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The New French Aviation Thread..  
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Posted (6 years 7 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4868 times:

Since nobody ever dared it –here it comes-the ultimate French aviation section !

I’ d like to post news about French aviation here, that are not tied to the Air France-Alitalia case ,since it deserved some separate threads.

News related to the French-aviation market those last weeks included :

-the withdrawal of the French new airline “Eurociel” from the Nîmes airport ,due to political clashes within the Languedoc Roussillon region …(The president Frèche wanted to focus all aviation activities on Montpellier, Perpignan and Carcassonne ,killing all private initiatives on Nîmes and Beziers airports. ( www.eurociel.net ). Eurociel was a wet-lease project with New Axis Airways ,putting a 737 onto Nîmes as base.

-The purchase of the French group “Europe Airpost” (16 Boeing 737 QC ) by the Belgian group Aircontractors…
http://www.aerocontact.com/news/ac_news_art.php?ID=06776

-The opening of a BA146 Flight from Nice to Généve by Cityjet,the Low-Cost daughter of Air France ,and in direct competition to Easyjet

-Aigle Azur will receive it’s 11th aircraft – an additional A319.. (the company is owned
By the Algerian business-man Arezki Idjerouidène and does focus on North-African flights )

-“L’Avion” has published their last quarter’s loads on ORY-EWR – 71% and up compared to previous quarter and transporting more than 13.000 passangers.

-Transavia Holland has started AMS-MPL services four times/week.This flight adds to the existing Nice/Amsterdam, Nice/Rotterdam, Pau/Amsterdam, Grenoble/Rotterdam et Toulon-Hyères/Rotterdam. A new Rotterdam-ORY service is also opened in Mai.
-Iberia opened also MPL with four rotations between MAD and MPL,using Air Nostrum
Canadair gear..


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1857 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (6 years 7 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4773 times:

Hi Beaucaire
Thanks for starting this thread. Here are some questions :
- Eurociel, will they fly from another airport or is the entire project cancelled ?
- L'avion, they were supposed to start a new flight to YUL soon. Is it finally confirmed ?
- does anybody know how Transavia ex-Orly is performing since its beginning ?

Cheers
Goldorak


User currently offlineGAIsweetGAI From Norway, joined Jul 2006, 934 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4752 times:

Might be slightly OT - is there any practical way to get from Versailles (anywhere) to ORY using only public transportation?


"There is an art, or rather a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1917 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4744 times:

Quoting GAIsweetGAI (Reply 2):
Might be slightly OT - is there any practical way to get from Versailles (anywhere) to ORY using only public transportation?

RER C8: Versailles Chantiers-Massy Palaiseau
RER B4: Massy Palaiseau-Antony
OrlyVal: Antony-Orly Ouest and Sud
http://www.ratp.info/orienter/cv/carterer.php
But I would not call that "practical".

[Edited 2008-04-25 16:06:53]

User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4630 posts, RR: 77
Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4740 times:
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Thanks for starting this thread, Beaucaire.

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
-The opening of a BA146 Flight from Nice to Généve by Cityjet,the Low-Cost daughter of Air France ,and in direct competition to Easyjet

I wouldn't call CityJet a lo-co for AF. Could be more of a purveyor to AF's hubs. But this is new and makes me think that the demise of air Littoral was a bloody shame.

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
-The purchase of the French group "Europe Airpost" (16 Boeing 737 QC ) by the Belgian group Aircontractors...

Looks to me more Irish than Belgian. Let's see on what kind of contracts they are going for their new hires. EasyJet will have a run for their money, considering the 'Post traffic rights.
Very interesting.



Contrail designer
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (6 years 7 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4697 times:



Quoting Pihero (Reply 4):
Looks to me more Irish than Belgian. Let's see on what kind of contracts they are going for their new hires. EasyJet will have a run for their money, considering the 'Post traffic rights.
Very interesting.

