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NW's A330s From SEA To HNL  
User currently offline787seattle From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 641 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8105 times:

Although I am sort of late on this, I just noticed that NW replaced their A330s (which I took on this route in Jan.) with 753s on their SEA-HNL-SEA route. I have one question about this. Why would an airline use such a large airplane on this route? It doesn't make much sense that they would put this on a route that the A330 could go to and from on a full tank of gas.

Thanks for the info.

~~787seattle~~


Student - KELN
42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3081 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8095 times:

This route has historically been operated by 2x daily 753s. The A333 was only in service on the route for 6 months or so during the fall/winter (however last summer an A333 also operated daily on SEA-MSP-SEA for awhile).

Since then, NW has retired the 742s that used to fly between Hawaii and Japan, and Saipan/Guam and Japan, and A333s have been put on these routes.

Is that what you're getting at? The 753 can easily do SEA-HNL-SEA.


User currently offlineNwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3383 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8084 times:

Maybe a mix of cargo capacity/demand?


"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6449 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8080 times:

Quoting 787seattle (Thread starter):

[quote=787seattle,reply=0]Although I am sort of late on this, I just noticed that NW replaced their A330s (which I took on this route in Jan.) with 753s on their SEA-HNL-SEA route. I have one question about this. Why would an airline use such a large airplane on this route? It doesn't make much sense that they would put this on a route that the A330 could go to and from on a full tank of gas.


Don't quite understand your message, but NWA must think that the 753 with 224 or so seats is the right size aircraft for profitable operation on the route. What size aircraft do you propose they fly and why?

[Edited 2008-04-19 13:21:30]

User currently offlineEVA777SEA From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7997 times:

I think that the A330 is coming back this winter. Is that aircraft currently helping with the 3x weekly addition to the SEA-NRT flight that is operated by an A333?

User currently offline787seattle From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 641 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7931 times:



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 3):
Don't quite understand your message

What I meant was: Why was NW using such a large aircraft on a route so short for the type? (A330s can go like 5600nm, so why put them on a 2500nm route?)

Yes, it does make a lot more sense to use a 753 on this route than an A330.



Student - KELN
User currently offlineKohflot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7859 times:

NW's switch to the A330 on SEA-HNL curiously happened right about the time AS started the same route.

User currently offlineMauiman31 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 450 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7809 times:
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Yes, perhaps a marketing strategy because some HNL pax like me, will always choose a wide-body over single aisle, even from the west coast. I understand NW's A330 is a beautiful plane and they all have their new biz class seats, which have gotten good reviews here. I think they still use the A330 MSP-HNL-MSP.

Quoting Kohflot (Reply 6):
NW's switch to the A330 on SEA-HNL curiously happened right about the time AS started the same route.



User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined exactly 7 years ago today! , 3193 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7754 times:



Quoting 787seattle (Thread starter):
Why would an airline use such a large airplane on this route? It doesn't make much sense that they would put this on a route that the A330 could go to and from on a full tank of gas.

First off, no airline would ever fly SEA-HNL-SEA (or any similar route) on a full tank of gas just to make the round-trip. It burns gas to haul extra gas (extra weight), so this would never be done.

Secondly, the A333 was used simply because the demand was there. In the off-season for Hawaii, NW uses 2x 753. In the heavy season, NW will now use 1x A333 and 1x 753

Quoting EVA777SEA (Reply 4):
I think that the A330 is coming back this winter. Is that aircraft currently helping with the 3x weekly addition to the SEA-NRT flight that is operated by an A333?

It is. The A333 out of SEA is on seasonal rotations. During the summer, it is used on the 3x weekly SEA-NRT on NW85/86. During the winter, it will be used on 1x daily SEA-HNL.

Quoting 787seattle (Reply 5):
What I meant was: Why was NW using such a large aircraft on a route so short for the type? (A330s can go like 5600nm, so why put them on a 2500nm route?)

Airlines do not schedule their planes on routes only to match their range profile. If that were done you'd see 757's on JFK-LHR. Airlines will use an aircraft that will best match their projected demands, give them the highest yields, and all these other factors. In the tourist season for Hawaii, the demand allows for a widebody on the route, instead of the standard 753.

Quoting Kohflot (Reply 6):
NW's switch to the A330 on SEA-HNL curiously happened right about the time AS started the same route.

This had nothing to do with it. SEA-HNL, in addition to being a capacity increase, was a positioning flight in a sense. As noted by an earlier poster, the A333's that fly NRT-SPN, NRT-GUM, and NRT-BKK (starting this summer), are all routed via MSP and SEA. MSP-HNL, and either SEA-HNL or SEA-NRT (respectively).

During the winter, that A333 will fly SEA-HNL, and then onward to NRT for Asia rotations. Over the summer when 2x 753's fly SEA-HNL, the A333 will make 3x weekly nonstops to NRT as NW85/86.



