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CX's New Cabin Product  
User currently offlineSpeedbird0125 From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 184 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6912 times:

What route does CX operate their new cabin product recently? I just heard that they fly to LAX. Is it refitted in 744 and 77w? or any other aircrafts too such as 772?
Is there anyone who flew their new cabin product? any reviews or comments?
Thank you.

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6642 posts, RR: 55
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6867 times:

A good part of the 744 fleet are now fitted out with the new cabin. All of the 777-300ERs have it as well. I believe the first A340-300 is either having it done, or has already entered service with it. All of the 77W destinations obviously get the new product. LAX, LHR both get the new 74A config. Not sure which other destinations get it, but there are quite a few of the 744s done now so it must be a lot more than just the two destinations.

As for reviews, I personally like all 3 classes. The business class has endured a lot of flak but I still think it is a huge improvement over the old one, and gives many other airline's products a run for their money.


User currently offlineLDIkaros From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6620 times:

I flew CX SFO-HKG at the beginning of April, and the B744 was equippped with the new Y class seats. For the most part I liked these seats, in particular the fact that nobody can recline into your space as the seats just slide down in their shells. My biggest gripe was the location of the magazine pocket which is now located right behind your feet, below the seat cushion. I found it impossible to access it in the 'reclined' position of my seat.

Overall, I found the seats to be comfortable for my frame (172 cm, medium built). The IFE was AVOD and kept me entertained for a few hours. Also, it was announced that in-seat power was unavailable on my flight.

I hadn't flown CX for almost 8 years before this flight so I can't make a direct comparison to their earlier Y class product.


User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3849 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6469 times:

I believe LHR, YVR and FRA are the ones that get the Olympus product on a regular basis (apart from the 77W routes), the rest of the network gets a varying percentage of new class vs. the old one. They tend to try and send them as much as possible to North America (SFO and LAX) where the competition is the most intense, but because of the frequencies and the relatively small amount of available aircrafts (only about 8 or 10 have been refurb. so far) a few of the old ones still slip through.

Bottom line is, they go everywhere, some stations get it more often than others.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineSpinner145 From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2008, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6472 times:



Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 1):
As for reviews, I personally like all 3 classes. The business class has endured a lot of flak but I still think it is a huge improvement over the old one, and gives many other airline's products a run for their money.

I have flown a couple of times on the new business class, and while I agree that it is an improvement over the old layout, I think it is a big disappointment overall. The construction feels extremely cheap and flimsy, like being in the least expensive model of economy car: you are wedged into a tight space surrounded by ugly, coarse fabrics and cheap plastic. I have some other complaints too (grainy TV, lack of storage space, uncomfortable seat belts and not being able to look out the window) and came away greatly disappointed. Yeah, it's an improvement, but they could have done so much better.

CX might have used the redesigned business seats to try to match SQ (whose new seats are amazing) and separate themselves from their other competitors. Instead, they rolled out a poorly-executed product that leaves them very much in the middle of the pack among Asian carriers.


User currently offlineCX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6642 posts, RR: 55
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6281 times:



Quoting LDIkaros (Reply 2):
My biggest gripe was the location of the magazine pocket which is now located right behind your feet, below the seat cushion

Your gripe has been listened to, and now the seat pockets have been moved back to their traditional place, albeit at the cost of losing a little legroom.

Quoting Spinner145 (Reply 4):
I think it is a big disappointment overal

Part of the reason a revised business class will be announced soon, addressing some of the complaints Cx has received over the months. Hopefully it will be good, although it is a revision and not a total redesign.

Again, personally I quite like the new business class. Granted I have not flown any other airline's business class for many years so I do not have much to compare to, but the colour and material does not bother me much. I agree that it is a little flimsy and the partitions can (and will be) lowered. I also agree that not having a window to look out of is a major downside for me, although thats what you get with this layout and although SQ stayed clear of the herringbone shape, many other airlines seem to be picking it up.


User currently offlineFbgdavidson From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 3713 posts, RR: 28
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6120 times:



Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 1):
LAX, LHR both get the new 74A config.

I'm flying LHR-HKG-BKK-SIN with CX next month, all 747, and I'm getting a mix of new and old config on the seatmap (new on LHR-HKG and BKK-SIN but old on HKG-BKK). I've heard that CX are renowned for their last minute substitutions though...I'm just hoping I get the 74A on the LHR-HKG flight at least!

