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Iberia Will Operate Long Haul Flights From BCN  
User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 58
Posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10866 times:

According to the first reports, Fernando Conte, President of Iberia, has announced that IB will operate between 6 and 10 intercontinental routes from BCN along with their OW partners.

Mr. Conte visited BCN to witness the beginning of the construction works for what will be a big Iberia maintenance hangar at El Prat airport.

He said that some of the routes will be operated directly by Iberia, while some others will be flown by some of their Oneworld partners.

While American Airlines has already announced their new JFK-BCN flights, it has also been mentioned that there are plans for a new nonstop SCL-BCN-SCL route operated by LAN, and that there are negotiations with JAL in order to start BCN-NRT flights in codeshare with IB.

If this finally comes true, IB would operate the following routes with their own metal:

BCN-MIA-BCN
BCN-GRU-BCN
BCN-MEX-BCN
BCN-EZE-BCN

This is not due to occur in the "short term", however.

First they want to wait until the new "Terminal Sud" is fully operative and the airlines have been operating there for quite some time. The new terminal will be opened in 2009 and the new routes could start in 2011, excepting the AA flights to JFK which will start this year.

Press release in Spanish:

"Iberia se compromete a realizar vuelos intercontinentales desde el aeropuerto de El Prat para disipar las dudas sobre que su apuesta por Barcelona es firme. Su presidente señaló que "Iberia y sus asociadas realizaran entre seis y 10 vuelos intercontinentales desde El Prat". La compañía cuenta entre esos vuelos el que realizará American Airlines de Barcelona a Nueva York en código compartido con Iberia. También suma una ruta a Santiago de Chile desde la capital catalana que operará Lan y negocia con la japonesa Japan Airlines (Jal) un vuelo con Tokio. Las negociaciones se encuentran en fase preliminar.

Iberia realizará directamente cuatro vuelos al otro lado del Atlántico: una tercera ruta a Miami, que se añadirá a las dos frecuencias diarias desde Madrid en código compartido con American Airlines; y volará a Sao Paulo, México DC y Buenos Aires con una tercera frecuencia diaria en cada caso, que se agregarán a las dos que ya salen desde Madrid.

Los planes de Iberia, sin embargo, no son inmediatos. La compañía esperará a que la T-Sur se consolide para poner en marcha las nuevas rutas, lo que podría ocurrir en el 2011, mientras que la nueva terminal entrará en funcionamiento en el 2009. Para la Generalitat, los planes de Iberia no son muy satisfactorios, ya que desaprovechan el potencial de las nuevas instalaciones.
Para Iberia, la prioridad es la rentabilidad, destacan fuentes de la compañía. Según Conte, las líneas domésticas generan entre 200 y 250 millones de pérdidas anuales.

Conte calificó de "feroz y mortal" la competencia que el tren de alta velocidad (AVE) supone para las compañías que realizan el trayecto Madrid-Barcelona. No quiso valorar el impacto que el AVE ha tenido en el puente aéreo de Iberia. "Habrá que esperar un par de meses para conocer el impacto real". "


Saludos.


¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDennys From France, joined May 2001, 878 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10745 times:

This is what BCN needed : IB true NSTP long haul flights .

Will it still be possible to take IB A340s BCN - MAD ?
Does LAN plan to operate A340 , and will it be a pure local flight ?

Brgds

dennys


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19515 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10680 times:

I'm going to try to translate this, but while I may be bilingual, I'm not a very good translator.

Quoting IBERIA747 (Thread starter):
"Iberia se compromete a realizar vuelos intercontinentales desde el aeropuerto de El Prat para disipar las dudas sobre que su apuesta por Barcelona es firme. Su presidente señaló que "Iberia y sus asociadas realizaran entre seis y 10 vuelos intercontinentales desde El Prat". La compañía cuenta entre esos vuelos el que realizará American Airlines de Barcelona a Nueva York en código compartido con Iberia. También suma una ruta a Santiago de Chile desde la capital catalana que operará Lan y negocia con la japonesa Japan Airlines (Jal) un vuelo con Tokio. Las negociaciones se encuentran en fase preliminar.