A340-500: 4 engines 4 long haul. 777-200LR: 2 engines 4 longer haul
User currently offline787seattle From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 641 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7703 times:



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 8):
First off, no airline would ever fly SEA-HNL-SEA (or any similar route) on a full tank of gas just to make the round-trip. It burns gas to haul extra gas (extra weight), so this would never be done.

Yeah I get that. I was just showing that the airplane could do it but won't.

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 8):
It is. The A333 out of SEA is on seasonal rotations. During the summer, it is used on the 3x weekly SEA-NRT on NW85/86. During the winter, it will be used on 1x daily SEA-HNL.

So it just has to do with the popular demand of passengers and carrying more at a time?



Student - KELN
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined exactly 7 years ago today! , 3193 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7679 times:



Quoting 787seattle (Reply 9):
So it just has to do with the popular demand of passengers and carrying more at a time?

Exactly.

During the winter, there is more demand for Hawaii. During the summer, there is more demand for Japan/Asia.



A340-500: 4 engines 4 long haul. 777-200LR: 2 engines 4 longer haul
User currently offlineEgcarter From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7509 times:

I took a RT from HNL-SEA-HNL on NW in late January on the A333. The flights were packed. Hawaiian also fills their twice daily 767-300ER RT''s between HNL and SEA. 'Nuff said!

User currently offlineMason From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 748 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7384 times:



Quoting Egcarter (Reply 11):
I took a RT from HNL-SEA-HNL on NW in late January on the A333. The flights were packed. Hawaiian also fills their twice daily 767-300ER RT''s between HNL and SEA. 'Nuff said!

HA has reduced their SEA-HNL flights to 7x weekly (from 14x weekly in the winter). They have retained their 7x weekly SEA-OGG for the summer, however.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19415 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7357 times:



Quoting 787seattle (Reply 5):
What I meant was: Why was NW using such a large aircraft on a route so short for the type? (A330s can go like 5600nm, so why put them on a 2500nm route?)

Yes, it does make a lot more sense to use a 753 on this route than an A330.

Because just because an aircraft has a long range doesn't mean that it is uneconomical to operate on a short trip. If you have a short trip, you just don't put much fuel aboard so that you don't have to haul it all the way there. Most long-range aircraft are designed to operate profitably on far shorter routes than their maximum range.

The 747-400 is fantastically profitable on the JFK-LHR or JFK-CDG routes, even though it can do SFO-SYD without batting an eyelash. The 752 can do CLE-LHR and does JFK-ORD all the time. UA even uses a coupla' 763's on SFO-DEN.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7297 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):
even though it can do SFO-SYD without batting an eyelash.

It is often weight limited to SYD and it might help if it had eyelashes to bat. It might help with propulsion...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineEVA777SEA From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7256 times:



Quoting Mason (Reply 12):
HA has reduced their SEA-HNL flights to 7x weekly (from 14x weekly in the winter). They have retained their 7x weekly SEA-OGG for the summer, however.

And come fall they will go 2x daily once again.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7221 times:



Quoting Mauiman31 (Reply 7):
I understand NW's A330 is a beautiful plane

..yes it is... Smile

...too bad we won't be seeing them for too much longer if DL takes NW over... Sad


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Jacobin777




"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineNorcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1446 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7093 times:



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 16):

Ooh no, another thread hijacked by Jacobin777 with his picture plug-ins.  duck   biggrin 



If you're going through hell, keep going
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined exactly 7 years ago today! , 3193 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7082 times:



Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 17):
Ooh no, another thread hijacked by Jacobin777 with his picture plug-ins.

And incessant use of the period key  Wink

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 16):
..yes



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 16):
is...



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 16):
...too



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 16):
over...




A340-500: 4 engines 4 long haul. 777-200LR: 2 engines 4 longer haul
User currently offlineJawed From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 482 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7050 times:

hey Jacobin777, nice pic  Wink

i recently flew a NW A330 HNL-MSP and i thought it was beautiful..

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 17):

Ooh no, another thread hijacked by Jacobin777 with his picture plug-ins.



User currently offlineNorcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1446 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7029 times:



Quoting Jawed (Reply 19):
hey Jacobin777, nice pic

Don't encourage him!  wink 

Quoting Jawed (Reply 19):
i recently flew a NW A330 HNL-MSP and i thought it was beautiful..

I flew an NW A332 SFO-NRT and I gotta agree, they are beautiful to look at. They are not SQ 77W's though!  biggrin 



If you're going through hell, keep going
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6721 times:



Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 17):

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 16):

Ooh no, another thread hijacked by Jacobin777 with his picture plug-ins.  duck   biggrin 

 rotfl ...but there are a number of A.netters who truly don't understand the world "beauty" until they see a photo...as long as I have one, I might as well put it in..... bigthumbsup 

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 18):
Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 17):
Ooh no, another thread hijacked by Jacobin777 with his picture plug-ins.

