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CO Wants Alliance With BA And AA  
User currently offlineMeta From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 337 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 15911 times:

http://www.forbes.com/reuters/feeds/...TRIDST_0_CONTINENTAL-UPDATE-1.html

According to this article, Continental wishes to not merge with United, but wants to start an alliance with American and British Airways. Why not just enter Oneworld?

123 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineVC10DC10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1036 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 15814 times:

If I'm reading this right, this would be one better than OneWorld--antitrust immunity for transatlantic operations. Essentially, doing a NW/KL thing with TATL flying for AA/BA/CO. Who stands to gain? Principally CO--reduced competition on key TATL routes ex-NYC. If I'm right, and this flys, jolly good for CO. Of course, AA and BA would also benefit from reduced competition (i.e., anti-trust immunity on TATL).

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21532 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 15768 times:

I think that's the plan. They will join Oneworld, but also codeshare specifically with AA and BA and coordinate schedules in response to the DL/NW/KL/AF anti-trust immunity thing, and the UA/LH partnership.

They already have an alliance with QF including airline mileage, and don't have very strong ties with the other carriers in SkyTeam in the pacific. JAL and Cathay would be two great partners!



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11641 posts, RR: 61
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 15723 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
I think that's the plan. They will join Oneworld, but also codeshare specifically with AA and BA and coordinate schedules in response to the DL/NW/KL/AF anti-trust immunity thing, and the UA/LH partnership.

I don't know if this deal is going to get regulatory approval without requiring concessions, which I don't think AA or BA will be down for.

Despite the fact that now - more than ever - the competitive disparity between SkyTeam and Star, and oneworld, is enormous, I still think the DOJ is going to make AA and BA (plus Continental, perhaps) suffer.

One thing's for sure: Continental in oneworld would not only elevate the alliance's service levels in the U.S., but also to lots of smaller markets in Europe from the U.S., and also solidify this alliance's absolutely undisputed position as the alliance to, from and within Latin America.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21532 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 15592 times:



Quoting Commavia (Reply 3):
I don't know if this deal is going to get regulatory approval without requiring concessions, which I don't think AA or BA will be down for.

Well, they have to decide if NYC-London is so important that it must be protected from one alliance having 1/2 the traffic, or if with open skies we must consider "USA-EU" as the market and see that BA+AA+CO is far from dominant in this regard.

Right now, the only competition in London to New York is VS and DL, since UA abandoned the route (by choice). BA+CO+AA would be in control here.

But AF/KL/DL/NW control MANY routes across the atlantic with no competition at all (ATL/CVG/DTW/MSP-CDG/AMS), and their immunity was granted. Why, exactly, is non-stop to London such a special case that even despite DL and VS offering competition and any other carrier being free to open up flights, BA+CO+AA is to be blocked? Just wondering…



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineTWAL1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 206 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 15485 times:

What a FAILURE such an alliance will be for Continental.

Continental signing an agreement with AA is like Stalin signing a non-agression pack with Hitler. I love Continental - I just hope their very conservative stance during this long awaited consolidation doesn't leave them as the weakest kid on the block.

The big winner in all of this mess is AA. AA still has the shrewdest mangagers on the block. No matter what mistakes they make, no matter what group they tick off, no matter how they abuse the trust of their employees, no matter how they disservice the communities they serve, no matter all the bad press they get, AA is still the winner.


User currently offlineCIDflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2307 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 15365 times:

I'm not so sure AA would be a big winner, especially DFW, if CO joins OneWorld. In another thread on here it says DFW is trying to court Cathay Pacific and China Eastern. I know it has been mentioned at one time that Quantas would be a good bet for DFW because of the AA/OneWorld hub. However, would DFW's chances to land these airlines dwindle if CO joined OneWorld and they decided to serve IAH instead? DFW might have to compete with IAH for those carriers. IAH sees more foreign carriers now, just wondering if that would hurt DFW's chances of landing OneWorld partners in the future...I would hate to see that happen as it would be great to see carriers like QF and CX pull up to that shiny new terminal D in DFW, one of the best terminals I have ever been too.

User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 15318 times:



Quoting Meta (Thread starter):
According to this article, Continental wishes to not merge with United, but wants to start an alliance with American and British Airways. Why not just enter Oneworld?