Iberia is committed to instituting international flights from El Prat airport, to lay to rest any doubts that its commitment to Barcelona remains firm. It's (Iberia's) president stated that "Iberia and its associates will institute between six and ten intercontinental flights from El prat." The company will also count among its flights the flight that American Airlines will institute from Barcelona to New York as a code-share. It also includes a route to Santiago de Chile from the Catalan capital that LAN will operate and is negotiating a flight to Tokyo with JAL. These negotiations are in the preliminary phase.

Quote:
Iberia realizará directamente cuatro vuelos al otro lado del Atlántico: una tercera ruta a Miami, que se añadirá a las dos frecuencias diarias desde Madrid en código compartido con American Airlines; y volará a Sao Paulo, México DC y Buenos Aires con una tercera frecuencia diaria en cada caso, que se agregarán a las dos que ya salen desde Madrid.

Iberia will institute four nonstop transatlantic flights: a third route to Miami, which will be added to the two flights from Madrid with a code-share with AA and flights to Sao Paulo, Mexico City, and Buenos Aires with a third flight in each case, which will be added to the two of each of these which already operates from Madrid.

Quote:

Los planes de Iberia, sin embargo, no son inmediatos. La compañía esperará a que la T-Sur se consolide para poner en marcha las nuevas rutas, lo que podría ocurrir en el 2011, mientras que la nueva terminal entrará en funcionamiento en el 2009. Para la Generalitat, los planes de Iberia no son muy satisfactorios, ya que desaprovechan el potencial de las nuevas instalaciones.
Para Iberia, la prioridad es la rentabilidad, destacan fuentes de la compañía. Según Conte, las líneas domésticas generan entre 200 y 250 millones de pérdidas anuales.

Iberia's plans, however, are not immediate. The company will await the consolidation of T-Sur to initiate the new routes, which could occur in 2011, while the new terminal will open in 2009. For the Generalitat, these plans are not satisfactory because they will not take advantage of the new facilities.

Quote:

Conte calificó de "feroz y mortal" la competencia que el tren de alta velocidad (AVE) supone para las compañías que realizan el trayecto Madrid-Barcelona. No quiso valorar el impacto que el AVE ha tenido en el puente aéreo de Iberia. "Habrá que esperar un par de meses para conocer el impacto real". "

Conte described the "ferocious and mortal" competition between the AVE high-speed train and the airlines operating the Madrid-Barcelona route. He did not quantify the impact which AVE has had on the "air bridge" (the Spanish name for the MAD-BCN service by IB). "We will have to wait a few months to see the actual impact."

[Edited 2008-04-22 11:58:03]

User currently offlineDennys From France, joined May 2001, 878 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10655 times:

many thanks

dennys


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32702 posts, RR: 72
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10646 times:

Great news. Here's hoping they move up that Miami-Barcelona start date...


a.
User currently offlineGatiBOSGRU From Brazil, joined Oct 2007, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10618 times:



Quoting IBERIA747 (Thread starter):
If this finally comes true, IB would operate the following routes with their own metal:

BCN-MIA-BCN
BCN-GRU-BCN
BCN-MEX-BCN
BCN-EZE-BCN

Sounds like winners to me !


User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10577 times:



Quoting IBERIA747 (Thread starter):
negotiations with JAL in order to start BCN-NRT flights in codeshare with IB

Interesting! IB and JL may start nonstop BCN-NRT flights before either airlines offers nonstop MAD-NRT flights. Before One World, JL flew NRT-AMS-MAD two or three times each week. For a short period of time, IB operate MAD-BOM-NRT flights twice a week. I am surprised that IB and JL are not planning to resume flights between MAD and NRT first.


User currently offlineDellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10451 times:



Quoting IAD380 (Reply 6):
For a short period of time, IB operate MAD-BOM-NRT flights twice a week.

IB flight was operated via SVO not BOM.


User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10438 times:

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 6):
For a short period of time, IB operate MAD-BOM-NRT flights twice a week.

Actually, IB operated the MAD-NRT route for much longer.

They started in 1986 with 1 weekly flight on the MAD-BOM-NRT route. It was advertised as "La Ruta del Sol Naciente" (The Route of the Rising Sun).

After some time (and adding another flight) they changed their route to MAD-ANC-NRT. More frequencies were added later and the route was changed again, this time it was MAD-SVO-NRT and there were up to 5 weekly flights.

