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DC-9 Questions And An Idea For NW's Birds  
User currently offlineLV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 1991 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6693 times:

Are the DC-9's 2 man or 3 man crews?

How is their fuel burn compared to a 727?

Does NW have and DC-9's with enough cycles left to make them worth converting to freighters?

Thanks,
LV

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2326 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6665 times:

The DC-9 has a two man crew and burns less fuel than a 727. The -50 series airframes have many more cycles left, however they probably won't be converted to freighters. But I think DHL still uses the DC-9, so who knows.


There's nothing quite like a tri-jet.
User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6482 times:



Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 1):
But I think DHL still uses the DC-9, so who knows.

Yeah they do. There is one parked at FNT almost daily.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineJohnClipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 835 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6472 times:



Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 2):
Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 1):
But I think DHL still uses the DC-9, so who knows.

Yeah they do. There is one parked at FNT almost daily.

It's not DHL, but ABX.


User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4302 posts, RR: 36
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6314 times:



Quoting LV (Thread starter):
with enough cycles left to make them worth converting to freighters

Due to its relatively narrow body, the DC-9 or MD-80 has never been a popular freighter. Certain containers which fit in the regular 6 abreast aircraft like 707, 727, 737, 757, DC-8 and A-320 family can't fit in a DC-9.
IF the DC-9 would have been a popular freighter, many more would have been converted in the 1990s when the other major operators like Alitalia, SAS, Delta, TWA etc. were withdrawing their DC-9s, now we are 10 years later, fuel is higher and the remaining airframes are older. Cargo conversion shops of 727s, DC-9s, 747 non 400s have switched to converting 757s, 737-300s, 747-400s etc instead.
NW will either be the last operator of their DC-9s apart from some small passenger operators in Africa or Venezuela who will take a few of the newer and recently overhauled frames.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6253 times:



Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 1):
But I think DHL still uses the DC-9, so who knows.

As JohnClipper said, those DC-9s are operated by ABX Air (formerly Airborne Express) on an ACMI basis for DHL. They will not be taking any more DC-9s and are in fact beginning a very slow phase-out of those aircraft themselves. No real timeline as to when they'll be gone, as the DC-8s were being phased out for nearly a decade before they finally left and there were a lot fewer of them. We'll be seeing them around for a long time, but no new ones.

Quoting JohnClipper (Reply 3):
It's not DHL, but ABX.




Good goes around!
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6126 times:



Quoting LV (Thread starter):

I just keep wondering why everyone want to redesign the wheel for Northwest and it's fleet of DC-9's.....Here's the deal...

Douglas made a FANTASTIC aircraft with the DC-9.....
Ask most any crew that flies the DC-9....they love them.....old school at its best...
They are fully PAID FOR and have been of years......!! No lease payments here.....
Almost everytime one takes off it's making the company money.....

I had the chance to talk with some Northwest guys a while back and they said the DC-9 is one of the more senior crewed planes in the fleet because the crews can bid lines and be home more often....and they love the old school flying.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineYWG747 From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 251 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6119 times:

DC9's are quite a bit smaller then a 727's... I dont see how well they could be used as a freighter...
maybe for shorter hops to smaller cities....


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6006 times:



Quoting LV (Thread starter):
Are the DC-9's 2 man or 3 man crews?

How is their fuel burn compared to a 727?

2 crew and always have unlike the 737-200. Fuel burn is actually not bad on the DC-9 but per seat for only 100 seats it isnt that great......it is a testimony to the DC-9 that a plane designed when oil was approximately $2-$3 per barrell was able to survive until oil hit $100. All of the Dc-9s contemporaries have long ago been retired. It was clearly the most efficent plane when it was being manufactured


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7521 posts, RR: 28
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5954 times:



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 6):
I had the chance to talk with some Northwest guys a while back and they said the DC-9 is one of the more senior crewed planes in the fleet because the crews can bid lines and be home more often....and they love the old school flying.

Correct, there are a ton of super-senior DC-9 pilots for NWA. I believe that the -9 is actually more senior than the A320 & 757 just because of the reasons you said. There are a lot of high-timers that love flying the -9, and they get to bid some very nice lines that allow them to be home very often. Many run other businesses on the side too.


User currently offlineSNCntry32 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1516 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5943 times:

I am still baffeled by the shear age of the planes. Safe, comfortable and great.


Long Live Memphis!
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5921 times:



Quoting YWG747 (Reply 7):
DC9's are quite a bit smaller then a 727's... I dont see how well they could be used as a freighter...
maybe for shorter hops to smaller cities....