Easy-to make up for lost revenue when they lose the codeshares with DL/NW, which will happen. They won't share on AA routes that mimick their own in many ways but they will share on some routes that will benefit both airlines. With BA, I think a codeshare would be bigger and much more expansive, now that CO has a toehold in LHR. (Hello, CLE-LHR, please?).

But the NW/DL codeshares-especially the NW ones, have generated pretty good revenue for CO, and that has to be made up. Of course, if they do go into OneWorld, that will help, too.

Quoting TWAL1011 (Reply 5):
Continental signing an agreement with AA is like Stalin signing a non-agression pack with Hitler.

You've said that more than one time.  Yeah sure And, again, ti will not be a system-wide codeshare, but more of a limited one. It's the CO/BA potential that probably has CO management salivating.


User currently offlineJAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 5085 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 15268 times:

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, CO joining OneWorld? Make sense to me!


Work Hard But Play Harder
User currently offlineSuper80DFW From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 1694 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 15272 times:

I think this might be a sign that CO is really worried about the present industry. Have they ever thought about starting an alliance with 2 of the largest carriers in the world before rises in oil prices and mergers started happening? Why wouldn't they confide in their biggest partners that are about to become the world's largest airline?


"Things change, friends leave, life doesn't stop for anybody." -- EAT'EM UP EAT'EM UP KSU!!
User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3670 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 15103 times:



Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 6):
However, would DFW's chances to land these airlines dwindle if CO joined OneWorld and they decided to serve IAH instead? DFW might have to compete with IAH for those carriers. IAH sees more foreign carriers now, just wondering if that would hurt DFW's chances of landing OneWorld partners in the future...I would hate to see that happen as it would be great to see carriers like QF and CX pull up to that shiny new terminal D in DFW, one of the best terminals I have ever been too.

It may depend on how much incentives DFW is willing to bend over backwards just to get these carriers. KL is definitely taking a chance with DFW, but it seems that QF and CX do not want to for the sake of being in the OneWorld. Also, it could be that they might not want to or are intimidated by AA's super hub and play by AA's rules. They could guage on how KL does at DFW from the perspective as a new entrant rather than as an alliance member.

Even if CO joined OneWorld, there's still no guarantee unless there is significant numbers to warrant IAH-SYD or IAH-HKG, though IAH-HKG could be possible under CO with CX codeshare. Also, doubt you would see the shift of CX flights from JFK to EWR, except for CX to codeshare on the CO HKG flight. I doubt CX would be bold like EK, SQ, or QR to start IAH; it just does not seem to be in their corporate nature, as of now.



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2679 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 15073 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 4):
Right now, the only competition in London to New York is VS and DL

What about Eos, or AI, or even KU? They still count, too. Granted, they don't have multiple daily flights, but it's still more capacity on the route.


User currently offlineSuper80DFW From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 1694 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 15057 times:

Even if CO was to join OneWorld, I still think that QF would choose DFW because there are more flights to more places for foreigners to connect to. Not to mention that DFW would probably give incentives to such an airline.


"Things change, friends leave, life doesn't stop for anybody." -- EAT'EM UP EAT'EM UP KSU!!
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11641 posts, RR: 61
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 14947 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 4):
Why, exactly, is non-stop to London such a special case that even despite DL and VS offering competition and any other carrier being free to open up flights, BA+CO+AA is to be blocked?

A great question I've been searching for the answer to for quite some time now.

Quoting TWAL1011 (Reply 5):
AA still has the shrewdest mangagers on the block. No matter what mistakes they make, no matter what group they tick off, no matter how they abuse the trust of their employees, no matter how they disservice the communities they serve, no matter all the bad press they get, AA is still the winner.

Let's not get overly dramatic.

While many love to hate AA, and its past and present management, and think that American is the Antichrist of the industry, let's not lose sight of the fact that AA has managed to do what no other network airline has - survive for over 75 years in the United States without ever filing for bankruptcy once.

Sure, they do make mistakes, but again, they're still around, and have never gone bankrupt, unlike all their peers.

Sure, they tick groups off, but what company doesn't?

Sure, they have "abused the trust" of some employees, but their employees are also the only ones left in the industry who have 100% of their pensions active and still being actively-funded, and they're among the highest-paid in the business today.