Expect a trip report  Yeah sure



"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1569 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6083 times:

I'll be flying JFK-YVR-HKG this June, have they put the new config on CX889? (Return on 773 which has it)


The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlineMarcoPoloWorld From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 654 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5869 times:



Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 5):
Part of the reason a revised business class will be announced soon, addressing some of the complaints Cx has received over the months. Hopefully it will be good, although it is a revision and not a total redesign.

Thanks for that update, flyboy. Doesn't sound like it would mean a discarding of the fishbone configuration then. I'm one of those agreeing that the fishbone configuration was a mistake, but of course hindsight is always 20/20, and I can't blame anyone for trying to innovate in the marketplace, which is what CX did. Still, take a look at the reviews at Skytrax, and one can only hope that CX will reconfigure its business class again (there is nothing embarrassing about that, they were bold enough to take a chance which is great - but just so happens this time, it didn't quite work). Here's one quote from the Skytrax page from a recent CX business class passenger:

"HKG-NRT in the newly designed business class seats in CX 747. Have to agree with all the earlier commentators on the new seat. Seats too thin, too many walls obstructing views - even in my "window seat" it was hard to look outside. If you sit in an aisle seat you can not see outside at all. Not enough space to put personal items - puzzled that nobody noticed this during the design phase. In sum, these are the worst business class seats of the new generation I have seen. I do not understand why they ended up making this redesign - it may turn out to be a big mistake if not fixed. I for one will be checking for my next flight if my plane has the new seats installed or not, and may decide to fly another carrier. The FAs were very aware of the shortcomings and seemed to suggest that management is considering rolling back the change. "

Here's all the reviews, which you may or may not have already seen...
http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/cathay.htm

Cathay is a great airline - I am sure they will listen to their customer's reviews and adapt accordingly.

And can someone tell me why CX does not offer a Premium Economy product? I'm not referring to something like UA's Economy Plus, which is basically just a little more legroom, but an actual upgrade such as the Y+ of EVA Air or British Airways. Cabin-wise, this is probably one of the most significant product innovations in the airline market place in recent time. If anyone can shed some light as to why Cathay has not yet made this step, I would be most grateful.


User currently offlineLutfi From China, joined Sep 2000, 781 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5167 times:



Quoting MarcoPoloWorld (Reply 8):
And can someone tell me why CX does not offer a Premium Economy product? I'm not referring to something like UA's Economy Plus, which is basically just a little more legroom, but an actual upgrade such as the Y+ of EVA Air or British Airways. Cabin-wise, this is probably one of the most significant product innovations in the airline market place in recent time. If anyone can shed some light as to why Cathay has not yet made this step, I would be most grateful.

Because they (premium economy cabis) don't make money


User currently offlineFbgdavidson From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 3713 posts, RR: 28
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5085 times:



Quoting Lutfi (Reply 9):
Because they (premium economy cabis) don't make money

??? British Airways have said in the past that on a per square foot basis, WT+ is the company's most profitable cabin.



"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
User currently offlineSpinner145 From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2008, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4976 times:



Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 5):
Part of the reason a revised business class will be announced soon, addressing some of the complaints Cx has received over the months. Hopefully it will be good, although it is a revision and not a total redesign.

Thanks for the update flyboy. Do you have any idea when the new design will be rolled out?

I really hope they can fix this design up. I spend a fair amount of time flying and I generally like Cathay quite a bit. I don't like the herringbone really, but if the execution is good I can live with it, so hopefully they have learned their mistakes.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4803 times:



Quoting Lutfi (Reply 9):
Because they (premium economy cabis) don't make money



Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 10):

??? British Airways have said in the past that on a per square foot basis, WT+ is the company's most profitable cabin.

 checkmark  VS has also stated its a good revenue maker for them QF has started to install them and will be standard on their A380. Other carriers such as NZ have it, etc.



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineCX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6642 posts, RR: 55
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4577 times:

On a side note, I have always wondered why CX's herringbone config gets so much bashing yet at the same time Virgin, Air Canada, jet airways and Air New Zealand who have the same layout don't seem to get much negativity. is it that people just expect so much more from Cathay or do I just not read the bad press about the others?

User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3849 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4293 times:



Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 13):
is it that people just expect so much more from Cathay or do I just not read the bad press about the others?

AFAIK the bashing is mostly from within the company and from regular CX business travellers, most of whom have never experienced such a product before as it is quite a departure from the usual business airline seat.

I'm sure the same thing happened with AC, VS and all the others when it first appeared.
Since this product caters specifically to the businessman travelling alone, to which it fits perfectly, I presume they all get more positive reviews than negative amongst the users.

