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BA Cut Capacity On YYC Route Winter 08/09  
User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 5132 times:

With effect of the Winter08/09 timetable BA will be cutting capacity on its YYC/LHR route.

The route that is currently operated by a 777 will change to a daily 767. The 767 is configured with 24J/24W/141M and are all already fitted with AVOD. They however will not be fitted with the CW stretch seats.

BA where originally planning to cut the service to 5 times a weekhowever they found they could cut capacity by using a 767 but still operate daily. YYC is a good route for leisure pax however during last winter it saw a large number of invol upgrades as it could only fill half it's J (48 seats) and W ( up to 40 seats) cabins but could easily oversell it's M cabin.

The 767 offers 141M seats compared to the current 777's 124M. It is hoped that there will be less need for invol upgrades this winter.

The change will result in F being removed.


I know that aircraft downsizing isn't liked by many however it is better than a frequency cut or even a complete withdrawl

The route will be reviewed in November as all routes are by the route and fleet planning department. BA will take delivery of 4 new 777's from Jan to Apr 09.

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8486 posts, RR: 55
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 5082 times:
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From a passenger's view, I'd rather fly a 767 to a 777 anyway.

Not flown J in BA's 767's, but W and Y pax are better off IMHO.

W class on the 767 is like a small private cabin, very nice indeed!

M



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 5023 times:



Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 1):
From a passenger's view, I'd rather fly a 767 to a 777 anyway.

Not flown J in BA's 767's, but W and Y pax are better off IMHO.

W class on the 767 is like a small private cabin, very nice indeed!

I work on them regularly and apart from the lack of overhead locker space it is a much more pax friendly aircraft and the smaller cabins are usually popular with pax. Also when you look at the M seat pitch it looks like there is more than on the 777.

J on the 767 is a 2/2/2 config from doors 1 to 2 and W is always popular due to the size of the cabin


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24803 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 4986 times:



Quoting BALHRWWCC (Thread starter):
I know that aircraft downsizing isn't liked by many however it is better than a frequency cut or even a complete withdrawl

I much prefer the 767 to the 777. Only a 1 in 7 chance of a middle seat in Y class vs. 1 in 3 on a 9-abreast 777. It also makes sense to drop F class as there is little demand to/from Canada whiich is why AC and many other carrier eliminated first class service to/from Canada many years ago. Daily service will also make BA's service more competitive with AC, especially for business traffic where BA is already handicapped in the YYC market with most YYC business travellers locked into AC's frequent flyer program.


User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 4951 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):
I much prefer the 767 to the 777. Only a 1 in 7 chance of a middle seat in Y class vs. 1 in 3 on a 9-abreast 777. It also makes sense to drop F class as there is little demand to/from Canada whiich is why AC and many other carrier eliminated first class service to/from Canada many years ago. Daily service will also make BA's service more competitive with AC, especially for business traffic where BA is already handicapped in the YYC market with most YYC business travellers locked into AC's frequent flyer program.


BA has only to date operated first as it was part of an agreement with one of it's major corporate customers. However after a recent meeting the said company has changed it's travel policy for staff and no longer need them to travel in F.

There has not been much change to the BA timetable.

BA103 Dep LHR 16:00 Arr YYC 18:30 Days 1-7
BA102 Dep YYC 20:10 Arr LHR 12:15 Days 1,2,4,5,6,7
BA102 Dep YYC 22:10 Arr LHR 14:15 Day 3


Do you think the change of aircraft type will be enough to make the route profitable and keep BA flying to YYC?


User currently offlineBO__einG From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2770 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 4900 times:

I think an equipment change is good and it helps to adjust to the kind of Market Calgary is.
Glad it is a equipment change rather than a frequency cut. I think long term BA will continue to do well and I hope someday it will pick up enough to warrant the 747, even if it will take a number of years.

Lufthansa started flying this week and I am eager to see how things are so far. That carrier does have first class service and I wonder if any of the calgarians will make use of it on its A333s.



Chance favors the prepared mind.
User currently offlineTheginge From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 1131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week ago) and read 4846 times:

I think they are changing it to a 767 to fund a 777 to go down at Gatwick for the new JFK route. The 767 is coming from the MAN-JFK route that will finish at the same time.

User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4766 times:



Quoting Theginge (Reply 6):
think they are changing it to a 767 to fund a 777 to go down at Gatwick for the new JFK route. The 767 is coming from the MAN-JFK route that will finish at the same time.


Yep it sure is I did say on the LGW/JFK thread that that was where it was going. The 767 is a good longhaul aircraft for BA to start a route, add capacity or reduce capacity on a route not suited to 777 it is going to operate next winter to

YYC/IAD/BWI/PHL/NAS/EWR/YYZ/TLV/ACC/EBB/DAR/LUN/DXB


User currently offlineYVR1968 From Australia, joined Feb 2004, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4665 times:



Quoting BALHRWWCC (Thread starter):
With effect of the Winter08/09 timetable BA will be cutting capacity on its YYC/LHR route.