Sure, you may think they "disservice the communities they serve" (sort of an oxymoron in itself), but there are plenty of people around the country and the world who would disagree with you.


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2926 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 14912 times:



Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 11):
What about Eos, or AI, or even KU? They still count, too

Eos no longer counts. They have ceased operations.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 14859 times:



Quoting AznMadSci (Reply 10):
but it seems that QF and CX do not want to for the sake of being in the OneWorld.

QF were going to start DFW back in 2002-2003. Right now, QF lacks the planes to start DFW. Once QF start getting their B787's, you can be certain DFW will be one of the first cities on the list.

DFW offers great connectivity to many cities in South America as well as other airports such as LGA which can't be done from HNL/LAX/SFO.. no 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21532 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 14730 times:



Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 9):
Have they ever thought about starting an alliance with 2 of the largest carriers in the world before rises in oil prices and mergers started happening?

Yes, they have been in an alliance for years with 2 of the largest carriers in the world: DL and AF/KL.

Now that it seems CO is airlina non-grata in SkyTeam, CO need to look elsewhere. So they want to switch to the other alliance with 2 of the other largest carriers in the world: BA and AA.

Seems like a consistent long term plan, they just want to switch teams?

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 11):
What about Eos, or AI, or even KU? They still count, too. Granted, they don't have multiple daily flights, but it's still more capacity on the route.

Eos is closing shop.

AI and KU are such small factors, it's not that relevant, but they do help CO+AA+BA's case.

And one can only assume that DL will expand to London if they get larger.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 13):
A great question I've been searching for the answer to for quite some time now.

Especially when ATL (busiest airport in the world by number of flights) and CDG (busiest non-USA airport by number of flights) are connected by a monopoly of AF+DL codeshare, but this is seen as okay…



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 14714 times:



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 15):
DFW offers great connectivity to many cities in South America as well as other airports such as LGA which can't be done from HNL/LAX/SFO

Qantas is just about to start flights from Australia to SCL and EZE, so there is no need to go to DFW for those connections. It might be nice to be close enough to LGA and DCA to have DFW as an entry point, but that advantage is just a shorter taxi ride in NY or Washington.

For CX their current North American entry points include LAX, SFO and JFK. Are there any parts of Latin America where DFW or IAH would be better gateways?


User currently offlineSxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 14674 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 16):
Especially when ATL (busiest airport in the world by number of flights) and CDG (busiest non-USA airport by number of flights) are connected by a monopoly of AF+DL codeshare, but this is seen as okay…

The difference is that any carrier could begin ATL-CDG tomorrow.

Both EWR, JFK, LHR and LGW are heavily restricted, making it nearly impossible to support additional competition. Allowing three carriers to support the vast majority of traffic on the route - probably upwards of 75% - would not be ok.


User currently offlineMPDPilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 993 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14648 times:



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 15):
DFW offers great connectivity to many cities in South America as well as other airports such as LGA which can't be done from HNL/LAX/SFO.. 

Are you talking about QF? Cause I doubt someone would fly from SYD to DFW to south america, being that Qantas has both flights and codeshare flights to south america. Santiago and Buenos Aires both offer a fair amount of connections to the central america and northern south america.

On topic: What is it with CO? they go from being in an alliance with DL and NW, but I get the feeling that they want to be on their own. Now they are joining another alliance with another slightly larger carrier. I don't get it. I happen to think that Continental is a great airline and could do wonders for some carrier that is having problems. I don't know maybe I am missing something, it is obviously working cause CO is doing comparably well.



One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3670 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14587 times:



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 15):
QF were going to start DFW back in 2002-2003. Right now, QF lacks the planes to start DFW. Once QF start getting their B787's, you can be certain DFW will be one of the first cities on the list.

DFW offers great connectivity to many cities in South America as well as other airports such as LGA which can't be done from HNL/LAX/SFO..

True, I forgot about QF wanting to start DFW back in the day as well as them receiving their 787s. Again, if we're talking about QF, do they want to to connect to LGA? They do serve JFK via LAX.

