Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
TAM Brazil Studying The Airbus A380  
User currently offlineSInGAPORE_AIR From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13745 posts, RR: 19
Posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6562 times:

TAM is a strong candidate to order the Airbus A380.

This could occur from 2010 (I assume deliveries).

During demonstration flights for the A380 in December, TAM President David Barioni mentioned this prospect.

Singapore Airlines has three Airbus A380s in service.

TAM says international traffic has more than doubled while domestic traffic has grown 77%.

Source: FolhaNews of Brazil. No link. Dow Jones Factiva document FOLHAN0020080423e44n003pe



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7593 posts, RR: 42
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6385 times:

Interesting news. At some point last year, around the time of an aviation show (Paris maybe, can't remember), there was speculation that JJ or another Brazilian airline would place an order for A380s. In the end, nothing like that happened. What is relevant is that somebody probably leaked some inside information, or what was mere speculation back there has now become a reality.

In any case, it will be interesting to see if JJ determines that they need an A380. It would be great to see a Latin American carrier (more on this below) operating the A380 but I wonder whether JJ's needs can be effectively satisfied with planes no larger than the 773ER and the future A359XWB. I do not want to be pessimistic (on the contrary, I'd love to see JJ flying superjumbos!) but I think that the jump in capacity from the 773ER (which JJ already has) to the A380 is quite significant. Anyway, if JJ really needs more seats and more belly space than what the 773ER offers them, then it comes down to 748i and the A380 as the natural candidates (with the A380 ahead due to JJ's preference for Airbus aircraft).

As a side note, AR's parent Marsans had placed an order for several A380s, of which a number were for Air Comet and some other for AR. Then, a week or two ago, there were several active threads here on a.net discussing AR's financial crisis and imminent bankruptcy or implosion... I don't know if AR is really about to go bankrupt or if Marsans will just let AR collapse, but I do believe that the prospects of us ever seeing an AR A380 are none to very slim. Anybody?



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8969 posts, RR: 39
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6358 times:

If that is true, it may mean that TAM doesn't see any changes in regards to GRU-GIG domination any time soon or at least somewhat more relaxed bilateral agreements. Somewhat disappointing really. Let's hope this is wrong.

However, it would indeed be fantastic to see an A380 with a Brazilian carrier!

[Edited 2008-04-23 15:09:14]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently onlineOldAeroGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3548 posts, RR: 67
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6346 times:



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 1):
Anyway, if JJ really needs more seats and more belly space than what the 773ER offers them, then it comes down to 748i and the A380 as the natural candidates

Seats yes, but after the passenger bags are onboard, the 773ER has more available cargo volume than the 748i or the A380.



Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7593 posts, RR: 42
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6263 times:



Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 3):
after the passenger bags are onboard, the 773ER has more available cargo volume than the 748i or the A380

Ah, quite interesting. I did not know this. Thanks for the info. I guess JJ then sees a lot of demand for seats to/from Brazil. I would think that FRA and MIA are the two main destinations for which the A380s are being considered. Or could CDG and JFK be candidates for A380 service too?



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6175 times:

sorry to be the pessimist but if JJ goes for the A380, they are sealing their fate. The A380 for a Latin carrier is nothing more than an ego symbol and will portend far greater problems in recognizing their weaknesses and addressing them.

User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6052 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 5):
sorry to be the pessimist but if JJ goes for the A380, they are sealing their fate. The A380 for a Latin carrier is nothing more than an ego symbol and will portend far greater problems in recognizing their weaknesses and addressing them.

The A380 makes perfect sense for some South American carriers. There are routes that have strong demand and don't require frequency. EZE-MAD is the perfect example for that. That is way Marsan has oredered the A380. The financial problems of AR might prevent them ever operating the A380, but that does not question the argument that the A380 is the perfect plane for EZE-MAD.

To call the A380 a ego symbol for JJ is nonsense. JJ is known for beeing rather conservative During RG's demise they were often accused of even beeing too conservative but JJ's balanced approach has paid off so far.


User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5984 times:



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 4):
I guess JJ then sees a lot of demand for seats to/from Brazil.

Looks like that has already happened (see below). However, over what period has international traffic doubled? How much of that increase was business that came over from Varig? Are thoughts of acquiring the A380 dependent on international traffic increasing substantially more by the time A380's could be delivered?

Quoting SInGAPORE_AIR (Thread starter):
TAM says international traffic has more than doubled



User currently offlineNeo From Brazil, joined Jan 2001, 672 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5953 times:



Quoting SInGAPORE_AIR (Thread starter):
TAM is a strong candidate to order the Airbus A380.

This could occur from 2010 (I assume deliveries).

During demonstration flights for the A380 in December, TAM President David Barioni mentioned this prospect.

Singapore Airlines has three Airbus A380s in service.

TAM says international traffic has more than doubled while domestic traffic has grown 77%.

This is so old news.. can't believe how people revive some topics here...

Moving on...to the next thread!

Rgs,

Neo


User currently offlineTp727 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5888 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 5):
sorry to be the pessimist but if JJ goes for the A380, they are sealing their fate. The A380 for a Latin carrier is nothing more than an ego symbol and will portend far greater problems in recognizing their weaknesses and addressing them.

Hello WorldTraveler,

I am sure it´s not a matter of ego if JJ ever goes for the A380. Be sure that all they care about is making money and nothing else, nothing. If they could sell the toilet seats for people to travel, they would, and also try to make people think it´s a good choice because you don´t have to get up and bother other people on you way. Believe me. The only thing that comes to their minds is money.