Is this really a capacity cut? My math shows 7 daily 767-300 (189 seats) vs 5 daily 777 (228 seats) is actually a capacity increase (total seats). 1323 seats per week on the 767 vs 1140 seats per week on the 777.

Correct me if I am wrong.


User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4623 times:



Quoting YVR1968 (Reply 8):
Is this really a capacity cut? My math shows 7 daily 767-300 (189 seats) vs 5 daily 777 (228 seats) is actually a capacity increase (total seats). 1323 seats per week on the 767 vs 1140 seats per week on the 777.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Correct however was working on summer timetable


User currently offlineBCA2005 From India, joined Sep 2005, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4616 times:



Quoting YVR1968 (Reply 8):
Is this really a capacity cut? My math shows 7 daily 767-300 (189 seats) vs 5 daily 777 (228 seats) is actually a capacity increase (total seats). 1323 seats per week on the 767 vs 1140 seats per week on the 777.

While this is correct, BA have already just recently increased YYC to daily with the 772, so when it is downsized to daily 767 in October, it will be a capacity reduction. However, in comparison to W07/08 schedule, it will indeed be an increase in capacity on the route.


User currently offlineAH332 From Algeria, joined Mar 2007, 276 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4573 times:

Hi,

Quoting BALHRWWCC (Reply 7):
YYC/IAD/BWI/PHL/NAS/EWR/YYZ/TLV/ACC/EBB/DAR/LUN/DXB

I thought that BA were getting rid of EBB? Glad to see they're not!

Cheers,
Imad



Bledi Heya Al Djazaeer! // Next Flights: AB MIA-DUS-ORY, AF ORY-MRS-ALG
User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4553 times:



Quoting AH332 (Reply 11):
I thought that BA were getting rid of EBB? Glad to see they're not!

BA have never had any plans to remove EBB from the timetable.


User currently offlineSam1987 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 946 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4292 times:



Quoting BALHRWWCC (Reply 12):
BA have never had any plans to remove EBB from the timetable.

I think that was just a rumour. EBB is a big earner for BA apparently, so I'd be surprised to it go.



Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
User currently offlineUPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4210 times:



Quoting BALHRWWCC (Thread starter):
They however will not be fitted with the CW stretch seats.

I don't get the term "stretch", AFAIK both old and new CW cabins have "stretch" seats as both are fully flat 180º recline.

Do you mean by "will not be fitted with CW stretch seats" that it will be a long haul 767 which are not planned to be fitted with the new CW cabin as the T7's will?



744,742,741,772,773,762,732,735,738,752,727,717,DC10,DC9,M82,M87,319,320,321,343,346,L1011,CRJ2,CRJ9,E190,ATR42,DSH8,
User currently offlineSpeedbird2155 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 871 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4158 times:



Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 14):
I don't get the term "stretch", AFAIK both old and new CW cabins have "stretch" seats as both are fully flat 180º recline.

The term "stretch" is the name given to the conversion from the old club world flat bed seats to the new club world flat beds. So far the 747s have all been through the "stretch" and the 777s are about to start. The 767s won't get the new "stretch" fittings as they have only recently been completed with the flat bed seats and also have a limited time within the BA fleet.


User currently offlineVio From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3382 times:

I flew BA's 777 from YYC to LHR this winter and I really liked the 777, but who knows, maybe the 767 will appeal more to passengers.

Regardless, this is not a good sign for BA or for YYC. It means that BA was expecting something and didn't quite materialize the way they wanted it. Like BO_ing said, I hope they will one day bring in the 747, but Calgary needs to grow a whole lot more for that.

Good luck to YYC and BA.

Cheers,

Vio
Vancouver, Canada



Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2129 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3376 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):
BA is already handicapped in the YYC market with most YYC business travellers locked into AC's frequent flyer program.

This always confuses me. I wonder if any travelers are indeed 'locked in' to AC and Aeroplan. If they truly prefer BA to AC in this case, why don't they simply switch loyalties at the beginning of the calendar year and accrue OW status? The YYC-based travelers may fly many routes on which AC is the only viable option, but surely they can still gain their Gold or Elite status in more than one awards program.

Quoting BO__einG (Reply 5):
I think long term BA will continue to do well and I hope someday it will pick up enough to warrant the 747, even if it will take a number of years.

Isn't that wishful thinking? I can't see the demand increasing that much, even given a few years. By the time it does, BA may likely be flying many more large twins rather than burn a 744 on the route.

Quoting Theginge (Reply 6):
I think they are changing it to a 767 to fund a 777 to go down at Gatwick for the new JFK route.

Bingo (although I have no idea which ex-Gatwick route it will serve). BA from all accounts could use a few more 777s on some lucrative routes. Calgary may rank fairly low on that priority list.



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineTcxdegsy From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 517 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3350 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):
It also makes sense to drop F class as there is little demand to/from Canada whiich is why AC and many other carrier eliminated first class service to/from Canada many years ago.

Interestingly, I just checked a random December return trip LHR-YYC on BA and AC.