Pihero -the owners of Air Contractors are all Belgian,although the company is based in Ireland.The financial group Pietercam (Brussels ) and the CMB (Compagnie Maritime Belge) control the ownership.The group is relatively unknown in France,but is also active in leasing aircraft to CSA.
Their fleet comprises :

Flotte Air Contractors:

Airbus A300-B4-203
OO-DIB
OO-DIC

ATR42 EI-FXA
EI-FXB
EI-FXC
EI-FXD
EI-FXE
EI-SLA
EI-SLC
OK-JFK
OK-JFL
OK-JFM
OK-KFM
OK-KFN
OK-KFO
OK-KFP

ATR72
EI-FXG
EI-FXH
EI-FXI
EI-FXJ
EI-FXK
EI-SLF
EI-SLG
EI-SLH

Fokker 27
EI-SMF
G-BMXD
G-BVOB
G-JEAD

Lockheed Hercules L382G
EI-JIV

Shorts 360
EI-SMB
G-BKMX
G-BOEG
G-BVAC
G-CLAS
G-TMRO
G-XPSS

Flotte Europe Aeroposte:

15 B737-300QC
2 B737-300F
3 A300-B4
4 F27

Quoting Goldorak (Reply 1):
- Eurociel, will they fly from another airport or is the entire project cancelled ?

To me -at this stage-the project is frozen ,although some rumours have emerged that the great Conducator of Languedoc,Frèche,wants to encourage Mr. Sala (the owner of Euromer and initiator of Eurociel in conjunction with Véolia ),to give it a try out of Montpellier.Frèche did not support the idea anything meaningful in terms of civil aviation could be started out of Nîmes,a city he heartfully hates...

Quoting Goldorak (Reply 1):
- L'avion, they were supposed to start a new flight to YUL soon. Is it finally confirmed ?

Searching other French forums about sustainable information about L'Avion does not yield any good and viable information.L'Avion will try to operate two instad of one daily flights to New York,but doubts about their financial viability are permitted.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (6 years 7 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4671 times:

Europe Air Post is studying 737-700C and converted from pax to cargo 737-800F , to replace 737-300QCs and Fs.

They seem to be happy with Boeing machines.

No words about A320F , despite they were the first airline in the world to have asked Airbus to do so , long before the Airbus decision today.



Blue Line would like to enter the North American market with MD83s.They claim market is here , out of CDG.

Also they are studying 757 and 767 to enter the long haul leisure market.




No word anymore , about Aigle Azur , wishing to get an A332.


XL France (Ex Star Al) : The end of the A320s.The last one is for TAM.New 737-800s to come



Airbus is pushing hard to place second hand A340-600s and 500s at Corsair .
Soon Airbus will have quite plenty of these aircrafts back at TLS.
They are proposing both planes to replace the entire Corsair fleet (744s and 332s)
A340-600 is perfect for the high season to FDF , PTP , RUN , and the 500 for the low season.
Also only one pilot qualification..........

744 F-GTUI will need an heavy check in 2 or 3 years , and not sure Corsair is prepared to pay for such a work.


User currently offlineLAXCDG From France, joined Apr 2008, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 7 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4652 times:

NCE-GVA by cityjet is by no means a low cost option. Cityjet is used on routes where an "mainline" AF aircraft and crew is not waranted. However ,I doubt that AF will be any type of threat to Easyjet operation on this route. especially with a BAe 146....

L'avion should focus on new york, YUL is not high yield enough for this type of ops. I hope they survive on the long run.

Nice idea Beaucaire to have started this thread,hope it will go on  Smile


User currently offlineLAXCDG From France, joined Apr 2008, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 7 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4629 times:

Given the financial state of Corsair, I doubt we will see any "new" used aircraft in their fleet. the 346 is not suitable for their network, and too new to get a good deal on it. Keep in mind that corsair buy aircraft at dirt cheap prices ,hence their current fleet of elderly 744. The 332 were the exception at a time when Corsair had a good balance sheet. they bought those 332 then sold it a couple years after to a leasing company and "leased" them back.
333 "E"( with Trent engine,like their 332) would be much better suited for FDF,PTP.Too bad the 333 is not suited for RUN, its too much a stretch for the 333.However given the scarce supply of 333,I doubt that we will see any in Corsair colors anytime soon) the 346 could make sense on RUN and due to ops restrictions on SXM run( if CRL want to do non stop return leg " AF style" - AF use 343 on SXM to alleviate ops restrictions and therefore to be able to do SXM-ORY nonstop). The 345 is a niche aircraft and not suited at all for Corsair ops.

