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LAS - The Next PIT For US  
User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3347 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7093 times:

Someone from US told me that the planned schedule for August will drop LAS to 100 flights daily, less than BOS/DCA/LGA etc.

I guess it must be true that LAS is being de-hubbed and also 100 agents are to be laid off in the coming weeks.

I got a chance to fly into LAS on US a week ago and take a red-eye out and it was very dark and morbid, the gates were all at A and not B and was hardly filled up as it use to be in the good years for red-eyes.


There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRolo987 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7071 times:

How many daily flights does US have at LAS now?

User currently offlineN670UW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1604 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6981 times:



Quoting Malaysia (Thread starter):
Someone from US told me that the planned schedule for August will drop LAS to 100 flights daily, less than BOS/DCA/LGA etc.

US at Las Vegas is already down to around 94 daily flights as it is.


User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6959 times:

Oh so the 100 in August schedule must have been an estimate, I guess its more dramatic than estimated


There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offlineNWADC9 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4897 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6957 times:

Ok, so the important question on many people's minds is...

Which hub will US keep?! Big grin



Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6943 times:



Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 4):

CLT-PHL-PHX

Focus Cities

LGA-BOS-DCA

Just my guess.

LAS might not even be a Focus city.

I think there does go some reasoning why they built and shut down the service desk in B and I think US will
eventually use just A wing?



There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offlineRolo987 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6890 times:



Quoting Malaysia (Thread starter):
Someone from US told me that the planned schedule for August will drop LAS to 100 flights daily, less than BOS/DCA/LGA etc.

Why wait until August?


User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5029 posts, RR: 28
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6837 times:

US should keep their red eye banks out of LAS at least to keep those planes flying. I think US has a great system out of LAS, and I love to fly them and connect through there for a chance to throw a few bucks into the machines at the airport. I always wondered why they had two hubs so close to each other, but LAS is easy money for them. I can see them using LAS as a focus city, and maintaining at least 50-75 flights a day.


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2673 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6703 times:



Quoting F9Animal (Reply 7):
US should keep their red eye banks out of LAS at least to keep those planes flying.

That used to be a valid argument when oil was $60/barrel. Now, it's $115. It's probably cheaper in most cases to just let the plane sit overnight now. It's sad, but US is a business, and as such, must minimize the bleeding. LAS just happens to be one of the open wounds.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 7):
but LAS is easy money for them.

According to those 'in the know' here on A.net, they're losing money in LAS.


User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4396 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6667 times:
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US had a niche with the redeyes, but now that fuel is so expensive, it's not really a valid argument anymore. US really can't compete with WN on the shorthaul too well out of Vegas, places like RNO and SLC where WN has 13x and 8x non-stop respectively, US barely holds a daily CRJ, with an A319 thrown in at times to RNO IIRC. I would imagine Southwest will continue a slow LAS expansion (really slowed now), and may have interest in the US gates they are giving up. If fuel comes down in a few years Allegiant will most likely have a need for a few more as well.


Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5902 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6564 times:
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If US is slowly deserting LAS as a hub or focus city, I'm sure there will be another airline who will think they can make big bucks on opening a hub there...especially if we have another boom in new-entrant airlines.

User currently offlineShannoninAMA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6555 times:

Kind of ironic what these two former hubs sound like.

LOSS and PIT. Coincidence? I think not  Wink I guess they plan to keep PHL, since you can somewhat make FILL out of that one  Wink


User currently offlineHondah35 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6531 times:

It would be really bad for US if they can't compete in LAS......PIT is one thing, that is a stagnant O&D market, but LAS and PHX are the fastest growing areas of the nation, and being able to compete in those markets is part of the key to being able to compete domestically.

User currently offlineN670UW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1604 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6513 times:



Quoting Hondah35 (Reply 12):
but LAS and PHX are the fastest growing areas of the nation

And LAS is also one of the lowest-yielding markets in the nation.


User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4396 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6479 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Hondah35 (Reply 12):
......PIT is one thing, that is a stagnant O&D market, but LAS and PHX are the fastest growing areas of the nation, and being able to compete in those markets is part of the key to being able to compete domestically.

And the interesting thing is, WN also has more of the O&D market out of PHX than US does, even though US has more flights (Mainline + Express). IIRC 40% of the US passengers in PHX are connecting.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5602 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6467 times:

Two words:

Southwest and Allegiant.


Ok, maybe a few more. Two west coast hubs worked fine for a relatively regional airline like HP, but now that the combined US covers more, it's a bit redundant.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5902 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6422 times:
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Quoting Hondah35 (Reply 12):
PIT is one thing, that is a stagnant O&D market

Pittsburgh had been a very good hub for US, especially in the 1980's and 1990's. In fact, I would hazard to guess that PIT was US (then AL) was their largest hub, prior to their purchase of PI. Many of the west coast flights flew into PIT with their 727-200's.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 15):
Allegiant.

I wouldn't call LAS Allegiant's hub because of the fact that G4 does not offer connections through LAS. They just found a niche with smaller communities to maintain O&D traffic along with the vacation packages.

Some is bound to start LAS as a hub...either large or small. It happens every 10 years or so.


User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6217 times:



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 16):
Some is bound to start LAS as a hub...either large or small. It happens every 10 years or so.

Family Airlines? Big grin



There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2306 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6207 times:

Why was LAS originally chosen as a hub? It was so close to PHX anyway, no?

As to current reality, why keep 2 hubs so close to each other? Again, it wouldn't not seem logical. Surely it is impossible to have 2 large hubs so close, with respect to the cities concerned.

