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777 Pirep 4/19: Mtn Wave "Worst He's Ever Seen"  
User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2502 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 16420 times:

Yeah, yeah, I know that most of you will probably dismiss this under the pretext of "yeah, that happens all the time" but, having just deplaned from UA580 (ORD-BWI) and endured some ugly chop in a 733, I felt compelled to get on and see if anyone else had any bad rides today. You know the weather sucks when you read PIREPS like this:

SLC UUA /OV SLC 360030/TM 1720/FL370/TP B777/TB MOD-SEV MTN WAVE +-50KT/RM THE WORST HES EVER SEEN/ZLC

ELY UUA /OV ELY 135030/TM 1526/FL380/TP A320/TB SEV MTN WAVE/RM LOSS OF 1000 FT/ZLC



777fan


DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5848 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 16024 times:

That's almost enough to make me wish I could read PIREPs.

Almost.

But not quite.


User currently offlineMcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1466 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 15898 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 1):
SLC UUA /OV SLC 360030/TM 1720/FL370/TP B777/TB MOD-SEV MTN WAVE -50KT/RM THE WORST HES EVER SEEN/ZLC

ELY UUA /OV ELY 135030/TM 1526/FL380/TP A320/TB SEV MTN WAVE/RM LOSS OF 1000 FT/ZLC



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 1):
That's almost enough to make me wish I could read PIREPs.

Almost.

The first one is Urgent report/ Over SLC 360 degree radial at 30nm/ Time 1720Zulu/ Flight Level 370/ Moderate Turbulence, Severe Mountain Wave, Airspeed change was Plus and Minus 50kt/ self explanatory

The last one indicates a loss of 1000 feet in altitude. Not fun!

[Edited 2008-04-20 15:54:10]

User currently offlineFighterPilot From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1401 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 15856 times:

Thats actually kinda funny.

Cal

[Edited 2008-04-20 15:51:55]


*Insert Sound Of GE90 Spooling Up Here*
User currently offlineTravellin'man From United States of America, joined May 2001, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 15338 times:

Once in flying from Frankfurt to Cologne, as we were banking over the city, still high up, but not far from final approach, we hit some kind of air pocket and fell I don't know how much. My stomach hit my throat as everyone screamed. Above the seats and the tops of everyone's heads you could see this sea of ice cubes and contents of peoples' beverages that were displaced. Not pretty, although now it seems funny!


It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
User currently offlineN353SK From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 15127 times:



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 1):
That's almost enough to make me wish I could read PIREPs.

I'm pretty bored, I can help!

Quoting 777fan (Thread starter):
SLC UUA

Salt lake city, Urgent PIREP (UUA means urgent, UA means normal)

Quoting 777fan (Thread starter):
OV SLC 360030

North (as in 360) 30 miles of SLC

Quoting 777fan (Thread starter):
TM 1720

Time 1720 GMT

Quoting 777fan (Thread starter):
FL370

Altitude Flight Level 370 (about 37,000 feet)

Quoting 777fan (Thread starter):
TP B777

Type: Boeing 777

Quoting 777fan (Thread starter):
TB MOD-SEV MTN WAVE +-50KT

Turbulence, Moderate to Severe Mountain Wave with airspeed changes of 50 knots

Quoting 777fan (Thread starter):
/RM THE WORST HES EVER SEEN

Remarks, the worst he's ever seen.


User currently offlineNorcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1447 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 14830 times:

Funny we just flew over Utah on a 757 ORD-SMF. Moderate chop for the most part at FL360, captain had channel 9 off.

Quoting N353SK (Reply 5):
Remarks, the worst he's ever seen.

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 



If you're going through hell, keep going
User currently offlineMilan320 From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 869 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 14759 times:



Quoting Travellin'man (Reply 4):
Above the seats and the tops of everyone's heads you could see this sea of ice cubes and contents of peoples' beverages that were displaced. Not pretty, although now it seems funny!

