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Official New England Aviation Thread #5  
User currently offlineDiamond From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3279 posts, RR: 63
Posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10765 times:

#4 had reached over 300 replies. Please continue here.


Blank.
353 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4110 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10763 times:

OK gang. The powers that be have started thread #5 for us here, and there are several topics of interest to New England:

1) The 'new' Delta...do our airports lose further lift than we already have now that Northwest is in their grasp? Will they do to our service to DTW and MSP what they have already done to our service to ATL?

2) Will Southwest start service at Logan in 2009 or beyond?

3) Will Pease ever see commercial air service again? Is there an airline as willing as Skybus was to fly to obscure airports like Pease & Westover?

4) Virgin America...is Boston going to be their New England station?


User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4663 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10751 times:



Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 1):
The powers that be have started thread #5 for us

Yes, Diamond is quite swell  Wink

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 1):
1) The 'new' Delta...do our airports lose further lift than we already have now that Northwest is in their grasp? Will they do to our service to DTW and MSP what they have already done to our service to ATL?

2) Will Southwest start service at Logan in 2009 or beyond?

3) Will Pease ever see commercial air service again? Is there an airline as willing as Skybus was to fly to obscure airports like Pease & Westover?

4) Virgin America...is Boston going to be their New England station?

Yes x 4 Though # 2 may not necessarily be in 2009, and id much rather #4 start with PVD since BOS already has 4 airlines on BOS-LAX!



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineAfitch7881 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 815 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10751 times:

BDL-AMS 3,641
AMS-BDL 3,659

Total- 7,300

74% load factor for March


Airport stats-

March 2008

538,115

(2.30%)

[Edited 2008-04-17 19:17:17]

User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10729 times:



Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 1):
OK gang. The powers that be have started thread #5 for us here, and there are several topics of interest to New England:

1) The 'new' Delta...do our airports lose further lift than we already have now that Northwest is in their grasp? Will they do to our service to DTW and MSP what they have already done to our service to ATL?

2) Will Southwest start service at Logan in 2009 or beyond?

3) Will Pease ever see commercial air service again? Is there an airline as willing as Skybus was to fly to obscure airports like Pease & Westover?

4) Virgin America...is Boston going to be their New England station?

2) Wow, I really would be surprised if WN were to come into BOS and begin service. How likely could this actually be? The main benefit I could see would be them becoming the second carrier on BOS-PHX and BOS-BNA.

4) I think as others have reported, VX is going to have BOS as one of their next few stations by 2009. Yes, BOS-LAX has 4 carriers and 8 daily flights, but a 5th carrier would be just insane.


User currently offlineJawake From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 10696 times:



Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 1):
1) The 'new' Delta...do our airports lose further lift than we already have now that Northwest is in their grasp? Will they do to our service to DTW and MSP what they have already done to our service to ATL?

2) Will Southwest start service at Logan in 2009 or beyond?

If this indeed goes through, I see MSP being on the chopping block. I just do not see the new DL having feeds out of the Northeast to ATL, DTW, CVG & MSP & SLC. Either CVG or MSP will not continue, and I would think MSP would be downsized or disappear. CVG could face a similar fate. MSP, CVG turning into the next STL.

I just do not see WN going head to head with B6 in BOS. They have invested a lot in PVG & MHT, I just don't see the attraction for them to move to BOS.


User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3412 posts, RR: 16
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10684 times:



Quoting Jawake (Reply 5):
I just do not see WN going head to head with B6 in BOS. They have invested a lot in PVG & MHT, I just don't see the attraction for them to move to BOS.

a WN move into BOS would be to protect their interests in the region. It would be sort of like the IAD entry. I'd suspect you'd see BOS-MDW (3-4 flights), BOS-BWI (5-7), BOS-MCO (1-2), and maybe BOS-PHL.

just my 2 cents


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8317 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10677 times:



Quoting LH423, reply=297:
Yeah, but I think this is a different case than DL starting service. Remember, they tried once before. It's hard to start service, especially when you're not on the mind of travellers when it comes to a certain market (i.e. Delta as a transatlantic airline out of Logan). But in this case, DL is walking into a well established market. NW's flight is largely O&D (on this end. I'm sure there are quite a few connections on KL out of AMS) and from all indicators appears to be pretty successful. I'm sure once DL is fully in the driver's seat they'll evaluate all the routes but I think the BOS-AMS route is safe.

Even though I'm a *A FF, I've grown accustomed to NW's AMS flight, and I especially like the late departure, so I'll be disapointed if we lose that. However, I would not be suprised if by next Summer these flights are gone. Of all the legagy carriers, no one is more hub centric than DL. They love to funnel all the traffic through either JFK or ATL. The fact that the BOS-AMS flight does well may not be a factor. Mergers are done to cut costs and if DL doesn't look at AMS as a hub like NW did, I would not be surprised at all to see the flight gone.
However, if the flight stays, I think it would be a huge irony, For years since the first stone was laid down for the new DL terminal at BOS, there's been debate and accusations that DL couldn't start international service from BOS because the bad guys of Massport wouldn't allow them to have immigration and customs facilities at terminal A. Now they find themselves in a position to have to decide on whether to cut existing international service or not  Smile

Quoting BOStonsox, reply=300:
UA also flew BOS-LHR at one point but that didn't work, presumably from the lack of connections on either side.

IIRC, the primary reason for selling the LHR slots was to generate funds to avoid Ch11.


User currently offlineJawake From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 10663 times:



Quoting PVD757 (Reply 6):
a WN move into BOS would be to protect their interests in the region. It would be sort of like the IAD entry. I'd suspect you'd see BOS-MDW (3-4 flights), BOS-BWI (5-7), BOS-MCO (1-2), and maybe BOS-PHL.

just my 2 cents

Good point, and I can see the comparison with IAD and BOS.

I guess the difference for me is that IAD does not have a large LCC presence to begin with, where BOS has B6, even FL. I know IAD has B6, but still not as developed as BOS. But you maybe right, and if the right opportunity comes along, WN may just make the move to BOS.


User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 10661 times:



Quoting PVD757 (Reply 6):
a WN move into BOS would be to protect their interests in the region. It would be sort of like the IAD entry. I'd suspect you'd see BOS-MDW (3-4 flights), BOS-BWI (5-7), BOS-MCO (1-2), and maybe BOS-PHL.

just my 2 cents

In my mind, it would just so weird to see WN flying into BOS. Anyways, I think the routes you mentioned makes sense. I think a WN entry into BOS would hurt both PVD and MHT. It would be nice to have a carrier back on BOS-MDW. I think WN would also do a BOS-BNA route as well.


User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4110 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 10659 times:

It seems like airlines (at least Delta) are focusing on fewer, bigger cities. In the same way that Delta has largely drawn down MHT and PVD in favor of Boston, they've also drawn down Boston in favor of JFK. I guess it's the price the northeast pays for being so densely populated.

I'd like to say that it is 'unfair' for Delta to cut the number of seats between, say, MHT-ATL to a fraction of what it used to be, and then charge a king's ransom for the little RJ flights that still exist. But I stop well short of that, because Delta is a money-making business with stockholders. So, aside from being really disappointed to see the cutbacks this carrier has made here (and probably will make in the future), I'm not quite sure whether to be angry or shrug my shoulders and realize that we're lucky to have what we have.

United, to a degree, has followed the Delta model by ratcheting the number of seats at MHT/PVD downward.

I don't even know if a complete reversal in the price of aviation fuel would matter, because I sense that this is not all about that. Delta was cutting way back at MHT/PVD long before the oil thing became Topic #1.


User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4110 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 10661 times:



Quoting PVD757 (Reply 6):
I just do not see WN going head to head with B6 in BOS. They have invested a lot in PVG & MHT, I just don't see the attraction for them to move to BOS.

Officials at Southwest Airlines have decided that Shanghai will be its first international destination. In related news, the carrier will cease all service at Providence.  duck 

Film at Eleven.  stirthepot 


User currently offlineJohn From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1374 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 10657 times:

What is the progress on the proposed PVD runway 5/23 extension? Have they agreed on the length yet?  banghead   Silly

Also, WN doesn't really need to fly to BOS and it especially doesn't make much sense right now, given the current economic downturn and soaring fuel prices.


