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AA To Quit LGA-MSP  
User currently offlineAJMIA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 733 posts, RR: 15
Posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8393 times:

The loads on LGA-MSP have been awful...

Finally AA has decided to pull the plug on 3x daily MD80s eff. 6/1.

I wonder what the LGA slots will be used for? Nothing new has been posted yet. Would be nice to put back a couple LGA-TPA flights.

AJMIA


Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
75 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLONGisland89 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 738 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8262 times:

I remember seeing a flight go out a few weeks ago with something like 10 people on board.

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3778 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8246 times:

The red tail strikes again!

Maybe AA could start an FWA-LGA flight with MQ's ERJ-135s, and one or two other LGA routes? FWA is a very strong city for Eagle, and I wouldn't be surprised to see FWA-LGA come into the system.

[Edited 2008-04-19 18:58:20]


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8655 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8221 times:

It was an interesting little war, while it lasted.

AA put one over on NW. NW clobbered them with all-757 service between MSP and LGA.

NW launched DFW-LGA on A319, in bold retaliation to AA's monopoly hub to LGA route. Then, NW dropped it. However, many speculated NW's true retribution would come by launching DFW-AMS on A333. Lo and behold, that service has just begun for spring 2008, under the KLM banner of the KLM / NW joint venture, in which NW shares 50% of the revenues and costs of the trip.

Overall, quite a war. And the winner seems to be NW. Chalk it up yet again to NW's defenses of MSP, which may draw to a close as NW ceases to exist, replaced by DL, an airline that has proven unable to eradicate LCCs from its hubs, unless you count CVG.

NW's reputation remains quite strong with this victory over AA.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8179 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 3):
an airline that has proven unable to eradicate LCCs from its hubs, unless you count CVG.

What Legacy carrier, in your amusing little sense of perception, has been successful at "eradicating" low cost carriers from its primary hubs, do share.

Please if you would let it be something like UA@IAD, or AA@DFW... we could all use a good laugh.


User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4406 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8044 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 3):
Chalk it up yet again to NW's defenses of MSP, which may draw to a close as NW ceases to exist, replaced by DL, an airline that has proven unable to eradicate LCCs from its hubs, unless you count CVG.

Don't forget the ninety-day Battle of Atlanta, where jetBlue was run out of Hartsfield with its blue tail between its legs.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineAA 777 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 808 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7983 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

AJMIA,

I dont doubt you, but where did you hear this? They are still in Sabre.



CRJ-700 FO
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9577 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7932 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 3):
Lo and behold, that service has just begun for spring 2008, under the KLM banner of the KLM / NW joint venture, in which NW shares 50% of the revenues and costs of the trip.

and with a A332.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 3):
an airline that has proven unable to eradicate LCCs from its hubs, unless you count CVG.

Ever heard of Sun County?



yep.
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7878 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 3):
replaced by DL, an airline that has proven unable to eradicate LCCs from its hubs, unless you count CVG.

 rotfl 
Have you looked at any LCC route map recently  footinmouth 
The Big Six and their main hubs and focus cities:
UA: SFO, ORD, IAD, DEN, LAX
US: PHL, PIT, CLT, LGA, PHX, LAS
DL: ATL, SLC, CVG, MCO, LGA
NW: MSP, DTW, MEM, SEA
CO: IAH, CLE, EWR
AA: DFW, ORD, MIA, STL, LGA

Now, would you please go down the list and point out which of these airports do not have LCC service? I eagerly await your response.


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7846 times:



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 8):

Now, would you please go down the list and point out which of these airports do not have LCC service? I eagerly await your response.

MSP's LCC presence is almost negligible with Sun Country not being that big of a competitor on anything but leisure routes.

CVG's is absolutely nil (counting FL/F9 @ DAY is too much of a stretch- DAY is a respectable travel market on its own).

MEM's token E170's to DEN aren't really much either.


User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3214 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7846 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 7):
Ever heard of Sun County?

...Who just laid off 30% of their pilots.

Unless you only see things in black & white and all or nothing (ala AQ, TZ), NW seems to be dealing with them pretty well.


User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7838 times:



Quoting Avek00 (Reply 5):
Don't forget the ninety-day Battle of Atlanta, where jetBlue was run out of Hartsfield with its blue tail between its legs.

FL had a lot to with that also. Also, B6 only served OAK and LGB from there, and they still only offer so many connections in either of those airports. ATL has a lot of O&D, but only for two carriers, so it seems.

I'm surprised it didn't work out, since MSP has a lot of O&D as well. Maybe it was due to the lack of connections or not as many people knowing about it, or the fact that AA doesn't have that big a presence in LGA compared to US and DL. I would love to see B6 serve MSP some day (nonstop from BOS would be even better) but this makes me wonder if they would want to try it.