Due to poor yields, weekly flights were decreased to 3, including a stop in BCN, and after some more time the route was finally dropped.

Even though the loads were not bad, the profits just weren't there. Hence why they tried 3 different routings to get to Tokyo before deciding to pull out after several years.

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 6):
JL flew NRT-AMS-MAD two or three times each week

I still miss those JL 747's here in Madrid. The AMS-MAD leg is now operated in codeshare with Iberia.

[Edited 2008-04-22 13:06:06]


¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
User currently offlineIAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10351 times:

So, is BCN-NRT likely to be more profitable than MAD-NRT? Why?

User currently offlineAisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 762 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10268 times:

What might have happen to change their minds?
I'd day two things directly related:
The hard AVE competition has made them reduce capacity on the MAD-BCN market.
The oil is at $112. Not cheap to do 5xdaily MAD-BCN for connections included in the fare price for free.

Quoting IBERIA747 (Thread starter):
If this finally comes true, IB would operate the following routes with their own metal:

BCN-MIA-BCN
BCN-GRU-BCN
BCN-MEX-BCN
BCN-EZE-BCN

Seems these are all routes flown more than 1xdaily and schedules would allow a plane to go MAD-XXX-BCN-XXX-MAD.
But still, one at a time. And still several things have to be sorted out in BCN before this happens. The clickair-vueling merger, what happens to the project to offer connections on clickair, the Spanair take-over, the terminal assignments....

Quoting Dennys (Reply 1):
This is what BCN needed : IB true NSTP long haul flights .

I don't think BCN needed desperately long haul flights to be operated by IB. People tend to think that the former flag carriers should fly from airports other than their hubs. I don't see why an IB BCN-JFK could be better than any other's.

Quoting Dennys (Reply 1):
Will it still be possible to take IB A340s BCN - MAD ?

Don't count on it. IB's short of widebodies so I don't think they're being used on such a short route when air shuttle service is being reduced.

Quoting Dennys (Reply 1):
Does LAN plan to operate A340 , and will it be a pure local flight ?

If LAN has to use the 340 on the SCL-MAD-FRA runs because of lentgh (to MAD) or because of cargo (to FRA), but it's because of lentgh, they'll probably need the 340 for BCN. And who knows... maybe the MAD-FRA tag-on is changed to BCN-FRA (If they have to send the 340 and FRA is run only because of cargo)

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 6):
Interesting! IB and JL may start nonstop BCN-NRT flights before either airlines offers nonstop MAD-NRT flights.

Mmmmm, No dates are given yet and IB has still to convince oweworld partners to do the flying. In the case of JL it would mean flying JAL's own metal to BCN before serving MAD. Maybe, when the time comes, IB will be already flying MAD-NRT. It could be feasible, now JAL uses AF, a non-oweworld partner to get its passengers to BCN, so BCN seems fairly important for the Japanese market.


User currently offlineGatoVolador From Spain, joined Apr 2007, 435 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10239 times:

My personal opinion is that:

- "Promises are for free": Iberia is engaged in the purchase of Spanair, which was a carrier that promised (under the roof of Marsans & Star Alliance) a hub in BCN and intercontinental flights. The Catalan government was for Star, and against Oneworld. Given that the other bidders (Longstock, Gadair...) also promoted the idea of BCN as a hub, IB was in a clear disadvantage with respect to the others. I can imagine that promising intercontinental flights is a strategy to convince the government of Catalonia in order to support Iberia, now that Marsans is gone and that Gadair, Longstock, Bin Salem, and the others were discarded by SAS due to their lack of ability to show solvency. Lufthansa is also asking SAS not to sell Spanair, so afterwards the sale is getting more and more difficult. IB needs support, even if they are the only bidder selected by SAS to access the second stage of the sale, and the promise of new flights can help.

- 10 routes is too...oooo much. However, I can imagine 5-6 routes. I would say IB will operate only a 50% with their own metal.