Now if the FAs collected those before starting descent or finals, then at least only the stomachs would be in your throats.
/Milan320



I accept bribes ... :-)
User currently offlineThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1653 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 13411 times:

Please, folks, no more gibberish about "air pockets." There is no such thing.

The term was invented in Hollywood in the late 1920s and went into widespread use in just about every airplane movie made. The term implied that there were holes in the sky, through which an airplane could fall, that smacked you right into the ground. Scary stuff and the ignorant public ate it up.

It is a bit like drawing sea serpents who crush ships on 11th century maps.


User currently offline797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1895 posts, RR: 27
Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 10196 times:

Hmmm 1000 ft loss could be FUN, but considering the Mountain Wave, then... uhhh, WTF!


Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently offlineBoston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9412 times:

UA 1427 hit severe turbulence injuring two. Returned to DEN.

DEN UA /OV ALS030060/TM 0625/FL370/TP A320/TB SEVERE TURB/ SEVERE MTN WAVE/RM ± 1800 FPM



"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
User currently offlinePyroGX41487 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 280 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks ago) and read 7258 times:

Can someone describe just what a mountain wave is? Thanks!

Pyro


User currently onlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5983 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks ago) and read 7159 times:



Quoting PyroGX41487 (Reply 11):
Can someone describe just what a mountain wave is? Thanks!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_waves



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineA320ajm From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6422 times:



Quoting Travellin'man (Reply 4):
air pocket

Without being pedantic, there is no such thing as an air pocket.

Regards
A320ajm



If the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'
User currently offlineRP TPA From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5891 times:



Quoting 777fan (Thread starter):
THE WORST HES EVER SEEN

I guess this pilot didn't fly on AC190 YYJ-YYZ last January. That was the plane that encountered severe turbulence over the NW USA (near Kallispell, I believe), literally turned sideways, and had to divert to YYC as several people were hospitalized with injuries. (all were released in a day of so).


User currently offlineHB88 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 816 posts, RR: 31
Reply 15, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5823 times:

hmmmm...

I'm just thinking of listening to a vario pegged on 6 up and silky smooth lift  Smile

Nothing like soaring the leading edge of a wave bar.


User currently offlineAcey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1535 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5286 times:

My dad was flying from PDX to DEN and then DEN to MLI last week and he said that the last portion of his trip into DEN was pretty bad. I'm not 100% sure, but I think it was a 733, but either way he said he almost lost his lunch, and in fact a few people did. Is this time of year just more rough than other times, or was there some sort of frontal activity going on in the area?

User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4989 times:

I think this is the time of the year when they get severe turbulence on the front range. UA 732 crashed in COS around this time in 1991.

User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6924 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4754 times:



Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 8):
It is a bit like drawing sea serpents who crush ships on 11th century maps.

How do you know that they didn't; for that matter, how do you know that they don't still? Many, many ships have disappeared without explanations....
 Big grin  Big grin



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineRwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2353 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4597 times:
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Quoting HB88 (Reply 15):
I'm just thinking of listening to a vario pegged on 6 up and silky smooth lift

Nothing like soaring the leading edge of a wave bar.

OK, I feel better now - apparently I wasn't the only one who saw the pirep and thought "hmmm - good soaring day!"  Big grin

Although to be fair, a little further uphill (where it starts "breaking" over the tops) and a mountain wave can be rough as heck.


User currently offlineFighterPilot From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1401 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4402 times:

CYEG 220016
EG
UUA /OV CYNL /TM 0016 /FL035 /TP BE99 /RM
ACFT ENRTE CYNL - CZWL REPORTS LGT FZDZ "PRETTY MUCH ALL THE WAY"
AT A035 AND DWN TO A025.

Cal  airplane 



*Insert Sound Of GE90 Spooling Up Here*
User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2502 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4307 times:



Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 6):
Funny we just flew over Utah on a 757 ORD-SMF. Moderate chop for the most part at FL360, captain had channel 9 off.