2013 World Series Champions!
User currently offlineKingAir200 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1623 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7822 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 7):
and with a A332.

So? Would you have preferred a 744?

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 7):
Ever heard of Sun County?

Yeah, we have heard of SY. But unless you are going to HRL, they don't do much for you.  duck  In all honesty, SY has been trying to really make a dent in NWA at MSP, and they have made some inroads, no doubt, but I don't think they will ever come close to unseating NWA as the grand champion of the Minnesota Skies.



Hey Swifty
User currently offlineCOflyerBOS From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7802 times:

IAH lacks a low cost carrier.

WN pulled out and now only serves HOU. FL also serves HOU as does B6.

Only F9 exists at IAH outside the Big 6 and foreign flag carriers.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8655 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7788 times:

Okay, I am convinced. DL at ATL is every bit the fortress that NW at MSP is. I am convinced! It is true! Except for the "being true" part.

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11754 posts, RR: 62
Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7753 times:

Smart move. If the flights weren't performing, then it was smart to cut their losses - much like Northwest's stupid attempt at DFW-LGA that never even started.

If you ask me, I think a great place to put a few of those slots is back at MCI - Midwest is cutting some capacity in the MCI market, and I think AA could make it work again if they tried with a well-timed schedule, say a morning and evening flight in each direction.


User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7719 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 14):
Okay, I am convinced. DL at ATL is every bit the fortress that NW at MSP is. I am convinced! It is true! Except for the "being true" part.

Okay, we're convinced too. You don't know what you're talking about, as pointed out that (just about) every other hub or focus city has some form of an LCC presence.

Quoting COflyerBOS (Reply 13):
IAH lacks a low cost carrier.

WN pulled out and now only serves HOU. FL also serves HOU as does B6.

Only F9 exists at IAH outside the Big 6 and foreign flag carriers.

To my knowledge F9 is an LCC.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 9):
CVG's is absolutely nil (counting FL/F9 @ DAY is too much of a stretch- DAY is a respectable travel market on its own).

If you're going to count that as stretching it, then you most certainly have to count WN at MDW and DAL as effecting UA and DFW in the respective markets, ignoring the LCCs that already serve ORD and DFW directly, as well as WN at HOU effecting CO at IAH.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 9):
MSP's LCC presence is almost negligible with Sun Country not being that big of a competitor on anything but leisure routes.

FL serves four markets out of MSP: ATL, MDW, MCO, and TPA.


User currently offlinePHXtoDCAtoMSP From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7651 times:



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 16):
FL serves four markets out of MSP: ATL, MDW, MCO, and TPA.

MDW service was recently cut


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7642 times:



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 16):

If you're going to count that as stretching it, then you most certainly have to count WN at MDW and DAL as effecting UA and DFW in the respective markets, ignoring the LCCs that already serve ORD and DFW directly, as well as WN at HOU effecting CO at IAH.

You misunderstood me. What I was getting at was anyone trying to say that DAY IS affecting CVG is the one stretching it. Even though many unknowledgeable people here try to say that DAY is nothing but the LCC airport for Cincy.

MDW/ORD, and DAL/DFW are the same city/metroplex and travel markets as one another. Dayton and Cincinnati are separate cities, with 2 whole counties in between them even, over 60 mile drives, and separate MSA/travel markets. You can fly and claim it as cross-country time if you got in a Cessna and went DAY-CVG (It's over 50 nm by air) you sure as hell can't do that DAL-DFW, IAH-HOU, or ORD-MDW.

If DAY and CVG are the same market, then ORD and MKE are, they're almost the exact same distance apart.


User currently offlineB6fll From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7637 times:

Oh please, will you guys let go of B6 in ATL and how Delta ran us off. Jetblue could easily compete there..I didnt say anything more than compete, but now that we are bigger we could hold are own in ATL...

User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1626 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7625 times:

COflyerBOS,

IAH and HOU are the same City.... so to say Houston has no LCC is incorect...


User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7547 times:



Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 18):
You misunderstood me. What I was getting at was anyone trying to say that DAY IS affecting CVG is the one stretching it. Even though many unknowledgeable people here try to say that DAY is nothing but the LCC airport for Cincy.

No I understood what you were saying, because what you were saying was DAY was just outside of the Cincinnati rim, so therefore that what I was saying was that must mean ORD and MDW and DFW and DAL are easily within the same rim.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 18):
If DAY and CVG are the same market, then ORD and MKE are, they're almost the exact same distance apart.

Plenty of people do use DAY as the alternative though (only to often fly right back through CVG). I know because I've been one of them many times. However, a lot of people don't have to drive from Chicago to MKE because they have LCC service right there in town where as in Cincinnati, that's not the case. So it's an apples and oranges comparison.