User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4663 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 10647 times:

I dont think WN at BOS will shake things up too much, and i dont think it would hurt PVD/MHT much if at all. Any city theyd go to from BOS would probably be served by PVD. They dont have anyone to kill or anyone making massive cuts to grow like they have in DEN PIT or PHL. The interesting part would be FL sicne they have had a stronghold on that route for years now.

Im not sure about 2009, but I would actually put money on it happening within 5 years. PHL, MDW, MCO, PHX, BWI probably with a total of like 12-14x, whereas PVD has 27x to those cities.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineJawake From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 10646 times:



Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 10):
I'd like to say that it is 'unfair' for Delta to cut the number of seats between, say, MHT-ATL to a fraction of what it used to be, and then charge a king's ransom for the little RJ flights that still exist.

Don't get me started on this, $900 for MHT-ATL on DL, they are crazy. I have so wanted to see FL come in and compete on this route, but with the way things are right now, fat chance.

I think airports like MHT will have a hard time this year, Legacy Carriers are wanting to cut capacity across the country, and that I think will in effect hurt MHT, PVD, PWM, & BDL. And of that group, MHT & PVD will probably feel it the most. BOS has nothing to worry about.


User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 10634 times:



Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 13):
I dont think WN at BOS will shake things up too much, and i dont think it would hurt PVD/MHT much if at all. Any city theyd go to from BOS would probably be served by PVD. They dont have anyone to kill or anyone making massive cuts to grow like they have in DEN PIT or PHL. The interesting part would be FL sicne they have had a stronghold on that route for years now.

Im not sure about 2009, but I would actually put money on it happening within 5 years. PHL, MDW, MCO, PHX, BWI probably with a total of like 12-14x, whereas PVD has 27x to those cities.

Which FL are route are you referring to? BOS-BWI? FL runs 8 x daily flights and it would be interesting to see what affect WN would have. It's interesting to see how BWI is the preferred gateway to D.C. for PVD and MHT.

Quoting Jawake (Reply 14):
Don't get me started on this, $900 for MHT-ATL on DL, they are crazy. I have so wanted to see FL come in and compete on this route, but with the way things are right now, fat chance.

That's insane they charge that much. I know there is another person, PVD757 or FLPVD whichever one currently lives down in Altlanta, has mentioned extremely high prices on ATL-PVD. For that kind of money, you could buy a rountrip ticket to NRT or ICN!


User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4663 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10618 times:



Quoting B752OS (Reply 15):
That's insane they charge that much. I know there is another person, PVD757 or FLPVD whichever one currently lives down in Altlanta, has mentioned extremely high prices on ATL-PVD.

That would be me  Smile i used PVD ONCE last year and that was only for a departure after DL dropped my BOS flight to a different time and i made them change my reservation to PVD no charge. I used to use PVD upwards of 10x a year when i lived in Florida. At the rate its going, 2008 might be my first PVD-less year, but im sure im one of the many where ATL-PVD just isnt feasible on the fares they want to charge. Im a DL flyer, but id have to change my allegiance to FL if they started PVD, simply as a thank you!

Outside of ATL, PVD has some low hanging fruit for someone like FL with PBI and RSW which are perfect for them also



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8897 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10607 times:

I've even started avoiding MHT again due to BOS being more affordable. I'll be making two trips to BOS next month, simply because DL had a ton more options into BOS (hard to choose when you've got a handful of flights and they're price-gouging on a CRJ-700. I'll take the CRJ-900s I'm booked on to BOS (both are CVG-BOS inbounds) and at least have a chance at a seat in First Class.

User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10606 times:



Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 16):
That would be me i used PVD ONCE last year and that was only for a departure after DL dropped my BOS flight to a different time and i made them change my reservation to PVD no charge. I used to use PVD upwards of 10x a year when i lived in Florida. At the rate its going, 2008 might be my first PVD-less year, but im sure im one of the many where ATL-PVD just isnt feasible on the fares they want to charge. Im a DL flyer, but id have to change my allegiance to FL if they started PVD, simply as a thank you!

Outside of ATL, PVD has some low hanging fruit for someone like FL with PBI and RSW which are perfect for them also

Personally, I am not a fan of DL, and have not flown them since 2004 (I am a UA loyalist) and would love to see FL come into at least PVD and run 5-6 daily flights and undercut the DL fares and see what happens to the market. They already came into BTV and PWM in addition to BOS, so why not PVD? Or even MHT? I would rather fly on a 717 or possibled a 73G than a small CRJ-700 any day.


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8317 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10595 times:



Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 17):
I've even started avoiding MHT again due to BOS being more affordable. I'll be making two trips to BOS next month, simply because DL had a ton more options into BOS

I've been making that argument for almost as long as I've been a amember on this site  Smile
People moan and complain about BOS, and Massport, and the traffic, and high cost of parking. But in the end, BOS is still cheaper and more convenient even when you factor in the parking and drive. And when you have multiple people traveling, it makes a huge difference.
Speaking of which, on my latest trip I parked at this new(?) Pre Flight off airport parking facility in Chelsea. With the online discount I paid only $70+ for a week. I was thouroughly impressed by the service and convenience that they provide and I have to say, at a very reasonable price. If you guys are not familiar with it, I strogly recommend it. It's a lot more convenient and cheaper than Logan's own "economy" parking and they have 24x7 staffed security.


User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4663 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10596 times:



Quoting B752OS (Reply 18):
Personally, I am not a fan of DL, and have not flown them since 2004 (I am a UA loyalist) and would love to see FL come into at least PVD and run 5-6 daily flights and undercut the DL fares and see what happens to the market. They already came into BTV and PWM in addition to BOS, so why not PVD? Or even MHT? I would rather fly on a 717 or possibled a 73G than a small CRJ-700 any day.

FL has a market ready for it in PVD, because DL wont respond significantly. With even 3-4 flights they would instantly be the maket leader. Whats tough is that the O&D just looks so bad from years of abuse by DL Really PVD-ATL should look much different than someplace like BUF-ATL, im sure even ROC has more than double the ATL O&D even though the airport is 1/2 the size in terms of annual enplanements. Unfortunately i can see FL doing PWM-ATL before theyd ever to MHT-ATL.

I think FL will start BDL and PVD within the next 5 years, right now its a matter of which one comes first, and really its a good toss up.

1) go to PVD which has 1/2 the ATL O&D, but minimal DL competition and open markets for PBI and RSW

2) go to BDL which has double the O&D but at equally high fares, but go up against a harsh DL response on all fronts including florida with the exception of RSW.

DL is going to hand their ass to them on a silver platter at BDL, but their ATL #'s must be appealing to FL



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 10590 times:



Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 20):
FL has a market ready for it in PVD, because DL wont respond significantly. With even 3-4 flights they would instantly be the maket leader. Whats tough is that the O&D just looks so bad from years of abuse by DL Really PVD-ATL should look much different than someplace like BUF-ATL, im sure even ROC has more than double the ATL O&D even though the airport is 1/2 the size in terms of annual enplanements. Unfortunately i can see FL doing PWM-ATL before theyd ever to MHT-ATL.

I think FL will start BDL and PVD within the next 5 years, right now its a matter of which one comes first, and really its a good toss up.

1) go to PVD which has 1/2 the ATL O&D, but minimal DL competition and open markets for PBI and RSW

2) go to BDL which has double the O&D but at equally high fares, but go up against a harsh DL response on all fronts including florida with the exception of RSW.

DL is going to hand their ass to them on a silver platter at BDL, but their ATL #'s must be appealing to FL

I don't know if FL would enter PVD-PBI, I would think PVD-RSW would be the better option. I think if you had a lower fare on PVD-ATL the market would increase a substantial amount. It would be tough to justify spending $800-$900 on a plane ticket alone on a short flight like PVD-ATL for a business traveler.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 19):
I've been making that argument for almost as long as I've been a amember on this site
People moan and complain about BOS, and Massport, and the traffic, and high cost of parking. But in the end, BOS is still cheaper and more convenient even when you factor in the parking and drive. And when you have multiple people traveling, it makes a huge difference.
Speaking of which, on my latest trip I parked at this new(?) Pre Flight off airport parking facility in Chelsea. With the online discount I paid only $70+ for a week. I was thouroughly impressed by the service and convenience that they provide and I have to say, at a very reasonable price. If you guys are not familiar with it, I strogly recommend it. It's a lot more convenient and cheaper than Logan's own "economy" parking and they have 24x7 staffed security.