If you don't believe us about DHL/ABX, peep this: http://flightaware.com/live/airport/...;order=actualarrivaltime;sort=DESC

Good ol' Wilmington, OH... proving Big Bird can indeed fly. (Think Sesame Street and the DHL colors... not the size of a DC9)


User currently offlineAtpcliff From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5771 times:

Hi!

We (USA Jet Airlines) has DC-9 freighters (and PAX aircraft), both -10 series and -30 series. THere are potos of them on this website, if U search.

The -40s are too underpowered to be good freighters. I've heard the -50s don't have strong enough floors to be freighters.

I do NOT like flying the DC-9s. They are old, pieces of crap. The APUs don't keep the plane hot or cold enough. The autopilots just don't work hardly at all. We usually hand fly the approaches, because the autopilots can't.

If you like driving a covered wagon, you would probably like a DC-9. I prefer a modern vehicle with an FMS and proper enrivonmental systems.

cliff
YIP



TRY. It's all you have control over, and it's what God wants.
User currently offlineKingAir200 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1611 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5523 times:



Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 9):

Good points. As you said, there are quite a few senior guys hanging on atop the DC-9. Just about the top 10 guys at every base are ex-Republic who never chose to get off the airplane. Being that senior, you pretty much get whatever you ask for. However, the 757 and A320, on a whole, are senior to the DC-9. That being said, there are a lot of 9 guys who could hold other airplanes but simply choose not to.

Quoting Atpcliff (Reply 12):

Waaa, waaaa, waaaa!  Wink



Hey Swifty
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5491 times:



Quoting Atpcliff (Reply 12):
I prefer a modern vehicle with an FMS and proper enrivonmental systems.

No offense but you're probably at the wrong employer then.

Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 13):
However, the 757 and A320, on a whole, are senior to the DC-9. That being said, there are a lot of 9 guys who could hold other airplanes but simply choose not to.

Is the 9 somewhat of the "entry" point for any newbies @ NWA? It would make sense after all to put the guys most recently removed from the C152 and the PA-34 onto the plane most like it avionics wise: the DC9.


User currently offlineKingAir200 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1611 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5418 times:



Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 14):
Is the 9 somewhat of the "entry" point for any newbies @ NWA? It would make sense after all to put the guys most recently removed from the C152 and the PA-34 onto the plane most like it avionics wise: the DC9.

It was in the last hiring band, although some guys got stuck wrenching on the 742 in ANC. It ended up being a difficult transition for some guys, going from glass CRJs and E145s into 35-40 year old airplanes with steam gauges.



Hey Swifty
User currently offlineSkyHigh777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5245 times:

So are the NW DC-9's going to be painted into Delta colors??

That would be interesting to see...



Prepare for take-off.
User currently offlineLV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 1991 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5070 times:



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 6):
I just keep wondering why everyone want to redesign the wheel for Northwest and it's fleet of DC-9's

I love the fact the NW still flies the 9's. I'm not trying to say they should get rid of them. I just know with the merger, there is a good chance the new management will get rid of them. Especially with fuel becoming a bigger and bigger consideration every week. So I am trying to figure out a second life for them

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 1):
But I think DHL still uses the DC-9, so who knows.

You read my mind. DHL was the primary thought behind starting this thread. I know ABX already flies several 9's into smaller markets for DHL. I also see there is 727 flying out of the ILN hub as well. My thought was if the 9 has lower fuel burn and one less crew member then the 727, and you probably aren't maxing out the 727's space anyway (since DHL is the smallest of the three major box haulers) wouldn't it be smart to go with the 9's to replace the 727s at ILN.... plus I read that DHL wants to expand the RIV hub... and for west coast boxes it would create greater efficiency. After all, right now if I am sending something Denver to Seattle DHL it has to go DEN-ILN-SEA... which seems really inefficient... but by expanding the RIV hub you could start going DEN-RIV-SEA.... which makes a lot more sense if DHL continues to expand and take market share in the United States.


User currently offlineRbgso From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 587 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4973 times:



Quoting Atpcliff (Reply 12):
We usually hand fly the approaches, because the autopilots can't.

Isn't that what flying is all about?

I'll take a 9 pilot who does actual flying on a daily basis over someone who turns it over to the computer regularly.


User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4910 times:



Quoting Atpcliff (Reply 12):
The -40s are too underpowered to be good freighters.

Not even close to true. The majority of the DC-9s that ABX has left are in fact -40s and they are spectacular freighters. In fact, the company prefers the -40 over the -30 and has parked A LOT of -30s recently because the 40 doesn't burn significantly more fuel, but can carry significantly more freight.

Quoting LV (Reply 17):
I know ABX already flies several 9's into smaller markets for DHL.