Until DAB got FL service last year, DAB was the same way with MCO and JAX, and MCO is still the LCC alternative to MLB. GSO is the same way- many people drive to RDU (or sometimes CLT) as the LCC alternative.

Quoting PHXtoDCAtoMSP (Reply 17):
Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 16):
FL serves four markets out of MSP: ATL, MDW, MCO, and TPA.

MDW service was recently cut

It was still showing on their route map, which is why I put it up.
Either way, MSP still has an LCC presence, which clearly counter's Flighty's statement.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9577 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7532 times:



Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 12):
So? Would you have preferred a 744?

Nope I think the A332 is just right I was just putting it out there.............not trying to offend.



yep.
User currently offlineShannoninAMA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7498 times:



Quoting B6fll (Reply 19):
could hold are own in ATL...

...Just not in any spelling bees...  duck 

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 21):

Either way, MSP still has an LCC presence, which clearly counter's Flighty's statement.

Indeed, and also shows how well NW seems to be handling it. After all, they have quite the following there, even with the late expansion by FL and other LCCs. You know they've looked impressive, after all...How many years has WN MSP service been on the "Rumor block"? I'm starting to think thats a no-go.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 21):

Plenty of people do use DAY as the alternative though (only to often fly right back through CVG). I know because I've been one of them many times. However, a lot of people don't have to drive from Chicago to MKE because they have LCC service right there in town where as in Cincinnati, that's not the case. So it's an apples and oranges comparison.

Well put. However, if a gaping hole develops from DL (as rumored) cutting flights, I'm sure you'll get some LCC intervention in the market. Not nearly the size that DL has, but still enough to keep prices in check.


Shan Big grin


User currently offlineFlydreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7497 times:

It's sad to see that MSP is losing the competition. I was hoping this would survive. so ein gluck.

Delta, albeit with SkyTeam complicity, has started its own JFK-MSP service, instead of being reliant upon NW service. I wonder if this will survive....