On the other hand, there was a lot of criticism in CX about the building quality of the seats and the choice of colors. Did you check out HKT after it was retrofitted with the new seats? The fabric was tearing off the seats and separations, the TV's were wobbling on their brackets and almost falling off, etc... after only a couple of weeks of regular use. I believe these are the issues that will be addressed in the 'revised' busines class.

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 7):
I'll be flying JFK-YVR-HKG this June, have they put the new config on CX889?

You'll most likely get it. YVR is one of those stations that gets it most of the time.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineTurbojet From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 21 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days ago) and read 3755 times:

If you compare CX's new business class to NZ or VS's version, you can clearly see CX installed one more row into the same space!! No wonder CX got so much more complaints. Upper deck is most terrible on a 744. I just feel sympathy to CX's FA trying to pull Cirque du Soleil acts to close those window shades.

Air New Zealand
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air...New_Zealand_Boeing_747-400_new.php

Virgin Atlantic
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Vir...antic_Airways_Boeing_747-400_4.php

Cathay Pacific
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Cat...cific_Airways_Boeing_747-400_B.php

CX has turned from a five star airlines to a five-star flag airlines.


User currently offlineIkarus2006 From Netherlands, joined Apr 2006, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3604 times:



Quoting Francoflier (Reply 3):
I believe LHR, YVR and FRA are the ones that get the Olympus product on a regular basis (apart from the 77W routes),

I called CX in FRA to know which products there would be on June 26th on their plane as a friend of mine is booked for a FRA-HKG, and they said there would be still the old products.

Is this due to rotation issues or was the lady not aware of the new cabin products (find it though hard to believe so...)?


User currently offlineCarfield From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1946 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3500 times:

Yes, the main problem with CX new business class seats are the "narrowness" of these new seats. I flew AC's new Executive Class suites and even the first generation Upper Class cabin, and you can definitely feel the difference on CX's new seats - how narrow and claustrophobic the seats are. The walls are way too high and block out all the natural lights. It is just a disaster, and hope the revisions will include better seat cushion, sturdier materials (not cheap plastic), removal of a row of seat, and the slight lowering of the walls between each seats. But to be honest, I am not betting much on these new "revisions". There was a fight about the new business class seats on CX on a local HK paper, South China Morning Post a few months ago and I am sure CX hates to see this kind of negative publicity. The F/As hate the new seats because they can't work efficiently and properly because of the insufficient spaces and narrow aisles. Not to mention the decline of the number of F/As due to the reduction of seats. And CX goes minimal F/As these days all the time.

CX's priority for the new seats is to place them on the high yield routes like LHR, LAX, and JFK. FRA unfortunately has to wait a bit. SFO seems to be the new port receiving all the new 744s within the next month or so (due to competitions from SQ), and JFK is already seeing all new products (except Y - and I believe the first prototype, B-HOT, still only has new F and J products, and old Y seats). LHR is half half now... I assume the eventual plan is to put 77Ws on all the North American routes (LAX ASAP, as 77W handles the winter head wind better), and then LHR and other European destinations will see the 74As. I assume LHR a priority for now, and FRA and CDG will be next, followed by FCO in terms of three class products. The first A343 (B-HXF), according to hkadb.com (a local Hong Kong Chinese aviation forum), has already been reconfigured with the new J and Y products (all 343s will go two class) but is possibly randomly rotated throughout the network, so I don't expect a steady A343 new J/Y route till more reconfiguation are done.

Carfield


User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4067 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3290 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Carfield (Reply 17):
I assume the eventual plan is to put 77Ws on all the North American routes (LAX ASAP, as 77W handles the winter head wind better),

As always thanks for the great information, Carfield.
A physician friend of mine goes home to China every six weeks and flies CX most of the time. He just returned from HKG a week ago and wasn't too happy with the new J product. He's small in stature and said he felt very cramped as well as commenting about the poor quality of the workmanship. He was deeply disappointed in CX and told me after all these years he never expected CX to "cheapen" their inflight products. He asked me if it had anything to do with AA going low cost and offering subpar, mediocre inflight products and services since they are a big partner of their's within OneWorld. I laughed a bit and said I wasn't sure but did convey, I don't see CX ever becoming that frugal.

Is there really a chance CX will start utilizing the 77Ws out of LAX & SFO? Will they add additional capacity as well?

Regards,
LACA773


User currently offlineKu747 From Kuwait, joined Mar 2008, 378 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3266 times:

I flew last Feb HKG-LAX-HKG 747-400 on their new First Class and it was fabulous, In fact, it is one of the most comfortable seats I ever been on. the First Class toilets are very spacious, they have two windows.

