777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2545 posts, RR: 2 Posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 17173 times:
Yeah, yeah, I know that most of you will probably dismiss this under the pretext of "yeah, that happens all the time" but, having just deplaned from UA580 (ORD-BWI) and endured some ugly chop in a 733, I felt compelled to get on and see if anyone else had any bad rides today. You know the weather sucks when you read PIREPS like this:
ELY UUA /OV ELY 135030/TM 1526/FL380/TP A320/TB SEV MTN WAVE/RM LOSS OF 1000 FT/ZLC
Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 1): That's almost enough to make me wish I could read PIREPs.
The first one is Urgent report/ Over SLC 360 degree radial at 30nm/ Time 1720Zulu/ Flight Level 370/ Moderate Turbulence, Severe Mountain Wave, Airspeed change was Plus and Minus 50kt/ self explanatory
The last one indicates a loss of 1000 feet in altitude. Not fun!
Travellin'man From United States of America, joined May 2001, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 16091 times:
Once in flying from Frankfurt to Cologne, as we were banking over the city, still high up, but not far from final approach, we hit some kind of air pocket and fell I don't know how much. My stomach hit my throat as everyone screamed. Above the seats and the tops of everyone's heads you could see this sea of ice cubes and contents of peoples' beverages that were displaced. Not pretty, although now it seems funny!
It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
Milan320 From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 873 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 15512 times:
Quoting Travellin'man (Reply 4): Above the seats and the tops of everyone's heads you could see this sea of ice cubes and contents of peoples' beverages that were displaced. Not pretty, although now it seems funny!
Now if the FAs collected those before starting descent or finals, then at least only the stomachs would be in your throats.
ThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1712 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 14164 times:
Please, folks, no more gibberish about "air pockets." There is no such thing.
The term was invented in Hollywood in the late 1920s and went into widespread use in just about every airplane movie made. The term implied that there were holes in the sky, through which an airplane could fall, that smacked you right into the ground. Scary stuff and the ignorant public ate it up.
It is a bit like drawing sea serpents who crush ships on 11th century maps.
I guess this pilot didn't fly on AC190 YYJ-YYZ last January. That was the plane that encountered severe turbulence over the NW USA (near Kallispell, I believe), literally turned sideways, and had to divert to YYC as several people were hospitalized with injuries. (all were released in a day of so).
Acey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1586 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6039 times:
My dad was flying from PDX to DEN and then DEN to MLI last week and he said that the last portion of his trip into DEN was pretty bad. I'm not 100% sure, but I think it was a 733, but either way he said he almost lost his lunch, and in fact a few people did. Is this time of year just more rough than other times, or was there some sort of frontal activity going on in the area?
777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2545 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5060 times:
Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 6): Funny we just flew over Utah on a 757 ORD-SMF. Moderate chop for the most part at FL360, captain had channel 9 off.
I flew UA580 (ORD-BWI) yesterday; the captain turned channel nine off just as we were turning onto the active for depature. Don't know the reason (some crews just don't like to be overheard, others do it to prevent pax from getting alarmed when the weather is rough) but the flight was quite bumpy.
Basically: when the prevailing winds run over the top of a mountain range or ridge, a "wake" or "wave" is created on the other side. Think of a boat wake; it starts out tight at the point of origin but the waves spread out and become longer as it gets farther away from the centerpoint. Mountain wave(s) can also get "stuck" just on the other side and at about the same altitude as the tallest point from which they're created. This can result in a horizontal rotor which is akin to a tornado on its side. It is believe that this may have led to the demise of the UA 732 (see below) in reference.
Quoting RP TPA (Reply 14): I guess this pilot didn't fly on AC190 YYJ-YYZ last January. That was the plane that encountered severe turbulence over the NW USA (near Kallispell, I believe), literally turned sideways, and had to divert to YYC as several people were hospitalized with injuries. (all were released in a day of so).
IIRC, that may have been triggered by an autopilot malfunction. Did anyone ever get to the bottom of that? Regardless, the incident was quite severe indeed.
Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 17): I think this is the time of the year when they get severe turbulence on the front range. UA 732 crashed in COS around this time in 1991.
Having flown over, around, in and out of DEN at all times of the year, it can happen at just about anytime. I always take caution to buckle up extra tight over the Rockies.
Geotrash From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 326 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4883 times:
Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 17): I think this is the time of the year when they get severe turbulence on the front range.
Stong mountain wave activity is common in this area throughout the winter months. The jetstream is often found over the central Rockies from October thru April and with mostly stable air masses in place, cap clouds, lenticulars and rotors happen perhaps weekly.
In the spring, the fronts tend to be stronger with sharper contrasts between the cool and warm air masses, which leads to frequent chinook winds. The chinooks create rotors closer to the ground and are more troublesome for aircraft on approach close to the lee side of the Front Range, such as at BJC, LMO, COS and BDU.
Here are a few shots of the winter winds from my home. The final shot is of lenticulars over the Sierra Nevada from a 737 on the way to SJC last week.
Revelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 14386 posts, RR: 26
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4542 times:
Quoting HB88 (Reply 15): I'm just thinking of listening to a vario pegged on 6 up and silky smooth lift Smile
Nothing like soaring the leading edge of a wave bar.
There's also nothing like towing through the rotor to get to the silky smooth lift!
Or connecting with the secondary via ridge lift, then plunging forward to try to hit the primary...
But once one is through the nasty stuff, there's absolutely nothing like being in your man made cocoon, watching the altimeter winding like a crazy clock and watching the ground receding away underneath you. It's a life-changing experience, IMHO.
Inspiration, move me brightly!
25 Barney Captain
: I guess I'm a little confused - I'm failing to see anything funny about the reports.
: It is indeed. The first time I soared in wave I found the quiet and smoothness quite unnerving - we hadn't been hit much by rotor before getting into
: The fact that direct quotes aren't the norm for PIREPS. Everything is normally short form. Cal
: As far as I know, there has been no determination of the cause of the AC incident. There were some indications that it could well have been caused by
29 Barney Captain
: Ah...fair enough, not so much the content, as it was the manner in which its relayed. I guess I was reliving a little first hand experience similar t