- The routes I can imagine are the ones that don't diminish the hub in MAD. Notice that other alliances are gathering passengers from BCN to NYC (Delta, Continental...), to EZE (Aerolineas Argentinas), to BOG (Avianca), etc. Somehow, IB is not facing the trade-off "Madrid vs Barcelona", but rather the trade-off "Iberia vs other alliances". In other words, with direct flights, the connecting flights have problems.
Moreover, it's interesting to show that these flights are mainly point-to-point oriented. The flights to EZE or BOG have loads of immigrants living in BCN, and the ones of NYC are leisure flights (Americans that will board a cruise at BCN port, or Spaniards going to NYC for tourism). Of course, I can imagine that there are also business class passengers, but I'd say the main kind of passenger is the one I described.
Since most of the passengers do not connect to any other flight, a point-to-point operation to some specific destinations would be a success, because IB could fill the aircrafts with local passengers, and moreover these passengers would not decrease the number of pax in MAD, because they would basically come from other carriers and alliances, rather than from the hub of MAD.

- What is more, IB is speculating that Spanair could remain as a Star Alliance carrier with ties with IB (and OW). If this even happened, IB could use the network of Spanair to Star Alliance hubs (Scandinavia, Germany, Austria, and Portugal) in order to gather loyal Star Alliance passengers from these countries and take them to BCN, were they could fly the IB flights under a JK code (meaning that Spanair could grant miles to Star FFP cardholders in the BCN-XXX flight operated by Iberia and marketed as a Spanair flight, so, as a Star Alliance one). This could allow IB to gather extra passengers from Star countries. This would be a "new" demand (so, not a negative effect for MAD) that otherwise would be carried by other carriers and not by IB from MAD. As I said before, the trade-off is not "Barcelona vs Madrid", but "Iberia vs. Star Alliance (ex: TAP) and non aligned Latin American carriers". (Notice that in BCN, Star and One will share the facilities of the T4, whereas in MAD they are in two distant terminals.)

- In any case, I imagine the BCN operation quite small, focused in the local market and willing to catch non-Iberia demand. The BCN operation could increase (and not re-balance or split the demand in two hubs) the overall demand of Iberia and, to me, it will not be a danger to MAD. MAD will still be the only true hub, and BCN will only host a small number of destinations.

- I don't believe the JAL flight. It will only happen after the arrival of the flight to Japan from MAD. Maybe IB could operate from MAD some days, and JAL from BCN the alternative ones, but... it seems that JAL is also short of aircrafts, and MAD would make more sense than MAD in the short run.


User currently offlineCopenhagenboy From Denmark, joined Sep 2001, 598 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10223 times:

haha, sorry, but IB want to buy Spaniar from SAS, there is a fight going on, the pilots of Spanair don't want Spanair to be taken over by Iberia and then close the company. Now they want to make longhauls from Barcelona, a city they have before only seen as a feeder into Madrid, Am i wrong?

User currently offlineKLM685 From Mexico, joined May 2005, 1577 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10215 times:



Quoting IBERIA747 (Thread starter):
BCN-MEX-BCN

LOL It only took AM to start playing in Iberia's backyard for it to notice they need to take action there as well.

I'm glad Iberia is giving a better position to BCN. Lots of potential there!



KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2148 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10181 times:

I am pleased to see IB push up the importance of BCN, which is in my experience and opinion a far nicer and easier airport than MAD.

asturias



Tonight we fly
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11429 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10173 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting GatiBOSGRU (Reply 5):
Quoting IBERIA747 (Thread starter):
If this finally comes true, IB would operate the following routes with their own metal:

BCN-MIA-BCN
BCN-GRU-BCN
BCN-MEX-BCN
BCN-EZE-BCN

Sounds like winners to me !

They need to change Brazilian Bilateral Agreement previously, only 23 weekly flights are allowed to Southeast, and IB already fly 21 of them (11 to 14 GRU and 6 to 7 weekly to GIG).

Also, they are facing problems to fill 14 (every week IB is cancelling 1 to 3 flights), i imagine 21 !



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineCopenhagenboy From Denmark, joined Sep 2001, 598 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10161 times:

Or they will drop the plans if or when they have bought Spanair?

User currently offlineUPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 10085 times:



Quoting GatoVolador (Reply 11):
Promises are for free": Iberia is engaged in the purchase of Spanair, which was a carrier that promised (under the roof of Marsans & Star Alliance) a hub in BCN and intercontinental flights. The Catalan government was for Star, and against Oneworld. Given that the other bidders (Longstock, Gadair...) also promoted the idea of BCN as a hub, IB was in a clear disadvantage with respect to the others. I can imagine that promising intercontinental flights is a strategy to convince the government of Catalonia in order to support Iberia, now that Marsans is gone and that Gadair, Longstock, Bin Salem, and the others were discarded by SAS due to their lack of ability to show solvency. Lufthansa is also asking SAS not to sell Spanair, so afterwards the sale is getting more and more difficult. IB needs support, even if they are the only bidder selected by SAS to access the second stage of the sale, and the promise of new flights can help.