I think it really boils down to preference. I only use BOS as not only do I live closer, I do a lot of west coast and international flying and prefer the non-stops and larger planes. Also, BOS is not a tough airport to get to, if you drive there during peak times you will hit some traffic, but coming from the south and west is a lot easier now thanks to the big did and the ted williams tunnel. There is a reason parking is so expensive, people pay for it and the lots at logan and the logan express stops are always full or almost full. I park at the airport and don't mind paying a few extra bucks for the convenience.


User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4663 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 10573 times:



Quoting B752OS (Reply 21):
I don't know if FL would enter PVD-PBI, I would think PVD-RSW would be the better option

PBI averages 140 pax per day each way (280 total O&D) annually and thats with no nonstop service, more than enough for a 717

RSW is even better 182 esch way each day (365 toal O&D) and thats with no nonstop service after april of based on 2007 #'s Q1 had over 600 O&D with NK, so they could easily run a 2nd RSW Dec-May.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3412 posts, RR: 16
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 10566 times:



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 19):
But in the end, BOS is still cheaper and more convenient even when you factor in the parking and drive.

and again, depending on where you live in eastern NE, and which market you are flying to, MHT or PVD is still a better overall option.

PVD to places like BWI, PHL, MCO, and Chicago hold their own overall versus BOS.

PVD has on-site parking (economy lot E with new bumper to bumper shuttle service and garage C) for $56.00 per week. Off site parking (directly across the street from the terminal) is even less in some cases.

Having said all that, if your first choice in air travel is schedule (versus price), BOS has the overall hands-down/no argument advantage. In many cases, both schedule and price is better in BOS.

Otherwise, for some folks, a premium for an overall less stressful airport experience is worth paying more for a ticket with fewer flight options.

The other wildcard in choosing is airline preference. WN lovers and Star alliance loyalists can get more to most large markets from PVD, whereas B6, FL, Oneworld, and Skyteam has much better choices from BOS.


User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 10551 times:



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 7):
Of all the legagy carriers, no one is more hub centric than DL

I'd argue that CO is more hub centric than DL. CO don't even really have hub cities. They firmly believe in the hub and spoke and almost everything is routed through IAH, EWR, and CLE.

That said I'm still not convinced. That would only leave AF (and, theoretically, AZ but who knows where they'll be in a year) as a transatlantic SkyTeam airline. The only way I could see DL dropping the AMS flights is if KL said they'd be willing to immediately step in. BOS is in the top 5 markets to Europe out of the US and leaving AMS empty would be a huge hole and would put too much pressure on AF. Fact is, DL would be ceding market share. It would be INCREDIBLY arrogant to think that people are going to give up nonstops to fly through their shithole at JFK.

I would bet money that at least one of the AMS flights will remain. Considering the market is pretty much standalone since only IND is the only city NW flies to out of BOS that doesn't have an AMS connection. So, I'd be incredibly surprising if DL were to cancel it and would only see it happening if KL were waiting in the wings and I don't know if they have the aircraft to open a new market.

So do you think that DL will shut down all non-hub international flying? What about PDX and SEA?