I flew UA580 (ORD-BWI) yesterday; the captain turned channel nine off just as we were turning onto the active for depature. Don't know the reason (some crews just don't like to be overheard, others do it to prevent pax from getting alarmed when the weather is rough) but the flight was quite bumpy.

Quoting PyroGX41487 (Reply 11):
Can someone describe just what a mountain wave is? Thanks!

Basically: when the prevailing winds run over the top of a mountain range or ridge, a "wake" or "wave" is created on the other side. Think of a boat wake; it starts out tight at the point of origin but the waves spread out and become longer as it gets farther away from the centerpoint. Mountain wave(s) can also get "stuck" just on the other side and at about the same altitude as the tallest point from which they're created. This can result in a horizontal rotor which is akin to a tornado on its side. It is believe that this may have led to the demise of the UA 732 (see below) in reference.

Quoting RP TPA (Reply 14):
I guess this pilot didn't fly on AC190 YYJ-YYZ last January. That was the plane that encountered severe turbulence over the NW USA (near Kallispell, I believe), literally turned sideways, and had to divert to YYC as several people were hospitalized with injuries. (all were released in a day of so).

IIRC, that may have been triggered by an autopilot malfunction. Did anyone ever get to the bottom of that? Regardless, the incident was quite severe indeed.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 17):
I think this is the time of the year when they get severe turbulence on the front range. UA 732 crashed in COS around this time in 1991.

Having flown over, around, in and out of DEN at all times of the year, it can happen at just about anytime. I always take caution to buckle up extra tight over the Rockies.


777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineGeotrash From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 326 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4130 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 17):
I think this is the time of the year when they get severe turbulence on the front range.

Stong mountain wave activity is common in this area throughout the winter months. The jetstream is often found over the central Rockies from October thru April and with mostly stable air masses in place, cap clouds, lenticulars and rotors happen perhaps weekly.

In the spring, the fronts tend to be stronger with sharper contrasts between the cool and warm air masses, which leads to frequent chinook winds. The chinooks create rotors closer to the ground and are more troublesome for aircraft on approach close to the lee side of the Front Range, such as at BJC, LMO, COS and BDU.

Here are a few shots of the winter winds from my home. The final shot is of lenticulars over the Sierra Nevada from a 737 on the way to SJC last week.

Big version: Width: 640 Height: 480 File size: 36kb


Big version: Width: 800 Height: 600 File size: 55kb


Big version: Width: 800 Height: 600 File size: 61kb


Big version: Width: 800 Height: 600 File size: 38kb


User currently offlineSpacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3629 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3836 times:



Quoting Geotrash (Reply 22):
Here are a few shots of the winter winds from my home.

I want your view!



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12592 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (6 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3789 times:



Quoting HB88 (Reply 15):
I'm just thinking of listening to a vario pegged on 6 up and silky smooth lift Smile

Nothing like soaring the leading edge of a wave bar.

There's also nothing like towing through the rotor to get to the silky smooth lift!

Or connecting with the secondary via ridge lift, then plunging forward to try to hit the primary...

But once one is through the nasty stuff, there's absolutely nothing like being in your man made cocoon, watching the altimeter winding like a crazy clock and watching the ground receding away underneath you. It's a life-changing experience, IMHO.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
25 Barney Captain : I guess I'm a little confused - I'm failing to see anything funny about the reports.
26 HB88 : It is indeed. The first time I soared in wave I found the quiet and smoothness quite unnerving - we hadn't been hit much by rotor before getting into
27 FighterPilot : The fact that direct quotes aren't the norm for PIREPS. Everything is normally short form. Cal
28 Viscount724 : As far as I know, there has been no determination of the cause of the AC incident. There were some indications that it could well have been caused by
29 Barney Captain : Ah...fair enough, not so much the content, as it was the manner in which its relayed. I guess I was reliving a little first hand experience similar t
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