Fully agree here, IB centralization at MAD have proven successfully on both operating and financial side. I'll believe it when I see it. IMO we might see in the long run:
AA adding BCN-MIA by 2010
BCN-MEX by MX a while after fully joining OW.
BCN-

On the JL side, I think it'd not be a great move to start BCN-NRT instead of MAD-NRT where OW partner IB can provide feed from LatAm, NorthAfrica and the rest of the iberian peninsula.



744,742,741,772,773,762,732,735,738,752,727,717,DC10,DC9,M82,M87,319,320,321,343,346,L1011,CRJ2,CRJ9,E190,ATR42,DSH8,
User currently offlineSKY1 From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 879 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9897 times:



Quoting GatoVolador (Reply 11):
Promises are for free



Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 17):
Fully agree here, IB centralization at MAD have proven successfully on both operating and financial side. I'll believe it when I see it.

 checkmark 

Does nobody remember here the AZ dual hub?

The This is not due to occur in the "short term", statement clearly indicates that it's slight promise.

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 17):
On the JL side, I think it'd not be a great move to start BCN-NRT instead of MAD-NRT where OW partner IB can provide feed from LatAm, NorthAfrica and the rest of the iberian peninsula.

 checkmark 

And this is the first time I hear LAN is interested in serving a more Spanish airport, other than Madrid.



Time flies! Enjoy life!
User currently offlineBBADXB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 9779 times:

I am happy to hear that IB is interested in serving some important longhaul routes out of BCN, using its own metal or in partnership with other oneworld member airliners.

With regards to spanair, I have so far had only good experiences with them so far. However, when my brother went to book a flight with them very recently, the price jumped by 250% between looking up the flight (within Spain) and entering his card details. He ended up booking with Iberia for about the same price as that originally quoted by spanair.
Similarly, a friend ended up paying over 200% of the quoted price between looking up the flight (a domestic flight) and inputting his card details (and I do not refer to taxes or charges, which were also included in the original price). Today, my friend got an email that the flight is now cancelled and got rebooked on a flight that's not acceptable. There are no reasonably-priced flights at such short notice.
I am starting to suspect that this price-jacking is a regular spanair practice - it has also happened to me last month, but the price jump was of "only" 60%. Has anyone had similar experiences with spanair? What's worse is that after you book your flight, at an additional premium, you get informed that it has been cancelled and you are rebooked onto a new flight that does not tailor to your needs, and there are no reasonably-price alternatives at such short notice. While I believe that it's better to have spanair as a separate entity from Iberia for the sake of competition, I would not be too sad to see them go.

Saludos from Spain,

BBADXB  Smile


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 8326 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 9761 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Expect many of the cities in the Americas served from Madrid to be flown from BCN.

User currently offlineGatoVolador From Spain, joined Apr 2007, 435 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 9700 times:



Quoting IAD380 (Reply 9):
So, is BCN-NRT likely to be more profitable than MAD-NRT? Why?

It will not be more profitable, that's for sure. To me, this is not feasible in the short run. If they said this it's because in 3 or 4 years, nobody will remember the concrete words of Fernando Conte.

Quoting Copenhagenboy (Reply 12):
the pilots of Spanair don't want Spanair to be taken over by Iberia

Of course there are pilots that would prefer remaining as they are now. But I wouldn't say that they don't want the takeover by Iberia. On the contrary, SEPLA-Spanair (the union) was very satisfied with it. They do not protest against IB, they protested against some firms with low levels of credibility (as Gadair) and against the "silence policy" of SAS.

SAS is having some problems to manage the sale. Some weeks ago, the press said that Gadair and Longstock would buy Spanair in only some hours. Then, it was the contrary, and Gadair "divorced" Longstock, and they both presented alternative bids, but none was able to show a single euro.

The protest was because for sure if the press said that the sale was almost done, something about this story had to be true, and this scared SEPLA, which stated that the representatives were completely uninformed by SAS.

