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FAA To Clip Porter Wings  
User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2676 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks ago) and read 7527 times:
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It looks like Porter's Newark route will be restricted. Funny, you'd think the FAA would see turboprop operations as part of the solution, not part of the problem.

Porter fights FAA plans to cut Newark flights

TORONTO -- Porter Airlines Inc. has filed a complaint to the Federal Aviation Administration, urging the U.S. regulator to drop plans to restrict Porter's flight schedule between Toronto and Newark Liberty International Airport in New Jersey.

http://www.reportonbusiness.com/serv...2.wrporter22/BNStory/Business/home


Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLAxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24710 posts, RR: 46
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks ago) and read 7490 times:

Porter simply does not hold the slots required at EWR. Similar to the crying Virgin America had the other week regarding inability to secure slots per its wishes at EWR also.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22680 posts, RR: 20
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7137 times:



Quoting LAxintl (Reply 1):
Porter simply does not hold the slots required at EWR. Similar to the crying Virgin America had the other week regarding inability to secure slots per its wishes at EWR also.

I'm a bit surprised the FAA hasn't made some concession for new entrants at EWR as they did at ORD.

Still, I don't buy Porter's argument that they cannot effectively compete with only 5 daily flights instead of 7.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17278 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7110 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 2):
Still, I don't buy Porter's argument that they cannot effectively compete with only 5 daily flights instead of 7.

Can anyone fly into their home airport?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 31
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7110 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):
Can anyone fly into their home airport?

Im not entirely sure. But the runways are small. As well as the ramp. And I beleive limited to prop operations. But I dont think that would stop CO from using Q200's or Jazz, from doing the same.



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineVC10DC10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1035 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7074 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 2):
I don't buy Porter's argument that they cannot effectively compete with only 5 daily flights instead of 7.

I don't agree... Porter is a very small company (they only have 6 Q400s) and doubtless needs all the revenue it can get.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22680 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7007 times:



Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 5):
Porter is a very small company (they only have 6 Q400s) and doubtless needs all the revenue it can get.

If they're limited by the size of their fleet, there's at least an argument for hitting more destinations with somewhat fewer frequencies. What is their schedule ex-YTZ now?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4917 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6787 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 2):
Still, I don't buy Porter's argument that they cannot effectively compete with only 5 daily flights instead of 7.

What times are the remaining flights. If Porter have lost their peak time slots I could understand this arguement



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8653 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6719 times:

Looks like this has affected AC also. Why all the Canadian airlines?

Hunter



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22680 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6691 times:



Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 8):
Looks like this has affected AC also. Why all the Canadian airlines?

It's affecting all airlines who operate at congested times.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6538 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):
Can anyone fly into their home airport?

Yes, YTZ is open to anyone (even Jazz, though they like to act otherwise), but can only handle turboprops.

US Airways Express / CommutAir flew there in 1998 on a HPN-SYR-YTZ routing.

More recently (within the last year), US has applied for and been granted slots to fly to YTZ. 3x daily roundtrip PHL-YTZ service operated by US Airways Express / Piedmont will begin as soon as Porter announces its own PHL service, whenever that may be.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
It's affecting all airlines who operate at congested times.

But it really shouldn't affect Porter, who, as the article states, can operate off of the shorter runways with their Q400s, so they don't add to congestion nearly as much.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22680 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6349 times:



Quoting A330323X (Reply 10):
But it really shouldn't affect Porter, who, as the article states, can operate off of the shorter runways with their Q400s, so they don't add to congestion nearly as much.

If you start making exceptions for turboprops, though, it becomes difficult to figure out what to do with CO, who operates a mix of all kinds of aircraft.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6171 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 11):
If you start making exceptions for turboprops, though, it becomes difficult to figure out what to do with CO, who operates a mix of all kinds of aircraft.

It seems easy enough to me--just exempt all of CO's turboprops too.  Smile

(I think the runway in question is too short for RJs to use regularly, but someone could correct me on that.)



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22680 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6054 times:



Quoting A330323X (Reply 12):
It seems easy enough to me--just exempt all of CO's turboprops too.

Then CO goes to all-jet the day before slots kick in and dumps 200 turboprop flights on top of that schedule the day after slots start...seems like a recipe for disaster.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineRampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3103 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2972 times:



Quoting A330323X (Reply 12):
(I think the runway in question is too short for RJs to use regularly, but someone could correct me on that.)

