STN (A3), BHX-INV-BHX(BE), LCY-FRA-BOG(LH), EZE-FRA-LHR(LH)
User currently offlineHalophila From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 646 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2870 times:



Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 2):
This is a law that means nada.

Bingo. When I asked for compensation for a cancelled flight on AZ, they said I wasn't entitled because the flight was canceled due to "operational reasons". Now operational reasons can basically mean anything.



Flown on 707, 717, 727, 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 741 742 743 744 74SP 757 753 762 763 772 773 77W D10 DC9 M11 M80 M87
User currently offlineAnalog From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1900 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2810 times:



Quoting SK601 (Reply 1):
According to the EU regulation, no more than what LH already gave you.

What I don't get is why IDB for a few people is bad, but mass denied boarding (cancellation) because of an airline screwup is acceptable.

Quoting Halophila (Reply 4):
was canceled due to "operational reasons". Now operational reasons can basically mean anything.

It means anything. Everything is "operational". Overbooking is operational.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9740 posts, RR: 31
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 2611 times:

Happened to me Wednesday evening when BA 914 LHR-FRA got canx because they could not fix a computer glitch.

Tickets for the Hotel Hoppa, a short night in crappy Ibis on Bath Road and re-booked on the 7:25 am departure next day. Who wants/needs dinner at 11 pm? Breakfast at the excellent new BA T5 lounge, bujt that comes witha C ticket anyhow.

What else should I expect? I expect that an airline does not fly if the material does not function properly and that is exactly what they did.

.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlineIAirAllie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 2600 times:

You already got everything you are entitled to. Sorry. A letter might get you some miles but it doubtful as it appears they handled the situation quite fairly already.

User currently offlineNG1Fan From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 2522 times:

I had an LH fight cancelled MUC-GVA in June last year, when this incredible storm shut down MUC. LH gave me a choice of MUC-GVA flights the next day, paid for accommodation incl dinner/breakfast, and transfers to/from the hotel (a Sheraton not worthy of the name, by the way).

The only downside was that this was a same-day GVA-MUC-GVA trip and I simply had my laptop with me, not expecting to stay overnight.

NG1Fan


User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 2501 times:

Looks like you got all you would be reasonably entitled to for a tech delay.

The worst example I ever came across as far as customer service from LH didn't happen to me but to my wife's best friend.

She was a young Filipino woman, resident in the UK but a Philippines passport holder and travelling alone EDI-FRA-MNL. Departed EDI on time but unusually was not checked through to MNL while checking in at EDI.

Upon arrival at FRA she was issued her boarding card for her connex to MNL. However upon arriving at the gate (well before time) she was told there was a tech problem with the a/c and an equipment change had resulted in a number of pax being off-loaded due to the replacement a/c being smaller. All the other pax off-loaded were given hotel accommodation overnight etc etc. But as my wife's friend was transiting without visa she could not use this option as the German immigration authorities would not permit her to enter the country.

As a result this young woman was abandoned alone in a strange airport, in (to her) a strange country to languish in a transfer lounge for 24 hours. I have never forgiven LH for this shocking treatment.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9740 posts, RR: 31
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 2470 times:



Quoting EDICHC (Reply 9):

As a result this young woman was abandoned alone in a strange airport, in (to her) a strange country to languish in a transfer lounge for 24 hours. I have never forgiven LH for this shocking treatmen

There is another thread about that problem.Not exactly LH's fault and the transit lounge in the B terminal is not the Ritz but rather comfortable by any standards. Many people with valid tickets and boarding passes sleep at the airport by their own choice.

.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlineLH526 From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 2381 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 2443 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 3):
The return leg was delayed - not cancelled.....

Captain came on the PA and called the flight "canceled" The fight the next day had a new flight number.



Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
User currently offlineAY104 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 505 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2399 times:

One cannot expect to be compensated in life every time things do not go just the way we want them to. It appears to me that LH did everything they could.
Cheers,
Carl

[Edited 2008-04-18 06:37:07]


The only thing a customer should expect for his/her loyalty is good service
User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2382 times:



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 10):
There is another thread about that problem.Not exactly LH's fault and the transit lounge in the B terminal is not the Ritz but rather comfortable by any standards. Many people with valid tickets and boarding passes sleep at the airport by their own choice.