Econ - exactly the same at £556.50
Club World £2204.50 and Executive First £2004.50!

With AC's new EF cabin seats, that's a competative price, with a saving of 10% on BA's fare



next flights: BA1441 0566 0581 1446 EDI-LHR-MXP-LHR-EDI
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24803 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2775 times:



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 17):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):
BA is already handicapped in the YYC market with most YYC business travellers locked into AC's frequent flyer program.

This always confuses me. I wonder if any travelers are indeed 'locked in' to AC and Aeroplan. If they truly prefer BA to AC in this case, why don't they simply switch loyalties at the beginning of the calendar year and accrue OW status? The YYC-based travelers may fly many routes on which AC is the only viable option, but surely they can still gain their Gold or Elite status in more than one awards program.

That's true for VERY frequent travellers but not for the more typical passengers who probably fly AC mostly on domestic routes with maybe once or twice to Europe a year. BA's Executive Club program is also quite restrictive in terms of the fare types eligible for elite status in their program. If you mostly fly economy class as many business travellers do, I think you can reach elite status more easily in Aeroplan (and almost all programs other than BA's).


User currently offlinePnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2225 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days ago) and read 2725 times:

I think we also have to wait and see how LHR sorts itself out. If passengers are transiting the UK and transfering to flights elsewhere, there are other options that haven't seen the negative press that Heathrow has been getting for a long time now with flight delays etc. LH allows you to accumulate Aeroplan points if that is your program of choice and the flights out of Franfurt are extensive. If the destination is London then there is only charters, BA and AC. I am not sure how many charter flights there are in the winter as well.

User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2657 times:

So here's a little table showing BA's frequency / equip changes from Summer to Winter... Happens all the time and it's not a big deal! and yes, I was that bored  Smile

Americas
TOSUMMER 08WINTER 08CHANGE
Antigua4x7777x777+3x777
Atlanta7x7777x777--
Baltimore7x7677x767--
Barbados10x7779x777-1x777
Bermuda7x7775x777-2x777
Boston7x744, 14x77721x777-7x744, +7x777
Buenos Aires4x7447x744+3x744
Calgary7x7777x767-7x777, +7x767
Chicago14x744, 7x7777x744, 14x777-7x744, +7x777
Dallas7x7777x777--
Denver7x7777x777--
Grand Cayman4x7674x767--
Grenada1x7772x777+1x777
Houston14x77714x777--
Kingston3x7773x777--
Los Angeles21x74421x744--
Mexico4x7443x744-1x744
Miami14x74414x744--
Montreal7x7777x777--
Nassau5x7675x767--
New York48x744, 7x777, 7x76742x744, 20x777-6x744, -6x767, +13x777
Newark14x777, 7x7671x744, 13x777, 6x767-1x777, -1x767, +1x744
Orlando10x7777x777-3x777
Philadelphia7x777, 7x7677x777, 7x767--
Phoenix6x7446x744--
Port of Spain3x7773x777--
Providenciales1x7671x767--
Rio de Janeiro3x7443x777-3x744, +3x777
San Francisco14x74414x744--
Sao Paulo7x7447x744--
Seattle6x744, 7x7776x744, 4x777-3x777
St Lucia1x7773x777+2x777
Tampa5x7775x777--
Tobago2x7773x777+1x777
Toronto5x744, 12x7677x777, 7x767-5x744, -5x767, +7x777
Vancouver13x7447x744-6x744
Washington11x744, 6x777, 7x7677x744, 7x777, 7x767-4x744


User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2657 times:

(continued)

Asia, Africa, Middle East
TOSUMMER 08WINTER 08CHANGE
Abu Dhabi7x7777x777--
Abuja7x7777x777--
Accra7x7677x767--
Bahrain7x7777x744-7x777, +7x744
Bangalore7x7447x744--
Bangkok7x7447x744--
Beijing7x7447x777-7x744, +7x777
Bombay7x744, 7x7777x744, 7x777--
Cairo7x7447x744--
Calcutta3x7773x777--
Cape Town7x74414x744+7x744
Dar es Salaam3x7673x767--
Delhi14x77714x744-14x777, +14x744
Dhaka3x7773x777--
Doha7x7777x744-7x777, +7x744
Dubai14x7777x744, 7x777, 6x767-7x777, +7x744, +6x767
Entebbe3x7673x767--
Hong Kong21x74421x744--
Hyderabad--5x777+5x777
Islamabad6x7776x777--
Johannesburg14x74414x744--
Kuwait7x7777x777--
Lagos7x7447x744--
Luanda1x7771x777--
Lusaka3x7673x767--
Madras5x7775x777--
Mauritius3x7443x744--
Muscat7x7777x777--
Nairobi7x7777x777--
Shanghai5x7775x777--
Singapore7x744, 7x7777x744, 7x777--
Sydney7x744, 7x7777x744, 7x777--
Tel Aviv7x777, 7x7677x777, 7x767--
Tokyo14x74414x744--


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