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What Should LH Do With United?  
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 24
Posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9351 times:

Considering the bad press United got throughout the last months,what option does LH have in the United States ?
United,Lufthansa and Singapore Airlines build the core of STAR alliance - two of them have excellent ratings while United have mediocre ratings.
LH have an investment in Jetblue but can't realy use them as STAR partner for US dometic operations-they are rather a Low Cost carrier .Would an investment of LH in United and a seat in the board change things ?


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
63 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4071 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9312 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
Considering the bad press United got throughout the last months,what option does LH have in the United States ?
United,Lufthansa and Singapore Airlines build the core of STAR alliance - two of them have excellent ratings while United have mediocre ratings.
LH have an investment in Jetblue but can't realy use them as STAR partner for US dometic operations-they are rather a Low Cost carrier .Would an investment of LH in United and a seat in the board change things ?

That said, what about AC? They likewise are stuck in a an alliance where their two North American partners, UA & HP+US respectively suck. As for LH, perhaps it is time for they and SQ to bail and defect to SkyTeam. Who knows AC might join them!  biggrin  AC is the only shinning "Star" in North America in that alliance.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8373 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9289 times:
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WHY would SKYTEAM want LH and SQ when in Europe they already have AF-KLM ? DL-NW-AF-KLM makes SKYTEAM coverage complete on both sides of teh Atlantic. SQ being, SQ would be welcome to any alliance, ONEWORLD would welcome them with open arms. Cathay, JAL, Qantas & SQ would make a great Pacific porfolio for ONEWORLD.

User currently offlineNaritaflyer From Japan, joined Apr 2006, 549 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9266 times:

United needs to go. It's a terrible airline to fly. The best scenario is for United to go bankrupt to start new again. With new management and new employees.

User currently offlineAgentXE1225 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 166 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9245 times:

One would think that an agreement between LH and CO would be smart for both carriers.

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11641 posts, RR: 61
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9212 times:

It's a tough question - and a tough problem for not just Lufthansa, but the entire Star Alliance.

Both of the alliance's U.S. carriers - United and USAirways - are doing, well, "less than stellar" at the moment - with many customers, employees and shareholders of both companies become disillusioned with the direction (or lack thereof) that both companies are headed in.

The problem Star faces is that they have no real alternative at this point, since all the other major U.S. network airlines are already taken by other alliances, and because United and USAirways both have networks that have extremely strong and valuable aspects to them. All of United's hubs are excellent, and some of USAirways' are strong as well.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 9199 times:



Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 3):
United needs to go. It's a terrible airline to fly. The best scenario is for United to go bankrupt to start new again. With new management and new employees.

...given there is a possibility of UA merging with US, who knows what will happen..

"AP source: United, US Airways in 'very advanced' combo talks
Monday April 28, 11:17 am ET
By Dave Carpenter, AP Business Writer
Person close to negotiations tells AP that United, US Airways in 'very advanced' combo talks"

full article at..

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080428/united_us_airways.html

That being said, LH-UA do quite well on their revenue-sharing over the Atlantic.



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9161 times:

It's too bad CO isn't pursuing an alliance with UA/US (rather than AA/BA) - CO has always been the step-child of SkyTeam, and DL's pursuit of the NYC market has been a thorn to CO's operations out of EWR.

With AA/BA, CO adds to the NYC market alliance - just how many NYC-LON flights would that be per day on just them? - but AA and CO will still be competing JFK vs EWR...AND there's now an alliance between the two strongest competitors for Latin America, while neither is very strong in Asia markets.

I think it says something about the way UA and US are being run right now that CO would rather bypass what could be a very profitable alliance for another mediocre step-child relationship with better run airlines...  scratchchin 



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User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4106 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9123 times:

I wasn't aware LH was unhappy with UA?

User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5961 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9123 times:



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 7):
I think it says something about the way UA and US are being run right now that CO would rather bypass what could be a very profitable alliance for another mediocre step-child relationship with better run airlines...

Just realise that UA would have to approve COs entry into Star... something tells me that CO burned those bridges with UA for a while.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineBigOrange From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2365 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9082 times:

They should just get rid of United and US Air and bring CO in (not that CO is much better!)

