Pilot21 From Ireland, joined Oct 1999, 1378 posts, RR: 2 Posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11761 times:
Airbus SAS, the world's biggest
manufacturer of commercial aircraft, is reviewing whether it can
meet a pledge to deliver 13 A380 planes this year, Dow Jones
reported, citing Chief Executive Officer Tom Enders.
The company is engaged in a ''battle'' to meet its schedule
to build the A380 model, the newswire cited Enders as telling
reporters in Dubai today.
The ''review'' mentioned by Enders was something that had
been planned as Airbus moved to the second phase of the 525-seat
A380's serial production, Stefan Schaffrath, a spokesman at the
Toulouse, France-based planemaker, said when contacted to comment
on the Dow Jones story.
Singapore Airlines Ltd., the only carrier currently
operating the A380, has received four of the planes, with the
most recent delivery on April 27. Dubai-based Emirates, the
largest Arab airline, is scheduled to get its first A380 in the
third quarter of this year.
I thought things were going quite well with the re-wiring situation! Airbus can not afford to disappointing Qantas or EK with reduced deliveries for this year, if anything SQ maybe not get their 6th model, anybody with Airbus contacts have more information?
RedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2053 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11695 times:
Airbus has stated in the past that meeting the goal of 13 deliveries of the Superjumbo this year is a "challenge." When you've got to manually install wires in more than 20 airplanes, it's not surprising.
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21043 posts, RR: 60 Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11685 times:
Quoting Pilot21 (Thread starter): if anything SQ maybe not get their 6th model, anybody with Airbus contacts have more information?
If SQ's plane is ready, it's ready. You can't just give it to EK or QF, so the answer is that they will do everything they can to get 13 into the hands of customers, but it's highly unlikely that SQ won't get it's 6th…
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Scouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3267 posts, RR: 10 Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11645 times:
Well from the schedule leaked on here before Christmas, they've hit the expected delivery dates so far this year so fingers crossed.
IIRC - EK will be getting their first two at the same time and QF 3 in one go - maybe that's what's causing the stress?
Scouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3267 posts, RR: 10 Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11509 times:
Quoting Gorgos (Reply 4): When will is the first normally wired and produced A380 planned to go to its new owner?
That's MSN026 whichhas been built ahead of sequnce and will go to QF before the end of this year - they will however still be delivering some rewired planes well into next year
Scouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3267 posts, RR: 10 Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11214 times:
Quoting TaromA380 (Reply 6): It's me or that article just doesn't say anything ?
It doesn't say anything new - this "challenge" has been talked about by airbus for a while but they do appear to be doing ok now.
NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5220 posts, RR: 49 Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11215 times:
Well Tom Enders is pointing to ramp up as the source of the possible delays so it doesn't sound like wiring this time but getting suppliers (both internal and external) to up their production rates.
N1786b From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 555 posts, RR: 18 Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11218 times:
Quoting Pilot21 (Thread starter): I thought things were going quite well with the re-wiring situation!
According to FI, they were 3 months late at power on for the redesigned wiring.
First A380 with redesigned wiring harnesses poised for power-on
By Max Kingsley-Jones
March 26 2008
The first Airbus A380 assembled with redesigned electrical harnesses is expected to reach the power-on milestone next week, but the airframer concedes that the build effort has taken longer than planned as it did not want to endure a repeat of the production problems suffered in 2006. This aircraft had originally been due to reach the power-on milestone by the end of last year, but this is now expected by "the middle of next week", says A380 FAL chief Jean-Claude Schoepf.
"Clearly this is late compared with our original plan, but we didn't want a repeat of the 'Wave 1' [harness] story," he says.
.......
Quoting TaromA380 (Reply 6): It's me or that article just doesn't say anything ?
Ask yourself what your reaction would be if this article was about Boeing and the 787.
Airbus says it is confident in meeting its revised delivery schedule, yet power-on is three months late and Enders is talking about a serious review. We all knew that it is a challenge. He is pretty candid about the challenges the schedule presents and this is the first time we have heard from him about possible delays. He also talks about their dependence on suppliers in order to meet their targets. Is there anything extremely new? Not really except some quotes from Enders.
Astuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9261 posts, RR: 96 Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11107 times:
Quoting N1786b (Reply 9): Airbus says it is confident in meeting its revised delivery schedule, yet power-on is three months late and Enders is talking about a review
Quote: The ''review'' mentioned by Enders was something that had
been planned as Airbus moved to the second phase of the 525-seat
A380's serial production
It would appear that this review is part of a plan, and would happen whatever condition the programme is in
Quoting N1786b (Reply 9): He is pretty candid about the challenges the schedule presents and this is the first time we have heard from him about possible delays
Except the article only really talks about a review that was going to be held anyway, which IMO neither hints at any possible delays, or hints at any lack of them. It is just what it is - a planned review.
Scouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3267 posts, RR: 10 Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11087 times:
Well I guess that this could well be due to MSN026 being 3 months late to power on so that will clearly be late to QF but if they're doing better with the re-wired frames they may yet still get 13 delivered this year.
My thoughts about early delivery is driven by the fact that the first one for EK has started testing and is not due to be delivered until June whilst MSN008 had its first post-installation test flight on the 8th of April (I think) and is already in the hands of the airline.
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21043 posts, RR: 60 Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10796 times:
Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 11): My thoughts about early delivery is driven by the fact that the first one for EK has started testing and is not due to be delivered until June whilst MSN008 had its first post-installation test flight on the 8th of April (I think) and is already in the hands of the airline.
But I think there is a slight difference. Delivering the 4th bird to an airline means that Airbus and the airline already are well aware of all that needs testing on the configuration (interior, engines, balance, etc.). But the first frame for an airline means a configuration that has never flown before, and in EK's case, it's different cabin and different engines. Testing of the first frame likely takes longer.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
N14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2343 posts, RR: 25 Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10549 times:
Let's break it down. These are the 13 A380s to be delivered this year:
Nr.- MSN - Client - current location - planned delivery
1.) MSN 005 - SQ - delivered as scheduled
2.) MSN 006 - SQ - delivered as scheduled
3.) MSN 008 - SQ - delivered as scheduled
4.) MSN 010 - SQ - XFW - June 2008
5.) MSN 011 - EK - XFW, flightline - July 2008
6.) MSN 012 - SQ - XFW - July 2008
7.) MSN 013 - EK - XFW - September 2008
8.) MSN 014 - QF - XFW - August 2008
9.) MSN 015 - QF - TLS, flightline - October 2008
10.) MSN 016 - EK - TLS, flightline - October 2008
11.) MSN 017 - EK - TLS, November 2008
12.) MSN 022 - QF - TLS, November 2008
13.) MSN 026 - QF - TLS, December 2008, see article linked above
MSN 014 arrived in XFW end of January 2008 and is supposed to be delivered to QF in August 2008 => 6 months from transfer to XFW until delivery (unfortunately all A380s that have been delivered so far have been rewired in XFW. So we cannot compare how long it takes in reality. This will be only possible for MSN 010, which arrived in XFW in January 2008). This would mean that all MSN that have to be delivered until December 2008 would have to make their first flights and the transfer to XFW until May or June 2008. This seems to be the case for MSN 015 and 016 and maybe 026. But for the remaining MSN 017 and MSN 022?
I said it in another thread: I don't have doubts about the SQ A380's. All of them have been transferred to XFW, the last one in February 2008. I have doubts about MSN 022 and MSN 017. I think they will be able to deliver 11 units this year but I would be happy to be wrong about this.
What is for sure is that all Airbus employers working on these deliveries can forget about their christmas holidays...
474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9 Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 10265 times:
Quoting RedChili (Reply 1): Airbus has stated in the past that meeting the goal of 13 deliveries of the Superjumbo this year is a "challenge." When you've got to manually install wires in more than 20 airplanes, it's not surprising.
How else would wiring be installed other than manually?
Ken777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7529 posts, RR: 5 Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9877 times:
Airbus is going to be working hard to get E & QF their 380s as soon as possible. For QF the need for the Dec/Jan holiday period is critical and I'm sure they are pushing Airbus to cover them. Also, neither EK nor QF will be happy that SQ has the 380 all to themselves these days.
The simple fact is that both A & B are facing "challenges" with new planes. Both will get them to customers as soon as they can and both will reach a "normal" production rate at some point in the future. Personally I want to fly on both the 380 and 787 one day.
Rbgso From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 576 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9662 times:
This just demonstrates how incredibly complex these airliners are to build. Advancements in manufacturing methodology are offset by more stringent design demands. I'm often times amazed these thing get off the ground. And I am of the opinion that this is one area were you simply cannot throw more engineers at the problem to solve it quickly. Often times it takes longer to explain in detail the problem than it does to solve it.
My hat is off to those folks who designed and built jetliners in the 60s with slide rulers and drafting desks. What amazing marvels these birds are.
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21043 posts, RR: 60 Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8109 times:
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 15): The simple fact is that both A & B are facing "challenges" with new planes.
And I think the airlines are starting to lose faith in the airframe companies to deliver any new product on time. This means the airlines can't plan for the future as easily, but it also means that existing models like A330s and 777s will continue to sell because the airlines are pretty damn sure that Boeing and Airbus can deliver these planes and even ramp up production should they need to.