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
25 B752OS : I think DL does a ton more P2P flying than most legacy carriers. I would say that either UA or CO are the most hub centric. DL has a bunch of focus c
26 BOStonsox : I don't know if MSP would be de-hubbed, especially with the offices they are keeping there and the huge O&D that MSP has. CVG is as good as gone sinc
27 LH423 : That's a loss of 6 flights. Though I believe KL already have one flight to EWR, it would still be a loss of capacity and a serious blow to the AMS hu
28 Cadet57 : Our city has met with consultants to try and create a package to get another carrier to Westover. As of right now the only ones I can invision are G4
29 RL757PVD : I would think G4 would do well from there, maybe some other charter type flights like what you see flying to MYR
30 Cadet57 : Doesnt Pace opperate charters to MYR?
31 BOStonsox : Wasn't Colgan Air cutting back on some routes out of BOS? LEB and IIRC Augusta, ME and maybe some other Maine cities are losing service. Maybe 9K coul
32 Nbgskygod : Cape was in Lebanon last week to talk to the airport folks about a LEB-BOS leg. In the last thread it was mentioned that Colgan was trying to get out
33 LH423 : I didn't know LEB or AUG still had service. I remember when I was younger my dad had a meeting in Lebanon and he took me along but rather than have m
34 KPWMSpotter : Colgan does operate a couple more routes up to Maine (all of which may be on the chopping block now...) These include AUG and RKD on B1900s, and PQI
35 Nbgskygod : Colgan operates out of LEB as well, 3 flights a day to LGA. In the morning and the last flight is a Beech 1900, while the mid-day flight is a Saab 34
36 WarRI1 : I just needed to make a reply to get on number 5.
37 Bobnwa : If you think DL is going to downsize or disappear MSP then I would say you are fairly alone in that opinion among analysts and airline people includi
38 Jawake : CEO say a lot of things when a merger takes place, don't give that too much weight. Just ask the folks at STL what was told to them when AA took over
39 Bobnwa : Agreed, we might see either CVG,MSP, or DTW lose its MHT flight but I guarantee you that MSP will not downsize or disappear as you stated. DL would c
40 Jawake : I would agree CVG is in bigger trouble than MSP, and I could see MHT-CVG flight disappear first out of MHT. So I may have overstated my case earlier
41 LH423 : I knew I forgot some. Like Rockland... ...and Presque Isle I've said it before and I'll say it again: Goodbye Cincy, it's been fun. There is no need
42 Bobnwa : Repeat, MSP and ATL as hubs for new DL will be equally important. MSP will very likely be more profitable than ATL just like it is currently more pro
43 RL757PVD : The day an LCC enters MSP that will change, something that is getting closer with each passing day. Many people fail to recognize just how much O&D t
44 B752OS : Sure MSP is valuable, but the Minneapolis/St. Paul market is not even a top 20 U.S. O&D destination and not a top 10 U.S. O&D destination for Europe.
45 BOStonsox : Speaking of MSP, I'm surprised that there is only one airline on the BOS/PVD/MHT-MSP route. MSP is probably the biggest city without a second airline
46 RL757PVD : Because the market is absolutely suffocated from high fares, were talking like $300+ each way for alot of places 45% of 90 million is ALOT of O&D!!!
47 WarRI1 : Today, I realized that I was confusing the Embraer 190 with the 320, I did not realize that Embraer made such a large aircraft. The 320 is only five
48 RKDflier : Also KBHB. I just did a RKD-KBHB-KBOS;KBOS-BAUG-KRKD trip not long ago.
49 B752OS : Haha, I based my comment off of personal preference. I have been to Minneapolis 6 or 7 times and while the city is nice and pretty clean, there reall
50 BOStonsox : I've done both and I liked them about equally and they (along with Rome) are on my list of places I want to go back to sometime. I think that when it
51 B752OS : Are you saying than ATL is a smaller O&D base than BOS. If that is the case, then I don't think that's quite right. Atlanta and its metro area is big
52 BOStonsox : I'm talking about the direction that the passengers are travelling in. For instance, look at IB's BOS flights. I guarantee you that there are far more
53 B752OS : I get what you are saying. It will be interesting to see what happens with B6 and their EI and LH agreements and if those will extend past JFK (Right
54 BOStonsox : As of now the EI deal is only good for JFK. I saw an article recently about how the B6/LH deal is coming along and it said the most likely cities pax
55 Jawake : What I don't understand is how UA & US are feeling about this as they are Star Alliance partners with LH. I mean, doesn't this go against the whole c
56 BOStonsox : Not if B6 joins the *A. But yeah, that is weird. BOS already has LX and will have HP soon, although HP is not in the *A for whatever reason. BMI and
57 Post contains links B752OS : Speaking of the prospect of WN adding BOS service, I came across this article on Bostonherald.com about that issue. http://www.bostonherald.com/busine
58 WarRI1 : Tonight I attended Kevin Dillon's first public appearance as head of RIAC, the usual rhetoric from him and everyone else at the meeting. The city took
59 BOStonsox : Quonset would be a good airport for Allegiant. It's not too far from Providence or Newport and isn't much further from Boston. Plus there is a rail li
60 WarRI1 : Mr. Dillon also mentioned the Airbus 320 having a weight penalty in the summer at PVD, how much runway would the 320 need in the summer at PVD? maybe
61 WarRI1 : It seemed that he has something on his mind about Quonset, maybe the long talked about cargo operation from there.
62 RL757PVD : Everyone seems to forget there is so much more to aviation/airports than commercial airlines. Quonset has excellent facilities for many different fac
63 Whappeh : What, if any, news is there from or about PWM?
64 LH423 : Well, as the agreement right now is limited to JFK, I don't think this has much bearing on US or UA, considering the fact that neither really particu
65 PVD757 : There is supposed to be a new FBO/Hangar at Quonset that will make services for private/corporate operations MUCH better. I think it's supposed to be
66 RL757PVD : I always thought the airport shoudl be renamed "Narraganssett Bay Regional Airport" to really show off what it serves, technically it is the primary
67 Lat41 : OUQ Quonset has one (1) suitable runway. Looking at the property, another crosswind one would have to be built extending out into Narragansett Bay, In
68 RL757PVD : That is wrong... most people dont realize that. QOU is not a feasible PVD replacement under any curcumstance, SFZ is arguably a better choice (expans
69 Post contains links BOStonsox : I've seen an article where BOS was specifically mentioned as a possible connection point for B6's flights. In fact, here it is: http://www.aviationwe
70 KPWMSpotter : In terms of airline service, not much has changed. AirTran is going back to weekly on the Orlando flight for the summer, but is going to 4x daily to
71 WarRI1 : I know that Kevin Dillon kept repeating that the amount of money that has been quoted in the papers is not correct and that his position is to extend
72 RL757PVD : There are different variations of each as well, like mentioned in one of the previous new england aviation threads, Main Av could get a bend in it, a
73 BOStonsox : Well, for an airline like Allegiant where they may be the only airline there, QOU sounds about perfect. It has enough room to launch its planes and i
74 RL757PVD : The airport is not FAR Part 139 certified (commercial service), and i doubt RIAC would pay the $$ to make it such when they operate PVD. Plus it make
75 Post contains images ChrisNH : Not a whole lot is happening here at MHT, except for 2x appearances of 'Illinois One.' Aside from that, a quiet place relatively speaking. For me, an
76 Post contains links B752OS : That's a good looking plane. Great livery. It would be nice if they could one for every state they serve. I remember the days when you could take a 7
77 BOStonsox : So, any sightings of the Nike Swoosh plane lately? And what's the story with us meeting at Castle Island on Fathers' Day, or was that just talking?
78 WarRI1 : I have not seen the darn thing since, hopefully when the weather changes, I am out in the yard more and will see something. I have not seen anything
79 BOStonsox : Twin River is near there, so it would benefit from that as well. It already has a 5000 foot runway, so just a little more would make it suitable for
80 RL757PVD : Same issue as Quonset... there would be no benefit to having an airline like that use another airport, too much infrastructure upgrades, equipment, t
81 ChrisNH : Just taking a little survey here. Do we have any regular visitors to this thread who live near or are keeping up on Bangor or Burlington? We seem to h
82 RL757PVD : Has anyone else noticed the security lines at BOS term A being worse than usual lately? last night a DL supervisor and a TSA guy started agruing (TSA
83 PHLBOS : For the last few years, WN has had no trouble in putting stumbling blocks into FL's potential expansion plans. Examples: 1. WN sets up shop at PHL ab
84 Jawake : Huh, I had put that together, but your right, we do see to have these airports covered. Love to hear more news from VT & ME! I certainly could see a
85 BOStonsox : WN and B6 wouldn't compete on too many routes except for BOS-Florida. B6 doesn't even serve PHL, BWI, or MDW and they dropped their BOS-PHX service. T
86 CX288 : As previously mentioned on A-net, Lufthansa will commence operating its BOS-MUC service on a year-around basis. This winter they will switch to a busi
87 B752OS : I think it would be VERY interesting to see WN come into Logan and I know if they started BOS-PHL, US would have their butts handed to them as they w
88 ChrisNH : Agreed. There are several examples of Southwest and JetBlue happily coexisting at major airports. Certain routes (Boston-Orlando) would be potentiall
89 B752OS : Looks like AF is going to keep sending the 744 into BOS for the usual season second daily flight which runs for 4.5 months. I believe last summer AF r
90 LH423 : Last Summer also featured the 744, however it was on the late flight (arrival at around 21:00 with a 23:15 departure). This year, the order is revers