User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9052 times:

I think there is a misconception here that LH has a problem with UA...........nothing could be farther from the truth, this is just A.Net Bulls### once again. LH and UA have a very extensive and succesfull revenue sharing JV over the Atlantic which the likes of AA/BA for instance can only dream about.
The only thing LH needs to do with UA is tightend their relationship if thats possible at the moment, not loosen it. Jeez, enough already!


User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9049 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
United,Lufthansa and Singapore Airlines build the core of STAR alliance

I wouldn't consider SQ as part of the core of anything, to be honest. Heck, it saw Star Alliance as some of a temporary arrangement to begin with, until it could build a global alliance of its own.

Quoting United1 (Reply 9):
Just realise that UA would have to approve COs entry into Star... something tells me that CO burned those bridges with UA for a while.

It's hard to say. The airline busniess is very ego-driven, but at the same time, if United saw more benefit to an alliance with CO (and vice versa), they can drop US from the codeshare (and consequently kick US out of Star) and seek to bring CO into the fold.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9009 times:



Quoting Avek00 (Reply 12):
I wouldn't consider SQ as part of the core of anything, to be honest. Heck, it saw Star Alliance as some of a temporary arrangement to begin with, until it could build a global alliance of its own.

Those days are gone-SQ are a valuable and solid partner within STAR and certainly have abandoned the idea to start from scratch anything else.
I don't say that the revenue sharing between LH and UA doesn't work-it's just that the perceived idea in Europe for United as quality carriers has been affected.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5961 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 8964 times:



Quoting Avek00 (Reply 12):
I wouldn't consider SQ as part of the core of anything, to be honest.

If CO is the red-headed Step child of SkyTeam then SQ is that in Star, they're a great asset to Star but they've never really integrated into the alliance.

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
Singapore Airlines build the core of STAR alliance

Star was up and running for three years before SQ joined Star, LH&UA are the linchpins in Star both need to exist for the alliance to really function properly.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 8951 times:



Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 11):
I think there is a misconception here that LH has a problem with UA...........nothing could be farther from the truth, this is just A.Net Bulls### once again. LH and UA have a very extensive and succesfull revenue sharing JV over the Atlantic which the likes of AA/BA for instance can only dream about.

agree 100%.......


User currently offlineCtermua From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 8855 times:



Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 3):
United needs to go. It's a terrible airline to fly. The best scenario is for United to go bankrupt to start new again. With new management and new employees.

Another brilliant Anet solution to a complex problem. Oh, and if it's such a terrible airline to fly....FLY SOMEONE ELSE!!


User currently offlineCaspritz78 From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 518 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 8655 times:

The LH/UA cooperation is probably the core of *A. The North Atlantic routes are still the busiest and most important routes world wide. So LH will make sure UA stays in *A and will intensify the cooperation. LHs interest in Jetblue is not such a big problem for UA since JFK is not really a stronghold of UA. About CO as an alternative. I don't know. CO hubs are EWR and IAH. EWR is easy to reach from Europe but IAH? UAs hubs with IAD and ORD are way more convenient located with IAD on the East Coast and ORD pretty much up North.

User currently offlineYamatthey From Switzerland, joined Aug 2005, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 8536 times:



Quoting United1 (Reply 9):
Just realise that UA would have to approve COs entry into Star... something tells me that CO burned those bridges with UA for a while.

 checkmark 

Out of 20 members, United, USAirways, Lufthansa, Swiss, SAS Scandinavian and maybe Air Canada will never approve Continental to become member of Star Alliance! Continental competes directly with too many Star members.

Can you imagine Continental making concessions, like dropping Geneva or Zurich flight to have a reduced amount of competition with Swiss? I don't!

I bet you, Continental will not joint Star Alliance, the only solution now is oneworld.

Lufthansa will certainly invest into the new United after merge with USAirways.

Maybe JetBlue will joint Star as a Regional member like Adria, Blue1 and Croatia Airlines.