Back to the topic ... I just need clarification, and I know it's been addressed (in a confusing manner), but just want the straight facts:
  • Does the DOJ have to approve ATI for CO to form an alliance with AA and BA?
  • As it stands now, what would the alliance entail without ATI? (mainly the ability to codeshare outside their hubs?)
  • Would receiving even tentative ATI approval be a problem because all 3 have significant control of NYC-LON, hence concessions?
  • Other than connections beyond LHR, how will this benefit CO? Why include AA? If CO wants to align with BA, does it have to include AA on this side of the pond?


Sorry for the list. Thanks!



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14574 times:

Is OneWorld the right alliance for CO? If the restrictions on BA/AA are added to CO, then CO would not be able to codeshare on flights where they directly compete against BA - this would include flights from all NY?Newark area airports to all London area airports and flights between London and IAH.

Could CO still join Star without merging with UA? The partner airlines in Star, especially LH could have more to offer CO - FRA and MUC as better connecting points in Europe, and more LH flights to EWR than BA operates. CO and bmi could be good partners at LHR and UK ports. If needed CO could codeshare on UA in the same way that SkyTeam airlines already codeshare on each other.

This is all about dancing partners, and seeing who is together when the music stops.


User currently offlineSKY1 From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 879 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14567 times:

Interesting news!

For me the most important is:

- Talks between CO and UA break off.

- CO doesn't want merger, no at least at this moment.

-CO will review its participation in SkyTeam as they was not part of the group that received antitrust immunity.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 15):
DFW offers great connectivity to many cities in South America

MIA even NYC offer a better connectivity for South America than DFW.

Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 17):
Are there any parts of Latin America where DFW or IAH would be better gateways?

For Latin America, CO has IAH as a great hub, while AA has MIA.

From IAH you can reach many airports in Mexico and Central America, and other in the North of South America such as CLO or GYE.



Time flies! Enjoy life!
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14443 times:



Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 17):
Qantas is just about to start flights from Australia to SCL and EZE, so there is no need to go to DFW for those connections.

Oh, that's right....I forgot about QF serving South America the other way.. crazy ...but DCA and LGA are still two points...Also, DFW will relieve LAX as well.

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 19):
Are you talking about QF? Cause I doubt someone would fly from SYD to DFW to south america, being that Qantas has both flights and codeshare flights to south america. Santiago and Buenos Aires both offer a fair amount of connections to the central america and northern south america.

See above...however, my point about LGA and DCA hold (as well as other East Coast Cities). As well as other connections not attainable by LAX.

Quoting AznMadSci (Reply 20):
do they want to to connect to LGA? They do serve JFK via LAX.

Absolutely, LGA is a great gateway to New York City (up to Mid-Town Manhattan, even Time Square).

Also, DFW-LGA has tons of frequency which would be a good benefit.

Look to see QF starting DFW as one of their top new North American cities.



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineScotron11 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1178 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14381 times:



Quoting Commavia (Reply 3):

I don't know if this deal is going to get regulatory approval without requiring concessions, which I don't think AA or BA will be down for.

Why should AA/BA make concessions now that LHR is basically open to anyone? Pretty much all US carriers are now flying there. DL/NW/AF/KLM have ATI so I don't see why BA/AA shouldn't have it as well.

BTW, if CO did join oneworld, would their stand on US ownership rules change?