I highly recommend CX's new First Class product, but while I was talking to one of the stewards she informed me that the new Business Class is not very comfortable and not doing well in sales and she was right, I tried the seat but it was too narrow and uncomfortable.



707,727,73all,741,742,743,744,752,753,762,763,77all,300,310,319,320,321,332,333,343,346, L10,L15,DC10,MD11,SSC,VC10
User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3849 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3188 times:



Quoting Ikarus2006 (Reply 16):
I called CX in FRA to know which products there would be on June 26th

She was probably covering her behind as with the way CX works its fleet, its impossible to know which A/C and thus which config that flight will get so soon... As with all other destinations, there's no way of telling for sure which you're going to get...

Quoting Turbojet (Reply 15):
If you compare CX's new business class to NZ or VS's version, you can clearly see CX installed one more row into the same space!!

I've never noticed that. I've only seen the competing product in pictures and was never able to judge the size, but it's quite clear on those links that it's much more cramped in CX. Well, no wonder it's getting more complaints...
CX tried to keep as many seats as the old config, hence they reduced the size of the 'berths' to as little as practical. The U/D only has one less seat in the new config than the old one...

Quoting Turbojet (Reply 15):
I just feel sympathy to CX's FA trying to pull Cirque du Soleil acts to close those window shades.

The F/As are the ones who give it the most flak. They hate every last bit of that thing. And the cabin crew complement is slightly reduced in this config as well.

Quoting Carfield (Reply 17):

 checkmark 

Quoting Carfield (Reply 17):
(except Y - and I believe the first prototype, B-HOT, still only has new F and J products, and old Y seats)

B-HKT, actually. It served as a 'prototype' for the new premium config. It still has the old Y seats and IFE.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineCX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6642 posts, RR: 55
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3091 times:

Does anyone have seat width comparisons for various business classes? The Cx business class seat is now actually wider than the old one. The fact people think it is narrow is purely psychological.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 18):
Is there really a chance CX will start utilizing the 77Ws out of LAX

There is more than a chance....October this year 77Ws to YVR and LAX confirmed.


User currently offlineNzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1524 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3034 times:



Quoting Francoflier (Reply 20):
I've never noticed that. I've only seen the competing product in pictures and was never able to judge the size, but it's quite clear on those links that it's much more cramped in CX. Well, no wonder it's getting more complaints...
CX tried to keep as many seats as the old config, hence they reduced the size of the 'berths' to as little as practical. The U/D only has one less seat in the new config than the old one...

look at the front part of the upper deck NZ has 10 seats CX has 15 that says a lot



"Pride of the pacific"
User currently offlineNzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1524 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3025 times:

[quote=Lutfi,reply=9]Because they (premium economy cabis) don't make money

Funny but the NZ premium economy cabin has now been extended 2 times from its original and has basically doubled the amount of seats available in this class .. I think it must be making big profits to do this on the 744 ..



"Pride of the pacific"
User currently offlineSpinner145 From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2008, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3001 times:

Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 21):
Does anyone have seat width comparisons for various business classes? The Cx business class seat is now actually wider than the old one. The fact people think it is narrow is purely psychological.[/quote]
I've looked for figures before on the width of the new seats and haven't been able to find any. Even if the new seat is wider, however, saying that the narrower feeling is "purely psychological" seems incorrect.

The old business class seats all had armrests on either side which aren't added to seat width but did create real storage space and shoulder room. What's more, other than the center aisle on the downstairs cabins of 747s, all those seats were next to either an aisle or a window, which created additional space where you could lean into without bothering your neighbor. The partitions on the new seats, on the other hand, come right up to the edge of the seat cushions. So even if the cushions are a little wider, shoulder space has been diminished.

[Edited 2008-04-28 05:47:56]

[Edited 2008-04-28 05:49:10]

25 Aerokiwi : The same goes for the economy cabin. Feels like getting into a new Ford, ie. cheap, flimsy and plastic fantastic. The idea for the seat recline is a
26 Post contains links Oxygen : Does this have anything to do with the revision? Note the seeming lower partition, modified partition top cap, streamlined cocktail tray, as well as
27 CXA330300 : Does this include the Y cabin?
28 Singapore_Air : I think your New Business Class is 23.5" wide but that's from my memory and I can't find the source in my inbox so it must be somewhere on the intern
29 NZA320 : Seat width comparisons for Business classes Fish bone config CX new 20" CX old 20" VS 22" NZ 22" AC 20.35" Normal forward facing Business class seats
30 Oxygen : CX's is 17" between the two armrest. If both armrest are up, then the seat width is 23.5". Note that in Virgin's 22" seat, there is an extra "armrest
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