LAN ordering those 767s seems pretty smart right now, too… And JL and NH still taking delivery of 767s rather than converting them to 787 orders… well, they may never get the 787-3, so those 767s are damn useful all of a sudden! It seemed silly to take 767s after the 787s were going to be in service, but it's 2008, and the 787 hasn't even flown yet, but JL and NH have 7 more 763ERs to take delivery of to tide them over.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
MrBrightSide From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 202 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7910 times:
Quoting 474218 (Reply 14):
Quoting RedChili (Reply 1):
Airbus has stated in the past that meeting the goal of 13 deliveries of the Superjumbo this year is a "challenge." When you've got to manually install wires in more than 20 airplanes, it's not surprising.
How else would wiring be installed other than manually?
The author probably meant to say "manually re-wire more than 20 planes"...
There's no better way to travel than fly (shameless rip of LH's slogan ;-)
Ruscoe From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1415 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7793 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 12): But the first frame for an airline means a configuration that has never flown before, and in EK's case, it's different cabin and different engines. Testing of the first frame likely takes longer.
This is what I am thinking.
Since each craft is being individually rewired and certified up to 26, then it makes sense that SQ will have subsequent planes to the first quite rapidly, because they are presumabley wired the same.
Any other airline getting first craft up to 26 will have to be individually certified, but once done should also be able to have subsequent aircraft more quickly.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11742 posts, RR: 51 Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7582 times:
Quoting N1786b (Reply 9): He also talks about their dependence on suppliers in order to meet their targets.
Quoting N1786b (Reply 9): Ask yourself what your reaction would be if this article was about Boeing and the 787.
Quoting N1786b (Reply 9): According to FI, they were 3 months late at power on for the redesigned wiring.
It seems both A & B bit off a little more than they can crew with the A-380 and B-787 programs.
Ruscoe From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1415 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6933 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 20): It seems both A & B bit off a little more than they can crew with the A-380 and B-787 programs.
I think what will happen in future is that they will just add time to the development cycle.
With the 380 Airbus ran into a problem, which delayed a program, but the program timeline was probably realistic nevertheless.
My feeling is that Boeing could have never built the 787 in the original time frame. You can't build an airplane with so much new technology and with a new means of production, without realistically expecting delays. Boeing should have built in some more room for these delays into the original program, but they were being heavily threatened, in a Commercial sense, by the success of Airbus, and needed to act decisively and quickly, and that they certainly did.
Poor old Qantas is copping delays from both manufacturers and it will be killing them to see Singapore flying four when they have not got any yet, and the prospect of further delays.
MrBrightSide From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 202 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 6659 times:
Quoting 474218 (Reply 21):
Quoting MrBrightSide (Reply 18):
The author probably meant to say "manually re-wire more than 20 planes"...
I don't try and guess at what the author meant, I just read what they wrote.
Ah... the everlasting rule of newsgroups... when you don't have anything to say, criticize a person for not being clear enough. I wonder when will "stop posting in HTML" start... ah right, this is internet forum
But yeah, planes are being re-wired. Wired, re-wired... who cares about difference in words... those two words speak nothing of tremendous effort that workers are putting in making those planes, regardless of them being Airbuses, Boeings, Embraers, Bombardiers, Cessnas... and all other plane manufacturers. Special kudos to B74/77 and A34/38 engineers...
There's no better way to travel than fly (shameless rip of LH's slogan ;-)
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21043 posts, RR: 60 Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 6507 times:
Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 22): With the 380 Airbus ran into a problem, which delayed a program, but the program timeline was probably realistic nevertheless.
Until Airbus actually ramps up production to the rate they promised, we can't know this. The "factory fresh" A380s being a few months late doesn't bode well for that schedule either.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
25 Art: Airbus failed to do the possible; Boeing failed to do the impossible. Concerning the ramp up to 25 in 2009 and 45 in 2010, it's not quite a normal si
26 Astuteman: Which is what Airbus have done with the A350-XWB...... Regards
27 Ty134A: Well this is then a nice move from Boeing towards its customers, promising a product in a certain time frame knowing they will not make it, which har
28 Astuteman: Correct IMO Art. If they hadn't screwed up a simple IT interface, I see no reason why the entire programme wouldn't have gone pretty much on-time.. R
29 Art: I share your view. On time delivery was possible.
30 N1786b: Not really, it was what they were forced to do after customers rejected what they were offering and told them to go back to the drawing board..... -
31 FlyASAGuy2005: Are they? I guess they did have the most deliveries for FY07
32 Art: IIRC the XWB was announced during the Farnborough air show 2006 (as predicted by I know who on a.net) and industrial launch was autumn 2006. That all
33 Astuteman: Not really. A Launch of mid-2006 for the A350-XWB to an EIS of mid 2013 is a good 7 years - which when compared to the 4 years for this same period f
34 Bramble: I'm sure the Boeing will be able to reclaim this title in a few months,depending on deliveries,then Airbus will get it back again ad nauseum. This is
35 Scbriml: First deliveries for A350XWB are in 2013. IIRC, the schedule is as follows: -900 in 2013, -800 in 2014, -1000 in 2015.