25 LAXdude1023 : I think it goes beyond that. More than likely DFW will be QF's next destination in the US. Its more than DFW is AA's largest hub and that SYD is QF's
26 United1 : Yes they could however UA would have to sign off on it, just as they did when US joined.
27 PM : I've been waiting for this. CO has regained NW's golden share and is now a free agent. Within SkyTeam and next to a merged DL/NW they'd be the poor re
28 MasseyBrown : I think LHR open skies would eliminate the DOJ objection. DOJ considers potential as well as actual competition and the ability of four US carriers t
29 IronDuke08 : As far as I'm concerned, even as a US Silver and DL Plat, worldwide, Oneworld is a collection the finest airlines in the world. Their weakest link is
30 WesternA318 : I dont think so, CO stands to gain more from this type of an alliance than being stuck in skyteam and its collection of miscreant airlines. Why not s
31 Alangirvan : Turn the question around. IAH and DFW are CO and AA's hubs. When they have the right aircraft, they could fly to Australia and NZ rather than have th
32 1821 : If that's the case and CO wants an alliance with AA or BA or both then the only way that i can see this happening is if CO joins ONE WORLD and leaves
33 AA1818 : I think the biggest gain for the two carriers would be New York city where they would absolutely dominate. Other than that they would strengthen each
34 Tayser : Here's something from way out of left field... Qantas flying: SYD-DFW Continental flying: MEL-IAH Victoria and Texas are the corporate centres for the
35 WesternA318 : 777-200ER's couldn't do they route, could they? How much range do QF's 744ER's have? Once a week couldn't possibly be enough to satiate demand, espec
36 B707forever : Though I didn't read this entire thread (late for work) I'm not reading the NY Times article this morning saying they definately want in with BA/AA. T
37 EMB170 : Because the argument will be put forth by (most likely) UA and LH that the greatest percentage of TATL passengers fly to, from, or through LHR/LGW. U
38 EMB170 : Don't forget LA already flies and they are a part of OneWorld...
39 MasseyBrown : (As I posted in the wrong thread) I wish Oneworld had a European hub other than LHR - MAD and HEL being too peripheral. AMS is such a gem. I wonder i
40 EXAAUADL : I noticed exactly this during the UA/US merger in 2000. No matter whaht outcome, AA was going to win
41 Mk777 : You never know, 9W might join OW (they want to codeshare with AA and BA) and then their mini BRU hub can become a OW major hub.
42 Avek00 : Beyond getting an affirmative vote from existing alliance members, It depends on the nature of the application for entry. The entry of US into Star A
43 Pixpixpix : Then if SN joined OW there'd be even better intra-Europe and Africa connections.
44 MasseyBrown : According to BRU's website, their traffic is 91% O&D. Somebody should be able to get something going. The intra-Europe flights are in place already.
45 Avek00 : 1. Oneworld has a different focus than SkyTeam ("financial centers" vs. "energy centers"), but CO can operate well in either global alliance. In fact
46 Davescj : I would like to CO go into OW, as they are my prefered domestic carrier and BA for transatlantic. Get BA J, CO points.....what a nice thought! I'd go
47 Bmacleod : Right now AA is alone in Oneworld so CO would be a definite bonus for both AA and Oneworld. Fleetwise AA and CO are very similar exept of course for t
48 ConcordeBoy : OneHeathroWorld may be known for the "quality", however that's defined, of their carriers... but doesn't do much for the consumer, as they lack anyth
49 MaverickM11 : And at the end of the day "quality" means precious little when your corporate contract dictates who you fly and the contract goes to the alliance wit
50 MPDPilot : Thats what I meant when I said Codeshare. On Qantas's website it says code sharing.
51 Sac : BA already flies LHR-EWR as does CO IAH-NRT is only operated by CO
52 WorldTraveler : The DOJ does indeed need to approve antitrust immunity involving 2 US companies. AA/CO could easily get approval for any of their flights that does n
53 Sac : Worldtravel, I cannot believe you wrote something nice about CO and that you did not include the word Delta in it.
54 Yellowtail : With CO..One world would basically control the Atlantic from Europe to S. America. the BA/IB/AA/CO/CM/LA combo would be unbeatable. With major hubs at
55 Avek00 : IAH and DFW have VERY different competitive strengths -- as an example, look at where virtually all of the longhaul growth has been taking place over
56 AirCanada014 : Darn I was hoping CO align with Star Alliance.
57 WorldTraveler : but I think part of that is because CO has established itself for far longer as a complete hub.... AA's int'l flights are largely to LHR which does h