User currently offlineMultimark From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 796 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8263 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
...United,Lufthansa and Singapore Airlines build the core of STAR alliance...

Air Canada was also a founding member of Star Alliance.


User currently offlineCaspritz78 From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 518 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8204 times:



Quoting Multimark (Reply 19):
Air Canada was also a founding member of Star Alliance.

Sure about this? Before Air Canada became *A member their rival Canadian was *A member. I know Air Canada bought Canadian but this doesn't make Air Canada a founding member.


User currently offlinePHX Flyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 551 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8178 times:



Quoting Caspritz78 (Reply 17):
Lufthansa will certainly invest into the new United after merge with USAirways.

I wouldn't bank on that. If they wanted that, they could have provided exit financing at the time when UAL was in chapter 11, and in turn influence the outcome of the restructuring. Alas, LH didn't. Me thinks that Lufthansa is happy with United as long as they can sustain themselves. If United fails, Lufhansa would turn elsewhere - most likely to American.


User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 8170 times:



Quoting Caspritz78 (Reply 20):

Totally incorrect. Canadian had nothing to do with Star. They had close links with AA and BA. AC was a founding member of Star.


User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5961 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 8164 times:

Cut and paste from wiki...

1997 --- The alliance is founded by Air Canada, Lufthansa, Scandinavian Airlines System, Thai Airways International, and United Airlines. Varig joins the alliance.
1999 --- Ansett Australia, All Nippon Airways, and Air New Zealand become members.
2000 --- Singapore Airlines, BMI, Mexicana, and the Austrian Airlines Group, comprising Austrian Airlines, Tyrolean Airways, and Lauda Air join the alliance.
2001 --- Ansett Australia folds under bankruptcy.
2003 --- Asiana Airlines, LOT Polish Airlines, and Spanair join.
2004 --- US Airways joins the alliance. Mexicana's membership ends. Adria Airways, Croatia Airlines, Blue1 inaugurate the alliance's regional network.
2005 --- TAP Portugal joins the alliance. After merging with US Airways under the US Airways name, America West Airlines joins working through US Airways original membership.
2006 --- Swiss International Air Lines and South African Airways join the alliance.
2007 --- Varig is ejected from the alliance on January 31. Air China and Shanghai Airlines join the alliance on December 12.
2008 --- Turkish Airlines joined on April 1 and became the 20th Member.
2009 --- EgyptAir and Air India are expected to join on 1 February 2009.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineYamatthey From Switzerland, joined Aug 2005, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 8102 times:



Quoting Caspritz78 (Reply 20):
Sure about this? Before Air Canada became *A member their rival Canadian was *A member. I know Air Canada bought Canadian but this doesn't make Air Canada a founding member.

Air Canada was a founding member of Star Alliance. Canadian Airlines was a member of oneworld.