And incessant use of the period key  Wink

................what the 'ell are you talking about? Are you accusing me?..... biggrin 

Quoting Jawed (Reply 19):
hey Jacobin777, nice pic  Wink

Hey Jawed, thanks friend. Smile Unfortunately, I'm not really a SkyTeam FFer so I really won't be able to fly on NW's A330, thought I've flown on EK's A330's countless amounts of time.  yes 



Quoting Jawed (Reply 19):

i recently flew a NW A330 HNL-MSP and i thought it was beautiful..



Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 20):
Quoting Jawed (Reply 19):
hey Jacobin777, nice pic

Don't encourage him!  Wink

It's too late, one day, some day, when I'm no longer around on A.net, hopefully I'll be remembered as "the picture plug-in guy" (and the guy who incessantly used the "dot.dot.dot" key).... bigthumbsup 

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 20):
Quoting Jawed (Reply 19):
i recently flew a NW A330 HNL-MSP and i thought it was beautiful..

I flew an NW A332 SFO-NRT and I gotta agree, they are beautiful to look at. They are not SQ 77W's though!  biggrin 

I finally have to agree with you. spin 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineItsASmallWorld From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6709 times:

Maybe I am just a conspiracy theorist, but very shortly after Alaska Airlines announced SEA-HNL & LIH service, NW replaced the 757's with the A330. I just find it hard to believe that one didn't lead to the other.

User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3081 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6149 times:



Quoting ItsASmallWorld (Reply 22):
Maybe I am just a conspiracy theorist, but very shortly after Alaska Airlines announced SEA-HNL & LIH service, NW replaced the 757's with the A330. I just find it hard to believe that one didn't lead to the other.

Nah, that was the exact same time that NW happened to take a few new A333s from the factory, and when the 742s were retired. As SEA is a 330 base, it makes sense to rotate them through.


User currently offlineEgcarter From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 6082 times:



Quoting Mason (Reply 12):
HA has reduced their SEA-HNL flights to 7x weekly (from 14x weekly in the winter). They have retained their 7x weekly SEA-OGG for the summer, however.

Yes, as Winter is high season here in HI. There is method in their madness!


25 Burkhard : If you can fill it, an A333 makes money from SFO to LAX - so winter demand to HNL makes it the perfect fit, and in summer downsize to 753 also looks p
26 Transpac787 : Even if that were the case, what is wrong with that??
27 PSU.DTW.SCE : Remember that a few years ago SEA-HNL used to be 2x daily DC-10-30. For a while it went 1x DC-10, then it became 2x 753. Last winter they upgraded one
28 YWG747 : Maybe they wont need to refill for the ride home?
29 Wedgetail737 : Why would people doubt SEA having the market to support NW A330's to Hawaii??? SEA has double-daily HA flights with 763's to HNL and a single daily to
30 KC135TopBoom : When did DL (NW?) get B-757-300s? HA's B-767-300s are non-ERs.
31 Gigneil : Most of them are 767-300ERs. They got a few from Delta that are not. NS
32 NWAESC : You can add NW flying SEA-OGG daily with a 753 to that list...
33 DocLightning : Like 5-6 years ago? Maybe longer?
34 OptionsCLE : That's not entirely true. AA used to (and still may) fly MIA-PUJ with twice the necessary fuel on board so that the plane could make the return trip
35 Dennys : what a poor surprise ! this is not a brand new extraordinary 5hours flight ! what about the THAI A345 BKK-NYC , or RJA A342 AMM-ORD !!!! The 330 is ug
36 Transpac787 : You are right, there are exceptions to almost every rule. That being said though, MIA-PUJ is far shorter than SEA-HNL. An A333 carrying gas for the r
37 Viscount724 : According to Airfleets.net 14 of HA's 18 767-300s are -ERs. NW's 16 757-300s were delivered in 2002 and 2003.
38 ItsASmallWorld : I don't believe UA is continuing with their SEA-HNL flights anymore. It was seasonal, and I believe it is axed. AAlso, I believe some of the HA fligh
39 EVA777SEA : They did just fine over the winter without AS's help. Infact, SEA-HNL was 1x daily and SEA-OGG was 3x weekly until only last year. People said that l
40 Transpac787 : UA's SEA-HNL is seasonal and Sat-only operated, same with SAN-HNL.
41 Norcal773 : What a senseless post that doesn't even make sense!
42 787seattle : huh? But, I must agree that the A330 is ugly compared to the triple 7 and the 767. I was sort of confused at this also. Lets go back to large airplan
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