Would it make more sense for US to build up another city in the NW, like Seattle as a focus city? It would give trans con access and they already have a decent western presence.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineTN757Flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5755 times:



Quoting F9Animal (Reply 7):
US should keep their red eye banks out of LAS at least to keep those planes flying. I

These were the first flights US started cutting, long before any official announcement of a downsizing. Red-eyes from LAS are indeed popular, but apparently US no longer feels a need for them. I do agree that it will be just a matter of time that LAS will see just a handful of flights to major cities plus the hubs. They cannot compete with WN long term and they are going to bail on the city. It is a low yield market, but made for airlines like WN. Also Allegiant with it's package tours is going to continue to pull in pax from smaller markets, which they've been doing successfully for years.


User currently offlineVictorKilo From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5745 times:

According to the third quarter O&D figures published by the government, of the 121 markets with more than 75 O&D passengers per day, there are only five markets where US leads in market share.

Four of the five markets are home to either US-East hubs or focus cities (Boston, Philadelphia, Charlotte, and Pittsburgh).

The fifth is #120, Santa Barbara.

I don't see that there's any market share of size left for US to defend in LAS, so I would not be shocked if the LAS focus city is eliminated.

I also would not be shocked if, in a hypothetical Mesa bankruptcy, US canceled all CRJ flying out of LAS.

[Edited 2008-04-20 06:54:58]

User currently offlineTN757Flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5686 times:



Quoting VictorKilo (Reply 20):
According to the third quarter O&D figures published by the government, of the 121 markets with more than 75 O&D passengers per day, there are only five markets where US leads in market share.

Can you post a link? It would be an interesting read. Not doubting you but I can never seem to find a single site that gives these stats. Thanks.


User currently offlineVictorKilo From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5626 times:



Quoting TN757Flyer (Reply 21):
Can you post a link? It would be an interesting read. Not doubting you but I can never seem to find a single site that gives these stats. Thanks.

http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/X-5...le_files/consumerairfarereport.htm


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12470 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5151 times:



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 16):
Pittsburgh had been a very good hub for US, especially in the 1980's and 1990's.

Yep, that was before SouthWest came to the NorthEast  Smile

US had near-monopoly pricing power in the northeast US in the 1990s.

It caused great resentment at the time, and some of us still hold a grudge. Sad



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13043 posts, RR: 100
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 4972 times:
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Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 8):

That used to be a valid argument when oil was $60/barrel. Now, it's $115. It's probably cheaper in most cases to just let the plane sit overnight now. It's sad, but US is a business, and as such, must minimize the bleeding. LAS just happens to be one of the open wounds.

Even if oil drops back to $80 as some predict, the recession we're in is going to force a reduction in service. At today's oil prices, redeye flights that were profitable no longer are profitable. For the record, I'm the fan of redeyes. I sleep well on planes, even in Y! But with the quadrupling of fuel prices, flights that used to have a RASM greater than CASM no longer do and thus shouldn't be flown anymore. Assumptions on redeyes that were made when fuel was 10% to 15% of the flight cost no longer hold now that fuel is 30% of the flight cost.  cry 

Quoting N670UW (Reply 13):
And LAS is also one of the lowest-yielding markets in the nation.

 checkmark  Due to the multi-hub there, no one can demand a premium. Let's face it, most tourists want a bargain.

Quoting VictorKilo (Reply 20):
I also would not be shocked if, in a hypothetical Mesa bankruptcy, US canceled all CRJ flying out of LAS.

They need to cut CRJ flying nationally. What made sense at $50/bbl just doesn't at $115. Air travel is an elastic market and US seems to recognize which services must be cut.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 23):
Yep, that was before SouthWest came to the NorthEast Smile

US had near-monopoly pricing power in the northeast US in the 1990s.

There is no longer domestic monopoly pricing power. So US is adapting to correct to today's environment.

Lighsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
25 Wedgetail737 : During the early life of America West, it was a natural thing for them to open a hub at LAS. Yes...Southwest had a significant operation at LAS, but
26 TAN FLYR : Just in the for what is worth dept, assume a Mesa BK or pull down of most CRJ flying from LAS, would US add more FAT-PHX frequencies, or leave them a
27 Wedgetail737 : I still think the QX service to MRY would be a natural for them. But it has to beat others in terms of business (cost versus potential profit) and res
28 Nosedive : Wasn't the 742 flying service one of the major reasons why HP declared Ch 11 back in the 1990s?
29 Wedgetail737 : Yeah...that was part of it. Ed Buveais (can't remember the spelling) really mismanaged the airline and sent it into People Express mode.
30 Sean-SAN- : Sadly, LAS is an example where a extremely high load factor still won't cover the costs anymore. Rampers and CSA staff in LAS are paid quite low, and
31 Hondah35 : Nothing personal, but LAS seems to cover the costs for WN. Is there any market that will cover the legacies' costs anymore, or are all of the legacie
32 Lexy : You touch on a point I think gets overlooked on here wayyyyyy too often. The Legacies here in the USA just don't give a damn about the domestic marke
33 PlanesNTrains : Well, and the fact that we've seen how fickle the international market can be after 9-11/SARS/Iraq/competitive changes. These carriers that are placi
34 ThreeIfByAir : And the vacation packages are going to be a hard sell with the national economic mood so gloomy. Let's spend money to fly to a city to lose more mone
35 September11 : Bring back those America West red eyes flights! LAS-BOS LAS-MIA LAS-PHL LAS-MCO LAS-CMH LAS-BWI LAS-EWR And more.
36 Jetdeltamsy : Yep. Sure was. HP couldn't support the high operating costs of those 747's and it nearly took them out of business. There was no 747, HNL-NGO "heyday
37 Wedgetail737 : That's true...but the 747's were eye-candy for the spotters, definitely.
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