91 PWM2TXLHopper : And Bar Harbor-BHB
92 PHLBOS : Agreed, but since I was visiting my mother in Marblehead for a short stay; she would've been more willing to drive to Logan. The only reasons for me
93 Airbazar : MUC is huge, the only reason I can find for not going year-round with the A333 is because the aircraft is needed somewhere else. Even in October this
94 BOStonsox : BOS was the only LH route in the US that was seasonal from MUC. It's good to see that they can start this flight year-round. So what's up with AP? I s
95 B752OS : I thought the thread stated they have recieved the 332s they needed to start BOS and ORD. Looks like the only cuts BOS may see in the AA domestic cap
96 ChrisNH : Anyone know what happened to The New England Travel Journal...the little newspaper that comes out monthly and has regional airport statistics? I bookm
97 B752OS : Yea I noticed the same thing too. Perhaps the website is down? I was able to get a copy last week at Logan, they have stands all around the terminals
98 WarRI1 : In the PJ this morning Kevin Dillon was quoted in an atrticle about PVD at the Business Expo 2008. He states the reasons for a longer runway. (Projo.c
99 RL757PVD : For the last #$%&ing time this runway is not to serve existing flights! these projects are built for 5-10-20 years down the road! As we all have seen
100 WarRI1 : Easy now, as I said read the Journal, form you own conclusions, what crystal ball says that everyone will be able to afford to fly then? I priced out
101 RL757PVD : what economic forecast shows a never ending downward slope with a constatnly worsenning economy for the next 20+ years? Dillion has the correct minds
102 WarRI1 : I only saw the same aircraft, even FEDEX at MHT as in PVD, What others are they flying into MHT? My main point economically is oil, not exactly a ros
103 ChrisNH : As RL757PVD mentions, the longer runway at MHT has benefited UPS and FedEx primarily. I don't think there were many 'stupid' people up here who expect
104 ChrisNH : No you didn't. FedEx flies small 727s into PVD while using larger A300s at MHT. On Saturdays, the A300 is replaced by the larger-still DC-10 or MD-10
105 RL757PVD : There was a period in the aviation industry like that 15-20 years ago, which was followed by a period of incredible growth (mid-late 90's), so thats
106 Airbazar : Actually that would do nothing. In fact there have been 2 huge new oil field findings off the coast of S.America in the last year alone and that has
107 ChrisNH : Part of the oil price-spike was of our own making: The U.S. crowed about the virtues of capitalism and guess what? Countries tried it and they liked i
108 LH423 : Yes, but Frankfurt is still a FAAAR more important business destination that Munich. Difference is, no one goes to Frankfurt for holidays. That's why
109 WarRI1 : Bingo, that is it in a nutshell, we got them hooked with our global economy and we are paying for it, supply and demand, and we now have the demand.
110 WarRI1 : I understand your point Airbazar about the depressed dollar, but I agree with ChrisNH about the world demand driving prices now. We let the Genie out
111 RL757PVD : So everyone is going to stay home and in their 10-mile surrounding area and global and intrastate commerce is going to come to a grinding and eternal
112 WarRI1 : My point is that there are priorities, the not so highly paid, and there are more and more of them, the people on fixed incomes, more and more of the
113 RL757PVD : Nothing you mentioned conflicts with extending a runway. Money generated by aviation and on public airports is LEGALLY REQUIRED to be used for airpor
114 Airbazar : Yes, the current economic woes have many fronts and the increase in oil prices is caused in part by increased global demand but that's not all. For e
115 Post contains links Jawake : Better plan for the shuttle, you can walk, but make sure you park in the back. Closer to the terminal. http://www.flymanchester.com/about/parking.php
116 LH423 : I believe most airlines have restrictions. The bag tag is supposed to be the last thing done to your bag before it heads to security. Some agents won
117 WarRI1 : In the P.J. business page today oil set a new record yesterday, even OPEC is puzzled at the price, the weak dollar plays a part, China and India are
118 WarRI1 : I would agree, let us use the revenue for maintaining the airport, making it safer, keeping it as good as the money taken in allows. Do you think 830
119 Airbazar : That's just speculation. Europeans are paying $8/Gal and they still manage to get to work and go on vacation and live a good life. Americans will jus
120 ChrisNH : And what's the guarantee all that extra money goes into visible things like bridges & roads rather than more bureaucracy? I feel that it's counterpro
121 Airbazar : That a whole other issue but one thing is for sure, without money there's no way in hell you will ever have good infrastructure. So the choices are:
122 WarRI1 : According to the latest Gallup Poll on CNN tonight, the first thing 51% of people making up to 75K per year had to cut back on was driving, next was
123 WarRI1 : I cannot imagine paying anymore than I already do in state and local taxes and our infrastucture is falling apart anyway, so should we ask to pay mor
124 ChrisNH : 'Pay & hope?' Sheesh... If roads and bridges actually got fixed, and if our public schools & test scores actually got better, then that would wipe ou
125 Airbazar : Ok maybe hope was a poor choice of words but bottom line is, without money you sure can't get it done so how to you suggest the money gets raised? By
126 WarRI1 : I gave up hope, a long time ago, the hope that the morons in my state would stop electing the morons in office over and over again. this has not happ
127 Lat41 : Is this an aviation thread or not? I think we are getting off topic here. Political commentary rants and editorializing have plenty of other places on
128 Post contains images Nbgskygod : Maybe this will help get us back on topic, these were flying over my house yesterday on my way to work. I assume its a MaANG F-15 from BAF but not su
129 WarRI1 : Did you happen to read the words, try it you will see words about PVD and that makes it an aviation thread. There is more to aviation than just words
130 RL757PVD : Its written into the FAA Grand assurances... no ifs ands or buts about it.... its the LAW Any airport that accepts federal funds, must keep any airpo
131 Airbazar : Unfortunately politics and aviation go hand in hand. There's no way to separate the two. My comment about funding for infrastructure improvements app
132 RL757PVD : Correction - that should read "Grant Assurances" aka termans and conditions for accepting federal $$$
133 WarRI1 : Thanks for the information and I would say that is a good regulation, no siphoning the monies from the airports.
134 WarRI1 : I heard a rumor, that the new rail station maybe delayed, or canceled for the intermodel project at PVD. Just a rumor with some legs, so there is som
135 RL757PVD : Well the wheels are in motion, but like with any large scale project there are a few snags along the way. Ive heard the opening has slipped into 2010
136 WarRI1 : I thought it might be budget pressures, it is not getting any better here, the problem seems to be growing, money wise. No surprise there in this eco
137 RL757PVD : I heard the maximum guarantee price to build it was only 10% higher than the current proposed amount, which isa commonly used figure, esp since thats
138 ChrisNH : If governmental agencies (local, state, federal) knew 20 years ago what they know now--about the high price of gasoline and the strangulating effect i
139 B752OS : At least something is being done to help out Prodvidence and Southern New England, albeit slow. You look at other cities, such as Atlanta and Houston
140 Post contains links RL757PVD : Amen to that! I live in ATL and deal with our joke of a transit system (see non av post for reference http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...ms/non_a
141 WarRI1 : I would have to say the Northeast has been in decline for the last 30 years, we have had little upticks, but steadily down overall. If PVD and the ra
142 RL757PVD : Not the urban areas, and its not just about population. One only has to look at the city of Providence in 1988 vs 2008 to see that. So blue collar ye
143 WarRI1 : [quote=RL757PVD,reply=142]The stronger cities in the future will be the ones with the best commerce infrastructure, and thankfully we dont have people
144 Airbazar : I have news for you. The Northeast is NOT Rode Island. Just because life is crappy in RI, with unemployment above 6% it doesn't mean it's that bad ev
145 RL757PVD : The thing is he's looking at it from one perspective only (as usual) The truth is that blue collar and manufacturing jobs have been leaving the north
146 PVD757 : Traditional manufactuting jobs have historically chased cheap labor. Europe lost favor to the U.S. (New England), New England is losing it to the sout
147 RL757PVD : Exactly, and from what i recall reading, companies like Fedelity Investments have shifted over 1,000 jobs down from the Boston area ro RI. and severa
148 B752OS : No doubt New England will weather the storm and has already in my eyes. As it stands now, Massachusetts has the second highest concentration of tech
149 B752OS : To add, a good portion of those jobs were added to Fidelity's workforce, while some were moved from Boston area offices. Fidelity has expanded in a l
150 ChrisNH : I'm not as optimistic, and here's why: 1.) The consumption of energy is higher here than in the sun belt. If you can find a way to eliminate the cost
151 RL757PVD : and going forward the northeast will have a lower energy consumption than its other vehicle dependany US counterparts, which is why i think the north
152 B752OS : You bring up valid point about home prices and how it costs more to build a home in New Hampshire than in Alabama. However, the economies of the Nort
153 WarRI1 : I will not add anything, I could not have said it better, time will these these young whippersnappers.
154 WarRI1 : I meant to say time will teach these young whippersnappers. fingers faster than brain.
155 ChrisNH : Well, I will say this for New England: I'm glad we're not Detroit. Or Akron. Or Gary. Or Buffalo. In that regard we have the diversification to pull o