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
25 FruteBrute : If I was a LCC carrier I would launch an assault on the NWA MSP hub. If NW responds in their usual fashion cruicify them with the justice dept and blo
26 Iowaman : It's my airline wet dream for WN to go in with 40 dailies or so to MDW,STL,MCI,LAS,PHX,HOU,MCO,BNA,BWI, and just to agitate them more- MSP-DTW. Obvio
27 FruteBrute : Tell me about it. I always figured Southwest would at least fly into Rochester, MN as northern Iowa, southern MN, and the southern most suburbs of MS
28 FlyDeltaJets87 : Thanks. My first bet would be FL or maybe B6. CVG could use any relief, but ironically fares seem to be hit or miss. I'm looking at a fare right now
29 NWAESC : NW was smart to never have started DFW-LGA... It would have been a slow suicide, just like AA's attempt was. My question is this: The 3 slots NW was
30 Mir : Not much of one. Certainly not compared to the rest of the big hubs on your list. -Mir
31 Syncmaster : Don't get me wrong, as a native of the area, I like FWA, but that won't be happening any time soon. These airlines are now cutting capacity due to hi
32 Flighty : For the record, I was really talking about LCC hub operations, not just a couple of LCC feeder departures. Delta's 2 main hubs both have LCC hubs. NW
33 MillwallSean : Fuel is at 115 dollars and you are talking expansion or even establishments of new hubs. Reality check? The last thing any airline should do is get th
34 MQTmxguy : Of course not, DL already called dibs on that gig.
35 TN757Flyer : If DL did not run JetBlue off, then why after such a short period of time, did they pull out? As I recall, when B6 entered ATL, DL went up to like 15
36 PRAirbus : Not surprising especially when competing to/from NWA's biggest hub...same might happen on other markets when DL/NW merge.
37 Commavia : Only time will tell, but I suspect AA will do better on LGA-ATL. AA is a bigger, stronger player in Atlanta than in Minneapolis, and has lots of busi
38 Floridaflyboy : What two main hubs are we talking about here? ATL certainly does in the form of FL, so I take it you're definitely talking about that. But their seco
39 SNCntry32 : SY captures the ma and pa audience taking their kids to MCO for spring break. . As does NW, SY just does it with better customer service. Does anyone
40 FlyDeltaJets87 : No it doesn't Did you forget Spirit's operations at DTW? NK's biggest operation is FLL but they do have a presence of more than just a couple feeder
41 RedTailDTW : I think he meant that DL doesn't do a very good job at trying to keep LCC's away from their hubs, whereas NW does it very well with all of their hubs
42 EXAAUADL : KL/NW should be serving that anyways..regardless of twhat AA does in MSP-LGA B6 should have been flying ATL-JFK not ATL-LGB. If WN did their routes p
43 Flighty : The timing was incredibly coincidental. What did Einstein say? Coincidences are God's way of remaining anonymous? Anyway, so people have shown that m
44 PSU.DTW.SCE : NK's DTW operation is similar to SY in MSP. Most token service to leisure destinations. NK has scaled back in DTW for the past year or two. For a whi
45 Transpac787 : Is it just me or does this post reek of armchair CEO'ing??
46 Floridaflyboy : Not really. All three of the points you quoted him saying are quite valid. DFW is in fact a huge market, and it definitely makes sense for NW/KL to s
47 Yellowtail : Maybe..but they serve two completely different part of the city (IAH from 1-10 north, HOU..south) ....one can compare it to LGA and EWR...
48 Cubsrule : Agreed, but if you ask me, AA should also be flying MCI-MIA, and they could have started that yesterday had they wanted to. I've always thought AA co
49 MAH4546 : You do a good job of not mentioning the fact that AirTran launched ATL-LAX/SFO at around the same time in an attempt to make your argument seem sound
50 TOLtommy : AA will be looking for markets from LGA that NW won't decide to protect. AA has been getting chased out of too many markets that NW considers theirs.
51 AJMIA : AA's hub raids to ATL and CLT from LGA did very well. I would have thought they would do better on MSP. Hopefully they will redeploy the slots and M80
52 MAH4546 : If by "too many" you mean "two," then you'd be correct: FNT-LGA and MSP-LGA.
53 TN757Flyer : Ah sorry, I did indeed forget FL. I'm sure their 2x daily 320's really contributed mightily to B6 demise in ATL. I realize you are the all knowing on
54 MAH4546 : It most definitely did contribute. There's been endless and endless discussions about B6's Atlanta-California attempts on these boards, and it is bla
55 Cubsrule : I might argue that FL WAS what killed B6. B6 probably expected a strong competitive response from DL. FL's entry into the market-- remember that they
56 TN757Flyer : You know, you really need to get over yourself. Your just arrogant but that's ok. I've been reading your put-downs of other members for several years
57 Coronado : Not a prayer during the 6 months of winter--if you live in the southern and southeastern suburbs of the Twin Cities you are only 10 minutes drive awa
58 RedTailDTW : Actually, There is three. You forgot GRR-LGA Mason (RedTailDTW)
59 EMB170 : Don't forget that both DL and FL offered their FFs triple credits *not* to try B6 and stick with their respective programs (SkyMiles/A+ Rewards). At
60 TN757Flyer : I'm sure this also factored in greatly. As someone else posted, the logical move for B6 to have done ATL-JFK despite the presence of DL in that marke
61 Cubsrule : Given their slot situation at ORD, I'm not sure how much we can conclude about their performance based on changes in aircraft size and destinations.
62 Srbmod : Especially since other than one Song ATL-JFK flight a day, the route was all CRJs. I'm guessing B6 just didn't have the nuts to raise the stakes. It'
63 Cubsrule : I wonder if they felt there was too much competition to NYC. I really think they thought they were going to have to contend with one airline (DL), no
64 TN757Flyer : Well, it seems to me 5x daily on a 320 at 156 (I believe ) seats to 4x daily on an E90 at 100 seats is not an overwhelming endorsement that this is a
65 Cubsrule : The fact that they can't fill 156 seats at the time they have does not necessarily mean that they couldn't fill 156 seats at other times... unless I'
66 BOStonsox : The A320 has 150 seats and the E190 has 100. I don't work for B6 but I think that by making a few adjustments they could be profitable, and that seem
67 TN757Flyer : Do you know if the ORD flights are profitable? Is there anyone who actually knows? I'm not saying they aren't, just I've not seen any evidence they a
68 MSYtristar : Perhaps the seasonal LGA-MSY will come back on a permanent, year round basis. Well....probably not....but it would be nice to have two airlines flying
69 Cubsrule : Every one of these assertions can be explained by something other than the existence of legacy hubs. B6 isn't strong in the inner part of the country
70 TN757Flyer : OK. When you give me numbers on how well they are doing at ORD, I'll comment. Otherwise this reply of yours basically backs up what I posted that you
71 Cubsrule : Again, they've done fine at CLT. As a dual hub, ORD isn't really comparable to anything, though.
72 BOStonsox : I don't know if the ORD flights are profitable, I'm not going to lie to you. I'd like to know the same thing. I'm sure that just because they made a
73 TN757Flyer : I'll agree that NW got AA on this one because of the cnx traffic offered @ MSP. I never quite understood those one by AA anyway. I know they have a l
74 Cubsrule : We should probably add that routes which are overwhelmingly one direction can work if there's enough volume. MDW-LGA on DL comes to mind.
75 BOStonsox : Agreed. A lot of New Yorkers travel to Chicago and visa versa. Although DL isn't that big in Chicago it can get a lot of New Yorkers on that route. I
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