More than several. ABX has a fleet of about 50 DC-9s still in service

Quoting LV (Reply 17):
I also see there is 727 flying out of the ILN hub as well. My thought was if the 9 has lower fuel burn and one less crew member then the 727, and you probably aren't maxing out the 727's space anyway

First off, the 727s are operated by Astar under a totally separate contract from the DC-9s which are operated by ABX. It wouldn't be that easy to eliminate the 727 at this point even if they wanted to because of contractual issues. Secondly, the 727 and DC-9 serve vastly different markets for DHL. A lot of the routes that currently see 727s previously saw ABX 767s or DC-8s which have since been reitred (DC-8s) or moved to more profitable/appropriate routes. Such routes include SLC (I believe that is still a 727). Those routes are filling the 727s to capacity. Plus the 727 has significantly more range than the DC-9. In summary, the DC-9 and 727 both fill very specific missions for the DHL USA operation right now. Both will be phased out long-term, but neither one can be done without in the short term. However, they won't be buying more of either one in the short term, either. Basically that flying is well covered by those planes, and DHL isn't seeing significant (if any) growth in the U.S. market.



Good goes around!
User currently offlineKingAirMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4734 times:



Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 15):
It was in the last hiring band, although some guys got stuck wrenching on the 742 in ANC. It ended up being a difficult transition for some guys, going from glass CRJs and E145s into 35-40 year old airplanes with steam gauges.

Do many pilots at majors desire to be on a 747 ? Although NWA cargo is flying the 742 ( and cargo ) I would think that it may be a slight bridge to be able to bid for an FO seat on a 744 passenger ? What about united ? is the 747 a mostly senior airplane? I'm curious as if NWA pilots ( if seniors like the -9 ) have a lot of competition or waiting for a spot on the 744


User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24803 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4498 times:



Quoting SkyHigh777 (Reply 16):
So are the NW DC-9's going to be painted into Delta colors??

That would be interesting to see...

And ironic, considering that DL was the first DC-9 operator almost 43 years ago. The one below was the first DC-9 delivered on September 18, 1965, less than 7 months after the DC-9's first flight. First service December 9, 1965, Atlanta-Memphis-Kansas City.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Burger Collection



User currently offlineTb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1576 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4370 times:



Quoting Atpcliff (Reply 12):

cliff
YIP

Boy, PilotYIP must be blowing smoke up everyone's @ss, I thought JUS had the best fleet of everything out there according to him?



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineCV880 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1124 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4289 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 21):
And ironic, considering that DL was the first DC-9 operator almost 43 years ago. The one below was the first DC-9 delivered on September 18, 1965, less than 7 months after the DC-9's first flight. First service December 9, 1965, Atlanta-Memphis-Kansas City.

Can You believe that little POS had 25F seats( IIRC)? I don't miss those or the 30's, but can see the usefulness of the 50's and often wonder why they didn't last at HA.


User currently offlineKingAir200 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1611 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4244 times:



Quoting KingAirMan (Reply 20):
Do many pilots at majors desire to be on a 747 ? Although NWA cargo is flying the 742 ( and cargo ) I would think that it may be a slight bridge to be able to bid for an FO seat on a 744 passenger ?

Depends on the pilot. Some guys really want to retire on the 744, others just want to fly something. 744 FO at NWA is fairly senior. The new hires that ended up on a 747 were hired into the FE seat on the 742 in ANC.



Hey Swifty
25 KingAirMan : ahh, forgot about the FE seat.. Interesting though, I'd imagine it would take years to build up enough seniority, by then NW will probably have no 74
26 Nwarooster : Northwest's DC-9s are the first aircraft that will be parked after the merger is approved. Northwest has planned to park about 25 DC-9s this Fall. The
27 Sparky35805 : Does NW still own an airworthy DC9-10?There is room for one under the wing of the 767 in the museum at ATL. Sparky HSV
28 Nwarooster : There are several at MZJ, Marana, in storage. I do not know their airworthiness for a ferry flight.
29 Planefxr : Don't give up hope just yet. The -40's and -50's will be around for awhile. They fit a niche in the fleet that Delta as been missing for years. Well
30 PSU.DTW.SCE : Generally, the more senior pilots will desire for the largest aircraft. This is because bigger aircraft pay more. However, some pilots develop a part
31 LV : Okay, this brings up my next question, what is DHL's long term fleet plan?
32 Floridaflyboy : Well, it is still ambiguous right now. At this point, there is no planned replacement for the DC-9 or 727. Those fleets are both going to remain as-i
33 FlyguyPBI : Wow - I truly never thought I would see that again. Hey at this rate, maybe I'll get to hold a line on an 880.......???
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