156 WarRI1 : How about a tour in Rhode Island living, a couple of years, you will go back North in a hurry, unfortunately I am in the same boat about where to liv
157 LH423 : Just as a side bar, I recall reading an article in the globe a few weeks ago that showed New England, despite lagging behind in economic growth over t
158 Post contains links B752OS : The Heald had an article about the extension of BOS-MUC to year round, as it will go 5 x weekly with a Privatair 319. The article mentioned that about
159 WarRI1 : I have read it, the problem I have with that is the ever changeing descriptions of the need for PVD to have a longer runway, safety has now once agai
160 RL757PVD : Best quote of the article... great minds think alike... Dillon told the audience members that they can probably relate to the fact that every industr
161 ChrisNH : One thing worthy of remembering was back in (I think) the 1970s or 1980s, Boeing & Seattle were at odds. I think there was a billboard saying, 'Will t
162 ChrisNH : Quote from the article: "During the industry downturn after Sept. 11, 2001, Manchester forged on with a $500 million construction project. Because of
163 RL757PVD : But what happens if the region has enough demand for flights to Europe? and lets not forget Europe comming to RI(not a large chunk, but Tourism is th
164 Post contains links RL757PVD : You must have slept pretty good http://www.flymanchester.com/uploadcache/Yearly_Statistics.DOC MHT grew 35% from 2001 to 2005
165 WarRI1 : I can only defer to Mr. Dillon's own words, "PVD will always be a regional airport, maybe he has a modified translation for regional. I was amazed wh
166 Airbazar : I don't use any heating oil in my house. Heating oil is not any more expensive than netural gas or electricty which the Sun belt needs a lot of to ke
167 ChrisNH : Wow...20% if you run 2001-->2007. Somehow it just hasn't seemed that good. What are the PVD numbers for that same timeframe???
168 RL757PVD : Regional does not mean anything, with the size of the facility nor with regards to the cities served. PVD will have west coast flights and flights to
169 RL757PVD : Exactly, just because the past couple years havent been that good doesnt mean we're on a sinking ship. MHT only broke the 1 million passenger mark 10
170 BOStonsox : I'll give it a go: 1. They are all in the PVD service region (although Stamford, and maybe New Haven are a bit of a stretch). 2. They are between Bos
171 ChrisNH : 5. They are all connected by train.
172 RL757PVD : * looks to judges* Yes High speed train!
173 BOStonsox : Huh. I actually was expecting the answer to be that they were all in the PVD service area, although New Haven and Stamford would more fit in BDL's ca
174 RL757PVD : I was referring to recent development/growth in each of those cities Theres another good example Again supporting my statement that the cities with t
175 Airbazar : Here's another reason why I think the Northeast is better prepared to face the future than most of the rest of the country and why we're not feeling t
176 BOStonsox : Oh, god. In other parts of the country it is WORSE? This is bad enough. I am probably the youngest person on this thread (I turned 21 just over a mon
177 Airbazar : Electricity in this country is made by burning fossil fuels, typically coal but also Oil and Natural Gas. How do you think that power plant in Everet
178 BOStonsox : You know, I never thought about how it was generated. It's kinda too bad that there is such a Catch-22. Obama said he was going to try to minimize ou
179 Post contains links WarRI1 : http://www.massmac.org/newsline/0705/article01.htm Notice that Mass, is not keepin up with North Carolina as of this report.
180 Post contains links WarRI1 : somemore. http://www.nh.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...20070215/BUSINESSREVIEW30/70214039
181 RL757PVD : So what? we already went through this and concluded that New England is in a transition from more of a blue collar work force to a white collar work
182 WarRI1 : My point is that the jobs of which you speak, denote education, we have more and more uneducated in the area, what do they do for a living? The Mass.
183 Airbazar : And how is he supposed to do that? That's my point. Talk is cheap. He has not showed how he intends to do it. Bottom line is he can't because the day
184 BOStonsox : I wonder how much longer it will be before we get there. Especially since the latest thing is to be "green". Okay, I see what you're saying. Anyway,
185 LH423 : Well, New England does better than a lot of places. We get hydroelectricity produced in Maine as well as importing it from Québec and New Brunswick,
186 Afitch7881 : Bradley International Airport April Stats- DL- 152,023 WN- 122,584 US- 86,907 UA- 68,965 AA- 60,039 NW- 57,596 CO- 17,556 AC- 5,854 YX- 4,010 F9- 3,83
187 WarRI1 : I was reading the Warwick Beacon today at the names on the tax delinquent lists, and what do I spot? A name on the list, just like our new guy at PVD.
188 Eyes2thesky : This news probably flew under most people's radar, but there was a small milestone yesterday (Wednesday the 21st): FL began its BWI-BTV service. It wi
189 ChrisNH : So if the liberals are stonewalling every effort to develop and tap our own supply, then where does Obama--himself a Liberal--suggest we go...the moo
190 WarRI1 : Those words are from reply 178, I would not want to get tagged as a liberal or anything else in the political spectrum, I try to think things out as
191 ChrisNH : Sorry about the mis-attribution of the quote! A.net sometimes does that! I know it was someone else who said that, but the 'quote selected text' featu
192 RL757PVD : Before you look at the glass as half full seats have been reduced by over 12% year over year Enplanements were actually UP (barely) Overall traffic w
193 WarRI1 : Take a look at the response of Sen. Byrd to the tragedy of Sen. Kennedy's illness, what is he doing in congress?, they are all there, doddering old f
194 RL757PVD : The following airlines posted an increase at PVD April 08 vs April 07 US +0.85% CO +19.46% (wow) AC +9.28% DL +5.90% (again wow) WN +15.18% (NO INCREA
195 RL757PVD : Like the train station you keep complaining about ...or is that just because its tied to an airport.....
196 WarRI1 : Have a good trip to California. Thanks for the information, I can see why CO was up so much with the price ChrisNH got from them.
197 ChrisNH : My ticket was $202.80+$57.20=$260, which was far and away better than anything seen from other carriers...from MHT, BOS, even from PWM via Jetblue. I
198 WarRI1 : The train station, was once a train platform, for commuters, no problem with that for 25 million. the train platform became a train station, car gara
199 RL757PVD : and where are the commuters supposed to get tickets and wait in bad/cold weather? And where are the users supposed to park? Theres no an abundance of
200 RL757PVD : Multiple choice = plane train bus or car ......aka intermodal?
201 WarRI1 : Warwick's intermodal has gone nowhere for ten years, it is all food for thought, is the glass half full, or is it half empty? Our pockets are getting
202 BOStonsox : Good point. If I had my way, though we would not only be independant from foreign oil but ANY oil. I think the city of Warwick will use it to get to
203 WarRI1 : It is a good idea, especially now with the airline situation (oil) That was the original concept, Warwick was trying to build a new downtown area acr
204 BOStonsox : I wonder if Warwick's intermodal facility has gone nowhere because until fairly recently the state of Rhode Island has started paying for weekend serv
205 RL757PVD : So you should shut up and be damn thankful that you are getting hundreds of millions in federal money to pay for something that will have a huge bene
206 WarRI1 : We need you in the Diplomatic Corp. I think you missed your calling. (Joke), we would be at war in no time. I have been patient and no windfall yet,
207 WarRI1 : I am afraid that it has been like a Byzantine puzzle, no one has been able to pull it together for many reasons, too numerous for me to remember. aqu
208 BOStonsox : If I'm not mistaken the busses to the cape don't stop at PVD, but require a switch downtown. I didn't see anything on the schedule that says otherwis
209 Post contains links RL757PVD : They just started this spring 5 daily bus trips http://www.capedestinations.com/survey_tfgexpress.html
210 B752OS : Bus service to airports is pretty popular. Has anyone ever taken the Logan Express? The lots at the stations are usually very full and any time I hav
211 BOStonsox : Which is all the more reason why Concord Trailways and Vermont should stop at PWM, MHT, and BTV. It doesn't add much to the route, and it benefits th
212 WarRI1 : I am not sure, but if you think I am against rail travel, I most certainly am not, I have been across 3/4 of the US, by rail, I support and use the r
213 Post contains links MAH4546 : Boston lost 1,704 monthly flights between January 2007 and January 2008, the third highest drop in the nation after O'Hare and Pittsburgh: http://www.
214 BOStonsox : I wonder why. Did anybody drop any routes? B6 BOS-CMH, FL to some Florida destinations as well as PHL and MDW, I'm sure there are more.
215 WarRI1 : " target=_blank>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/21/bu...login Read that and it will give you a warm fuzzy feeling about aviation today. I think we sho
216 RL757PVD : Yea because we should plan our long term 20 year infrastructure needs on whats gone on in the past 6-12 months exclusively
217 MAH4546 : Delta alone has dropped about a dozen or so routes in the past year, with more cuts (like JAX) coming up.
218 WarRI1 : You have to admit, it does not look too good at this time, anywhere in the US. Did you see the people who are supposed to be staying home this weeken
219 Rcardinale : Routes dropped B6 BOS-CMH B6 BOS-PHX DL BOS-MDW DL BOS- Louisville KY AA-BOS-MAN FlyGlobespan- BOS- Glasgow FL-BOS-ROC FL-BOS-MDW FL-BOS-FLL FL-BOS-PB
220 RL757PVD : Ive flown more in the first 5 months of this year than i have in the first 5 months of any year to date...75% of it for business... so i dont admit i
221 B752OS : What I don't understand is, BOS-MDW on FL was dropped months ago and it still appears on the route map as being non-stop from BOS while FLL and PBI h