On the contrary it was precisely the fault of LH. On this occasion in question a large number of passengers did travel on the replacement a/c. As my wife's friend was a young woman travelling alone and transiting without visa she should have had a degree of priority. If your idea of comfortable is being stranded overnight in a transit lounge being propositioned by total strangers in a language you don't understand well that is an opinion you are entitled to, but one that given our friend's circumstances, I certainly don't share. LH off loaded her becuase she was one of the last to be checked in for the FRA-MNL sector upon her arrival at the transit desk at FRA, hardly her fault as we tried to get BMI (LH agents at EDI) to check her through at origin. BMI at EDI stated that LH blocked them from doing so. This is a classic case of a carrier just treating the passenger as just a number, and in my opinion LH failed our friend badly.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9740 posts, RR: 31
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2371 times:



Quoting EDICHC (Reply 13):
BMI at EDI stated that LH blocked them from doing so. This is a classic case of a carrier just treating the passenger as just a number, and in my opinion LH failed our friend badly

Could it be that BD at EDI told your friend that there was something wroing with the flight to MNL and that that was the reason for the system refusing to print a boarding pass for the FTRA-MNL sector? Could it be that the BD staff told your friend that she could go to FRA and try her lkuck at her risk? If not, blame BD. The way things go these days is that airlines don't have own staff at smaller stations any longer and everything is fully automated.

Stranding passengers goes by sequence numbers whereby the passenger with a status will have priority over a non status passenger.

Besides that, the transit lounge at FRA is a safe place to stay and if your friend was "propostioned", there are always officials she could complain to and they all speak English.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2358 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 14):
Could it be that BD at EDI told your friend that there was something wroing with the flight to MNL and that that was the reason for the system refusing to print a boarding pass for the FTRA-MNL sector? Could it be that the BD staff told your friend that she could go to FRA and try her lkuck at her risk? If not, blame BD. The way things go these days is that airlines don't have own staff at smaller stations any longer and everything is fully automated.

To answer your first point, absolutely not. I was with our friend when she checked in at EDI and all the BD staff said was that the LH system would not permit them to issue a boarding pass, no other reason given. Regarding your second suggestion it would be against the ICAO regulations for passengers transiting without visa to check her in for EDI-FRA if they knew there was a problem with the connecting flight. For check-in staff to make that suggestion could lead to a substantial fine for the carrier. At the end of the day LH is the carrier BD were only agents doing what LH permitted, automated or not.

The 'officials' you refer to were noticable by their absence for long periods of that night.

[Edited 2008-04-18 07:10:36]

User currently offlineEZYAirbus From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2462 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2347 times:

Happened to me in GVA our EZY flight to LTN was cancelled after a technical fault was discovered on the aircraft, spare part was not available in GVA so we had to stay overnight, easyJet paid for hotel and all drinks and meals and airport/hotel transfers

Glenn



http://www.glenneldridgeaviation.com
User currently offlineGeorgebush From New Zealand, joined Jul 2006, 679 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2347 times:



Quoting Analog (Reply 5):
What I don't get is why IDB for a few people is bad, but mass denied boarding (cancellation) because of an airline screwup is acceptable.

Its not denied boarding when there is no aircraft to board, or the aircraft is unsuitable to board.



Al Gore invented global warming.
User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4062 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2323 times:



Quoting EDICHC (Reply 13):
On this occasion in question a large number of passengers did travel on the replacement a/c. As my wife's friend was a young woman travelling alone and transiting without visa she should have had a degree of priority. If your idea of comfortable is being stranded overnight in a transit lounge being propositioned by total strangers in a language you don't understand well that is an opinion you are entitled to, but one that given our friend's circumstances, I certainly don't share.

Lufthansa (and airlines in general) probably take a more commercial approach and simply fill the available seats with high(er) yielding passengers, frequent flyers and/or families etc. first. I also do not see how an airline could explain other customers that they need to be stranded because someone else does not have a visa. It would probably even be unlawful discrimination.


User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 2300 times:



Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 18):
I also do not see how an airline could explain other customers that they need to be stranded because someone else does not have a visa. It would probably even be unlawful discrimination.

Discrimination no, customer care yes. If LH had issues with the connecting flight, our friend should not have been accepted for travel at EDI. She was subjected to a frightening ordeal by incompetence on the part of LH on several counts.

1. Refusing to issue boarding pass at EDI through to MNL thus being sequenced higher (being amongst the last to officially check in for FRA-MNL was the reason given by LH)
2. Accepting a passeger TWOV where doubt existed regarding onward travel (Illegal)
3. Failure to off load lower priority pax who could avail themselves of the accommodation offer.