The "short" runway 11/29 at EWR is 6900 ft, and does see occasional flights with bigger jets when the winds or traffic allow. I've seen 757 land there.

-Rampart


User currently offlineNWADC9 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4896 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2791 times:

What if they didn't serve EWR but instead maybe TEB? After all, YTZ is mainly GA...

Just thinking outside the box here!



Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
User currently offlineNorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 37
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2586 times:
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Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 15):
What if they didn't serve EWR but instead maybe TEB? After all, YTZ is mainly GA...

I don't believe TEB has any INS facilities for commercial flights...



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User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2512 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 13):
Then CO goes to all-jet the day before slots kick in and dumps 200 turboprop flights on top of that schedule the day after slots start...seems like a recipe for disaster.

Both DCA and LGA are perfectly able dealing with the difference between an air carrier slot and a commuter slot, and how those slots are defined at each respective airport. I have to imagine EWR could do the same if it wanted to. It seems, though, that they're just taking the easy way out.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineATCT From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2259 posts, RR: 39
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2464 times:



Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 16):
I don't believe TEB has any INS facilities for commercial flights...

TEB is a fully equipped with INS but lacks in TSA and infastructure to hold scheduled pt 121 flights. I also believe there is some sort of weight restriciton of no aircraft with a MGTOW of over 100,000lbs. (I believe, not exactly sure, that the Q400 is in the 110,000lbs range regarding MGTOW).

ATCT



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User currently offlineAAmd11 From UK - Wales, joined Nov 2001, 1057 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2252 times:



Quoting ATCT (Reply 18):
I believe, not exactly sure, that the Q400 is in the 110,000lbs range regarding MGTOW.

As I understand it, Porter operate their Q400s in the mid 60,000lb range for MTOW. I'd assume that's pretty typical, considering Porter operates quite a long Q400 flight in YOW-YHZ (592 miles) with up to 70 passengers.

The Q400s themselves weigh in at around 40,000lbs or so empty... I'm not convinced they have a payload capability of 60,000+.  Wink


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22680 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2105 times:



Quoting A330323X (Reply 17):
Both DCA and LGA are perfectly able dealing with the difference between an air carrier slot and a commuter slot, and how those slots are defined at each respective airport.

Agreed, though this (EWR) would be the first transition to slots made after the regional jet revolution. It's telling, IMO, that ORD's programme does not differentiate at all based on aircraft size.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineVC10DC10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1035 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1853 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 6):
If they're limited by the size of their fleet, there's at least an argument for hitting more destinations with somewhat fewer frequencies.

Maybe, but then they'll have higher station costs.


User currently offlineBravo1Six From Canada, joined Dec 2007, 397 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1839 times:



Quoting ATCT (Reply 18):
TEB is a fully equipped with INS but lacks in TSA and infastructure to hold scheduled pt 121 flights. I also believe there is some sort of weight restriciton of no aircraft with a MGTOW of over 100,000lbs. (I believe, not exactly sure, that the Q400 is in the 110,000lbs range regarding MGTOW).

MTOW of a Q400 is 64,500lbs.


User currently offlineRampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3103 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1798 times:



Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 15):
What if they didn't serve EWR but instead maybe TEB? After all, YTZ is mainly GA...

Unlike YTZ, TEB doesn't have any history of scheduled service (I could be wrong in a historical sense, but probably not in the last 30 years). PANYNJ, who own TEB, have no intention of using TEB for scheduled service, or they would have by now, and the neighbors would throw huge roadblocks (opening to one scheduled operator could lead to more, and more noise, you know the arguments, misguided as they can be). TEB also has a very awkward position for incoming and outgoing traffic with respect to EWR and LGA. Not that they couldn't handle a few extra flights a day, but I imagine the regulations are different for airlines than they are for private jets.

EWR or LGA are the best bets for Porter, and EWR is preferable for the access to mass transit (not to mention connections).

Quoting ATCT (Reply 18):
TEB is a fully equipped with INS but lacks in TSA and infastructure to hold scheduled pt 121 flights. I also believe there is some sort of weight restriciton of no aircraft with a MGTOW of over 100,000lbs. (I believe, not exactly sure, that the Q400 is in the 110,000lbs range regarding MGTOW).

I believe TEB can handle and has seen BBJ and DC-9 types, but I don't see anything in the photo database.

-Rampart


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