Now IB is the only bidder, and surprisingly SAS is already "thinking" about the sale because LH told SAS not to sell Spanair not Iberia. The employees are tired of almost one year of sale and speculation. They want information from SAS, a solid parent company, and the preservation of their rights. There is no particular collective conspiracy against IB.

Quoting Copenhagenboy (Reply 12):
...and then close the company.

For sure this is not going to happen. Iberia already showed to the Ministry of Transports & Public Works a plan in which they commit themselves to keep the number of workers unchanged, to respect Spanair's own labour agreement, and to maintain the bases of Barcelona and Palma de Mallorca.

On top of this, Iberia s very interested in the BCN-MAD route, in the BCN-Spain operations, and the most important, the need heavy increases in the MAD-Spain/Europe sector as to match the growth in long-haul. Spanair has a very good asset which is the expertise of the captains and FO, which is not an easy element that you could buy in the market. (Remember how difficult it was to find captains for Clickair, and as a matter of fact, they had to hire foreign pilots without any knowledge of Spanish and lower expertise. This is not a problem, but one of the requirements of the flag carriers is the ability to speak Spanish and high expertise. This is very difficult to find.)

As you can see, Iberia will absolutely not shut Spanair down. Precisely, it's the other way around: the need extra capacity, and Spanair is a company which is already going on.

Quoting Copenhagenboy (Reply 12):
Now they want to make long hauls from Barcelona, a city they have before only seen as a feeder into Madrid, Am i wrong?

Not exactly. There is no need to see the "hardcore" version.

IB never forgot BCN. Up to Oct. 2006, they covered an "impressive" domestic and European network out of BCN, even bearing its losses. From Oct 2006, IB pulled out but they switched to Clickair, which is a subsidiary and that offers a decent product, even if it's not the one of IB. So the network was basically maintained. The main change was that we were used to a traditional product, and Clickair was a different concept of airline, with very early departures (5:40-7am), a not so diversified portfolio of frequencies (IB used to spread the frequencies all over the day, whereas Clickair has some of them concentrated), no business class, etc.

By the way, IB made the BCN-JFK flight in the past, and some medium-haul flights (Cairo, Tel Aviv, Athens, Istanbul, Marrakesh,...) and they all had so-so performances, whereas in MAD they had a great success due to the hub. (See how good the MAD-IST route evolved in terms of demand once the flight stopped the BCN stop.)

When IB operated the BCN-JFK route, the market was totally different, with less "willingness" to fly, etc. Flying was not that popular. Today, the flight could work. But at the end, it's a matter of how mature the market is. As an example, some years ago Air Nostrum used to cover (in a quite efficient way) the MAD-GRO route, inherited from Aviaco. The loads were very poor, as the ones of Aviaco. Non-IB carriers did the same, and they all failed.

Now, Spanair achieved to have 3 daily flights, and Ryanair an extra one. Even if they don't perform perfectly (they are average to poor), they work. Why? Well... maybe because some years ago, GRO was a desert airport and nobody considered flying out of GRO. Now, they airport is a very popular Ryanair destination, so selling a Spanair flight is easier because passengers try to buy a ticket from GRO instead of buying a flight from BCN, as they used to do before. Things have changed.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 14):
I am pleased to see IB push up the importance of BCN, which is in my experience and opinion a far nicer and easier airport than MAD.

My local airport is nice, but I find MAD very good. I suppose you like BCN because of the simplicity of the terminals, which are "human sized" and more intuitive.

But remember that BCN will open the new Terminal D in some months, and... Terminal D is a kind of T4 with loooong buildings a lots of walking.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 15):
Also, they are facing problems to fill 14 (every week IB is cancelling 1 to 3 flights), i imagine 21 !

Uhmmm.... I don't know the precise data, but... I don't think IB is cancelling flights due to poor sales. On the contrary, Brazil is showing a very positive trend with satisfying results. And guess that these cancellations might be linked to aircrafts shortages. Notice that some destinations in Brazil work as wet-leased destinations. This implies that they have to cover HAV, TFN, SDQ, some frequencies to Brazil with an "isolated" fleet and cabin crew. Any minor problem leads to a cancellation because having substitute planes inside this wet-leased operations is almost impossible.