Needless to say neither us nor our friend ever considered LH again, KLM got our repeat business.


User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4062 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2207 times:



Quoting EDICHC (Reply 19):
Failure to off load lower priority pax who could avail themselves of the accommodation offer.

Well, someone had to be inconvenienced. And obviously Lufthansa thought your friend could be inconvenienced more than others. Looks like a pretty straightforward business decision to me, probably also based on the implications if someone had found out that he was bumped off the flight because he had no visa requirements, i.e. because of his nationality..


User currently offlineChiGB1973 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1619 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 2185 times:



Quoting Lh526 (Thread starter):
My question now is: What compensation can I expect for that delay / cancelation? Miles in return??
Calling the LH hotline brought no information at all. But maybe there's a rough rule on what I can expect.

What compensation you want?

You got free meals, a free place to stay, and your flight home.

I feel like that is enough. Anything more would be above and beyond what LH should provide. Do you want all your miles back for the flight, should everyone on the flight get their money back?

If you had been cancelled at your home airport, I agree some miles would be appropriate as you would not need a hotel or food.

M


User currently offlineMrBrightSide From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 202 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2061 times:



Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 18):

Lufthansa (and airlines in general) probably take a more commercial approach and simply fill the available seats with high(er) yielding passengers, frequent flyers and/or families etc. first. I also do not see how an airline could explain other customers that they need to be stranded because someone else does not have a visa. It would probably even be unlawful discrimination.

Actually, time to pull out JFK-FRA flight on April 24th, 2003. J-pax, booked on JFK-FRA-ZAG. Flight was full, and they started asking for voluteers who would give away their seat to pax that asked for urgency. Yes, there were pax in both J and Y.

I volunteered, got $800 (bear in mind this was pre-EU Regulations), one coupon for next-service-class upgrade (used that for a flight FRA-HKG a bit later), llimo transfer to hotel back on Manhattan, paid dinner/breakfast, transfer back to JFK and a big thank you from one pax that asked around to fly back. Not certain was his story invented or not.

But what LH SHOULD have done is called all pax to ask for volunteer seat give-away and explain the situation. Giving away voucher for the Worldshop store or cash, night in hotel for eglible pax would be a positive move. Plus, only after calling out volunteers and lack of them would be a base for a claim "airline did everything".



There's no better way to travel than fly (shameless rip of LH's slogan ;-)
User currently offlineADXMatt From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 954 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1905 times:



Quoting EDICHC (Reply 9):
She was a young Filipino woman, resident in the UK but a Philippines passport holder and travelling alone EDI-FRA-MNL. Departed EDI on time but unusually was not checked through to MNL while checking in at EDI.



Quoting EDICHC (Reply 9):
But as my wife's friend was transiting without visa she could not use this option as the German immigration authorities would not permit her to enter the country.

I'm just a clueless American but if she is a resident alien of the UK why wouldn't she be allowed to enter Germany? Isn't the EU all one now?

I would think that connecting passengers would be considered priority in any case checked in or not.

Back to the original poster though.....
If a flight goes tech what more would you want them to do? You got meals/hotel and to your destination safely. Machines now matter how well they are maintained sometime break.


User currently offlineAswissinmad From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 148 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1734 times:



Quoting EDICHC (Reply 15):
it would be against the ICAO regulations for passengers transiting without visa to check her in for EDI-FRA if they knew there was a problem with the connecting flight

What does ICAO has to do with it? What ICAO regulation? Or do you mean IATA?
I used to work the transit desk for SR/LX a few years ago and there's no easy solution for transit pax w/o visa stuck due to a canx flight. Some better airport have rooms the airline can rent (like GVA and ZRH) but I don't know if FRA does.
Airline workers are humans. When I dealt with a canx flight I always tried to give priority to certain groups of people, such as families with children and frequent flyers. However I remember that our system didn't show "people without visa" so it was hard to select them in advance for priority rebooking. And most airline employees do their best to treat everyone fairly, at least in Europe.
I also found that some stations that sent us those pax instead of rebooking them did so because they were mostly code-sharing partners handling the flight and were not motivated/interested to re-route.
Or maybe there was nothing they could find from EDI and would rather send the pax to a big hub with better chances to find a reasonable alternative.


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