FCKC: What is the story with Blue Line? another transatlantic venture? would be glad to learn more about this.its new to me.


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4927 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4623 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
-The opening of a BA146 Flight from Nice to Généve by Cityjet,the Low-Cost daughter of Air France ,and in direct competition to Easyjet

Dont forget Flybaboo on the route as well. They are also starting NCE-VCE non stop



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4600 times:



Quoting LAXCDG (Reply 7):
NCE-GVA by cityjet is by no means a low cost option. Cityjet is used on routes where an "mainline" AF aircraft and crew is not waranted. However ,I doubt that AF will be any type of threat to Easyjet operation on this route. especially with a BAe 146....

Now the "prix d'appelle" is only 38€ TTC -which is actually a Low Cost price compared to previous fares .

http://www.nicerendezvous.com/FR/NIC...-ET-DES-TARIFS-ETUDIES-n-3817.html



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineLarSPL From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4593 times:

anybody on the news of a new/reworked runway somewhere in the Elzas?
i assumed the runway of sarre-union LFQU was the one being re-done extended..
does anybody know what will be the new runway length?



facebook.com/ddaclassicairlines
User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2759 posts, RR: 57
Reply 12, posted (6 years 7 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4582 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
The purchase of the French group “Europe Airpost” (16 Boeing 737 QC ) by the Belgian group Aircontractors

Pihero came with the same response as I was going to give (see below), yet you are right, the Group is mainly Belgian owned. However Air Contractors is a Dublin based company, and if you look at the list of all their key people, they're all Irish names albeit one or two.

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
The opening of a BA146 Flight from Nice to Généve by Cityjet,the Low-Cost daughter of Air France ,and in direct competition to Easyjet

Cityjet is in now way a low-cost carrier. The Dublin based carrier is now a fully owned franchise of Air France. They are just like Régional and Brit air, all with "Air France operated by Cityjet, Régional etc." on their fuselage.

Quoting Pihero (Reply 4):
I wouldn't call CityJet a lo-co for AF. Could be more of a purveyor to AF's hubs. But this is new and makes me think that the demise of air Littoral was a bloody shame.

Agreed.

Quoting Pihero (Reply 4):
Looks to me more Irish than Belgian.

Agree, see above, but as Beaucaire did point out it's part of a Belgian group.

Anyway Beaucaire, well done on starting a French thread. Hope it will be as successful as the Irish threads, well be great for me as an Irish citizen in France.



Long live Aer Lingus!
User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1917 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4579 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 5):
Pihero -the owners of Air Contractors are all Belgian,although the company is based in Ireland.The financial group Pietercam (Brussels ) and the CMB (Compagnie Maritime Belge) control the ownership.The group is relatively unknown in France,but is also active in leasing aircraft to CSA.
Their fleet comprises :

Beaucaire, that's a difficult question, as usual when owners, finance, licence and country of registration are different.
Air Contractors is formally regarded as an Irish company.
Some of their planes are re-registered to the country of lease and operation.
Airbus A300-B4-203F OO-DIB and OO-DIC are registered to European Air Transport on lease from Air Contractors, and operated for DHL.
Most A300s used by EAT are leased from Air Contractors.
Air Contractors has also A300-B4-103F EI-OZA, B and C, which to my knowledge are not operating for Europe Airpost anymore but for DHL.


User currently offlineLAXCDG From France, joined Apr 2008, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4552 times:

Beaucaire: 38 euros is "prix d'appel" indeed, as we all know it,they never last long,and it usually goes up very fast.

User currently offlineGAIsweetGAI From Norway, joined Jul 2006, 934 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (6 years 7 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4542 times:



Quoting Breiz (Reply 3):
But I would not call that "practical".

Indeed - I've tried to look into this already, and it gets even worse when you want to leave from Porchefontaine...  Angry

Is there any bus of any sort that could help?