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25 Iloveboeing : Well, I don't know about the employees, but new management is needed. I think if the employees were treated better, things would work out. UA should
26 United1 : I'm all for that however..... However not being able to raise fares enough, their working on it but US carriers are not quite there yet, to cover the
27 Caspritz78 : I made a mistake. Still somehow I think that there was a connecting between Lufthansa and Canadian Airlines before the founding of oneworld and *A. C
28 Aircanada014 : CP and LH were once partners along with CP and AF way before Star Alliance was born. CP ended their partnership with LH and joined with BA and AA. al
29 Eastern747 : LH should bring all their training personnel over and whip the nasty UA employees into shape. Everyone in customer service should be retrained and if
30 Iflyac : Canadian was such an awesome airline. I wish they had survived.
31 MrBrightSide : Somehow I personally feel that UA/US JV will get a 25% stakeholder in the shape of LH. And a lot of outsourced maintenance will go to LH in process,
32 DC8FanJet : Amen... LH and UA are very,very close. There isn't any chance of United being "dropped" from an alliance they founded. Too many people on A-net simpl
33 MrBrightSide : Actually, member rankings or something like that would be beneficial. There are so many things here that are.. well... quite weird. Typical internet
34 Airborne1 : You guys talk a lot of crap! LH and US are strong together. Stop blaming it on the employees... Blame it on poor Management. The employees are doing a
35 Malaysia : Yes and pretty sad since they were One World and a great airline of Canada. I always try to stick on One World for my revenue tickets
36 HNL-Jack : We always seem to be comparing various international carriers international product with UA domestic. In many instances, in Europe and in Asia, the d
37 Lufthansa : Brightside What you are experiencing is the frustration most thinking people have with the public in general. further limiting the forum wouldn't solv
38 Hiflyer : Quite true...some are trolls
39 Boston92 : Exactly. United probably has the largest number of loyal customers. United does seem to favor their frequent fliers much more than the average joe. I
40 Burkhard : We Europeans have the perceived idea that no US legacy carrier qualifies as "quality carrier" . CO qualifies as average, the rest we experience to be
41 AndyEastMids : I don't know what the fuss is about... I've travelled regularly on both UA and LH short and long haul, and if I'm travelling coach, where there's a ch
42 Icelandair : What makes you speak for all Europeans?? I'm one and I had quite nice flights on UA, AA, CO and -yes beware- even US. Esp. with UA and CO I've always
43 Avek00 : [ Those who believe this are simply dead wrong.
44 JoFMO : Maybe you are right, but I think it is a common perception in Europe. In general I would say there are 4 classes f airlines in the mindset of Europea
45 EMB170 : Actually that's not correct. CP did have a codeshare/FF relationship with LH but so did AY and as circles began to get drawn and wagons got circled,
46 764 : Alright, I complain about United a lot. Especially about their creative ways of inventing new fees and charges. But they do have some assets that make
47 Zone1 : When it comes to J seats widely deployed, honestly NW has the best of any US airline. No one mentions that NW has had lie flat seats for years. Peopl
48 Jfk777 : Lufthansa can't replicate UA's Wshington-Dulles hub on the east coast, ORD, LAX & SFO on the west coast so have no realistic option to replace UA. DL/
49 UAL777UK : Err, hate to tell you this but they don't have lie flat seats, thats why its not mentioned! They do not convert into a fully flat seat, unlike UA's n
50 Avek00 : Well, the folks who believe that are mistaken. Among other things, those generalities makes no distinction between SQ and MU, LH and OK, or CO and US
51 CroCop : That my friend is a matter of opinon. This a stupid response. domestically UA is average, internationally they are among the best,imo.
52 777fan : Not to be confused with "super-duper" advanced talks. Ugh...UA's potential dance partner went from the prom queen (CO) to the trailer queen (US). Whi
53 CroCop : I wish that would have happened, instead here UA is now talking to US? that makes me sick.
54 United1 : The fleets are not that far apart, actually inside of about 3 years or so they could be made virtualy seamless. If anything from a fleet perspective
55 AirNZ : Are they, and/or from whose point of view? How can they be 'simply dead wrong' or 'mistaken' if that is an opinion, and not a statement. Likewise, wh
56 Dc-9-10 : CO would do less good for LH then UA does currently. LH currently is able to spread out the connecting to UA traffic among IAD, ORD, DEN, and SFO all
57 777fan : Hmmm, what about US's 762s, A330s and A340s (on order?)? Assuming that both carriers' 737s were dumped, you'd still have a mess: 744, 752, 762, 763,
58 United1 : Actually it could end up being something like this... 744 International 772 International (Reconfigure the 6 772s used for Hawaii runs to 3-class Int
59 Avek00 : The opinions are wrong because they arbitrarily select a small handful of carriers as misleading representations of the airlines of a particular regi
60 Multimark : As other have mentioned, Canadi>n was a Oneworld member, which is one of the reasons Oneworld is headquartered in YVR, despite not having a member ai
61 MrBrightSide : Actually, whole union thing in Western Europe and US only reminds me of "Mother Russia"... from Communist time... whole thing that you're advancing t
62 HPAEAA : Simple Point that I would make is this: Any US carrier is inferior in service standards compared to the established Non-US Flag carriers, really, it r
63 CroCop : And leaving the USair(east) pilots the Achilles heel of the deal. They will be the problem group in my opinion.
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