222 ChrisNH : Is it possible to get your hands on a 1985 plan for PVD so people can see how close to reality it came? Everyone talks about '20-year plans' as thoug
223 Rcardinale : I figured this... does anyone have pax numbers for each airline? Hopefully IB will be able to make a profit here this year as I would hate to see the
224 RL757PVD : In 1993-5 ish the master plan projected 6 million pax in 20 years, and thats what the original capacity the new terminal designed was for. it was the
225 MAH4546 : 2007 was a record year for BOS, but it's growth rate was behind other large airports, as traffic was up a scant 1.4% - which shows that there are les
226 WarRI1 : Warwick Beacon Tuesday May 27 Here we go again. 34 million more in overruns for intermodal at PVD. 222.5 million plus 34 million equals 256. 5 million
227 Post contains links RL757PVD : What the article fails to mention/explain (real shocker) is thats for the "Maximum Guaranteed Price" and is roughly 10% over the amount, essentially
228 RL757PVD : Yet again you have managed to post a link for your argument that end up echoing the statements i've been saying all along from the article... does th
229 WarRI1 : That is why I said to read the article, everyone has a right to read the papers version, not mine, not yours. Remember, these are not the final figur
230 MAH4546 : Delta Connection will end service between Boston and Norfolk on July 12th, leaving BOS without a non-stop link to Norfolk/Virginia Beach. This is Delt
231 RL757PVD : The bond rating specifically states "system wide" (aviation in general) happenings. RIAC is doing the right thing by attacking costs and therefore wi
232 RL757PVD : Yes the price quotes is the FINAL cost (maximum guaranteed price) by the contractor, meaning it could still be less than that amount. The problem is
233 WarRI1 : Ok, we will see about the FINAL figures, I hope that is correct and if it is, it will be a minor miracle. I will write this into the record here. 222
234 RL757PVD : With the MGP submitted by the contractor, thats the most they can charge, so any overruns after that point eat into their profit. It'd be pretty hard
235 Airbazar : I just went to Disney World for the weekend. Looking at the massive crowds of people I wouldn't guess things were that bad. The flights were also pac
236 BOStonsox : When did FL drop BOS-Newport News? Or are you just talking about Norfolk? I wonder how much of these cuts (I'm sure these routes didn't do so well th
237 ChrisNH : Add BOS-SAN to the list of AA routes being axed. I flew SJC-EWR on a jam-packed CO 737-800 red-eye this morning...what an ordeal for a 6-footer like m
238 WarRI1 : I am puzzled by this also, you read where everything is in dire straights in this country and yet, it does not seem to be as far as traveling on airl
239 RL757PVD : For the most part, those hurt by the weakened economy are the lower and lower middle class, the people that rarely fly to begin with Smaller cars and
240 Airbazar : Europeans have long adjusted their lifestyle to high costs and high taxes. We too will adjust. At first it will hurt a bit but eventually we'll end u
241 B752OS : FL still flies BOS-PHF 2 x daily so BOS still does a non-stop connection to the southeastern Virginia area. B6 is like the other legacies, feeling th
242 ChrisNH : Ironically, that JetBlue A320 was loading right next to ours. In both cases, our planes used the air stairs...and our 737-800 had stairs to the front
243 WarRI1 : Time will surely tell, if it will work here. I saw on NBC tonight that in whatever timeframe they used, like in the past year, I think 41 million few
244 DALMD88 : Only one is a mainline flight, LAS. The rest are RJ flights. I think most were only single daily frequency. That doesn't add up to too many seats. Su
245 Airbazar : I can believe that but the same survey states that the number 1 reason for the drop in passenger numbers is people getting fed up with poor service:
246 WarRI1 : That was one of the main reasons mentioned on NBC. That is a large chunk of riders and money lost. Not a good sign for aviation.
247 Airbazar : Exactly. the reason people are flying less has little to do with the economy and high gas prices. People are simply fed up with the crappy service th
248 BOStonsox : If you're right AirBazar, there are few airlines who realize that this nickeling and diming is making things worse. It's really too bad. I have some f
249 ChrisNH : Airlines in an ideal world would probably just love to get rid of the leisure traveler and focus instead on the 'have-to-get-there' business traveler.
250 BOStonsox : You know, I wonder to what extent crappy service plays into this. As bad as it can be, sometimes flying is your only choice. Only on short-haul routes
251 Airbazar : Sometimes flying is the only choice but right now we're seeing that those some times are fewer times As expensive as gas prices are, for a family of
252 RL757PVD : There are alot of areas where flying can and should be reduced by improving rail corridors. Atlanta has dozens and dozens of flights to Florida each d
253 ChrisNH : I agree with you about rail corridors, but they are notoriously mired in red tape, politics, right-of-way issues, land-taking, unions, and on and on a
254 BOStonsox : I know that in CT there are grade crossings, but hopefully those will be eliminated sometime. It's too bad we don't invest more in high speed rail, a
255 RL757PVD : I believe the reason they have to go slower in CT is the tracks are too close together and thee is an issue with the speed + the tilt of the train +
256 IliriBDL : We're getting a 757 starting from Monday. FLT 815 BDL-CUN, with a stop at CLT (8:30A) FLT 834 MBJ-BDL, with a stop at CLT as well. (4:30P)
257 Atlanta : I hope so I have family in Greenland, Portsmouth and Dover NH and I connected to Skybus on DL from ATL in CMH then to PSM and it was great and easier
258 B752OS : The Acela runs almost an express type route. The route from South Station to New York makes stops at Back Bay, 128/Dedham, Providence, New Haven and
259 Airbazar : And as a result, for the consumer rail is still a lot more expensive than driving, even with $4/Gal gas.
260 RL757PVD : Depends what you drive. Its easy to loose track of how much it REALLY costs you when you drive. Like for me driving into the city (Atlanta) for drink
261 Airbazar : Of course, but you're giving an example of localy subsidized mass transit when the topic at hand is long distance travel in the context of rail vs. r
262 RL757PVD : But thats a vacation/something different, not a commute, which is the primary purpose of mass transit. Theres always Metro North from New Haven heck
263 ChrisNH : Folks: Don't lose sight of the fact that what we're seeing in oil prices is a bubble. There are enough similarities to what we are going through in th
264 LH423 : Amtrak doesn't own the tracks between New Haven and New York. Those belong to the Metro North and there are some curves where if two Acela trains wer
265 RL757PVD : And i can't wait for airlines to add all the service back and lower their fares!
266 ChrisNH : As long as there are stockholders who insist on 'growth,' some measure of increased service will occur.
267 RL757PVD : No stock holder gives a rats @$$ about how much service is provided at airports around the country. The only growth they care about is their investme
268 Airbazar : This is an aviation forum. We're not talking about daily commuting for 30 miles. No one is going to fly between Boston and Providence to get to work.
269 BOStonsox : I'm sorry, but I just don't see oil prices going down much. If I told you that gas prices would be back down to $1.09/gal, everyone would laugh. I re
270 LH423 : No, probably never that low. But they will come down. They'll stay down for a couple of years and then start rising again as the world's oil supplies
271 ChrisNH : Which was what I meant. Home prices haven't rolled back to 1980 levels, but they did come back down the mountain almost as steeply as they went up it
272 BOStonsox : I can see oil going back down, but I doubt it will go back down below $3. They will continue to increase in the long run.
273 Post contains links WarRI1 : http://warwickonline.com/warwickonline/ Some serious allegations in todays Beacon about RIAC in (letters), read it and see what you think.
274 MAH4546 : Gas was well below $3/gallon last August, and it will be below $3/gallon again. In 1980, adjusted for inflation, gas averaged over $3.20; and peaked
275 RL757PVD : I think like most people in Warwick who think they know the airports finances and how to run an airport, he is clueless RIAC still has a good credit
276 BOStonsox : I was born in 1987, so I missed that period. Although I do remember $1.09 as a little kid, so maybe you're right about it going back down. I am not a
277 WarRI1 : Easy now, he gets these figures from somewhere, I do not know where, but he sure keeps digging up new ones. there must be a modicum of truth somewher
278 RL757PVD : The Fitch rating said it pretty clear... the Bond Rating is still and A and RIAC has had solid financial performance (funny how someone from Warwick
279 WarRI1 : I have been warned about people from Warwick, they do tend to be wacky after a few years of airport noise. Hmmm, I have been here all my life. When I
280 RL757PVD : No, he's probably one of the few people that actually "gets it" and realizes just how much indirect money Warwick receives from the airport.
281 LIPZ : According to some italian aviation forums AirOne (AP) has just decided to postpone the launch of the new services to Boston (and Chicago) from Milan f
282 LH423 : True. But the true test will come with how they handle those displaced passengers. Will they be proactive in rebooking them on other flights (most li
283 Airbazar : I do agree somewhat with the future volatility of Oil prices but in the end it will always come back higher than the previous high mark. And the reas
284 B752OS : Over the last couple of days, on Boston.com (The Boston Globe's website) there has been a large ad on the home page for the MXP service. Exactly, Dub
285 Airbazar : Not that bad? At a poor 20mpg it's 10 gallons RT Boston-Portland, $40. That's nearly 1/4 of the price of the train. And then when you get off the tra
286 Post contains links B752OS : Looks like for April, Logan improved their time performance for flights http://www.boston.com/business/ticker/2008/06/logans_ontime_p_1.html Unfortuna