"There is an art, or rather a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
User currently offlineLAXCDG From France, joined Apr 2008, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4526 times:

GAI sweet: the only solution I see from versailles ,is to get to the RER C to INVALIDES then jump into an AIR FRANCE bus to ORY, still not very practical but thats the easiest if not the fastest way to do it...

User currently offlineAF2323 From France, joined Aug 2007, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4481 times:



Quoting GAIsweetGAI (Reply 15):
Is there any bus of any sort that could help?



Quoting LAXCDG (Reply 16):
GAI sweet: the only solution I see from Versailles ,is to get to the RER C to INVALIDES then jump into an AIR FRANCE bus to ORY, still not very practical but thats the easiest if not the fastest way to do it...

Another solution is to do Versailles->Juvisy by RER C, and then take the RATP bus 285 to Orly Sud.


User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1917 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4475 times:



Quoting GAIsweetGAI (Reply 15):
Is there any bus of any sort that could help?

It does not seem that there is any bus connecting Versailles to Orly.
From Porchefontaines, you can take bus line B or BAK to Versailles-Chantiers.
http://www.phebus.tm.fr/page.asp?val=plan
I went once from St-Quentin to Orly-Ouest as I indicated to you. You need quite a bit of time and to check carefully the connections. On a sunny day, the ride on the RER B4 is quite enjoyable.
Or you do as LAXCDG indicated.


User currently offlineLAXCDG From France, joined Apr 2008, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4457 times:

How is AF doing with 77W as far as IFSD? seems that they were plagued with that problem for the past few month,any news?

User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4427 times:



Quoting LAXCDG (Reply 19):
How is AF doing with 77W as far as IFSD? seems that they were plagued with that problem for the past few month,any news?

http://airlinersindia.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?p=39938

not only AF as it seems...



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineLAXCDG From France, joined Apr 2008, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4344 times:

yup very true Beaucaire,but since we are in the french thread,I asked for AF only even so I'm well aware of other IFSD with other airlines in the world operating 77W

User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1917 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4288 times:

I forgot to congratulate Beaucaire for starting this thread.
Can anyone give some info on the status of:
- A300 B4-203 MSN 194: was dismantled at Toulouse as a test run for the PAMELA program. Elements of a white A300 fuselage were later seen stored at TLS. Was it the same plane? And what happened to these sections?
-A320-111 MSN 0004: was carefully dismantled for spare parts by Air France Industrie at TLS and was last reported on 28 Mar 08 outside the Croix-du-Sud hangar still on its wheels. Any further news?


User currently offlineTimo007 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 38 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 7 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4261 times:

With EOS shutting down today, I wonder how much longer L'Avion has to go? I would have thought that EOS had the best chance to make it, they seemed to have good Load Factors and were able to maintain decent prices.

Does anyone know what load factor l'avion needs to be profitable?

Does anyone know what are the French language forums that would have more information on l'avion?

Thanks much,

Cheers,

Timo


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (6 years 7 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4239 times:

I use to check on "Radiocockpit" (needs some qualifications to register ) but they seem uncapable to come forward with meaningful news about "L'Avion" other than their financials do not seem to good.Fact is the man behind "l'avion"- Marc Rochet, has some defunct airlines on his agenda..(Air Libertè,Euralair,AOM..) and has been tied to certain political circles close to Chirac. The aircraft used by the company is leased from Condor.
It would have been wiser to focus on applications to the ME/Africa/India rather than New York for this type of Business,considering the competition to New York from legacy carriers and their inherent feeder-connection network in C-Class.
It seems they burned 26M € in one year for a one aircraft-operation.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
25 Goldorak : Regarding L'avion, I read yesterday in "Voyages d'Affaires" that their average LF was 71% (if I remember well). So it's not that bad but the question
26 LAXCDG : Beaucaire: 757 ops from India would have been challenging for the aircraft on the run India - France,due to "heat and humid" conditions in that countr
27 CuriousFlyer : 71% load factor, no second flight coming up on most days, no other destination, EOS down, Maxjet down, ATA down, and others... flying to the US these
28 LAXCDG : Curiousflyer: To be on the safe side book it through a travel agency,that way if l'avion goes belly up, the travel agency - by law- must reaccommodate
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