58 LuisKMIA : I hope CO survives the merger mania. For a U.S. international airline, it's definitely one of the best when you compare it to the other major U.S. car
59 CroCop : Who cares if a company files BK, you dont make sense. UA hadn't filed before, and they were around just as long. Who cares, CO had filed twice and th
60 SFOQQAA : Funny! Although I think there is to be a lot of marriage counseling with these marriages... maybe even divorce! Personally, I like the thought of CO
61 777STL : Actually, you're the one not making sense. That's quite possibly one of the most uneducated comments I've read on this website yet. Let's see, during
62 Avek00 : True, though if you think about it, a codeshare/ATI arrangement on CO's *existing* EWR-Europe flights accomplishes much of what BA wants to do with O
63 Post contains images WunalaYann : I think you have a good point but maybe I could put it back into Australian perspective. Once they have traveled up to 16 hours non-stop between MEL/
64 KochamLOT : nobody hurt me for tossing this up but.... why dont CO and AA merge? UAL and USair out of luck, maybe merge. Maybe UAL and Frontier get together with
65 WorldTraveler : but it give BA no incentive to develop those routes on its own. That is precisely why labor does not like these kinds of deals. If you can piggyback
66 HKG212 : Not quite. Overall JFK and EWR have about the same rate of connecting to O&D traffic, roughly 30-70%. For CO you can assume the connecting rate is mu
67 Jacobin777 : I've been on 15+ hour flights before..didn't even know which day it was.. From what I've gathered talking to people as well as reading posts, many wo
68 CroCop : So, CO has become quit the airliners.net darling. They are the preferred carrier among those not spoken for, so really it wasn't really so uneducated
69 BOStonsox : I see two problems with this: 1. Virgin Atlantic- they already codeshare with them, and there really isn't much that BA offers that VS doesn't. CO alr
70 Super80DFW : Possibly not the best words to use in the same sentence.
71 Pixpixpix : DOJ approval would be required for either a merger or alliance between AA and CO. How long would it take, though, for One World as an alliance, to acc
72 Super80DFW : I just doubt that any merger between AA and CO would happen. The Great State of Texas would just too big of a problem for the airline.
73 WunalaYann : Or which planet, for that matter... Starting with yours truly. My latest US destination was in Forrest Hills - LGA would have been even more convenie
74 AznMadSci : Hahaha!! You're considering the slim chances to merge based on NYC competition??? That would be nothing compared to the headache and nightmare in Tex
75 WesternA318 : Who cares a whole lot about the leisure fare pax in the back? Since EOS folded, its been nothing but CO or BA BusinessFirst/First Class across the po
76 HNL-Jack : If CO thought dealing with UA was bad, now they want to get in bed with the Devil. One look at what AA does when it acquires or gets into a relationsh
77 WesternA318 : I think you're seeing too much into this. This isnt a merger or buyout...this just a simple code-share alliance. Granted, RenoAir started out as a co
78 HNL-Jack : Agreed, but so far we don't know what the alliance really calls for. I'm just suggesting that if there is a predator in this business, it's probably
79 WesternA318 : Aside from the tight-asses at AA, I believe wholeheartedly that CO's management (save for Gordon Bethune), is at its best, and most cautious with the
80 Avek00 : I disagree 110%. BA has a far larger TATL operation, and MUCH greater beyond-LHR/LGW connectivity than VS. CO likely realizes that if joining a TATL
81 Luisca : Also if CO were to join OneWorld CM stated they would move alliances with CO so Not only would AA and CO dominate the Latam to US market but also the
82 777STL : It was extremely uneducated, chump. He and yourself obviously don't understand the nuances of bankruptcy, but I digress. I'm not going to sit here an
83 Sketty222 : BRU could be a could case in point because there are still rumours of SN becoming part of OW. This would help to make BRU a hub linking BA, CO, SN an
84 DiscoverCSG : As noted, BA already flies LHR-EWR-LHR 3x daily. Combined with CO, that would 5x - not bad for starters. Well, WorldTraveler didn't include the word
85 Davescj : I believe AA did by them both, am I incorrect? TWA had a hub at STL, and yes, it was slashed brutally as were huge numbers of TWA jobs. Does that mea
86 Avek00 : Dave, It's true that the more I think about it, the more potential *growth* opportunities I see for CO if it joins oneworld and carries on even modest
87 Davescj : Avek, I totally agree. Also, by having 2 OW carriers going NYC metro to London, possible to drop the ban on FF miles that currently exist with AA/BA?
88 WorldTraveler : No. I'm saying that from a regulatory standpoint, if you can operate an immunized alliance (with ATI), you can probably merge. The standards are very