36 Scouseflyer: It'll sound like I'm splitting hairs but they started on MSN026 (the first factory-fresh A380) early out out of sequence to try and sort out the proc
37 Zvezda: I presume the remainder of SQ's first tranche, 9V-SKG through 9V-SKJ, are scheduled for delivery in 2009. Assuming Airbus are able to ramp production
39 Bruin787: I was told yesterday that the date that QF had set for their first revenue flight to LAX will not be met. I'm speculating that Airbus has already inf
40 Ikramerica: That's good to hear. When production ramps up, the convoys should speed up too (or get larger?) so that's something to look for.
41 Gokmengs: Can someone shed light on when(probably sometime in 09) will this re-wiring stuff end for good, and Airbus will just return to the planned delivery sc
42 Aircellist: Convoys flying along? The site http://www.igg.fr/ says there is no convoys planned right now... How many days in advance are those convoys announced,
43 EK156: EK said they are confident they will receive 4 - A 380s this year. Does that mean they know the 5th will be delayed? Which means the whole line will b
44 Ikramerica: They might be able to do it with 5 if it wasn't an A380 daily on one or more of the routes. Like an A345 on Saturday for JFK on one and Wednesday for
45 EmiratesUK: They will need 2 for JFK and 1 for LHR so if 4 get delivered by year end that leaves on spare which will probably do asia runs or crew training until
46 KC135TopBoom: Maybe they learned something from the stillborn A-350 Mk. 1, Mk. 2, Mk. 3, Mk.4, Mk. 5, & Mk. 6 versions? The A-350XWB may very well have an unrealis
47 Scouseflyer: Not that far in advance at the moment, I was going from the number of stories of deliveries of convoys that there've been recently on flight-blogger
48 MrBrightSide: Simple IT interface? Several thousand engineers working on different versions of software that were incompatible with each other is not simple interf
49 Zvezda: I think Astuteman's point was that it would have been simple to use the same version of CATIA all around, but Airbus screwed it up by using different
50 Asiaflyer: HONDA!! Jenson Button won the Hungarian GP.
51 NAV20: Gokmengs, the proposed schedule is currently unchanged from the one stated after the A380 delay was announced:- [i]"Speaking at a company site in the
52 Gokmengs: A rare thank you from me to you Nav20, much appreciated
53 Ikramerica: Well, doing the math, if there are 25 re-wired planes, all to be delivered before 2010, that means that of the 39 scheduled to be delivered before 201
54 N14AZ: What was the highest production rate Boeing ever achieved for the B 747? Just to have an idea.
55 Ikramerica: They delivered 92 in 1970, but many of them were built from 1968 on. They actually ramped up VERY quickly and were doing 5 per month, but then a reces
56 Ikramerica: At the end of 1971, Boeing had a 747 backlog lower than their production rate. That's not a good thing for a new model. This is what Airbus is trying
57 NAV20: Cheers Gokmengs. Found the possible solution to the sea-transport thing. This records a 2006 deal whereby a couple of charter firms will provide/oper
58 Astuteman: I work on an equally complex programme that has the same types of interface and we didn't screw it up... And yes. Would you believe, we are forced to
59 NAV20: See further information in #57 above, Astuteman. However, the "Ville de Bordeaux" is indeed a specialist design (huge capacity and shallow draught) -
60 Astuteman: Specialist because it's shallow draught, eh? I was referring to "specialisations" that actually have a cost impact. Way the most "specialist" items o
61 Gemuser: God! Whatever could "force" you to do that! The very phase "interfacing software" for software gives me the horrors! Interfacing software for hardwar
62 NAV20: That's probably the difference between us, Astuteman - my professional background leads me to think more in terms of investment value rather than jus
63 Astuteman: FWIW it did us too - hence the "obsessive" oversight. These were completely different CAD systems, never mind versions. Unfortunately, Rolls-Royce Po
64 WingedMigrator: Power-on took place around 21 April, according to Flight International http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...up-first-wave-2-a380-aircraft.html That
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