Quoting Copenhagenboy (Reply 16):
Or they will drop the plans if or when they have bought Spanair?

Probably, at the end this "hub" will be more modest than it seems. They will run some almost point-to-point intercontinental flights (as most of the ones currently operating from BCN and being operated by other airlines, due to the poor connectivity of Air Europa and the discrete intercontinental connectivity of Spanair), and that's it.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11429 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9477 times:
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Quoting GatoVolador (Reply 21):
Uhmmm.... I don't know the precise data, but... I don't think IB is cancelling flights due to poor sales. On the contrary, Brazil is showing a very positive trend with satisfying results. And guess that these cancellations might be linked to aircrafts shortages. Notice that some destinations in Brazil work as wet-leased destinations. This implies that they have to cover HAV, TFN, SDQ, some frequencies to Brazil with an "isolated" fleet and cabin crew. Any minor problem leads to a cancellation because having substitute planes inside this wet-leased operations is almost impossible.

Could be the reason.
This week, IB will not run on Sunday 27 IB6825/6827. Next week, no IB6821/6823 on Tuesday (04/29) and Wednesday (04/30) as well as again IB6825/6827 will not run on Sunday 04. IB6825/6827 (to GIG) will run daily next week.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineSteelyman From Andorra, joined Feb 2007, 118 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7189 times:



Quoting GatoVolador (Reply 21):
It will not be more profitable, that's for sure. To me, this is not feasible in the short run. If they said this it's because in 3 or 4 years, nobody will remember the concrete words of Fernando Conte

Each and every day in BCN you can see a crowd of Japanese PAX coming from NRT from other european destinations just because there is no direct flight. At the early morning the KL, AF and AY flights are full of this kind of PAX.

If SIA operates BCN and nod MAD, why not JL?



BRGDS, Mike
User currently offlineJBH From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6902 times:



Quoting Steelyman (Reply 23):
Each and every day in BCN you can see a crowd of Japanese PAX coming from NRT from other european destinations just because there is no direct flight. At the early morning the KL, AF and AY flights are full of this kind of PAX.

If SIA operates BCN and nod MAD, why not JL?

Exactly. I know someone who works for AFKL in Spain and it seems that there are many more pax flying BCN-CDG-Japan and BCN-AMS-Japan than MAD-CDG-Japan and MAD-AMS-Japan.

I guess IB also knows that and wants a piece of the cake.

Good for BCN and IB!


25 Post contains images DocLightning : My favorite part of the whole thing was the admission by IB that AVE is kicking their culos on its routes. Yeah, I'm a railfan. What can I say? [Edite
26 Spud757 : Good job BA didn't buy IB.... BCN operations would have been moved to LHR
27 Bullpitt : I think that's a Little bit exaggerated. it's obvious that the ave is going to have an impact at the moment about 10% if you take into consideration
28 B747forever : How will this affect the widebody service to the Canaries??
29 EddieDude : With only 2 weeklies on old 762ERs, AM will probably end up dropping its MEX-BCN-MEX service once IB launches BCN-MEX-BCN. It is a real shame. How I
30 Asturias : That is exactly right asturias
31 GatoVolador : It's true but (at least in the past), MAD used to get much more Japanese and North American tourists than BCN. Now this probably changed because of t
32 Farnborough24 : But don't we hear on here time after time that tourist traffic is low yield? And hence is it going to be worth anyone flying a seriously long sector
33 EddieDude : Well, while the Clase Premier and Clase Turista of AM in the brand new 772ERs is top, top notch, their 767 product is quite outdated and nowhere near
34 UPPERDECKFAN : Considering all the criticism IB centralization at MAD has gotten from the catalan politics, one of the things I've wondered for long is why they have
35 Mozart : Can somebody put this in context? IB reduced their network from BCN and transferred many routes to clickair. Now they want to expand again... what log
36 Trinxat : Fullly agree. This is not the first time IB makes promises about future expansion in BCN and then it all turns to be a bunch of lies, to say it strai
37 R2rho : I don't understand the obsession with IB BCN. It is no longer the national flag carrier and therefore has no obligation to be a public service. They a
38 Post contains links GatoVolador : Quoting Trinxat (Reply 36): Who is going to be the feeder for those longhaul flights? Clickair? Spanair if they finally buy them? Or de they expect to
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