287 ChrisNH : I saw on FlightAware that a Southwest Airlines 737-700 flew from Volk Field in Wisconsin to Bedford this morning as Flight 7479. After a short stay at
288 WarRI1 : Another letter in the Warwick Beacon about the PVD expansion. Not favorable. (warwickonline) What say you?
289 Post contains links RL757PVD : You really should call them articles... they are letters to the editor, and from warwick, dont hold your breath for anything credible. The letter was
290 WarRI1 : I thought it was a little out there myself, but of course when he mentions the truthful aspects of anything said by RIAC or any other government agen
291 RL757PVD : He does... just out of context and missing other relevant facts
292 RKDflier : Some news out of KRKD (Rockland, ME). Knox County, which owns the airport has received bids from both Colgan Air(US Airways) and Cape Air for the exis
293 Post contains links Airbazar : The Globe finally posted something about this delay: http://www.boston.com/business/artic...boston_debut_for_almost_two_weeks/ By the way, I've notic
294 B752OS : Are you saying the ads are a sign the flights aren't doing well? I noticed the nice Iberia ad on the expressway. AirOne also had an ad on Boston.com.
295 MAH4546 : Why waste the money? Foreign carriers don't need to do major advertising in large region like BOS unless their performance in a particular city sucks
296 BOStonsox : I have seen ads for LH on the Red Line a few times. I think I've also seen Icelandair once or twice, and both IB and AP have done some advertising on
297 Post contains links and images LIPZ : Looks like this is the real truth with a very low 15-20% LF expected for the 1st two weeks of operation. In addition, there will be no new business-c
298 Rcardinale : Hopefully AirOne will be able to turn a profit here but i highly doubt that as even AZ was not able to make BOS-MXP work profitably. I have also notic
299 Airbazar : The B6 adds are all over the subway cars. They are really funny and really capture your attention. No not at all but I think it's well known that out
300 BOStonsox : Too bad, they looked really good before. Now they're kinda plain. I'll have to look for them next time I am planespotting near BOS. 300 posts! This t
301 DALMD88 : Sat night was a big night for diversions to BOS. E terminal had KE, KLM, Lan, and an Air China Cargo flight there around 9:30. There was also a AF and
302 B752OS : I was looking at flightaware earlier this evening to see when the Celtics would finally be returning from Los Angeles and noticed that a YX 717 flight
303 Post contains links WarRI1 : http://warwickonline.com/warwickonli...ntent&task=view&id=37600&Itemid=35 A letter to the Editor in the Beacon yesterday about the intermodal at PVD,
304 RL757PVD : Southwest schedule changes: PVD gets 2nd daily FLL, regains 6th MCO (dropped from 8/23-11/2) Extra Sat only MCO (7) and TPA (3) BDL regains their 3rd
305 WarRI1 : I see that PVD is losing more flights and the contract for the intermodal is held up again. Projo.com and Warwickonline. Passenger count down 2% also.
306 RL757PVD : The Southwest addition more than replaced the loss by AA. AA had a paultry 1.8% market share, plus this isnt the first time they have left PVD. Also
307 Post contains links Airbazar : Looks like NW BDL-AMS is a gonner on Oct 1st. http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/080626/20080626006201.html?.v=1
308 WarRI1 : I was looking at MHT flights and unless I missed one, I noticed that there are no international flights other than to Canada. I checked about 500 flig
309 BOStonsox : PVD has flights to the Azores during the summer, but I don't know if that is as far away as PHX or LAS. I wonder why the runway can support a flight
310 RL757PVD : HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO GO OVER THIS?? 1) Runway projects take 10+ years from concept to concrete, results are not going to happen over night...
311 ChrisNH : I point to the higher level of safety as the main advantage at Manchester. Also, the cargo carriers (FedEX and UPS) were major proponents of the long
312 B752OS : Consider it this way, IAD is a hub for UA and I would consider BWI a hub, if not a large focus city for WN where as BOS/MHT/PVD only have a decent si
313 BOStonsox : That's a surprise. I always thought they were a lot closer in terms of O&D. I know the hub certainly helps, and Washington is a great connecting poin
314 B752OS : Population has one thing to do with it, also I would gauge the business populations between the regions to be a push and when you consider the amount
315 Airbazar : You left out BDL. There are plenty of people who currently fly in/out of BDL who would otherwise fly from BOS/PVD.
316 B752OS : Well if you added in BDL that would be 35.5 million O&D pax. I did not include BDL because I thought that would widen the area larger than the area t
317 Airbazar : Total area is irrelevant. Catchment area is what you need to look into. There is quite an overlap of the catchment area of BDL, PVD and BOS. For exam
318 WarRI1 : That has been bandied about here in R.I. many times. When you look at the route maps, it does make you wonder.
319 WarRI1 : I think you are safe, the work is done there, now at PVD?????? The costs at the intermodal seem to be rising faster than a river during the spring ru
320 RL757PVD : For the last *explative* time, the costs are locked in with a MGP (max guaranteed price) Also FYI they have a new 8,700 ft runway option that will hi
321 WarRI1 : Ponta Delagata (PDL) is 2423 miles from Providence according to SATA's site.
322 BOStonsox : So have they planned any expansions to the terminal building at PVD? If they ever expanded that by a few gates with the intermodal facility and possib
323 WarRI1 : Does anyone know the MGP? The Devil is in the details, it does sound better and much more affordable than what was once on the wishlist as far as the
324 PVD757 : The author of that letter clearly does not have all the facts. Special interests? The working and traveling public is the special interest in this cas
325 WarRI1 : I might add that obviously the city and public's input had some effect on this issue as far as the grandiose and totally unaffordable first versions
326 WarRI1 : To which letter do you refer?
327 Airbazar : PVD-PDL 2105nm PVD-PHX 1979nm PVD-LAS 2053nm While PDL is indeed longer, it is an eastbound flight with a tailwind and virtually no traffic congestio
328 Post contains links RL757PVD : http://www.projo.com/business/conten..._07-01-08_QBAN52F_v18.31a392f.html The article doesnt list the costs or housing quantities but I THINK the cost
329 ChrisNH : Never say we haven't done anything for you! No one will convince me that PVD didn't get the better of that deal. The guy we've got up here now is, qu
330 Post contains links RL757PVD : Warwick Beacon article on the runway http://warwickonline.com/warwickonli...tent&task=view&id=37722&Itemid=174 I think its the most supportive ive eve
331 WarRI1 : Give me a guess on the GMP for the Intermodal. Gov. Carcieri said that an 80 million dollar courthouse that he vetoed would have cost 140 million wit
332 BOStonsox : I saw in Today In The Sky that they tried to run BOS on wind turbines and it went really well. Kudos to them for being so innovative.
333 WarRI1 : Are the turbines on the airport property? Who owns them?
334 PVD757 : Please disregard the first part of that post. It was drafted a while ago and must have stayed in the dialog box. I decided not to finish/post it at t
335 BOStonsox : They installed 20 of them on the roof of the main office building. You can see the article if you google Today In The Sky.
336 WarRI1 : I hate to quote myself, but, today in the Prov. Journal there is an article about the crumbling infrastructure on our highways. The Maniacs are at it
337 Airbazar : Ironically here in Mass it's the politicians that don't want new toll roads. You won't find many Mass residents who are against tolls on I-93 just so
338 WarRI1 : My point is, we have a choice not to travel in NH and on the Mass Pike, when the frenzy starts, we will pay everywhere. No state will keep any major
339 RL757PVD : If you did your homework, you would have found out that the while RIAC in involved, the state DOT contractually agreed to any cost overruns. How had
340 ChrisNH : Confucius say: He who chastise someone for not doing homework ought to be able to put a sentence together.
341 RL757PVD : time of post - 1 am
342 PVD757 : I think getting cars off route 95 (and the gas they burn) and hundreds of daily car rental bus trips off Post, Airport, and Jefferson roads seems like
343 BOStonsox : Really? I'm surprised anyone would want tolls. As bad of an idea I think they are, however, Rhode Island should put up tolls on I-95. They are one of
344 RL757PVD : Newport Bridge has a toll I don;t think there should be any tolls untill the highway offers an advantage such as thru lanes or a traffic free bypass.
345 WarRI1 : I have said before and I will say it again, and the whole country is in this fix too, the country is falling apart and we keep building and building.
346 BOStonsox : Yeah, Newport Bridge does have a toll, but it's not an entire highway. Now that I think of it, initially adding tolls will actually cost the state a
347 WarRI1 : Good point The initial costs will be enormous, and will be dwarfed by the other costs of patronage, political influence, beaurocracy and all the othe
348 ChrisNH : The potential problem with tolls is that the money can be directed into the general fund, where it can be used for anything, like some drug rehabilita
349 B752OS : I don't know if anyone has read Senator Kerry's remark about the Acela Express or not, here's the article if not.http://www.bostonherald.com/news/nati
350 ChrisNH : The irony is that the work it would take to get Acela up to its 150 MPH speed has a whole lot less to do with Kerry and his government than he'd like
351 ChrisNH : Folks, I'm going to start the Official New England Aviation Thread #6. I think this one has grown a little long in the tooth!
352 PVD757 : couldn't find #6, so here is a schedule update: YX: Will drop MKE-BDL service on 9/3. BDL appears to be suffering the worst in 2008 having lost what i
353 PVD757 : re-posted the above in #6.
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