Gilson


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8969 posts, RR: 39
Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5868 times:



Quoting Neo (Reply 8):

It was on Folha Online today:

http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/dinheiro/ult91u394963.shtml



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3397 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5761 times:



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 1):
As a side note, AR's parent Marsans had placed an order for several A380s, of which a number were for Air Comet and some other for AR. Then, a week or two ago, there were several active threads here on a.net discussing AR's financial crisis and imminent bankruptcy or implosion... I don't know if AR is really about to go bankrupt or if Marsans will just let AR collapse, but I do believe that the prospects of us ever seeing an AR A380 are none to very slim. Anybody?

The order was annouced by both GM and Airbus but as yet has never been firmed - I would be somewhat suprised if it did now.


User currently offlineLPSHobby From Brazil, joined May 2007, 193 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5411 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Dear friends,


As I told here before, a very good source told me TAM would order 4 firm A380 with 4 options, with deliveries starting in 2012.
A good route for these planes could be São Paulo-Paris, in wich route TAM has now 3 daily flights with A330-200, it would be logical to put A380s in this route, as Air France, with 2 daily flights in this route, could do the same....


Best wishes,


Leonardo


User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3397 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5334 times:



Quoting LPSHobby (Reply 12):
As I told here before, a very good source told me TAM would order 4 firm A380 with 4 options, with deliveries starting in 2012.

They'd better get their order in quick as the production line is filling up fast for planes in that sort of timescale. Finger's crossed, any new airline ordering a VLA is great!


User currently offlineJmbarros12 From Brazil, joined Nov 2007, 249 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5251 times:



Quoting LPSHobby (Reply 12):
A good route for these planes could be São Paulo-Paris, in wich route TAM has now 3 daily flights with A330-200, it would be logical to put A380s in this route, as Air France, with 2 daily flights in this route, could do the same....

Agreed 100%.

The strong growth of international flights demand in Brazil opens space for this type of aircraft. Tome, it´s more likely to JJ having the A380 in the next 4 years than not having...

João Marcelo



Go Boeing!
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3713 posts, RR: 19
Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 5164 times:



Quoting LPSHobby (Reply 12):
São Paulo-Paris, in wich route TAM has now 3 daily flights with A330-200

Thrice daily since when?


User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6229 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5066 times:

IF the oil finds in Brazil keep coming...look for TAM to open up IAH....as those oil execs will be living in Brazil!

A low density F&J 380 will do nicely....and you only need one aircraft to do the route.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4034 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5038 times:



Quoting JoFMO (Reply 6):
The A380 makes perfect sense for some South American carriers. There are routes that have strong demand and don't require frequency. EZE-MAD is the perfect example for that.

One long-haul route does not make the case for a fleet. EZE-MAD (northbound) is an awful example to make the case for the A380. Maybe MAD-EZE (southbound) could be used to argue for larger aircraft, but given that the other direction does not help, you are stuck with a large airplane good for half of a route.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 5):
The A380 for a Latin carrier is nothing more than an ego symbol

 checkmark 

Quoting Jmbarros12 (Reply 14):
The strong growth of international flights demand in Brazil opens space for this type of aircraft. Tome, it´s more likely to JJ having the A380 in the next 4 years than not having...

With due respect I will disagree on two counts.

There is no strong growth of international demand in Brazil. For the past fours years international traffic in Brazil has grown an average of 6% per year. A significant share of that growth is on nonGIG/GRU international travel, which could be leveraged with smaller aircraft, not larger ones.

Second, alliances and more competition generate the need for more frequency, not less frequency with more seats, at least in a relatively small market like Sao Paulo (compared to say, New York, Tokyo or London). Alliances create connecting opportunities. Say TAM gets very close to Lufthansa. It makes sense to have GRU-FRA four times daily (say, 3pm, 6pm, 9pm, midnight) because it gives travelers options and creates lots of connections from say, Ribeirao Preto to Beirut, Bangalore, Kiev, etc.



Stop pop up ads
User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2183 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4172 times:



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 4):
Or could CDG and JFK be candidates for A380 service too?

They might wanna get CDG before AF gets the idea....



When I doubt... go running!
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
FI: Everything About The Airbus A380 posted Wed Oct 11 2006 14:18:12 by Leelaw
What's It Like To Fly On The Airbus A380? posted Tue Sep 12 2006 13:43:09 by WINGS
Everything About: The Airbus A380 posted Fri Apr 21 2006 17:09:59 by Leelaw
New Documentary On TLC June 8th: The Airbus A380 posted Fri May 28 2004 04:59:21 by BigMac
Will Air France Order The Airbus A380 Freighter? posted Wed May 19 2004 00:35:09 by American 767
British Airways & The Airbus A380 posted Mon May 12 2003 04:09:59 by Teahan
Will The Airbus A380 Make It To Production? posted Thu May 31 2001 03:35:14 by Airplanetire
Will The Airbus A380 Meet LHR Noise Regulations? posted Sat Mar 31 2001 21:16:10 by Singapore_Air
IB Is Studying The A380, Decision Before December posted Wed Apr 16 2008 15:17:23 by MIgAiR54
Airbus A380 - The Final Countdown. (Part 2) posted Sat Oct 13 2007 04:31:14 by WINGS