89 EMB170 : Wouldn't necessarily imply that CO would have to go to three-class...look at other OW carriers. LA is 2 class (at least on the 767 fleet) and it isn'
90 BA787 : Will this mean we might see BA in some way or form in the UK regions? Codeshares on all of CO's t'atl UK services could be a good thing But seriously,
91 Ikramerica : BA is two class on some aircraft (well, no F). AA is 2-class on every plane but the 777. JL is two-class on many aircraft. CX as well. Now, it would
92 AAJFKSJUBKLYN : AA is also 3 class on the 762 (transcons)
93 Sketty222 : That would be a big fat.... no they're not. The only aircraft BA are two class on are their European flights. All longhaul flights with no F class al
94 Mir : The passengers who would fly first over business already have pretty much all the routes they'd need by virtue of the other oneworld carriers. I doub
95 CroCop : In what way? I would take a UA 777 business any day over a two class plane. In what way are they competitive? service, food?
96 777STL : Indeed. Especially considering AA operates a fair number of international routes on two class aircraft as well. Lack of an F isn't a deal breaker.
97 EWRCabincrew : You mean that middle seat? UA has a 2-3-2 J/C configuration on its 777s. Ours are 2-2-2. Never a middle seat. We are very competitive with our busine
98 Post contains links CO777DAL : Fort Worth Star Telegram implies CO will get kicked out of Skyteam, and that is why they are looking at AA for an Alliance. http://www.star-telegram.c
99 StarAlliance38 : I doubt it. Remember the NW/KLM alliance back in 1997, I think? Well, when Skyteam member AF bought KL, NW was dragged into SkyTeam: And so was CO. Wh
100 Sketty222 : Yeah, but I bet you would take a CO flight on BA CW over UA. If CO were to merge / affiliate / codeshare with BA/AA then their customers will have an
101 United1 : Na.... Airbus has a new float package coming out for the A380, havent you heard? I don't see SkyTeam just outright kicking CO out however I can see t
102 Ikramerica : What does joining BA/AA do to CO's codeshares with VS? I assume they go buy buy. To a certain degree, right now you have DL+CO+VS on one side of NYC-L
103 CrAAzy : Sorry all - I still can see how an alliance with CO would be of any benefit to AA/BA or Oneworld, especially with MX coming into the alliance. How cou
104 Ikramerica : If NW/DL/KL/AF passes ATI, anything can. That's a monster that controls many markets…
105 Avek00 : It is expected that AA/BA will have a MUCH easier time getting ATI approval this time around, as Open Skies has come to pass, and the new entrant car
106 WorldTraveler : There are probably contracts that stipulate CO can't be kicked out. But that doesn't mean it will be disadvantaged in competing against DL/NW and AF/
107 DiscoverCSG : I heard it was a "float and ski" package. This could easily solve NYC congestion - just designate water runways next to 13/31 at LGA and 13R/31L at J
108 Sac : That was part of the "hard block" code share agreement with VS. It was great since Continental purchased and resold sold the seat as their own. Which
109 Avek00 : On transoceanic flying, CO is no "friend" to any SkyTeam member, as it must and does compete vigorously against the SkyTeam members just like it does
110 777gk : Having been through a few, I tend to disagree. Integration and seniority issues are always, always, always problematic. A codeshare arrangement avoid
111 VV701 : Here is the wording of a very short BA press release issued earlier today: "British Airways is exploring opportunities for co-operation with American
112 WesternA318 : By the time the remnants of TWA were digested by AA, many of our TATL flying was discontinued, save STL/JFK-LGW, STL/JFK-CDG, JFK-CAI-Riyadh, and JFK
113 Commavia : TW wasn't flying JFK-LGW, and STL-CDG was reduced to seasonal.
114 WesternA318 : My bad, than it was just from STL.
115 AJMIA : I don't believe any of the TWA transatlantic routes are left. I was under the impression that that was going to be changing soon now that LHR is open
116 WorldTraveler : which was precisely my point from the beginning. But CO will be even more of a threat when it works together with other, larger airlines. No doubt bu
117 Post contains links Sketty222 : Update from Travelmole: BA plans 'cooperation' with American and Continental British Airways has issued a statement saying it is “exploring opportun
118 Trekster : Im very much looking forward to seeing what happens with these talks. Dan
119 EMB170 : JFK MXP is, but then that just started...
120 777STL : I'm taking everything I read now with a grain of salt. BA taking over AA would have some significant regulatory hurdles to overcome - something that
121 NorCal : What does TATL mean?
122 Avek00 : I don't think AA and BA would waste their time with a merger anytime soon.
123 EMB170 : TATL= TransATLantic
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